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  1. mmm208's Avatar
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       #1  
    The treo foleo is what is going to bring palm down. They should cancel production asap. They are just going to tie up money in inverntory on this one. who in here agrees with me. They should be focusing on what they do best . Incremental upgrades on old technology.LOL!

    In all seriousness, Palm should really scratch this project. Im a sucker for all gadgets(both needed and un-needed) and have no desire to even test this thing.

    Should we vote on this in a poll?
    Last edited by ronbo2000; 08/16/2007 at 10:57 AM. Reason: merge two posts
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  2. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #2  
    There's a stickied poll up at the top already.

    And not selling it would be a pretty bad move. This has a chance of taking off. And if not, at least by selling it, they can recover a lot of the costs. Not selling it would just be a complete loss.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

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  3. cyber's Avatar
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    #3  
    how right you are.

    even treos are nothing really new since years. cosmetic improvements, no major overhauls.

    just can point out how happy i am to have moved away from the treo over a year ago. have multitasking now, stability, simultaneous gprs-connections ...

    still scratching my head who would buy a fooleo.
  4. #4  
    Only a fool. At one time, palm was top of the game, but now they are in a coma.

    Palm should have a new message flash across the screen for their home page - " nothing to see here, folks."

    They are an tired old company resting on tired old ideas, doing as little as possible to stay in business.
  5. #5  
    I think they can make a comeback.

    They are in the unique position of being one of the few companies in the world who have the potential to seemlessly integrate hardware and software (Linux/POS II), along with a simple, yet powerful, user-interface and web/media services, to provide a pleasant and productive user experience. Who else in the world, besides Apple, can do that? HTC is a hardware shop only. Microsoft codes software only (vis-a-vis cell phones), Symbian makes software only, Nokia and Motorola make hardware only. RIM can do it, and they have a killer-app, push email, but their domination of that enterprise end is not assured. Further, the barriers to entry into what RIM provides is low. Microsoft, possibly Google, will be knocking on that door.

    No, there's a reason Palm is based in Silicon Valley, and not Taipei, Helsinki or Ontario. They were innovators, and although have experienced a tough spot (being forced to down-engineer and drop features, technology and capabilities by the carriers), have the potential to once again be the dreamweavers to a whole new generation. I may not see the utility in a Folio-type device, but Palm is obviously trying to reinvent, and reinspire, themselves. Apple did the same a decade ago, and they're hitting on all cylinders now.

    I'm betting on Palm to pull some rabbits out of their hat. Now that Bono owns 25%, and the Apple iPod designer has joined the production team, and with Elevation's mandate to exploit and market Palm's intellectual property into media, entertainment and popular culture, this is Palm's axis age.

    A lot of other companies are throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks. I think Palm is patiently designing and waiting to pull the trigger on something head and shoulders above the market. HTC orders are down. Microsoft is dictating terms to them. HTC have no other OS to put on their hardware if Microsoft plays hardball. The tables could turn in a blink of the eye....
    Last edited by cinealta; 08/16/2007 at 01:24 AM.
  6. #6  
    No they shouldn't. I want one. And I suspect there are others who do. There will be a niche market for this product initially but who knows? More might catch on that they really aren't using their heavy slow to boot laptops for little more than surfing and checking emails anyway!
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  7. #7  
    The Foleo isn't going to bring palm down. It will be a moderate success or it will go the way of the lifedrive.

    They claim the Foleo is the first device in a new category. I wouldn't be surprised if we wouldn't see Foleo 2.0 by next this time.

    However, the bottom line is that palm makes all around good pocket pc phones.
    If that were false we wouldn't be here arm chair quarterbacking their decisions.
    JasonRM79

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  8. tirk's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by palmdoc2005 View Post
    No they shouldn't.
    Indeed they shouldn't, but not because it will be a successful product, rather because of the negative effect of such a cancellation now, before actual launch, and because of the benefits of using it as a testbed for a future Treo OS.

    I want one. And I suspect there are others who do. There will be a niche market for this product initially...
    A very, very small niche, considering most people got to be Palm users because they saw the real benefits of convergence! And given the security limitations of the Foleo compared to a standard laptop or even a Treo, I wonder if many businesses will allow them anyway.

    ...but who knows? More might catch on that they really aren't using their heavy slow to boot laptops for little more than surfing and checking emails anyway!
    You can do web & email on your Treo anyway, and most laptops really don't take more than a few seconds to come out of standby (about as long as it will take to sync your Foleo with your Treo??) and the only heavy laptops are the ones that are cheaper than the Foleo anyway these days.

    And some of us need to do more than that anyway!
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    HTC orders are down. Microsoft is dictating terms to them. HTC have no other OS to put on their hardware if Microsoft plays hardball. The tables could turn in a blink of the eye....
    Actually after being down for a few quarters due to a change in business they are already up year on year and quarter on quarter. Why would MS 'play hardball' with their main embedded partner? Your post seems to be mostly a lot of slogans.

    Surur
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    HTC orders are down.
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Actually after being down for a few quarters due to a change in business they are already up year on year and quarter on quarter.
    These numbers support what both of you say:

    H1: up 0.92% year-on-year
    Q2: up 3.34% year-on-year
    June: down 2.81% year-on-year

    http://www.emsnow.com/npps/story.cfm?id=28089&pg=story

    But isn't the real conclusion here that year-on-year sales are pretty flat?
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    These numbers support what both of you say:

    H1: up 0.92% year-on-year
    Q2: up 3.34% year-on-year
    June: down 2.81% year-on-year

    http://www.emsnow.com/npps/story.cfm?id=28089&pg=story

    But isn't the real conclusion here that year-on-year sales are pretty flat?
    Only if you ignore what happened inbetween, like HTC losing ODM orders (from Palm, for example) because it wants to built its own brand. Apparently they are navigating this strategy quite successfully, and after a year of reduced sales they are back where they started, plus a healthy brand, meaning they get to keep more of the value of the device.

    Surur
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    But isn't the real conclusion here that year-on-year sales are pretty flat?
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Only if you ignore what happened inbetween
    It wouldn't be a year-on-on year comparison if you didn't

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Apparently they are navigating this strategy quite successfully, and after a year of reduced sales they are back where they started, plus a healthy brand, meaning they get to keep more of the value of the device.
    If you have month-by-month or quarter-by-quarter numbers it would be good if you could post them. That said, I suspect it's far too early to draw any real conclusions about how successful the new strategy will be. I'd also guess that in the end the devices themselves rather than whether they're HTC branded or carrier branded will be the most telling factor. In the interviews that accompanied the latest set of figures HTC reiterated that they're now targeting the the consumer market:

    "In the past our phones have aimed at the enterprise corporate market, but now we are targeting the consumer segment,"
    http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...P2859820070727

    Peter Chou had said previously that the Touch was their first consumer-oriented device. Given that it was only released at the start of June, I guess it's hard to judge how it (and the consumer-oriented strategy it represents) are doing. Any news on early sales?
  13. TxDot's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by mmm208 View Post
    The treo Foleo is what is going to bring palm down. They should cancel production asap. They are just going to tie up money in inverntory on this one. who in here agrees with me. They should be focusing on what they do best . Incremental upgrades on old technology.LOL!


    In all seriousness, Palm should really scratch this project. Im a sucker for all gadgets(both needed and un-needed) and have no desire to even test this thing.

    Should we vote on this in a poll?
    I couldn't disagree more. The Foleo may not be a raging success (but maybe it will) and it certainly won't "bring Palm down".
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  14. #14  
    What type of other programs can be run on Linux? Can Windows programs be used as well?

    I will probably buy one of these as soon as it comes out to use as an email/PIM/web appliance if nothing else. The battery life and instant on is very attractive. Also with Logmein enabled it gets even better for trips where I dont need windows.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Why would MS 'play hardball' with their main embedded partner?
    Symbian OS dominates the world in cell phone market share. WM & Palm are not even close. HTC's tight symbiotic relationship with Microsoft makes it difficult for them to develop, manufacture and market phones using Symbian, Linux or other OS's, now or in the future. Undoubtedly, MS demands that HTC not venture into certain niches (ie, non-compete agreement), even though it would bolster HTC's worldwide market share.
    Last edited by cinealta; 08/16/2007 at 09:17 AM.
  16. #16  
    If you have month-by-month or quarter-by-quarter numbers it would be good if you could post them.
    Jun 2005 5229
    Jul 5250
    Aug 5204
    Sept 6109
    Oct 8581
    Nov 10443
    Dec 8507
    Jan 7118
    Feb 7817
    Ma 9007
    Apr 7596
    May 8336
    Jun 10600
    Jul 2006 8893
    Aug 8577
    Sept 8887
    Oct 10713
    Nov 10956
    Dec 8111
    Jan 7901
    Feb 6599
    Ma 9100
    Apr 9092
    May 7992
    Jun 2007 9777

    Their own-brand efforts came to light around September 2006, and one can see the effect of this soon afterward, with sales dropping into 2005 levels for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    Peter Chou had said previously that the Touch was their first consumer-oriented device. Given that it was only released at the start of June, I guess it's hard to judge how it (and the consumer-oriented strategy it represents) are doing. Any news on early sales?
    The Touch is selling pretty well. "sources" say:

    Shipments of HTC's first touch screen smartphone, the HTC Touch, are expected to reach one million units by the end of this year, making the phone the most popular own-brand model ever for the company, the sources estimated."
    http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070814PD206.html

    The Touch is set to be the start of a whole family of devices, e.g. the HTC Nike.

    http://crunchgear.com/wp-content/upl...nike-touch.jpg

    Surur
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by cinealta View Post
    Symbian OS dominates the world in cell phone market share. WM & Palm are not even close. HTC's tight symbiotic relationship with Microsoft makes it difficult for them to develop, manufacture and market phones using Symbian, Linux or other OS's, now or in the future. Undoubtedly, MS demands that HTC not venture into certain niches (ie, non-compete agreement), even though it would bolster HTC's worldwide market share.
    HTC has publicly maintained they are independent, and can chose to use any OS they want to. The have even been associated with the Google Linux phone.

    Symbian licensees are:

    Arima
    BenQ
    Fujitsu Limited
    Panasonic
    Lenovo
    LG Electronics
    Mitsubishi Electric Corp
    Motorola
    Nokia
    Samsung
    Sharp
    Siemens
    Sony Ericsson
    http://www.symbian.com/about/overvie...licensees.html

    Canalys says in Q4 2006 of 22 smart mobile devices Nokia sold 11 million, RIM sold near 2 million, Moto 1.5 million (90% linux-based), Palm 1.2 million and Sony Erricson 1.1 million, with 5 million "others".
    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2007/r2007024.htm

    Symbian says 14.6 million Symbian licenses were sold in Q4 2006. This means Nokia sold 75% of all Symbian devices, and the next high profile device symbian device makes, Sony Erricson only sold 8%.
    http://www.symbian.com/news/pr/2007/pr20079052.html

    As you can see, just because Nokia is wildly successful does not mean running the Symbian OS is a magic formula for device sale success. Its also very likely a large portion of those 5 million other devices were made by HTC. HTC owes its success to the Windows Mobile market, and would be mad to jump from being a big fish in a small market to being a minnow directly up against Nokia.

    Surur
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Jun 2005 5229
    Jul 5250
    Aug 5204
    Sept 6109
    Oct 8581
    Nov 10443
    Dec 8507
    Jan 7118
    Feb 7817
    Ma 9007
    Apr 7596
    May 8336
    Jun 10600
    Jul 2006 8893
    Aug 8577
    Sept 8887
    Oct 10713
    Nov 10956
    Dec 8111
    Jan 7901
    Feb 6599
    Ma 9100
    Apr 9092
    May 7992
    Jun 2007 9777
    Thanks for posting those.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Their own-brand efforts came to light around September 2006, and one can see the effect of this soon afterward, with sales dropping into 2005 levels for a while.
    To be honest, apart perhaps from a pretty bad February I don't really see that in the figures you posted. Here are the year-on-year changes for each month:

    2006
    Jun +102%
    Jul +69%
    Aug +65%
    Sept +45%
    Oct +25%
    Nov +4.9%
    Dec -4.7%

    2007
    Jan +11%
    Feb -16%
    Ma +1.0%
    Apr +20%
    May -4.1%
    Jun -7.8%

    The pattern seems to me to be strong but declining growth until October 2006, then pretty flat (excepting the variations you'd expect comparing individual months).
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The Touch is selling pretty well. "sources" say:
    Digitimes does seem to have its finger on the pulse occasionally and a million devices in a little over 6 months would be pretty good. That would probably make it about 25% of all of their devices sold. I guess the big questions are the extent to which it's really broken into the consumer market and the extent to which it's just replacing existing 'corporate market' devices.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    As you can see, just because Nokia is wildly successful does not mean running the Symbian OS is a magic formula for device sale success. Its also very likely a large portion of those 5 million other devices were made by HTC. HTC owes its success to the Windows Mobile market, and would be mad to jump from being a big fish in a small market to being a minnow directly up against Nokia.
    I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but I think cinealta was suggesting an approach of WM plus another OS. Numbers for Sony Ericsson are pretty instructive:

    Nokia: Q4 2005 54%, Q4 2006 50%
    RIM: Q4 2005 7%, Q4 2006 8%
    Motorola: Q4 2005 5%, Q4 2006 7%
    Palm Q4 2005 9%, Q4 2006 5%
    Sony Ericsson: Q4 2005 0.6%, Q4 2006 5%
    Others: Q4 2005 24%, Q4 2006 24%

    http://www.canalys.com/pr/2007/r2007024.htm

    A small fish but growing at a pace. 800% ain't bad!
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