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  1.    #1  
    What do you think the chances of being able to run a different distribution of linux on the Foleo, so we can have real apps, and a real browser?

    I wuld think this would make this the device I would want. If not I'd put the extra bucks into a HTC SHift or the new Fujitsu UMPC, or even the Asus deal.
  2. #2  
    Real apps and a real web browser? Define real. As far as I can tell, any application and web browser is real. If you are talking about a wider selection of applications, then that is something different (and should not be classified as "real," which would imply that the default is "unreal").

    Sorry (not to flame), I have a pet peeve of people defining an application or feature (or lack there of) that they do not like/approve of as unreal.

    Linux is Linux, so I am sure that apps that you need will come up. As for another distro, I dunno.
    Last edited by dkirker; 08/14/2007 at 12:48 PM.
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  3. braj's Avatar
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    #3  
    I just want a lower price, or greatly enhanced battery life. I think the linux distro on the Foleo would be more optimized for the hardware so I don't know what the benefit of installing another would be. Best hope would be for someone to port another browser and more apps. If only Opera had tabbed browsing, I think that alone would be a big improvement for most people.
  4. ksom's Avatar
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    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by braj View Post
    I just want a lower price, or greatly enhanced battery life. I think the linux distro on the Foleo would be more optimized for the hardware so I don't know what the benefit of installing another would be. Best hope would be for someone to port another browser and more apps. If only Opera had tabbed browsing, I think that alone would be a big improvement for most people.
    Price is the only problem I have with Foleo, but the more I look at it, the less an issue the price becomes.

    I think someone just can't get over the idea that Foleo is not a laptop. If somone don't care about instance on, one button access to key apps, tight integration with a cell phone (not after a bunch of driver installations), long battery life (standby and actual usage), and less heat on your lap, then he may as well just get a cheap laptop or UMPC. For me, all of these features worth some money to buy. People tends to over look the value of usability, but get more focused on MBs, GBs, MHz, GHz, etc.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclark2112 View Post
    What do you think the chances of being able to run a different distribution of linux on the Foleo, so we can have real apps, and a real browser?

    I wuld think this would make this the device I would want. If not I'd put the extra bucks into a HTC SHift or the new Fujitsu UMPC, or even the Asus deal.

    The Foleo is running a real distribution of Linux. It has a mainstream Kernel, standard libraries, some of the utilties you'd see on other linux distros, and a GUI.

    It sounds to me like you are wanting an X-windows interface of some sort with typical PC capabilities. If this is the case, then perhaps you would be more happy with a good Sony Vaio notebook or Dell Latitude.

    I would avoid products like the Asus machine being discussed. While I don't own one, it appears to me that the quality is not that great. I've tried MANY laptop models over the past 15 years and can say that you really do get what you pay for. Buy a Sony Vaio and you are going to have a machine that lasts for many years even under hard use. Buy a cheap Compac, or the like, and you will be shopping for a new machine before you know it.

    The Foleo looks to be a very solid piece of hardware. This is definately worth paying a few extra bucks.

    TKOS
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by ksom View Post
    Price is the only problem I have with Foleo, but the more I look at it, the less an issue the price becomes.

    I think someone just can't get over the idea that Foleo is not a laptop. If somone don't care about instance on, one button access to key apps, tight integration with a cell phone (not after a bunch of driver installations), long battery life (standby and actual usage), and less heat on your lap, then he may as well just get a cheap laptop or UMPC. For me, all of these features worth some money to buy. People tends to over look the value of usability, but get more focused on MBs, GBs, MHz, GHz, etc.
    Well stated!!

    TKOS
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by mclark2112 View Post
    What do you think the chances of being able to run a different distribution of linux on the Foleo, so we can have real apps, and a real browser?
    I think it would be fairly easy for someone familiar with embedded Linux to port a small Debian distribution to the device. They'd probably need to keep the Palm-customized kernel and some of the support systems (our power management code, for example), but they could put an X environment on it and run desktop apps with some hacking.

    However, I don't think it would run very well. We did a lot of work analyzing the desktop systems and trying to pick the right programs to work well on the device's hardware. At the time we were making our engineering decisions, things like X and Firefox were too heavyweight for us, so we went a different way; we wanted the experience on the device to be much closer to a fast PDA than a slow desktop. I think we're getting close, and I think we'll do better in the future based on what we've learned implementing this version.
  8. TxDot's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by bcombee View Post
    ...I think we're getting close, and I think we'll do better in the future based on what we've learned implementing this version.
    WHAT??? It won't be perfect right out of the box? Why can't Palm do ANYTHING right??? Every other manufacturer gets it right the very first time THEY release something new. For example there's the... and the ... and the ... ok so I can't think of a good example right now but STILL, Palm should get it PERFECT!!! There shouldn't need to be next version.

    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  9. vta
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    #9  
    Not evev sure if the spelling is correct but could Ubuntu be run on a Foleo then? I don't know much about Linux but from peoples replies to the topic it sounds like this would be a yes?
  10. #10  
    It's going to be hard. Right now Firefox (minimo) is still very buggy on the Nokia n800, and the Ubuntu/n800 project hasn't gotten off the ground yet. We are talking about a device that is getting significant more grassroot support than the Foleo.
  11.    #11  
    Thanks, bcombee, I think I understand the thinking a bit more about why things were done the way they were done.

    What I would like to see is a more desktop oriented look and feel. If the Foleo could run Open Office and Firefox out of the box, I would buy it in a heartbeat. As it stands, I will wait to see how it develops. A fully functioning tabbed browser is must for me to consider this machine, the Office less so, but would definitely seal the deal.

    I also wish that Palm would spend some time on the UI of their devices, a few tweaks here and there and the products could really go through the roof. Look at the iPhone, nothing but UI. Well that and marketing. My 680 can do everything the iPhone can and more, just doesn't look as pretty. I feel the Foleo could have been a chance for Palm to really blow the world away, but a weak UI will kill the product.

    I asked about running other Linux apps on the device with the thought of being able to run x windows on it, cause it would "feel" better. Does the foleo have a desktop? Or is it always showing an application? I think the answer is the latter, and I wish it had a desktop, or application page where a nifty UI could be integrated. POS missed the UI boat (Still useable, I love it, but ugly), but the Foleo still has time to get it right.

    The hardware looks good, great even (although I thought the touchpad was standard these days, hate the eraser thing), just get a slick UI and you have a real consumer winner.
  12. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #12  
    Yes, there is no desktop. I suppose a third party could make a desktop application though, that was just always on, and the app that showed when the others were shut down.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
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  13. braj's Avatar
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    #13  
    Wouldn't the file manager essentially be the equivalent of a desktop for the Foleo? What benefit would a traditional desktop give you on a device that only can display one app at a time?
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by braj View Post
    Wouldn't the file manager essentially be the equivalent of a desktop for the Foleo? What benefit would a traditional desktop give you on a device that only can display one app at a time?

    It's all about user experience, and what the consumers have been trained to expect from a computing device. In a device this utilitarian, UI is the make or break feature. You can do things the way Palm is doing them, and the device will work, it will even perform well. But, if you do the same apps with a splashy UI, like Apple just did, you have a hit on your hands.

    The Desktop/Launcher App is the easiest way to implement a splashy UI. It is the hub of all the Apps. If that is "cool," the whole device is cool. If you carry a little of the flashiness into the apps, then they are cool too.

    As it stands now, I think Palm has a dud on their hands. With some tweaks, it could be a stud, but I don't think they are capable, unfortunately.
  15. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #15  
    One of the main features this thing has going for it is instant on. I'm sure making a really splashy desktop would take away from that, and it necessary for it to work. The Apps button plus shortcuts is all you really need.

    I'd sacrifice some speed for tabbed browsing if I had to, but I now realize there is no need for a desktop, and I can gladly do without it.

    You're probably right though that a splashy desktop would probably make it more marketable towards the general public. But since they don't seem to be targeting that market with this first generation Foleo (or at least at this moment) it matters even less.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  16. TxDot's Avatar
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    #16  
    I agree that it's all about "flash". Not saying it should be but the reality is that people like nice looking things whether it's their car or their desktop. e.g. DialByPhoto vs. TAKphONE. The first has absolutely beautiful graphics but limited functionality. The second is **** ugly but has tons of functionality. Many people use DBP because it is so nice looking in spite of it's shortcomings. But people that require functionality use TAKphONE in spite of it's ugliness. Palm needs to hire the folks at Gx5 to do the graphics for the Foleo. They can rival iPhone any day. Of course if hi-res graphics kill battery life, that's a different story.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingOfSting View Post
    I would avoid products like the Asus machine being discussed. While I don't own one, it appears to me that the quality is not that great. I've tried MANY laptop models over the past 15 years and can say that you really do get what you pay for. Buy a Sony Vaio and you are going to have a machine that lasts for many years even under hard use. Buy a cheap Compac, or the like, and you will be shopping for a new machine before you know it.

    My Compaq is still going strong. HP made a big difference on Compaq. My Toshiba has better hardware, but the Compaq has never let me down in terms of performance. It just has outdated specs now.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerorne View Post
    One of the main features this thing has going for it is instant on. I'm sure making a really splashy desktop would take away from that, and it necessary for it to work. The Apps button plus shortcuts is all you really need..
    From what I've gathered from reading about the Foleo is that Instant-ON is mostly achieved by keeping the apps running in the background. If this truely is the case, then accessing apps on the Foleo is much like clicking ALT-TAB on a windows machine with multiple, minimized, apps open. As one clicks the ALT-TAB key sequence, apps pop into focus instantly, thus the instant-on. Having a full blown desktop would most certainy take away from this instant on design approach.

    I think another way to look at this is by comparing a Palm OS Treo to a Windows Mobile Treo. The Windows Mobile Treo has a desktop GUI, while the Palm OS Treo does not. However, the Palm OS Treo is much easier and nicer to use than the Windows Mobile Treo.

    TKOS
    Last edited by TheKingOfSting; 08/16/2007 at 01:49 PM.
  19. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #19  
    Reading my quote, I realize that I typed "it" instead of "is not". That sometimes happens to me when I reword a scentence in my head in the middle of typing.

    And I may not have a full undersanding as to what a full desktop entails. If there is a huge difference, I may just be thinking about a default application launcher that would give it a little bit more flash. Not necessary, but it may attract more people.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic

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