View Poll Results: How much would you be willing to pay for a Foleo?

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  • $199

    33 27.97%
  • $299

    34 28.81%
  • $399

    34 28.81%
  • $499

    11 9.32%
  • $599

    6 5.08%
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Results 161 to 180 of 191
  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    HUH? Two sentences that make no sense.
    Being someplace does not translate into something being easy.
    Foleo is based on Linux, so where exactly would they go to speak to developers besides Linux World?
    The two sentences were not meant to entail each other, that's how you read it.

    The fact is, Palm is courting developers, giving out Foleos, released the SDK and API instructions and are doing their best to make it easier for developers to design for.

    Whether it's "hard" for you is irrelevant; no one cares if you decide to program for it or not. Why not let the community speak for itself and check back in 6 months to see if anyone is using it?
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi
    I knew the fanboys would come out with this one.
    Oh yeah you to.

    I love how since we disagree with you, you need to label us with the pejorative "fan boy". Nice form of argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    You are showing your ignorance regarding WM. WM is a GUI layer built on top of Windows CE. Windows CE is being/has been renamed Windows Embedded. Your familiarity with WM is obviously only in the consumer phone space, and you are completely ignoring all of those non-phone PPC devices that were so popular until they were replaced with convergent devices.
    I know all about WinCE, "Yamazaki", etc. I also know that Win CE and WM are not used interchangeably and that WM is more than just a GUI for WinCE.

    While they are based on the same kernel/architecture, WM uses some components of WinCE and additional ones not a part of it as well.

    I'm not sure what Win CE devices that are no longer relevant by your own assertion has to do with the Foleo. Had MS or anyone else released a WinCE device like the Foleo your argument would have some merit. Instead it appears you are just showboating your Wiki knowledge of programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    And BTW, WM already has more features than Foleo, right here, right now.
    Then make the hardware for it and STHU already! Sell me a WinCE device that does what the Foleo does, don't run your mouth off about the potential of WinCE, no one cares. Where? Where is this device that you speak of?
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    You haven't been reading this thread, or my post to carefully then. ASUS Eee is a cheap Linux based laptop. By solid state I am assuming you mean no platter based HD. The ASUS Eee uses Flash RAM.
    Great. Go buy me an Asus Eee right now and tell me how well it works. Oh, that's right. It's not out yet...so it's not out on the market.

    Get back to me when the 10" version is out as you can keep the 7" and the cheap manufacturing.

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  2. #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    I knew the fanboys would come out with this one.
    I am more a fan of Linux than of the Foleo. I like the Foleo because of how cheap and simple that it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Mac OS is an implementation of Linux
    No, it isn't. Mac OS X is built on the Darwin Kernel, which is a Unix/FreeBSD project developed by Apple dating back to 1990 or so. Like Linux, it adhears to POSIX specifications, but is not Linux.

    The Foleo, OTOH, IS running Linux. There are hundreds of applications that could be recompiled in a matter of hours to run on the Foleo, or any flavor of Linux out there for that matter. For example, I plan on setting up and implementation of Samba to run on my Foleo when I get it. I can assure that I won't need to touch the Samba code to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    While the core kernel on the Foleo may be Linux, much of everything above, including the presentation layer, is brand new.
    Everything above the kernel IS mainstream Linux. Please point out ONE technology on the Foleo, that we've been told about, that isn't readily available in the GNU community?

    DirectFB, the presentation layer on the Foleo, in NOT brand new. You can find many examples here: www.directFB.org.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Let's say your developing an app for the Foleo, and you are having problems calling the APIs specific to the Foleo, where do you go?
    www.google.com and the Palm development community.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Why was it big news when IBM announced they would provide support for Linux? Because FREE does not mean GOOD. Free support is good for the hobbiest developer and for the professional community to share ideas, but there are times when the enterprise developer needs information from the source.
    The vast majority of the Linux developers out there are NOT hobbyists. Many work for large corporations who have made a commitment to supporting the GPL community. To name a few: Apache (the most used web server software in the world), Samba, BIND (the most used DNS server software in the world). Far from hobby projects...

    Here's the difference between support from companies who practice proprietary development vs companies who practice GPL based development: I can join, say, the Samba mailing list and ask core developers of Samba questions and they WILL answer me. This isn't getting information right from the source? Call Microsoft and see how far you get trying to get one of the Core Windows Vista developers on the phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    I always love to hear this "reconfigured" arguement; demonstrates either lack of experience or an attempt at spinning the truth.
    I am still waiting for you to tell me exactly what is so hard about developing for the Foleo. You state this repeatedly, yet can't say WHY it is so difficult.


    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    I never denied the Foleo is a good form factor, it's just running the wrong OS and costs to much.
    On the contrary. The Foleo is running the PERFECT OS for what it's meant for for.
    Last edited by TheKingOfSting; 08/17/2007 at 04:31 PM.
  3. #163  
    Thank you for a good strong reply, much appreciated and useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingOfSting View Post
    I am more a fan of Linux than of the Foleo. I like the Foleo because of how cheap and simple that it is.
    Agreed, still a little pricey though.

    No, it isn't. Mac OS X is built on the Darwin Kernel, which is a Unix/FreeBSD project developed by Apple dating back to 1990 or so. Like Linux, it adhears to POSIX specifications, but is not Linux.
    I already conceeded this, point taken.

    The Foleo, OTOH, IS running Linux. There are hundreds of applications that could be recompiled in a matter of hours to run on the Foleo, or any flavor of Linux out there for that matter. For example, I plan on setting up and implementation of Samba to run on my Foleo when I get it. I can assure that I won't need to touch the Samba code to do this.
    This is where I would disagree, but in cost of implementation, not the implementation itself. Although I freely acknowledge this is probably related to the proprietary vs GPL development comments you mention later on.

    A matter of hours in development time for a commercial app equates to days of QA, and months when adding in managment and deployment costs.

    DirectFB, the presentation layer on the Foleo, in NOT brand new. You can find many examples here: www.directFB.org.
    So apps written for this presentation layer should work on the Foleo. What about apps written for other presentation layers?


    The vast majority of the Linux developers out there are NOT hobbyists. Many work for large corporations who have made a commitment to support the GPL community.
    ...
    Far from hobby projects
    ...
    Point taken.

    To name a few: Apache (the most used web server software in the world), Samba, BIND (the most used DNS server software in the world).
    ....
    Here's the difference between support from companies who practice proprietary development vs companies who practice GPL based development: I can join, say, the Samba mailing list and ask core developers of Samba questions and they WILL answer me. This isn't getting information right from the source? Call Microsoft and see how far you get trying to get one of the Core Windows Vista developers on the phone.
    I can't comment on the proprietary vs GPL statement. At least your not saying one is better than the other, nor will I.

    I am still waiting for you to tell me exactly what is so hard about developing for the Foleo. You state this repeatedly, yet can't say WHY it is so difficult.
    I never said it was hard, I did say it was not as easy as others were stating.

    But even a few hours of development effort easily equates to a few months of total effort once you factor in realistic development life cycle processes (Analysis, Documentation, QA, UAT, deployment testing, etc.). A few months of time and effort would qualify as "hard" in non-developer terms.

    On the contrary. The Foleo is running the PERFECT OS for what it's meant for for.
    You say Yamaha, I say Suzuki. Let's just hope a Kawasaki doesn't come along.

    Thanks again for the comments.
    Last edited by dgoodisi; 08/17/2007 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Removed irrelevancies, fixed facter spelling.
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    I'm not sure what Win CE devices that are no longer relevant by your own assertion has to do with the Foleo. Had MS or anyone else released a WinCE device like the Foleo your argument would have some merit. Instead it appears you are just showboating your Wiki knowledge of programming.
    No WM device has the sync with phone functionality of the Foleo; but the library to support this already exists so it is possible.

    HTC Advantage is available right now. But it's smaller, less easier to use, includes full cellphone support.

    HTC Shift, target availability similar to Foleo. PPC mode is most like Foleo. Vista mode means $1500 price tag.

    HP iPaq hx2495. Mentioned here only as a WM5 device available now that is not a cell phone.

    So you are correct in that NO CURRENT WM device matches up exactly to the Foleo. But given that the Advantage is out, the Shift is releasing soon, just how much time does Palm have before a direct competitor is available?

    Great. Go buy me an Asus Eee right now and tell me how well it works. Oh, that's right. It's not out yet...so it's not out on the market.

    Get back to me when the 10" version is out as you can keep the 7" and the cheap manufacturing.
    You can pick up an Asus Eee at the same place you can get the Foleo, they are stocked right next to each other. Oh and you can get 3 Eee laptops for the price of one Foleo mobile companion.

    How constructive to complain about an alternative device not being out on the market when the Foleo is not available either.
  5. #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post

    So you are correct in that NO CURRENT WM device matches up exactly to the Foleo. But given that the Advantage is out, the Shift is releasing soon, just how much time does Palm have before a direct competitor is available?


    You can pick up an Asus Eee at the same place you can get the Foleo, they are stocked right next to each other. Oh and you can get 3 Eee laptops for the price of one Foleo mobile companion.
    My issue is this: I don't want another WM or MS laptop, UMPC, mini-laptop etc.

    What I like about the Foleo is (a) simplicity (b) speed (c) exceptional battery life (d) full syncing with my WM device (e) elegance

    MS just does not do it for me as a mobile OS. It's fine for my Smartphone but I don't like recreating the desktop experience on a mobile device. The burden is on MS and OEMs to woo me with a Foleo competitor. The Shift, while interesting, is not it. If they come out with something similar and/or better then I'll take a look.

    The Asus Eee, as far as I know, will not sync up with my device in any form: no modem, no email...nothing. So how does that help me?

    (plus there's the 7" screen which is too small, 10" is my threshold and the no doubt cheaper construction)

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  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    This is where I would disagree, but in cost of implementation, not the implementation itself. Although I freely acknowledge this is probably related to the proprietary vs GPL development comments you mention later on.
    A matter of hours in development time for a commercial app equates to days of QA, and months when adding in managment and deployment costs.
    Apps designed to run as services/daemons or with UIs provided by the terminal will likely require very little, if any, modification. Basically one would just need GCC, any necessary libraries, and the app source. Throw it all on the Foleo and try compiling. If the compile errors out, start asking questions on the appropriate mailing list.

    Emacs, for example, is a very popular *nix utility that I'm sure could be compiled to run on Foleo with very little or no modification. Perhaps there is already a binary available.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    So apps written for this presentation layer should work on the Foleo. What about apps written for other presentation layers?
    Given the existance of Xdirectfb (http://www.directfb.org/index.php?pa...ts%2FXDirectFB), it should theoretically be possible to port apps written for X11 to run on Foleo without needing to completely overhall the app.. As you've pointed out, though, there will very likely be some mod needed to comply with the Foleo's unique GUI configuration. Further, I'm sure that hardware may be an issue with apps written for X given that they were very likely designed with mainstream PC type hardware in mind.

    It will be interesting to see what get's ported to the Foleo. An IM client, for example, would be a nice addition.


    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Thanks again for the comments.
    Thank you for yours!

    TKOS
  7. vrf
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    #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    You can pick up an Asus Eee at the same place you can get the Foleo, they are stocked right next to each other. Oh and you can get 3 Eee laptops for the price of one Foleo mobile companion.
    The comparisons to the Asus Eee are really inaccurate, I believe. Like saying you can buy a few Big Macs for the price of... well, you get the picture. A better meal.

    I've tried the Eee (I live in Taipei) and I can tell you that the build quality and keyboard quality just make it feel like a cheap toy. For a light-weight, mobile machine, it seems like it would break quickly.

    I've not held a Foleo, but the previews so far say it has a very nice keyboard and solid design. In a mobile machine, that's certainly worth a couple hundred dollars.

    (But, admittedly, I think a 399 price point for the Foleo is more realistic.)
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by vrf View Post
    .
    I've tried the Eee (I live in Taipei) and I can tell you that the build quality and keyboard quality just make it feel like a cheap toy. For a light-weight, mobile machine, it seems like it would break quickly.

    I've not held a Foleo, but the previews so far say it has a very nice keyboard and solid design. In a mobile machine, that's certainly worth a couple hundred dollars.
    Very well put. I feel the same way.

    I own an engineering company and we've been using notebooks for our crews in the field for going on 20 years. I've tried more laptop brands that I can remember. You really do get what you pay for. Buy a Sony Vaio for $2000 and you are going to have a notebook that lasts for 5+ years even under very have use. Buy a cheaper Compac, HP, Toshiba, or the like for $1000 or less and it will start falling apart in a year... Just because it has the CPU and the memory doesn't mean anything when it comes to Notebooks/Mobile computers. You need both the computing power and quality construction if you desire a device that will last.

    These guys claiming they can buy a quality notebook for what the Foleo is going for are so full of crap it isn't even funny. Yes, you can buy something for this price, but it isn't something that will last under real use.

    If the Foleo really is the quality that people are reporting, then $600 is a great deal.

    TKOS
    Last edited by TheKingOfSting; 08/17/2007 at 11:38 PM.
  9. #169  
    Nice time to bring this up again

    ALl these have come up with their own price points:

    asus - $399 for the basic model, has no BT, 7"screen, 512 RAM, 4GB, camera, Linux

    cloudbooks - $399, 800x600 screen, 7inch display, 30GB HD, ugly (IMHO), 512 RAM

    mini-note's - $549 for the basic model, no BT but great build. 8.9 screen. full keyboard. vista home. About $750 for the full model with bluetooth.

    Macbook Air - you know the specs and the price tag of this one

    how much do you think is the Foleo still worth?

    It has:
    -full keyboard
    -full 10 inch screen
    -wifi
    -bluetooth
    -still the best build among all that has come out.
    -5hr battery life
    -instant on
    -docs2go
    -SD and CF card slot (expandable)

    But it doesnt have:
    -Windows
    -camera
    -bigger processor
    -just 128MB RAM

    I would say i would still buy this for $399 without thought. Being the fanboy that i am, i would still probably buy it for the advertised $499.
  10. #170  
    It is hard to base on the hardware to determine the price unless both products are identicial. If base on the hardware, nobody are willing to pay the premium to buy the ipod as the market has a lot of mp3 player. The software and its interface of the device are definitely the most important factors when consider to buy one. Asus is simply a sub-notebook. It is no different compare to other notebook except the price. Foleo was a highly customized device to enhance users experience and productivity.

    Also Palm was targeting the business executives, $499 is quiet reasonable IMHO. Please remember these business executives are not technicial enough to install or twists the OS or software. They don't mind paying more to save the troubles. Unfortunately, the so-called technicial guru judged the device.
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls96 View Post

    how much do you think is the Foleo still worth?
    I would not buy it with your money...

    Seems like palm was on the right track but failed to connect all the dots or see the complete vision... obviously, people wanted a device that palm almost launched.... if they had went linux and maybe went with some better specs... maybe, maybe, maybe... they did not.

    I'm about ready for an htc mogul... trade my treo on and never look back... lol
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    #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Seems like palm was on the right track but failed to connect all the dots or see the complete vision... obviously, people wanted a device that palm almost launched...
    Just because the Foleo looks a bit like the current rash of affordable sublaptops doesn't mean Palm were on the right track. Remember they saw the Foleo as an adjunct to the smartphone, not as a laptop replacement. The way people are actually using things like the Asus Eee is not like we were told the Foleo would be used.

    Foleo flopped not because the Eee was cheaper or better at the the things Foleo was designed to do, but because it was designed to do different things. They may look similar, but then again, so does a Nintendo DS!
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  13. #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Just because the Foleo looks a bit like the current rash of affordable sublaptops doesn't mean Palm were on the right track. Remember they saw the Foleo as an adjunct to the smartphone, not as a laptop replacement.

    This is something that most people missed...

    The Palm Pilot when originally created, was designed primarily to replace your organizer. But it turned out to be much more than that. It became a Handheld Computer capable of doing a lot more things that it was originally "marketed" for.

    Same with the Foleo... It was originally marketed as a "Smartphone companion" but they were actually trying to create what the Asus eeepc's and the others have become... a sub-notebook used primarily for web browsing and documents.
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    #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls96 View Post
    Same with the Foleo... It was originally marketed as a "Smartphone companion" but they were actually trying to create what the Asus eeepc's and the others have become... a sub-notebook used primarily for web browsing and documents.
    Nice rewriting of history there!

    Actually I half suspect they were studiously trying to keep Foleo a crippled adjunct to the smartphone, even after the buzz for the other new devices started.

    Either "can't have audio/video/decent applications one Foleo - people will stop buying Palms!" or "we never thought of that and the hardware we specified won't run it". Either way, "visionary" and "Foleo" can only go in the same sentence as the phrase "not very".
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  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by bulls96 View Post
    Same with the Foleo... It was originally marketed as a "Smartphone companion" but they were actually trying to create what the Asus eeepc's and the others have become... a sub-notebook used primarily for web browsing and documents.
    Other than that statement being completely fictional, it also points out Palm's seeming incompetence in the marketplace. In 4 years of dedicated development, Jeff Hawkins came up with the pathetically limited Foleo. In 9 months of development, Jonny Shih (ASUS CEO) took the Eee PC from a basic idea (an OLPC for grownups) to the marketplace. It seems Palm is simply out of ideas.
  16. #176  
    Bulls96, you forgot to mention probably the most interesting: RedFly (review)
    • no CPU (but has graphics processor)
    • not a full KB
    • $500
    • 8 inch screen (800 x 480)
    • 2lbs
    • WM only

    Plus not even an OS (!) as it uses your WM device to upscale.

    It's not bad, but $500 is steep for what is basically a bigger screen and KB for your phone (Foleo at least went further than that).

    Interestingly, still after all of this time since my post above, there is still nothing on the market that meets my needs. RedFly comes close but it is still less than what the Foelo was and yet costs the same.

    So I'll continue to wait for a Foleo 2 or something similar from someone else.

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  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ... there is still nothing on the market that meets my needs. RedFly comes close but it is still less than what the Foelo was and yet costs the same.

    So I'll continue to wait for a Foleo 2 or something similar from someone else.
    It's entirely possible you represent a market of 1.
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    It's entirely possible you represent a market of 1.
    Perhaps

    I do think I'm in the minority here as I do want to buck the trend a bit--I'm not really obsessive about multi-media/youtube/flash/watching movies, etc. on my laptop.

    Scratch that--I do love that stuff but for my desktop and my laptop. What I need is a device that gets long battery life and is geared solely towards writing and reading documents, including .pdfs, powerpoint, .doc and responding to emails.

    I wouldn't mind the "other stuff" if it didn't increase cost and weight and didn't decrease battery life.

    Basically I want minimalism for a work machine so I can focus on just doing work and by today's standards of mass-ADD, poor work habits and youtube obsession I am indeed in the minority.

    Make it fast, long battery life and give me the ability to work on it for hours (e.g. no tiny screens).

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  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    What I need is a device that gets long battery life and is geared solely towards writing and reading documents, including .pdfs, powerpoint, .doc and responding to emails.
    All good things to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Basically I want minimalism for a work machine so I can focus on just doing work and by today's standards of mass-ADD, poor work habits and youtube obsession I am indeed in the minority.
    Personally I don't need the machine to enforce my work habits. When it's time to work, I work. When there's time to play, I play. What I don't want is a mono-tasker that can only do one or the other.
  20. #180  
    hey the Celio Redfly just came down in price to $400. I have a feeling if the Foleo was released, it would have the same fate... it would have come down in price in a month's time, and i bet it would have sold more than this Celio thing.

    Are y'all's evaluation of the price for the Foleo still the same?

    Right now, i would buy it for $399. But at $299 i wouldn't even blink!
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