View Poll Results: How much would you be willing to pay for a Foleo?

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  • $199

    33 27.97%
  • $299

    34 28.81%
  • $399

    34 28.81%
  • $499

    11 9.32%
  • $599

    6 5.08%
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  1. #141  
    i might consider taking it for free. why should i pay for something that i definitely will not need for anything usefull. when i need a laptop, i require a powerful one. this foleo thing is a joke.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by jinx View Post
    i might consider taking it for free. why should i pay for something that i definitely will not need for anything usefull. when i need a laptop, i require a powerful one. this foleo thing is a joke.
    Define "powerful one"? It sounds like the foleo isn't something "you" would need. Thats understandable. That doesn't mean there isn't a market for it though.

    I am on fence about if I need a foleo, especially with devices like the htc shift out there.

    I think people need to just accept that this version of the foleo is not a device intended for the mass market. I think Palm has acknowledged this many times even.

    Either way I plan to reserve giving it "joke" status until it pans out less I wind up like the people who said a $300.00 mp3 player made by apple is a joke several years ago.
    JasonRM79

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  3. #143  
    How do they expect to make money then, if they don't market to as many people as possible? I still think marketing only to Treo owners in the beginning is a mistake. They should also have at least BB and WM support out of the box. They do claim any WM phone should work, but has that been tested to be sure?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  4. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #144  
    They probably should market it to as many people as possible, but not now. How are you going to market it to the general public in this state? There needs to be a good first impression, and right now it lacks tabbed browsing and flash video, two things that will be very important to the average person.

    Before they mass market it, it needs to be ready for that market, including having a nice variety of third party support (especially chatting programs and some kind of video player), or all those marketing dollars will go to waste. Money and effort they could have spent pushing it towards businesses that can use it right now.

    And I'm sure they wanted Blackberry support out of box as well, but I'm sure that's not completely in their control either. I doubt it's something they planned, and it was something that is a bit more out of their control with the time and resources at hand.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

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  5. #145  
    But that's exactly my point. Why're they releasing a half done or limited product?

    They claim they're selling this at Best Buy and the like in November. You can't sell a half done project there, not when the stores will most likely place this in the same aisles as the laptops, like they do now with Palm products.

    Hopefully by November, they'll have it ready for others besides Treo owners.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. Gerorne's Avatar
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    #146  
    Well... they don't have to spend a lot of money to sell thousands of units right now to businesses.

    And there are people like me who would buy it right now even without that support. I'll be taking it to all my classes, and it's not a lot, but it's some free marketing where people will get to handle it when (IF =P) I let them play with it. Handling it makes a big difference in how it's percieved.

    So why not sell it now?

    I'm sure November is another big goal they have for updates, and may in part be the reason that retail stores get it later.
    Vx --> M515 --> T|T3 --> T|T5
    --> Treo 650 --> Centro --> Dinc

    Smart Jones - a smartphone webcomic
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    They do claim any WM phone should work, but has that been tested to be sure?
    The file/database structure of a WM Treo is no different than any other WM device on the market, so the only limiting factor then would be the quality of the BT stack on that device, which is not a Palm Foleo issue but rather a specific device one. However, since the Palm BT stack is pretty much as poor as it gets, it can only get better for every other WM device out there!

    I'm with Gerorne on this one: I just want it to come out now. I'm actually not that interested in its level of completeness or who they are marketing to. The idea behind it is it's a growing platform--there is no "final" stage for it. It's best to get it in the hands of:

    (1) Developers: done
    (2) Early Adopters: very soon
    (3) Mass audience: sometime in the future

    The combo of (1) and (2) is what defines a device and a platform. The (3) group just reap the benefits of what was already done for them. Just like people buying a WM device today--if they want YouTube, it was done for them already by a small group of people--not MS, not YouTube and not any company.

    It's nice for one having a company giving you the basics with simplicity and elegance in mind but leaving the direct implications and functions of the device up to the people who use it, instead of dictating and limiting function.

    Palm is banking on the long-term vision of this device, not the next 4 months. In today's market, that's sometimes hard to grasp since we're not accustomed to long-term goals anymore. ALP faces the same situation as will POSII and WM "Photon" which will be a complete revamp of that mobile OS, probably breaking a lot of previous functionality.
    Last edited by Malatesta; 08/16/2007 at 03:04 PM.

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  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by jinx View Post
    i might consider taking it for free. why should i pay for something that i definitely will not need for anything usefull. when i need a laptop, i require a powerful one. this foleo thing is a joke.
    No offense, but this is a silly argument.

    It's like me posting on a Pickup Truck forum lamenting the fact that I don't need a V8 engine with a large cabin and a huge bed, but rather a small, compact car with excellent full efficiency and then concluding pickups are a "joke".

    In other words, if you are not the target market why complain that it does not fit your needs and condemn it?

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  9. #149  
    *applause*
    Well said Mal.
    My Treo: I think I'll keep her. All dressed up for prom and her date Foleo stood her up
  10. TxDot's Avatar
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    #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    No offense, but this is a silly argument.

    It's like me posting on a Pickup Truck forum lamenting the fact that I don't need a V8 engine with a large cabin and a huge bed, but rather a small, compact car with excellent full efficiency and then concluding pickups are a "joke".

    In other words, if you are not the target market why complain that it does not fit your needs and condemn it?
    Hear, hear!
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    ...I'm with Gerorne on this one: I just want it to come out now. I'm actually not that interested in its level of completeness or who they are marketing to. The idea behind it is it's a growing platform--there is no "final" stage for it. It's best to get it in the hands of:

    (1) Developers: done
    (2) Early Adopters: very soon
    (3) Mass audience: sometime in the future

    The combo of (1) and (2) is what defines a device and a platform. The (3) group just reap the benefits of what was already done for them.
    ...
    As a software developer I question whether the Foleo is a platform that can grow.

    When deciding which platform to develop for you need to consider the following.

    Development Tools - Currently lacking for the Foleo, but promised to come. Yes you can develop now for the Foleo, but not easily.

    Developer Support - The Foleo is a brand new platform with little support available.

    Target Devices - Just one. Not a very large potential market.

    Currently the fastest growing platform is the Pocket PC, running not on just one but multiple devices. Microsoft's development tools are second to none, and developer support is outstanding. There is a reason why it is estimated that development in terms of effort and cost for Java/Linux platforms is 5-10 times higher than for Microsoft platforms.

    So as a developer would you choose to develop for a platform with only a single device, or a platform with exponentially more devices; and using tools that make you more effecient and with more support?

    The HTC Shift and Advantage are only the first of a new wave of Foleo like PPC devices. The first PPC device in the Foleo form factor will make the Foleo obsolete.

    Oh, and I would not pay more than $300 for a Foleo type device, running PPC or other. A low-end Windows laptop starts at $500 and that ASUS EEE Linux device is around $200.
    Last edited by dgoodisi; 08/16/2007 at 10:13 PM.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    As a software developer I question whether the Foleo is a platform that can grow.

    When deciding which platform to develop for you need to consider the following.

    Development Tools - Currently lacking for the Foleo, but promised to come. Yes you can develop now for the Foleo, but not easily.
    What are you using for the basis of this statement? Palm has released a development platform for the Foleo. This tool is Wind River, therefore a development tool IS available. Futher, Foleo is running a mainstream Linux kernel. There are MANY tools out there, beyond Wind River, to develop apps to run on this OS.

    How do you know how difficult or easy it is to design an app for the Foleo? Please share with us WHY it is so difficult to develop for the Foleo.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Developer Support - The Foleo is a brand new platform with little support available.
    No, the Foleo is an implementation of Linux, which has been around for many years. It is just a matter of learning the specifics of the Foleo and designing accordingly. There are literally thousands of Linux support venues freely available on the internet for such an effort.

    You don't seem to have any experience with Linux or GNU/GPL communities. There isn't another OS in existance that has as much free support as is available for Linux.


    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Target Devices - Just one. Not a very large potential market.
    Your thinking is too closed minded.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    So as a developer would you choose to develop for a platform with only a single device, or a platform with exponentially more devices; and using tools that make you more effecient and with more support?
    Closed minded thinking again. Existing Linux apps could be reconfigured/modified to function on the Foleo. My guess is that the biggest hurdle is the Instant On functionality.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Oh, and I would not pay more than $300 for a Foleo type device, running PPC or other. A low-end Windows laptop starts at $500 and that ASUS EEE Linux device is around $200.
    There isn't a DECENT windows notebook anywhere for under $1000. Yes, you can find a notebook for less, but they are very poor quality and lacking big time. From what I've seen of the Foleo, the hardware is of very good quality and meant to last.

    TKOS
    Last edited by TheKingOfSting; 08/17/2007 at 01:13 AM.
  13. #153  
    dgoodisi,

    TheKingOfSting is absolutely correct. The Foleo is very easy to develop for hence their whole reason to be at Linux World--they literally gave out Foleos to developers. How are they not courting 3rd party developers?

    As far as platforms, I'm not sure what WM has to do with this: that's for phones and this is for a different device. I don't see WM developers necessarily switching over to just Foleo. OTOH, it should be easy for someone to pick up.

    Name me a cheap, solid state mini-laptop that's built around Linux? The community will most likely embrace it as they don't get much love from hardware makers; they're always the afterthought.

    As far a Palm support, ever hear of PDN? https://pdn.palm.com/regac/pdn/index.jsp

    That's where you go for the Foleo support as a developers: Foleo developer guide, API guide, etc. Yikes man, you need to do some homework! lol

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  14.    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    dgoodisi,

    TheKingOfSting is absolutely correct. The Foleo is very easy to develop for hence their whole reason to be at Linux World

    I wouldn't be so sure if I was you.

    First of all, the current Foleo OS is based on Palm's - not Wind River's - code.

    Secondly, porting apps to Palm Linux is not going to be as simple as you want it to be.

    Thirdly, in order to take advantage of the Foleo's whole raison d'Ítre - syncing - applications will need to be written from scratch, likely also necessitating corresponding versions for either (both?) the PalmOS or Windows Mobile devices that the Foleo will be expected to sync with. As far as I can tell, Palm itself is just in the early stages of getting the whole syncing concepts working - and they've had two or three years lead time to get this right. To expect a large number of independent developers to suddenly jump on the Foleo bandwagon and release a ton of Foleo-specific sync-capable applications is probably quite unrealistic.
  15. #155  
    I knew the fanboys would come out with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKingOfSting View Post
    What are you using for the basis of this statement? Palm has released a development platform for the Foleo. This tool is Wind River, therefore a development tool IS available. Futher, Foleo is running a mainstream Linux kernel. There are MANY tools out there, beyond Wind River, to develop apps to run on this OS.
    Wind River is based on Eclipse. I have used Eclipse and find it lacking.

    Regarding other tools; yes text editors can be used for development; and arguably MS Paint, PhotoShop, Dreamweaver, etc. can all be labeled "Foleo development tools".

    No, the Foleo is an implementation of Linux, which has been around for many years. It is just a matter of learning the specifics of the Foleo and designing accordingly. There are literally thousands of Linux support venues freely available on the internet for such an effort.
    Mac OS is an implementation of Linux, can all of the Mac apps run on other systems? Of course not. While the core kernel on the Foleo may be Linux, much of everything above, including the presentation layer, is brand new.

    As a C++ developer I can utilize resources from practically anywhere to obtain general C++ help and guidance. As a windows platform C++ developer my choices are narrowed down quite a bit.

    Let's say your developing an app for the Foleo, and you are having problems calling the APIs specific to the Foleo, where do you go?

    I am a member of Palm's development community. I used Eclipse to develop POS apps before making the switch to Windows Mobile. I have developed Java apps for various Linux and Unix platforms, as part of my chosen profession no less. I run Windows and Linux at home has part of my hobbiest efforts. And I am even considering purchasing a Macbook as my next laptop (like the form factor, but will boot into, GASP, Vista)

    I have always chosen the development platforms that provide the greatest ROI. The Foleo platform is not there yet. Will it be? Maybe. But as a developer choosing a platform to expend my limited resources on is it one I would select? Definately not.

    You don't seem to have any experience with Linux or GNU/GPL communities. There isn't another OS in existance that has as much free support as is available for Linux.
    Why was it big news when IBM announced they would provide support for Linux? Because FREE does not mean GOOD. Free support is good for the hobbiest developer and for the professional community to share ideas, but there are times when the enterprise developer needs information from the source.


    Your thinking is too closed minded.
    Thinking like a developer trying to make a buck is closed minded? What fantasy land are you living in?

    Closed minded thinking again. Existing Linux apps could be reconfigured/modified to function on the Foleo. My guess is that the biggest hurdle is the Instant On functionality.
    I always love to hear this "reconfigured" arguement; demonstrates either lack of experience or an attempt at spinning the truth. GUI on the Foleo is not the same as that on other Linux platforms; nearly all presentation layer code will have to be rebuilt. If you really could run Linux apps so easily don't you think Palm would be advertising such?

    There isn't a DECENT windows notebook anywhere for under $1000. Yes, you can find a notebook for less, but they are very poor quality and lacking big time. From what I've seen of the Foleo, the hardware is of very good quality and meant to last.
    $800 gets you a HP dv6000 series 15.4inch laptop with dual-core AMD CPU, 2gig of RAM, DVD burner, 160gig HD, WiFi, webcam, USB/Firewire ports; all the bells and whistles. Hardly lacking big time.

    I never denied the Foleo is a good form factor, it's just running the wrong OS and costs to much.
  16. #156  
    Yes, HP has been very good at releasing some cost effective yet full featured laptops. They cut down on cost by using AMD chips and sharing video memory. The shared video memory is what I don't like about their lower cost laptops, but it works fine for those who probably won't be doing any serious photo and video work, or gaming. Like Foleo users.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    dgoodisi,

    TheKingOfSting is absolutely correct. The Foleo is very easy to develop for hence their whole reason to be at Linux World--they literally gave out Foleos to developers. How are they not courting 3rd party developers?
    HUH? Two sentences that make no sense.
    Being someplace does not translate into something being easy.
    Foleo is based on Linux, so where exactly would they go to speak to developers besides Linux World?
    I never said they were not courting developers.

    As far as platforms, I'm not sure what WM has to do with this: that's for phones and this is for a different device. I don't see WM developers necessarily switching over to just Foleo. OTOH, it should be easy for someone to pick up.
    You are showing your ignorance regarding WM. WM is a GUI layer built on top of Windows CE. Windows CE is being/has been renamed Windows Embedded. Your familiarity with WM is obviously only in the consumer phone space, and you are completely ignoring all of those non-phone PPC devices that were so popular until they were replaced with convergent devices.

    There are literally thousands of devices running Windows Embedded; some examples include those computers used by meter maids, utility company field technitions, computers running assembly line robots, MRI/Ultrasound diagnostic equipment, etc. Using one tool I can develop for all of these devices.

    And BTW, WM already has more features than Foleo, right here, right now.

    Name me a cheap, solid state mini-laptop that's built around Linux? The community will most likely embrace it as they don't get much love from hardware makers; they're always the afterthought.
    You haven't been reading this thread, or my post to carefully then. ASUS Eee is a cheap Linux based laptop. By solid state I am assuming you mean no platter based HD. The ASUS Eee uses Flash RAM.
    http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3829

    As far a Palm support, ever hear of PDN? https://pdn.palm.com/regac/pdn/index.jsp
    That's where you go for the Foleo support as a developers: Foleo developer guide, API guide, etc.
    yes, I am familiar with PDN, I am even a member having developed enterprise POS apps in my day.

    To be blunt PDN is kinda weak, at least compared to the MS developer support sites.

    Yikes man, you need to do some homework! lol
    Based on my comments to your comments it looks like you need to join me in study hall.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post

    ...
    To expect a large number of independent developers to suddenly jump on the Foleo bandwagon and release a ton of Foleo-specific sync-capable applications is probably quite unrealistic.
    Thank you for understanding where I was coming from.

    I was strictly speaking as a developer having to make a choice on which platform to develop for. The Foleo with it's proprietary Linux based OS does not have the same ROI as the Windows Mobile platform.

    Were HTC to release a version of the Shift that was PPC only and at a comparable pricepoint I suspect you would see sales of the Foleo trickle to non-existent.
  19. BigTex's Avatar
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    #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by dgoodisi View Post
    Mac OS is an implementation of Linux, can all of the Mac apps run on other systems? Of course not. While the core kernel on the Foleo may be Linux, much of everything above, including the presentation layer, is brand new.
    I have to call BS here! (actually BSD) I do not believe that you are a Linux Developer or coder as almost everyone knows, including me who is a Linux "noob", that the Mac OS is NOT a Linux implementation but rather based on BSD Unix code.

    Why was it big news when IBM announced they would provide support for Linux? Because FREE does not mean GOOD. Free support is good for the hobbiest developer and for the professional community to share ideas, but there are times when the enterprise developer needs information from the source.
    This confirms my belief that you are not a Linux coder/developer. OSS and the OSS Community has made Linux the preferred enterprise system because of transparency of the source
    Waiting for Palm Pre on AT&T then can replace my iPhone. Needs Doc To Go and Flash

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  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by BigTex View Post
    I have to call BS here! (actually BSD) I do not believe that you are a Linux Developer or coder as almost everyone knows, including me who is a Linux "noob", that the Mac OS is NOT a Linux implementation but rather based on BSD Unix code.
    Yes you are correct, BSD Unix vs Linux. However the point about code for one linux device not necessarily running as is on another is valid. Just check out that other thread in this forum on Linux World. Also consider discussions regarding "porting" an app from one environment to another. If it really was write once run everywhere then why the need to port? (In that other thread everyone is all excited because it appears they should be able to port their favorit Linux apps)


    This confirms my belief that you are not a Linux coder/developer. OSS and the OSS Community has made Linux the preferred enterprise system because of transparency of the source
    I have coded Java targeting various Linux and Unix platforms, encapsulating 3-4 of the most painful years in my 15 year career in software development. Reread my posts, I only claimed to have developed Java applications; I never claimed to be a Linux coder/developer (unless loosely applied to Java applications).

    Currently I am primarily a .Net developer. That .Net runs mostly on the Windows platform (Monopix is the Linux platform) does not mean I consider myself a Windows developer.

    I define Windows and Linux developers as those who develop against the core OS kernels and UI APIs; in other words native code development. The days of native code development are hopefully long gone for me; way to much effort and low ROI.

    Yes, I have absolutely no desire to program professionally in anything other than .Net right now. But that decision is not based on ignorance of the options, but from years in the trenches.
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