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  1.    #1  
    HP's acquisition of Neoware (thin client manufacturer) and the buzz surrounding Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) has caused me to rethink the Foleo concept. The Neoware M100 is a diskless, fanless client with wifi that runs multiple OS's. VDI allows you to run a full copy of a desktop OS XP, XP Pro, W2K over the LAN, WAN or Internet. What's interesting is that upgrades are done on the server room, data can be stored on enterprise class hardware and backup is done with enterprise class backup tools AND if you lose, break or whatever your M100/Foleo all you need is another one, no lost data, no compromised security. Couple this with your Treo's broadband capabilities at 700Kbps and you have an exceptionally mobile, highly secure, extremely reliable mobile computin infrastructure at a very reasonable price.

    Maybe the Foleo isn't as useless as we thought?
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
  2. #2  
    Maybe the Foleo isn't as useless as we thought?
    Off course not... Foleo will be very usefull for lots of people IF it can met what people expected. The problem is people expectation very varies. and most of them not satisfied with what Foleo can do right now, we don't know what Foleo can at future time, it all depands of how many developers will think Foleo is a promising device.

    you have an exceptionally mobile, highly secure, extremely reliable mobile computin infrastructure at a very reasonable price.
    Agreed... but that will happen only when the Foleo already matured... I think maybe need one or two years ahead, when there are lots of 3rd party software. for now it is not secured and not reliable as companion.
  3. #3  
    It really doesn't need much at all in terms of 3rd party support given the OPs comments. If you will (and which will be the way that I'll be using the Foleo), all programs and data sit on a server (in my case, a home server). I remote into that server whenever I need files that aren't already on my Treo or to access programs that I don't want (or cannot) fit on the Foleo. In this case, because of the Treo's wireless (nearly) everywhere, I have with the Foleo the ability to access my data everywhere.

    The consequences of this type of computing is a marked decrease in cost of ownership, big increase on subscription-based services, and now the network is the computer (see also Google's declaration of the 700Mhz space and why any device should be able to freely plug in there). Commodize the hardware (just as landline phones were) and make the network the kicker. Only, don't own the network, own the services that enhance the mess out of it.

    Its not a hard vision at all, its just a good bit ahead of some "western" computer users want to see computing done.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  4. #4  
    A "GotoMyPC" type client on the Foleo would make it go a long ways.
  5. 1PTUser's Avatar
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    #5  
    This is what some of us have been saying.
    Enterprises have been moving to a re-centralization of Windows applications for years now (via Citrix & Terminal Services).
    Consumers and SMB's (small to mid-size businesses) are finding web-based apps easy to deploy (often nothing to install) and use. These aren't just document editing apps either. Consider SugarCRM, SalesForce.com, hosted opensource accounting, document imaging, project management and ERP. Even the little guys can have their data stored redundantly with disaster recovery plans already in place.
    With centralized storaged, application serving for windows programs, the Linux Terminal Server Project(free by the way) all you really need is a comfortable keyboard, decent screen, a mouse and a good internet connection. Also, why I say Palm should at least include a Terminal Server client on the Foleo from day one if corporate execs are their initial target market.

    Among the many advantages of thin-client computing is that devices such as old Win 9x celeron pc's, low end linux and WinCe terminals and even my Treo 700wx can all access and run EVERY application on my companies Win2k3 application servers. The high-end server hogs do all the real computing work

    BTW: Got a high-end PC at home? Install LTSP on it and give every body in your family, club, class, etc. a centralized desktop they can access from anywhere. If your LTSP machine can run it, you can run it from your Foleo or Pentium or whatever.
    BTW2: Neoware has the best management tools for thin-clients. Their software can most old pc's to centrally-managed, secure thin-client devices.
  6. #6  
    From my understanding of the 'Mobile Companion' concept, it primarily revolves around having your mobile device as your primary device. I can clearly see the value of this mobile companion when the mobile device in question is windows based such as the Raon Everun or oqo. You can basically run any windows apps, you have it everywhere with you, yet the input and display is very limited. Give a dummy notebook and voila, a workstation at your disposal. But if I substitute a windows media or Palm OS device (Treo?) as the centerpiece, then it becomes a very very limited platform.

    I say the concept is sound, the pieces are wrong.
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    #7  
    Will the Foleo/Treo combo have the bandwidth to make this a usable option? It sounds good on paper of course.
  8. 1PTUser's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by yulianto View Post
    From my understanding of the 'Mobile Companion' concept, it primarily revolves around having your mobile device as your primary device. I can clearly see the value of this mobile companion when the mobile device in question is windows based such as the Raon Everun or oqo. You can basically run any windows apps, you have it everywhere with you, yet the input and display is very limited. Give a dummy notebook and voila, a workstation at your disposal. But if I substitute a windows media or Palm OS device (Treo?) as the centerpiece, then it becomes a very very limited platform.

    I say the concept is sound, the pieces are wrong.
    Let me try and explain it another way for you...

    It doesn't matter what OS is on the client device if it supports the web apps or has compatible thin client software. I can run the latest version of Oracle's high-end financial apps, SAP, Photoshop or Microsoft Visual Studio programming suite from an old 486 that boots to DOS. How? Its old 10mb nic card still connects to the network and it has a working citrix client application installed on it. As a result, anything that can be run on the server platform (Windows 2003 in my case) can be run on that old 486. For years DOS, Unix, Linux, PocketPC and almost every flavor of Windows has had a supported client app. The end-user device is just an extended keyboard, mouse, and screen to where the real computing is happening - on the server. With web applications, the scenario is similar in that the browser becomes the thin-client application and most of the processing and data manipulation really happens in a server environment. The key here would be to have capable browser (javascript handling becomes essential) but no heavy work is done by your pc itself.

    This is not new. People are just becoming more aware as Google, 37Signals, Salesforce.com and others have made web based apps more functional and popular.

    As far as bandwidth requirements, in most cases ~256 kps can be very usable in the thin-client model. I've worked 8-10 hours straight using a verizon data card. Wether thethered to ev-do or via wifi, bandwidth should not be a problem. We use to run apps on NT4.0 servers accessed with 33k & 56k modems. Of course, anything involving media rich (ie video streaming) is a different story. We remotely the security cameras at our different facility using a local app to control bandwidth, but we can also look through the thin client... it's never as good that way.
    Last edited by 1PTUser; 07/25/2007 at 04:34 PM.
    Something old, something new. I got a ringer switch and 800W .
  9. #9  
    1PTUser, I was just reiterating my view on Jeff Hawkin's initial "Mobile companion" concept where (as I recall) he did not mention anything about server based\remote computing. Where he emphasized the mobile companion to be a "full sized keyboard and a bigger screen for your mobile device".

    I'm aware of web based services, remote desktop and the likes. Sorry to make you type up all that.
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    #10  
    I hear you yulianto. I should have re-read your comments. The Mobile Companion's "centerpiece", ie Treo specifically and smartphones in general, will undoubtedly get more powerful and increase in storage capacity in time. However, maninrochester and Antoine of MMM were speaking of the immediate potential of the Foleo more as a mobile thin client with centerpiece(s) being server based and accessible any where via the net. I'm glad you get it. Not everyone does.
    Something old, something new. I got a ringer switch and 800W .
  11. #11  
    I think the Foleo could have been spared many derogatory nicknames if Jeff didn't advertise it as the "next big thing". He said in an interview to "wait until you see what we come up with next" in the same sentence as "gigs of storage and gobs of other great hardware."

    He should have realized people would interpret this to be a super-duper Treo successor IMO.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  12.    #12  
    I impressed the crap out of a couple of colleagues yesterday at Starbucks, while there were still trying to get attached to the "free" wireless, my laptop was tethered to my Treo via Bluetooth(thanks to phoneinterfacelib) and running Citrix, my thick Outlook client and browsing the web. I don't NEED wi-fi hotspots! If the Foleo can do the same thing AND be an instant on device then it might very well be quite compelling.
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
  13. #13  
    This kind of remote computing is only as good as your weakest link. In this case, its the uptime of your home modem and your EDVO/HSDAP signal.

    I used to do tech support for a cable company, I can not understand why people want to rely on their home cable/DSL modem for critical stuff.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    This kind of remote computing is only as good as your weakest link. In this case, its the uptime of your home modem and your EDVO/HSDAP signal.

    I used to do tech support for a cable company, I can not understand why people want to rely on their home cable/DSL modem for critical stuff.
    If you work out of your home, what is a cost-effective alternative?
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    This kind of remote computing is only as good as your weakest link. In this case, its the uptime of your home modem and your EDVO/HSDAP signal.

    I used to do tech support for a cable company, I can not understand why people want to rely on their home cable/DSL modem for critical stuff.
    In six to eight years of using cable as my internet provider, I have only had two may three downtimes. That less than we have had in our corporate environment.
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59 View Post
    In six to eight years of using cable as my internet provider, I have only had two may three downtimes. That less than we have had in our corporate environment.
    Yep, less moving parts means less can break. My home network is more robust than work.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by skfny View Post
    I think the Foleo could have been spared many derogatory nicknames if Jeff didn't advertise it as the "next big thing". He said in an interview to "wait until you see what we come up with next" in the same sentence as "gigs of storage and gobs of other great hardware."

    He should have realized people would interpret this to be a super-duper Treo successor IMO.
    This is true. The change here was more conceptual than just specs, which is always harder for people to grasp at first.

    Had it a flashy UI with things that melted and swooshed away (ahem OSX) then people would have been like "ooo...shiny!"

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  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkY View Post
    If you work out of your home, what is a cost-effective alternative?
    Use a real laptop and sync the document when needed? You only need to pay 500+- more for a laptop that's as light/small as the Foleo.

    Take me for example. Streaming video (orb) works very well on my Nokia n800, but I find transcoding and watching the video locally on my 8
    GB card much more enjoyable experience.
    Last edited by whatever7; 07/26/2007 at 05:37 PM.
  19. #19  
    Are you saying that teathering to a cell phone is a better solution then "to rely on their home cable/DSL modem for critical stuff"?
  20.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkY View Post
    Are you saying that teathering to a cell phone is a better solution then "to rely on their home cable/DSL modem for critical stuff"?

    In a word, yes. The AVERAGE home user has no idea how to adequately protect or secure their computing environment. Tethering into a corporate data center where your apps run on machines that are 50 times more capable than the average home computer, managed by professionals, protected with data protection hardware and software and hardened with multiple layers of security is probably a better platform for critical data and access.
    Palm I >Palm IIIi>Palm 505> Zire 71>PEG37>T|X>TREO 700P That's a lot of palming!!
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