Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 137
  1. #81  
    Ben-
    Thanks for taking the time to respond here. I realize that there are things we'd like to know that you're not at liberty to discuss, but it's refreshing that you're willing to share what you can. Thanks.

    For what it's worth, I am very interested in the Foleo, but will probably hold off till there is IMAP support. I check mail daily on 3 different PCs and my Treo. IMAP is the best way I've found to keep everything organized. I can't see getting a device whose limited strengths are supposed to include email, yet doesn't support IMAP.

    I'm still really intrigued though, and will continue watching closely. I bet I'll buy one eventually.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gekko View Post
    Ben - forget about Tabs for a second - how many web pages can I have up at once on the current Foleo? Can I have multiple web pages open at the same time? Say Google, eBay, and Palm.com all up at the same time just like in Windows/IE? Or am I limited to one browser page/instance at a time?

    Thanks.
    Everything I've read suggests that there will only be one application visible at a time, so I'd lean towards being limited to one page.
  3. ksom's Avatar
    Posts
    355 Posts
    Global Posts
    358 Global Posts
    #83  
    Thanks for the followup question and answer that helped clarify what the internal memory means..

    As long as I can add space that can launch program, I feel a lot better about the memory issue.

    In fact, I am glad Ben took more conservative interpretation of my question. It is nice to know Foleo has a honest development team behind.

    I guess my only big issue with Foleo is the price, which I think will become a lesser issue if Palm can boundle some more programs. I spend about $100 on software on my 650, I hope a $600 device can save me some of that.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
  4. #84  
    The conceptual model on the Foleo is similar to that on the Palm OS PDAs -- you have a device with a number of installed programs which are all running and available at all times. You switch your view among the installed programs, but you never explicitly quit an application, it just goes to the background.

    (Obviously, this isn't literally the way the system works -- there's not enough memory to have every application that you could possibly put on the device running at once, but we try to be smart and ask the the least recently used program to temporarily shutdown when memory is needed for the foreground app.)

    Because of this, there's only one "Web Browser" application, and at the moment, it only views one web page at time. There's limited support for pop-up windows, but they act like dialogs and must be dismissed before further navigation in the main window.

    It is possible to hack multiple Web Browser applications into the system by modifying some of the system files to create additional applications: "Web Browser 2", "Web Browser 3", etc. This isn't a supported modification, and I really don't know if it would work reliably because the multiple processes might try to modify shared files like the bookmarks and history database at the same time.
  5. wlmoore's Avatar
    Posts
    127 Posts
    Global Posts
    130 Global Posts
       #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    Found a better picture. The third one is Bluefire. They're developing a VPC client for the Foleo.
    Did you mean VNC?

    Or are they planning to port Virtual PC to the Foleo?
  6. wlmoore's Avatar
    Posts
    127 Posts
    Global Posts
    130 Global Posts
       #86  
    Ben,
    Thanks so much for your participation. Gameboy70 has done a hell of a job as the world's foremost expert on the Foleo, but your inputs are much welcome.

    If you don't mind, some more questions I've been curious about.

    Will Foleo ship with a Java SE runtime environment? Even if I have to launch a jar from the command line?

    Can the browser run Java applets?

    Thanks.
  7. JayC3's Avatar
    Posts
    149 Posts
    Global Posts
    154 Global Posts
    #87  
    Hi Ben, I appreciate your honesty and passion for the Foleo and for also reaching out to the community. Some of us here in treocentral believe that the Foleo has great potential to be Palm's next hit, in line with this I would like to ask some few questions (Ofcourse I understand if you cannot disclose some of the answers to us ) :

    1. Does Palm plan to support running movies/video(you tube) in the future for the foleo in the current 1st gen machine? Jeff mentioned in the D conference that he wished that the foleo had a faster processor, does this mean that running video/movies is near to impossible in the 1st gen foleo? Can 3rd party developers create an application to run movies and videos with it using the current hardware?

    2. Any reason why Palm did not implement a full desktop browser for the Foleo? Is it possible for 3rd party developers to create one in the 1st gen foleo?

    3. Lastly, why didn't Palm's marketing labelled the Foleo as a linux sub-notebook (or something else that is not "mobile companion")? Most of my friends are quite confused with the term "mobile companion" as it seems that the foleo is an accessory to the Treo. Hope you can share your thoughts on this.

    Thanks again for your comments here in the forums. Cheers !
  8. #88  
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9472/#134061

    As I've posted before, the true "innovation" in the FOOLeo concept would only be if Palm has figured out wireless syncing between smartphones and online servers. Palm needs to offer online apps that can be used via any Internet-connected computer, allowing app data to be saved online + automatically synced to a user's smartphone (or ANY other device, for that matter, including a FOOLeo). Even better would be to offer a full-featured suite of apps stored on a USB Flash drive that would allow the apps to be run temporarily (+ without any traces being left behind) on a host computer + then would automatically upload file changes to a user's personal space on Palm's server, save the data to the USB Flash drive + wirelessly update the smartphone/other devices in the user's profile.

    THAT is the TVoR vision of the future:
    1) Full-featured apps always accessible via either web apps or on a USB Flash drive.
    2) Automatic saving/syncing of data to online server, smartphone, +/- USB Flash drive, and any other wirelessly connected device capable of communicating with a user's online storage folder.

    The key is the software governing the data transfers. Hardware and OS become unimportant.

    Wireless data syncing is so much more a significant idea in next-generation computing that Hawkins must be embarassed pimping this pathetic little FOOLeo like a played-out ho. Palm's apparent failure to realize Hawkins' vision is shaping up to be a spectacular failure. This would mark the third time the company has taken one of his brilliant ideas and failed to execute, leaving the door wide open for the competition to cash in on his ideas. Well done, Palm.

    TVoR



    http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9472/#134219

    The USB flash drive isn't mandatory - it would just be a convenient way of temporarily loading an environment of custom applications onto a host computer. Yes, the apps could instead be strictly Web-based, but that means an Internet connection would be mandatory in order to be able to work on a bigger screen. The apps could also reside on the (PalmLinux) Treo and then be accessed when connected to the host computer with a USB cable. If the Treo app is able to use PdaReach-like linking to the host computer and is (ideally) able to scale the Treo app up to fit the host computer's screen then all you would ever need is literally just your Treo and a USB cable. (Or even leave the cable at home if the process works over Wi-Fi.)

    MotionApps has an application theat does basically this (scales to the host computer's screen size when the Treo is connected via USB or Wi-Fi) and hints at the Treo's future:

    http://www.motionapps.com/mexpenses/_treo700p.jsp

    This is an absolutely BRILLIANT concept, and plays perfectly into Hawkins' vision of the Treo as the PC of the future: apps and data residing on the Treo, but ALWAYS accessible from ANY computer.

    I believe Palm intends to release a PalmLinux Treo with similar functionality . But first they need to ensure something like POSE works reliably under PalmLinux, so that legacy PalmOS apps are still supported. Then we'll see a series of PalmLinux apps that work both on the Treo and on a desktop/laptop screen when the Treo is connected. The biggest problem in all this is the SPEED at which Palm's software development has moved. If only these concepts had been ready for release 1 or 2 years ago...

    TVoR
  9. #89  
    Original post

    >>>What you really want is something that makes the capabilities of the phone more practical. You want something that at an instant can be hooked up to your phone for typing and displaying.... The Foleo is simply this logic followed to it’s ultimate and inevitable conclusion, and when this process finally is started it will amplify itself channeling even more money into phones and less into PCs.

    Well put. That's the vision all right. I think Hawkins articulates his idea more clearly on Palm's web site than he managed to do during the D5 conference:


    When we started this company in 1992 it was based on a very simple vision: that the future of personal computing would be mobile, that over time more and more of your personal computing needs would be satisfied by a device that fits in your pocket or purse.... We want to make the computer smaller and smaller, and we can do that. We can put more memory in it, we can put more data in it, we can put movies and pictures and so on. So we thought about the future, and we said, well, in the future people are going to have these very powerful portable computers in their pocket. But, they have these two limitations: there are times when you need a large display, and there are times when you need a large keyboard.... In our mind the future of mobile computing has and always will be small devices that are in your pocket, that contain all your data, access to the Internet and so on. And there is a need for a large screen experience..... We believe [Foleo] is really a beginning of a whole new wave of finally and truly making the mobile device that's in your pocket your primary PC.



    Nonsense. If you don't want the weight, you accept the compromises that using Treos present. If you're needing a large display and a large keyboard frequently then you'd need to carry the FOOLeo around frequently. If you're carrying around a 2 1/2 POUND FOOLeo all the time then why not carry around a 2 1/2 pound Real Windows laptop instead? Why compromise the software if you're willing to lug the weight? This whole "FOOLeo as bigger Treo keyboard/screen" positioning is nonsense. Hawkins is just using this argument to try to use Palm's beachhead/foot in the door (Treos) as a means of selling what would otherwise be unsellable (a non-Windows laptop with limited (no?) software). Please cut the B.S., Beersy. Unless the FOOLeo ships with software that lets users do pretty much EVERY COMMON FUNCTION that a Real Windows laptop does, then it's of limited use to MOST (not all) people.

    Ask yourself these 2 questions:

    a)What "problem"/need does the FOOLeo "solve"/address?
    b) What other devices are available that also can address those issues and does this competition do the job "better" than the FOOLeo?

    It's pretty obvious that if you're carrying around a 2 1/2 pound FOOLeo just to have a bigger screen/keyboard for your Treo, there are better options available (for MOST people).

    There are 2 ways Palm could develop this concept. Which way they go depends on whether they see themselves as a SOFTWARE company vs. a CELLPHONE company vs. a HARDWARE company, and who they would prefer to compete with in the future:

    Option 1 is to turn the FOOLeo into a standalone, fully-fledged, PalmLinux, instant-on microlaptop with a complete suite of (ideally MS Office-compatible) apps that just happen to also sync with PalmLinux +/- PalmOS 5 Treos. Push the small size, battery life, ruggedness, low cost to support, simplicity, "Zenness", and whatever other B.S. they can come up with that they think people might believe. In this case it doesn't really matter what phone is used, since the main function of the phone would be to act as a modem. Sit back and watch if flop. If if doesn't say "Windows" on it, business users (probably the ideal market for such a device) will avoid it like the plague. Furthermore, Palm would be competing with EVERY laptop maker in the world selling a Real Windows, Mac or Linux microlaptop.

    Option 2 is to turn the Treo into a fully-fledged mini-computer running PalmLinux apps that can sync wirelessly to ONLINE databases of the SAME applications. Syncing can be realtime or on demand. If you want to get fancy, ensure the apps can also be run OFFLINE on any platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, PalmLinux) and that syncing can be triggered the next time users go online. Options to save predetermined numbers of timed backups of files online can be set in an app's (or better yet, file's) preferences. Suddenly, desktop/laptop OS doesn't matter. Paid Internet connection doesn't matter (if Wi-Fi is available). Hardware doesn't matter (ANY computer with a keyboard, screen and Internet connection can become the Treo's "bigger keyboard + screen"). All that matters is the smartphone.

    Smartphone = New PC

    S = N PC˛

    Palm gets to sell more Treos. Carriers love the continual data tranfers (most users would choose unlimited data packages)

    Palm gets to sell FOOLeos to people that want cheap small computers to use on the go.

    Palm gets to sell online storage for data (e.g. store personal music collections online + stream them on demand as a personal radio station).

    Palm (optionally) gets to sell offline versions of its apps so users can work on files without an Internet connection.

    Which option would a SMART company choose?

    Syncing data to a FOOLeo is just Palm's way of trying to prod people into getting their feet wet. ONLINE syncing is where the real $$$ is - for both Palm and the carriers.
  10. TRgEOff's Avatar
    Posts
    589 Posts
    Global Posts
    591 Global Posts
    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post

    The apps could also reside on the (PalmLinux) Treo and then be accessed when connected to the host computer with a USB cable. If the Treo app is able to use PdaReach-like linking to the host computer and is (ideally) able to scale the Treo app up to fit the host computer's screen then all you would ever need is literally just your Treo and a USB cable. (Or even leave the cable at home if the process works over Wi-Fi.)

    MotionApps has an application theat does basically this (scales to the host computer's screen size when the Treo is connected via USB or Wi-Fi) and hints at the Treo's future:

    http://www.motionapps.com/mexpenses/_treo700p.jsp

    This is an absolutely BRILLIANT concept, and plays perfectly into Hawkins' vision of the Treo as the PC of the future: apps and data residing on the Treo, but ALWAYS accessible from ANY computer.
    I love this concept, of mobile-resident applications scaling up when linked to a PC (or even perhaps just a monitor?). But the mExpenses example unfortunately falls far short of being able to deliver as per the scenarios suggested above.

    Not only do you need to install a 9Mb version of the app on your PC, but you need a second app, Motionlink, to get the Treo and PC to communicate. And from the manual there seems an amazing amount of rigmarole to get the communication happening - to the point where I fail to see why it wouldnt be easier just to utilise a hotsync --and which made me give up on checking any further! So maybe there's something I am missing re the hype on the developer's website about the revolutionary, "first dual user-interface" nature of the application.
    geoff

    Treo 650 1.20 LAP.
  11. #91  
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9453/#133606


    TVoR's Paradigm Shift: Web-Accessible, Smartphone-Centric Applications [The "WASCA Manifesto"]


    Okay, so we've now all had time to digest Palm's recent embarrassing announcement of the FOOLeo®. We've heard Jeff Hawkins fumble around trying to explain its raison d'ętre. We've heard the Palm Apologists struggle to avoid admitting that the FOOLeo is something other than a complete disaster for Palm.

    Hawkins claims that the FOOLeo is being positioned as a Treo companion, a veritable physical expander of the Treo's tiny screen and keyboard. The Treo remains the "brains" of the operation, while the FOOLeo acts as a portable equivalent of a laptop's docking station, complete with keyboard and bigger screen. The argument for such a setup is that everyone always carries around a cell phone, and as cell phones get smarter and acquire larger on-device storage, eventually these phones have the potential to become our primary computing devices. The only limitation in that case becomes the physical size of the cellphone, which both limits ease the entering data (via keyboard) and also makes it difficult to view the data due to small screen size. As long as the goal for the ideal cellphone remains for it to be as small as possible, cellphone design will always be at cross purposes with ideal methods of entering and viewing data. In the future, voice transcription software, holographic projection displays, screens projected onto eyeglasses etc. may be able to obviate the need for physically larger keyboards and screens, but this type of technology is still several years away. So what do users do now?

    [Cue triumphant music] ENTER THE FOOLeo...

    But wait a minute! Why would anyone in their right mind want to carry around another 2 1/2 pound device that can't even run regular Windows applications? Especially when dozens of lighter devices that do run Real Windows® are available? Isn't the whole point of convergence devices to avoid carrying extra hardware? If the Treo and other smartphones are supposed to become the personal computers of the future, surely there must be a better solution to the problems of entering data into and viewing data from tiny smartphone devices. Of course there's a better solution, but unfortunately, it's a rather revolutionary paradigm shift. And one other thing: Since it doesn't really require any new hardware, it won't exactly be a big moneymaker for Palm unless it becomes popular and manages to boost Treo sales. Let's just call it "Palm's Dirty Little Secret". The answer is...





    Web-Accessible, Smartphone-Centric Applications [The "WASCA Manifesto"] featuring wireless (+/- wired) syncing to smartphones!

    This is the first REAL paradigm shift we've seen since the dawn of the "PC Era", but it appears that Palm is too afraid/incompetent/slow to embrace it fully. How far to take this new way of thinking depends on whether a given company makes a lot of money selling desktops/laptops and/or software for desktops/laptops. If the company (e.g. Palm) has no vested interest in desktop/laptops and the software that runs on them, then the smart phone can be completely freed to become the new PC. Purely Web-based applications (available through any Internet-connected dumb terminal/desktop/laptop) would then allow users to have access to personal files with the added bonus of larger screens and keyboards whenever necessary. Taken to the extreme, users would be able to have real-time syncing (through broadband connections) to their smartphone of data being entered into these Web-based applications. A simpler solution would involve entering data into Web-based applications which would then be backed up (either over the air, via WiFi, via Bluetooth or via wired connection) to the smartphone with a user-initiated sync. With online storage available (at a price) for the data generated with Web-based applications, this syncing could occur at the users whim.

    Companies selling desktops/laptops and/or software for desktops/laptops would obviously prefer for users to sync data to their more full-featured applications residing on desktops/laptops, while leaving the Web-based applications for more simplistic data entry and viewing.

    So where does this leave the FOOLeo? Nowhere. Palm's problem is that it currently lacks the software needed to have PIM, word processing, accounting, database, presentation, music, video and other data syncing with their Treos. A project of this scope would require flawless integration of a complete suite of Web-based applications with counterparts on the Treo. It seems highly unlikely that PalmOS 5 would-be robust enough to handle this type of mobile application. Can you say PalmLinux? I knew you could.

    The FOOLeo is simply a beta test mule (donkey?) for the whole concept of a smartphone syncing with a larger device wirelessly. Its (simplistic) email syncing merely amounts to an early proof of concept. Baby steps. For Palm to REALLY succeed, they need to cut out the need for proprietary HARDWARE like the FOOLeo by figuring out how to get the Web-based syncing running smoothly.

    Two problems:
    1) Palm's code monkey talent is too limited to get this all up and running with the bugs worked out anytime soon.
    2) Microsoft (and soon Apple) already have suites of functional desktop applications as well as smartphone applications that could be used to create a competing system fairly quickly. I doubt that Palm will be able to execute quickly enough to have a chance in this impending David versus Goliath death match.

    Treo = The new PC. Brilliant. Simply, Palm.
  12. #92  
    thanks Ben.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by TRgEOff View Post
    I love this concept, of mobile-resident applications scaling up when linked to a PC (or even perhaps just a monitor?). But the mExpenses example unfortunately falls far short of being able to deliver as per the scenarios suggested above.

    Not only do you need to install a 9Mb version of the app on your PC, but you need a second app, Motionlink, to get the Treo and PC to communicate. And from the manual there seems an amazing amount of rigmarole to get the communication happening - to the point where I fail to see why it wouldnt be easier just to utilise a hotsync --and which made me give up on checking any further! So maybe there's something I am missing re the hype on the developer's website about the revolutionary, "first dual user-interface" nature of the application.

    I suspect most of the apps needed to properly showcase these concepts aren't quite yet "ready for prime time", but Palm can't wait any longer. The idea of hooking up your Treo to any computer and seeing the app scale up is pretty cool though. Eventually, the scaling needs to be able to work without requiring anything to be installed on a host computer.

    For now, the most practical solution would be web-based apps that store their data in a user's online folder which in turn can sync to Treos and Foleos. Another option is having apps that run off USB flash cards.

    I wonder when we'll start seeing PalmLinux Treos and whether or not the new Foleo apps will run as-is on a PalmLinux Treo.
  14. #94  
    Ben,
    Thanks for taking the time to share your insight. I think more communication is good for Palm. While there are some types of info that are best kept under wraps for competitive or marketing reasons, I think secrecy for secrecy's sake just frustrates your own customer base. That said, here are a few questions which I hope you can answer.

    Can the wireless functionality be shut off completely so that it can be used "offline" on a plane?

    Will multi-tasking really be like that on PalmOS PDAs, or more like WM PDAs, where applications can actively run in the background?

    Have you met Jon Rubinstein yet, or is that going to wait until after the transaction is approved?

    Thanks.
  15. ksom's Avatar
    Posts
    355 Posts
    Global Posts
    358 Global Posts
    #95  
    Web-Accessible is not really the key thing for Foleo. People can suspect that Jeff or Palm wants to eliminate PC and make people only use Foleo and a phone. I don't think they are that stupid to realize it aint to happen.

    Simple, as people argue small devices is going to be more powerful and PC will become unnecessary, PC will be even more powerful. And with more powerful PC, people will find new applications that would require that additional power. So there is no way that a smartphone will replace my PC, there is no way Foleo can replace a PC. I think it is correct that Palm positioned Foleo between PC and a phone and view that as a new market space.

    For the same logic, an internet site cannot replace my harddrive, because as it increase in size and speed, so does my harddrive. You can buy a 1TB USB external harddrive now for $500 and USB 2.0 speed is 480MB/s. By the time 480MB/s internet connect is cheap for everyone, there would be USB 3.0, 4.0 that runs in giga bytes. So how can a smartphone become the center of my storage need? I already has about 1TB space centered around my home desktop. By the time a phone can store that much data, I would expect I have 250TB surround my PC.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by palmdoc2005 View Post
    If it was Linux based, why couldn't they have just put in Evolution and Firefox?
    I think this is a really key question: How easy will it be to port Firefox and Thunderbird and Sunbird. What about OpenOffice?

    A linux notebook that could run the entire Mozilla and OpenOffice Suites of tools would be fantastic. I've been wondering all along why Palm chose DataViz over OpenOffice. I assumed the port wouldn't be so simple.

    Does the Palm Linux GUI run over X?
  17. #97  
    Exactly. If it had OO, Firefox, Thunderbird or Evolution, does multimedia (including videos) bundled with the features we know it has: good battery life, wifi, autosyncs with your Treo and Instant on, I'd be getting this baby......
    That would be 99% of what people use laptops for anyway - Office, PIM, Email, Web.
    The Foleo should not be just positioned as a "smartphone companion" but it has to be enough of a workhorse to be a notebook replacement IMO.
    Check out my My Medical webOS Apps
    Featured free apps: DrugView | Eponyms | eMed | Dosecalcfree | Beeb News
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by guinnessdraught View Post
    I think this is a really key question: How easy will it be to port Firefox and Thunderbird and Sunbird. What about OpenOffice?

    A linux notebook that could run the entire Mozilla and OpenOffice Suites of tools would be fantastic. I've been wondering all along why Palm chose DataViz over OpenOffice. I assumed the port wouldn't be so simple.

    Does the Palm Linux GUI run over X?
    Look at the Foleo's specs. It probably is running a 300 MHz standard Treo-issue chip, has 128 MB of RAM and has limited video capability. Maybe the decisions to not allow multiple browser tabs or to allow multiple apps to be open in their own windows at the same time are an attempt to hide the limitations of those specs. Maybe porting attempts are going to have a few "issues". Just look at what happened to all the promised we heard about Linux for Nokia's 770 and 800 Internet tablets.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    They were all completely drained. What could have done such a thing?
  19. #99  
    Like every other product in the world, people either love it or hate it. That is why there are so many versions/models of the same product. I would never spend $ for a Mercedes when a Honda can get me from point A to point B for less. Then again, that's me. My friend wanted a Mercedes and got one. I'm happy for her. It's her money and her decision. I would never dream of getting on a website and posting over and over again why people are making a mistake by purchasing one.
    Personally, I can't wait to see the Foleo in person this Thursday and will reserve final judgement until then. I have to admit it appeals to me for the same reasons Mal and others have already posted. I will have my Treo 700P with me and hopefully will have time to see if it will meet my needs.
    My Treo: I think I'll keep her. All dressed up for prom and her date Foleo stood her up
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by fairoasis View Post
    Like every other product in the world, people either love it or hate it. That is why there are so many versions/models of the same product. I would never spend $ for a Mercedes when a Honda can get me from point A to point B for less. Then again, that's me. My friend wanted a Mercedes and got one. I'm happy for her. It's her money and her decision. I would never dream of getting on a website and posting over and over again why people are making a mistake by purchasing one.
    Personally, I can't wait to see the Foleo in person this Thursday and will reserve final judgement until then. I have to admit it appeals to me for the same reasons Mal and others have already posted. I will have my Treo 700P with me and hopefully will have time to see if it will meet my needs.
    Great post!
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions