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  1. #41  
    Yeah, that was a sheet listing some Foleo app developers. Unfortunately, by the time I realized that I forgot to take one of the sheets it was too late.

    The photos were taken with the 755p, so even the full size version is hard to read. Going from memory, though, I recognize all but one of them. Astraware has the games. I can't identify or remember the second name on the list, but I remember that they were doing an app for remote file access similar to PC Anywhere. The third one is a blank for me. The fourth one is EverNote; I think they're doing a memo app. The fifth one is MotionApps, the mDayscape people. The sixth one is TealPoint, who had TealSafe installed on the Foleo next to the flyer. The Palm employee told me she saw them demo a video player a couple of days before that played clips "in a window."

  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by braj View Post
    But then I think you need to ask yourself is this thing worth $500? I totally agree it is worthwhile as a device but the price will keep me from buying it.
    Sentiments echoed again. Especially since many already spent about $400 on their Treos! Plus software. I just take the Treo alone and deal with it, rather than spend another $600(before the rebate).
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    Yeah, that was a sheet listing some Foleo app developers. Unfortunately, by the time I realized that I forgot to take one of the sheets it was too late.

    The photos were taken with the 755p, so even the full size version is hard to read. Going from memory, though, I recognize all but one of them. Astraware has the games. I can't identify or remember the second name on the list, but I remember that they were doing an app for remote file access similar to PC Anywhere. The third one is a blank for me. The fourth one is EverNote; I think they're doing a memo app. The fifth one is MotionApps, the mDayscape people. The sixth one is TealPoint, who had TealSafe installed on the Foleo next to the flyer. The Palm employee told me she saw them demo a video player a couple of days before that played clips "in a window."
    Thanks! The second one is Avvenu - a file access service, as you said.
    www.avvenu.com

    Anyone recognize the third one?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Sentiments echoed again. Especially since many already spent about $400 on their Treos! Plus software. I just take the Treo alone and deal with it, rather than spend another $600(before the rebate).
    Hawkins and Palm seriously need to reexamine their marketing strategy. The "mobile companion" moniker is leading everyone to believe that the Foleo is somehow dependent on the Treo. "Mobile companion" does not mean "Treo companion," although it functions in that capacity as well; so factoring the Treo into the TCO is no different than with any other laptop. When you buy any laptop, you've already spent $400 on your Treo. Even though you HotSync with that laptop on a daily basis you don't factor the cost of the Treo into the laptop purchase. Whether or not the Foleo is of intrinsic value to you relative to a regular laptop is an entirely different argument, but pairing the cost of the Treo and Foleo without doing the same for a laptop seems inconsistent to me, or at least an arbitrary division. You might as well add all three together.

    Yes, the Foleo does augment the Treo's native functionality, but it's also a self-contained device. You create and edit documents directly on the Foleo and access the internet through WiFi; the smartphone assists in connecting through DUN and in synchronizing email. Palm's model of the smartphone's relationship in the array of mobile devices is that instead of having ubiquitous access to all of your information from "the cloud," your phone would have a local "master copy" of the data.

    The phone is the one device people carry with them ubiquitously. One study indicates that the average person goes 12 hours before realizing he forgot his wallet; the same person only goes 23 minutes before realizing he forgot his phone. Palm will probably wind up releasing a line of cheap POS feature phones, sans touchscreen (like Gandolf) and QWERTY, for which the Foleo would become the primary data entry device.

    Of course, just a theory
  5. TxDot's Avatar
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    #45  
    Well I want one but it's going to take some convincing to pay $500 for it. The older I get the less I like trying to see things on my Treo. It's just to dang small. If the Foleo is as convenient as it sounds, especially the instant on/off and the size is reasonable it might just be what I need. I can also see a whole cottage industry springing up to provide accessories for it. I'm thinking of a nice leather folio where you put the Foleo on one side and pockets for storing business cards, memory sticks, pens, etc... on the other side it could be perfect for attending meetings and taking notes. If you have a WiFi connection you can Google things as necessary. I think it'll be a hit! The proof will be when other companies start making one similar to it.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  6. #46  
    Gameboy, in my case, I already have 2 fully functional laptops that sync fine with ALL my phones. What's going to convince me to spend even more money? Especially at the price point of another laptop?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    Very interesting Gameboy70, thanks for the detail. Definitely perked my interest and sounds like Palm is excelling at least in quality of the product, which alway seems their strong point (I still think Treo phones have the best build quality, especially compared to Moto or HTC)
    HTC makes Treos, except I think the 680 line. HTC has decent build quality from what I've seen(2125 was solid, 8125 worked even after taking somewhat of a beating, 8525 seems pretty well-built). Moto can go either way. I agree they are iffy, you get a solid phone or not, depending on luck.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  8. braj's Avatar
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    #48  
    Can the email application act independently of a Treo?

    I personally think something like syncing your spreadsheets to an online server rather than a Treo makes more sense, with offline editing functionality of course. Trying to keep your spreadsheets in sync between the Treo and your real desktop would still be a pain.

    And I think that is where I have a philosophical deviation from Hawking's view of the future. He thinks the heart of your mobile data life should be the smartphone, but I think it should be on a server someplace, with automatic backups, no risk of physically loss, and access from anywhere. The Foleo and the Treo should sync to that, not to each other. Let the Foleo get it's net connection from the Treo when wifi is unavauilable, let it edit docs directly on the Treo, please let it mirror the phone's apps in a window on the Foloe's screen at 2x resolution. Give the Fole more native functionality out of the box and let it be a real stand-alone product with really compelling reasons to also buy a TReo.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    Gameboy, in my case, I already have 2 fully functional laptops that sync fine with ALL my phones. What's going to convince me to spend even more money? Especially at the price point of another laptop?
    I repeat, whether or not the value of the Foleo is compelling enough to purchase is a different argument. You're the world's expert on your needs. Some people don't need a purchase a bicycle when they already have a Land Rover. Other Land Rover owners have a different idea of off-road recreation.

    I was only disagreeing with adding the price of the Treo to the total cost of ownership. The Foleo is no different than a laptop in that context. They both synchronize with the Treo, so if you're going to argue the Foleo is a $1000 investment, it's only reasonable to apply the same logic to any $600 laptop, regardless of functionality.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    HTC makes Treos, except I think the 680 line. HTC has decent build quality from what I've seen(2125 was solid, 8125 worked even after taking somewhat of a beating, 8525 seems pretty well-built). Moto can go either way. I agree they are iffy, you get a solid phone or not, depending on luck.
    But HTC plays a much different role with Palm, they are merely a contractor who builds the device en masse for Palm. They have zero input on choice of materials, design and quality of the parts.

    While actual HTC products are "ok" for builds, they are quite inferior, IMO to the Treo line in quality of parts and feel of the device. A cursory look at the Mogul forums will also validate this with many saying it "feels" kind of cheap with flimsy battery covers and poor d-pad implementation. Just like how the iPhone will feel nicer than any other device out there as far as quality.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  11. #51  
    So this can be just as useful without the phone?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    But HTC plays a much different role with Palm, they are merely a contractor who builds the device en masse for Palm. They have zero input on choice of materials, design and quality of the parts.

    While actual HTC products are "ok" for builds, they are quite inferior, IMO to the Treo line in quality of parts and feel of the device. A cursory look at the Mogul forums will also validate this with many saying it "feels" kind of cheap with flimsy battery covers and poor d-pad implementation. Just like how the iPhone will feel nicer than any other device out there as far as quality.
    I had no problems in build quality whatsoever with my 2125s. If the 8125 can take a beating and still work, the quality must be good! Although I do agree the battery door could have been better on it. I haven't used the 8525 yet, so can't truly comment on that except to say the ATT version seems solid.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    So this can be just as useful without the phone?
    Yes! That's why I'm complaining about Palm's vague marketing of the product as a "mobile companion," leading people to infer that it's a companion to the Treo rather than the person. I see this "you need a Treo" impression everywhere, and Palm keeps compounding the confusion with their "it's not a laptop" positioning, creating an aura of mystique that's totally unwarranted.

    A Macbook Pro is less useful without a iPhone, but it's still useful in its own right.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by braj View Post
    Can the email application act independently of a Treo?
    The Palm Store didn't have a WiFi connection for me to try Foleo's Versamail without using the Treo's DUN, but I can't think of any technical reason why an email client with an internet connection couldn't get email directly. Once again, this is a case of Palm emphasizing synchronization without discussing the product's native functionality.

    I personally think something like syncing your spreadsheets to an online server rather than a Treo makes more sense, with offline editing functionality of course. Trying to keep your spreadsheets in sync between the Treo and your real desktop would still be a pain.
    The Foleo adds the offline editing functionality, with better ergonomics than a smartphone, without removing the option of keeping those documents in the cloud. Clearly there's a reason why people use thumb drives to sneakernet documents between computers, despite with zeitgeist for Web 2.0.

    I agree that synching docs between the Treo and your real desktop is a pain, which is why I only do it myself occasionally. I have some boring theories about how groupthink at Palm HQ came up with that workflow model (their execs probably do everything by email, collaborating and updating documents by attachment), but I'm not saying I agree with it. Nor do I subscribe to the network-as-computer paradigm. Neither model, sneakernet or Web 2.0, scales elegantly for ubiquitous storage and retreival without a disciplined user. That's not exactly the average person.

    Pontificating aside, I just want a lightweight tool that's ready to work the moment I'm ready. If Palm would just come out and say, "This is a small instant-on laptop for fast email/web access, document editing and PDA synching," they would make fewer enemies.

    And I think that is where I have a philosophical deviation from Hawking's [sic] view of the future. He thinks the heart of your mobile data life should be the smartphone, but I think it should be on a server someplace, with automatic backups, no risk of physically loss, and access from anywhere. The Foleo and the Treo should sync to that, not to each other. Let the Foleo get it's net connection from the Treo when wifi is unavauilable, let it edit docs directly on the Treo, please let it mirror the phone's apps in a window on the Foloe's screen at 2x resolution. Give the Fole more native functionality out of the box and let it be a real stand-alone product with really compelling reasons to also buy a TReo.
    Until some revolutionary uber-Bluetooth becomes available, mirroring the phone apps in real time is not an option unless the Foleo were nothing but wireless monitor, and the Treo had wireless VGA-out capability.

    Local connectivity is more reliable than remote connectivity. HotSynch has been reliable for over a decade, and I don't see anyone abandoning it for OTA synching on MyPalm. When Google Gears supports something more than RSS and is ported to mobile devices and all major OS platforms, we might have the infrastructure to really have access from anywhere. But server-side solutions are inevitably utopian to the extent that your influence on providers is necessarily more limited than your control of products in your hands. That's why people prefer private vehicles to public transit, however ecologically unsound.
    Last edited by Gameboy70; 06/23/2007 at 04:29 PM.
  15. ksom's Avatar
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    #55  
    I mean natively without any need of 3rd party launch programs. This may be the key factor when we look at the built-in memory space. If it can start program on the CF card just like native memory (I can tolerate a little performance), then 128MB of memory is not too bad.

    Again, my main concern with Foleo are:
    * price
    * memory space
  16. ksom's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    Hawkins and Palm seriously need to reexamine their marketing strategy. The "mobile companion" moniker is leading everyone to believe that the Foleo is somehow dependent on the Treo. "Mobile companion" does not mean "Treo companion," although it functions in that capacity as well; so factoring the Treo into the TCO is no different than with any other laptop.
    The best way for Palm to make it clear that "mobile companion" is not "Treo companion" is quickly announce a non-Treo phone that works with Foleo.
  17. #57  
    Palm needs to make it clear that the Foleo is companion to the mobile person rather than a mobile device. In theory the Foleo should be compatible with any mobile phone with BT on a high speed cell network, but Palm has only tested it with their own devices so far, which makes sense. The iPod was only compatible with the Mac when it was first launched. In the meantime, they need to stop cultivating the false impression that the phone is the Foleo's lifeline to functionality. It's not any more dependent on the phone than any other laptop is.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by ksom View Post
    I mean natively without any need of 3rd party launch programs. This may be the key factor when we look at the built-in memory space. If it can start program on the CF card just like native memory (I can tolerate a little performance), then 128MB of memory is not too bad.
    Good question. It didn't occur to me to ask, so maybe some going to next week's previews can ask. I only found out about the LA preview a couple of hours ahead of time, so I didn't have time to bring a real camera or to really think about what needed asking. So if you're in NY or DC next week, hit Palm with with questions I left out. And grab a copy of the developer sheet and post of scan of it.

    Tuesday, June 26
    NEW YORK, NY
    6:00pm 8:30pm
    Palm Retail Store
    Rockefeller Center
    New York City, NY

    Thursday, June 28
    WASHINGTON, DC
    5:00pm - 8:00pm
    Palm Retail Store
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Thanks! The second one is Avvenu - a file access service, as you said.
    www.avvenu.com

    Anyone recognize the third one?
    Found a better picture. The third one is Bluefire. They're developing a VPC client for the Foleo.
  20. kh4fun's Avatar
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    #60  
    I was just trying to get some info on avvenu and noticed that it is free on the palm tx. I wonder if palm will have it has a free app the Foleo? Has anyone ever used avvenu or known anyone who has, and if so how well does it work?
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