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  1. #21  
    Palm cannot sell this for the cost of hardware plus just a few bucks. They are developing a new platform, I am talking about hardware and software. Software costs a lot to produce. I have no idea on staffing numbers working on the new Palm OS but I do work for a software company and I know how long it takes to design, develop and test a product before it is ready for shipping. My guess is that the cost of this initial product needs to be a bit higher so as to recoup some of that lost revenue and to continue to develop the platform further.
    I think that Palm must be marketing this towards business people for now since they will use the base applications that have thus far been built for the Foleo. Palm will continue to develop the Foleo line further and I dare say will add further hardware features as the platform matures.
    I give Palm credit for giving this a go. I can really see the potential in the Foleo line of products. I come in as both a business user and hobbyist. I see it as being good for my armchair web browsing, email and note taking in meetings, but like many, I want to see more features...this is the hobbyist side of me talking now. As far as hardware is concerned, I would like to see the screen rotate 180 degrees to convert into a tablet form with a touch screen, a video camera and audio in for chat and I also want to see it play video. If the first release cannot do this then I may wait for a Foleo II, but being the Palm fan girl that I am, I might not be able to wait.
  2. akula34's Avatar
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    #22  
    It's about time. In the amount of time it would take you to turn on those subcompact notebooks everyone keeps describing, I could have whipped out my Foleo, instant on, and have written two emails. For the business user, time is money.
    I don't want to wait for my computer to boot.
    I want to work.
    I want efficiency.
    I want stability.

    And that's why I would buy the Foleo.

    Average Joe may want everything and the kitchen sink but Palm was founded on simplicity of use. It's nice to see they are getting back to their roots. Personally, I LOVE the idea of the Foleo.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
  3. tirk's Avatar
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by akula34 View Post
    It's about time. In the amount of time it would take you to turn on those subcompact notebooks everyone keeps describing, I could have whipped out my Foleo, instant on, and have written two emails. For the business user, time is money.
    I don't want to wait for my computer to boot.
    I want to work.
    I want efficiency.
    I want stability.

    And that's why I would buy the Foleo.
    Shall I say it one more time? A laptop can do "instant-on" too. Indeed, I expect most people will find standby to reading email faster on a laptop than on a Foleo, which has to synch it's email via your phone, rather than directly.

    Is "instant-on" the new "Frankie Says" or something?
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Is "instant-on" the new "Frankie Says" or something?
    "Instant on" is to the Foleo as "Unlimited Data" is to VerizonWireless: Descriptive-seeming words that don't actually apply.
  5. #25  
    Ah, now I get it...Palm is in oxymoron land...
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe View Post
    "Instant on" is to the Foleo as "Unlimited Data" is to VerizonWireless: Descriptive-seeming words that don't actually apply.
    Are you saying that Foleo isn't instant on?
  7. akula34's Avatar
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    #27  
    The folio is not designed to be a laptop. What don't you people get?? It's got a very specific purpose. You're comparing apples & oranges.
    "Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by akula34 View Post
    The folio is not designed to be a laptop. What don't you people get?? It's got a very specific purpose. You're comparing apples & oranges.
    If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

    Surur
  9. #29  
    I also feel that the Foleo is "close". It's missing one thing for me: a built-in network port. I actually started a separate thread here
  10. #30  
    I've inserted my thoughts below:


    Quote Originally Posted by kwsmith2 View Post
    Months ago when there was speculation about the new device I said:

    "What I want is a mini-thin client that I can take with me anywhere. Why can't I always have all my data with me. Thats what I want and palm has always provided what I really wanted"

    Well it seems like Foleo is on the right track.

    Instant on is a huge deal. Thats really why my Tablet PC didn't quite do it for me. I need the thing to be fast.

    No hard drive is good cause I want it to be fast. But that also means very limited storage, which conflicts with "always have all my data with me."
    However, I also would have wanted.

    1) Instant sync of everything. If its on my Treo it should be on my Foleo. And I don't want to do anything to make that happen. It should be automatic. Palm totally missed the boat on this one.

    2) There shouldn't be any storage issues with my files. I want all my files all the time. (I mean work and maybe a few pictures and music. Not whatever craziness people are keeping to fill up 20GB) 20 GB ain't very much any more, especially if you want to store and edit MS Office files. Have you looked at how big those have gotten?

    3) It should be really really light. Light compared to a laptop, but still too heavy, and too big, to carry all the time. It's going to require a case with a strap, which adds bulk and weight, and if I'm going that far while not carry a small laptop.

    4) It might be cool if I could watch a downloaded movie for a plane ride or something but this is clearly secondary. Nope, not enough storage, nor enough processor to do that. Again, Palm missed the boat.


    Here is my concept -

    My work computer does all of my heavy lifting. It stays at work basically all the time.

    My phone comes with my all the time. It has all the information I really need. All the info you need in 32 MB? Boy, I wish my work was that simple.

    My Foleo is the bridge computer that I use

    1) At home to surf and review projects. As long as your projects only involve basic MS Office docs. That's not true of mine. And heck, I already have computers and internet access (that's a lot faster than EVDO) at home.

    2) When I need to give a presentation and want to bring my on device It had better be a small presentation, given the limited storage on both Treo and Foleo.

    3) When I am in a meeting and want to take notes

    4) On the plane or in the cab to review information. Again, as long as the information is in a few basic MS Office files, 'cause nothing else will run, you won't have the storage to hold much, and your internet acess won't work..



    Basically as far as I see I could potentially get a Foleo and Treo for the price of a laptop. But its better because I don't really need everything a laptop does and my work laptop is a back buster. The Foleo would be instant on and in the version I really want, everything on my phone is instantly and seemlessly on my Foleo. For me, at least, there are going to be too many times I need software that won't run on the Foleo. Telling me the only files I can open are simple MS Office files and html files just isn't going to cut it. I need access to MS Project, to a couple of charting programs (NOT PowerPoint or Excel charts), Visual Basic apps, and more.
    My 2 cents worth. If it really works for you, great. But it isn't going to work for me. I don't want to do all my surfing at EVDO speeds when I have cable at home. I need to be able to be able to read and edit more than MS Office documents. And I need (or at least want) local storage so I can access lots of info when I'm not connected (cell phones really DON'T work everywhere.
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonRM79 View Post
    Also, it should have come with a full version of linux so people could add open office.
    Didn't JH show the linux bootup screen at the demo? I think Linux is there and eventually a lot of apps should be able to be ported over....


    Anyway, the main point here imo is the perspective of where Palm is coming from that I think most users here don't understand. Palm does not want to compete with the laptop/desktop, it wants to REPLACE IT WITH YOUR SMARTPHONE! Your future Treo or other smartphone de jour is supposed to make the laptop obsolete. The Foleo is simply supposed to complement it. Why then make the thing soo darned powerful as the emulate a pc, that would defeat the whole purpose of making your smartphone your primary pc.... I don't particularly agree with this, but am just playing the devils advocate here for Palm's reasoning...
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    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  12. #32  
    But nothing can replace a full featured computer for some. Like web designers, music and video editors, stuff like that. Maybe for a lot of people who barely even use a computer except for email and light surfing, this would work. But even then, the Asus mini-laptop is better for the price. Or even that Nokia surfer is better IMO!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    Shall I say it one more time? A laptop can do "instant-on" too. Indeed, I expect most people will find standby to reading email faster on a laptop than on a Foleo, which has to synch it's email via your phone, rather than directly.
    I expect the synchronization time over a local BT connection to be neglible, even with several megabytes of attachments. It's not as if you're connecting over http to a remote server handing dozens of simultaneous requests, unless you are dowloading directly via the Foleo on a WiFi/DUN connection, in which case you'd incur the same delay regardless of whether the Foleo was used or a laptop waking up from standby.

    I don't know if it's true with all XP/Vista laptops, but recovering from standby still involves a short lag and clicking on your user profile name, but that can probably be bypassed by changing the default powersave configuration. Modern Powerbooks are closer the Foleo's execution of instant-on, both in terms of speed (you can pretty much count to five) and, more importantly, of not requiring standby.

    When I did AV work, many presenters used to thank me for recommending switching to standby with PowerPoint loaded before going up to the podium. Most geeks would consider this obvious, but many professionals, like physicians and executives, need the standby feature expressly pointed out to them.

    Standby works fine in the context of a presentation, or when your work is interrupted and you know you'll be resuming it before long. But keeping a laptop on indefinite standy will either kill its battery life or suspend most of the system process to the point where "instant-on" takes close to a minute -- which is better than reloading the OS, but hardly instant-on in any meaningful sense.

    For me, instant-on means you can start working as soon as you hit the power button, like an appliance. That may seem pedantic, but I used to have that experience on a daily basis with a Psion Series 7, and brief periods with the Jornada 720. Those instant-on laptops were close to $1000, so their fate in the marketplace was no surprise. But users were passionate about them.

    To this day I get a twinge of disgust having to wait for an application to load or an OS to boot. I always hit the back button on my browser if I discover that the link I just clicked on is to a Flash site that has to load (I won't even click on Skip Intro); I do the same if the link turns out to be a PDF (unless I'm on a Mac, where PDFs load in one or two seconds). I no longer use Photoshop for image croping and resizing when I realized that I can launch Paint.net, edit an image and close the app in the time it takes Photoshop to load. Most people today pay a premium for broadband to avoid the sloth of dial-up.

    Instant-on (and instant application loading) is an experiential value, not a spec that's impressive on paper. Once you're used to it, you notice when it's not there. It's a different standard of device responsiveness. Imagine waiting a minute or two for the Treo to boot up. It wouldn't be acceptable, because your standard for the Treo is instant-on (not pseudo-instant, like standby). That's the benchmark for the Foleo.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by kwsmith2 View Post
    Months ago when there was speculation about the new device I said:

    "What I want is a mini-thin client that I can take with me anywhere. Why can't I always have all my data with me. Thats what I want and palm has always provided what I really wanted"

    Well it seems like Foleo is on the right track.

    Instant on is a huge deal. Thats really why my Tablet PC didn't quite do it for me. I need the thing to be fast.

    No hard drive is good cause I want it to be fast.

    However, I also would have wanted.

    1) Instant sync of everything. If its on my Treo it should be on my Foleo. And I don't want to do anything to make that happen. It should be automatic.

    2) There shouldn't be any storage issues with my files. I want all my files all the time. (I mean work and maybe a few pictures and music. Not whatever craziness people are keeping to fill up 20GB)

    3) It should be really really light.

    4) It might be cool if I could watch a downloaded movie for a plane ride or something but this is clearly secondary.


    Here is my concept -

    My work computer does all of my heavy lifting. It stays at work basically all the time.

    My phone comes with my all the time. It has all the information I really need.

    My Foleo is the bridge computer that I use

    1) At home to surf and review projects.

    2) When I need to give a presentation and want to bring my on device

    3) When I am in a meeting and want to take notes

    4) On the plane or in the cab to review information.



    Basically as far as I see I could potentially get a Foleo and Treo for the price of a laptop. But its better because I don't really need everything a laptop does and my work laptop is a back buster. The Foleo would be instant on and in the version I really want, everything on my phone is instantly and seemlessly on my Foleo.
    Am I right in understanding that YOU are the reason for this product and are willing to accept the blame?! *calls lawyers*
  15. tirk's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    I expect the synchronization time over a local BT connection to be neglible, even with several megabytes of attachments. It's not as if you're connecting over http to a remote server handing dozens of simultaneous requests, unless you are dowloading directly via the Foleo on a WiFi/DUN connection, in which case you'd incur the same delay regardless of whether the Foleo was used or a laptop waking up from standby.
    I'm not so sure. BT 1 maxes at 700kb/s, so transfers would take at least 13s per mB. Then there's the extra levels of software involved with two devices, and unless you are running Chatter or the like, you likely will need to set the Treo downloading the email first. In practice, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't take a minute or more to actually get, from device off, a 1mB email attachment to view mode on a Foleo.

    And of course my laptop happens to be 3G, whereas my Treo 680 isn't.

    I do appreciate these are all subject to many individual variations, but I just get totally p*ss*d off that some people here accept marketing-speak features like "instant-on" like it's the second coming!
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  16. #36  
    its more like, you keep making excuses for palm, keep making reasons why you should buy a foleo.

    just give us a good wifi capable palm os treo, no need for these underwhelming products.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    I'm not so sure. BT 1 maxes at 700kb/s, so transfers would take at least 13s per mB. Then there's the extra levels of software involved with two devices, and unless you are running Chatter or the like, you likely will need to set the Treo downloading the email first. In practice, I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't take a minute or more to actually get, from device off, a 1mB email attachment to view mode on a Foleo.

    And of course my laptop happens to be 3G, whereas my Treo 680 isn't.
    Yeah, you're probably right about the transfer time. It wouldn't have any impact on me personally, since I only get an occasional mp3 sent to me via email, but I'll concede the point.

    I do appreciate these are all subject to many individual variations, but I just get totally p*ss*d off that some people here accept marketing-speak features like "instant-on" like it's the second coming!
    Palm is just a company, not a church whose cathechism determines its followers' well being. If the Foleo does truly suck, if it tanks in the markeplace and takes Palm with it, the world will still turn. All the spleen over an inanimate object is incomprehensible.

    Nowhere has Palm implied that instant-on is a spiritual experience. They cite it because it's a unique feature lacking in most laptops (modern Powerbooks are the notable exception). Hawkins & Co. mention the feature when asked "How is the different than a laptop?" Look up user reviews of the old Jornada 720 on Amazon and see how frequently "instant-on" tops the list of reason to own one.

    At least it's an honest feature, not "You can have any color so long as it's black" or "You can have third party apps through Web 2.0."
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