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  1. BQ91's Avatar
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    #61  
    I asked Palm does not have anything official in Austin. But Austin is a hotbed for Linux Software Programers FWIW. I have a few clients that are Linux writers for fortune 500 teams right here in Austin, TX. Lots of Software freelance types are here. I think he Works for Palm from his Home here in Austin. I asked if Palm had an office here in Austin, where the Foleo could be shown, but they don't.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot View Post
    If they can get Google Maps working on this I think that will be another application that will help drive sales. I use it on my Treo all the time but the screen is so dang small that sometimes it really doesn't help. Especially for areas of town that I'm not real familiar with. The street names are so small it's very difficult to read them. To get my bearings I need to zoom out at which point the street names are unreadable. Having the instant on will of course help make using this even more useful.
    The Foleos I saw didn't have a Google Maps app, but address in mDayscape have a Map button that launches the Google Maps website in Opera. It's not as fast as a dedicated, browserless app (at least through DUN,), but it does solve the readability issue.
  3. #63  
    Personally I'd prefer something along the lines of the Nokia n800 if I wanted a companion, but didn't want to bring a laptop. Call it an oversimplified version of that Sony that's grossly overpriced. Something running a somewhat open software platform and something that can help further future development of the linux treo.

    If this is the first iteration of the Linux version of palm, then wouldn't it be in the best interests of third party developers to start working on apps so that when the linux treo is released, there won't be as much lag time for new 3rd party apps to appear? Or am I missing something in all that?
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  4. #64  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra
    But the Foleo does not appear to be aesthetically pleasing in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    That was my feeling about the Razr.
    I also was not impressed by the RAZR (neither the design nor the software), but then again, I never wore bell bottom jeans either. But phones are fashion statements that are carried everywhere in public. I don't see many people toting 2.5 pound laptops as a fashion statement, do you?
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickDG View Post
    I really don't understand why there is so much hate for the Foleo. I think it is brilliant and will sell very well once people see other people using it, just like the first Palm Pilot.

    I have tons of friends who aren't tech savy at all and all they want is a computer that does e-mail and web. This would be perfect for them. Simple, light, and small. Something you could easily take with you, like a real folio.

    All the people who talk about how a laptop is a better choice don't understand the common consumer. The common consumer doesn't care about the specs, how much ram it has, etc. They just want an easy to use product. Form before function.

    Only problem is that with its current software, the Foleo:

    Can't "do email" without first linking up with a Treo.

    And it can't do a lot of multimedia on the Web (like YouTube).

    And it can't do tabbed browsing.

    Newbie users are best served by products that "just work". Right now the Foleo appears to be a merely a work in progress.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Dude! No more bullcrap. Does it:
    1) comes with any calendar app that can sync with the Treo
    2) comes with any mp3 and video playback software
    3) offer any way to open two browser windows at the same time?
    4) comes with a half way decent pdf reader?
    5) offer any kind of POS5 emulation like ALP was trying to do
    6) or Jave runime environment?

    I don't want you to start a blog to get in touch with the users, just come right out and answer these questions and I am happy.
    I think you're going to scare the poor little critter off with such honest, direct questions like that. I hear Palm Foleo development team members are a tad skittish (gunshy?) these days.

    Palm's old PDAs used to ship with no extra software and for years the excuse Palm used was something about the "Zen of Palm" and not wanting to take business away from its "precious" third-party developers. Eventually, we found out that that was all nonsense, since Palm later shipped applications like MultiMail, VersaMail, Documents To Go, Pocket Tunes, Bejeweled, etc. with its devices. I'm disappointed to hear that Palm appears to be trying to pull the same kind of game by initially shipping the Foleo with a really weak software package and expecting users to fill in the gaping holes by buying additional software.





    Quote Originally Posted by newtonjack View Post
    Ben
    [Ben Combee's] profile says you are in Austin TX, I didnt know Palm had facilities there?
    I believe Ben telecommutes and also makes regular trips to Sunnyvale.




    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot View Post
    You're still assuming that the common consumer understands the specs. From my experience helping many friends and family members they don't understand the difference between storage and memory. Once you've thrown 2-3 things to consider at them their eyes glaze over and they're ready to just buy what you tell them would be good for them. However, I agree that the $500 price tag is pretty steep given the limitations as we know them right now. If the next gen Foleo beefs up the hardware I think they'll have the success they seek. Of course that assumes the Foleo survives long enough to have a second gen.
    First of all, what's the real price of a Foleo? $500? $600 when the promotional discount expires? $900 once you add in the cost of PIM apps, media player, file access program, CompactFlash card necessary to expand program memory beyond the paltry 128 MB it ships with, etc?

    I think the Foleo's biggest problem is that it doesn't seem to do enough of the things that a typical user wants to do. If a $600 laptop is missing an important feature (e.g. YouTube or full multimedia support) then the only ones that will be willing to rationalize losing out on those features are power users looking for light weight and who don't routinely NEED any Windows-only apps. By definition, that's gotta be a pretty tiny niche for Palm to be catering to. The first time Joe Sixpack buys a Foleo from CompUSA/Circuit City/Best Buy, comes home and finds out the Foleo can't do "x, y or z", the Foleo is going to get boxed up + returned for a small HP/Dell/etc. laptop. I wonder how happy retailers would be having to spend a lot of time EDUCATING customers about the Foleo in the hopes of avoiding returns.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    I also was not impressed by the RAZR (neither the design nor the software), but then again, I never wore bell bottom jeans either. But phones are fashion statements that are carried everywhere in public. I don't see many people toting 2.5 pound laptops as a fashion statement, do you?
    Hence my original comment about aesthetic and ergonomic factors as a driving force. I wouldn't call the Palm V a fashion statement, but clearly it had some magic elixir of aesthetics and ergonomics that drove people to pony up $200 more for it than the Palm III with exactly the same specs. If the Foleo turns out to have any traction in the marketplace, I think it will come from people's experience of the size, weight and professional finish or the product, not from the abstract cost/benefit analysis routinely committed by intellectuals.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    First of all, what's the real price of a Foleo? $500? $600 when the promotional discount expires? $900 once you add in the cost of PIM apps, media player, file access program, CompactFlash card necessary to expand program memory beyond the paltry 128 MB it ships with, etc?

    I think the Foleo's biggest problem is that it doesn't seem to do enough of the things that a typical user wants to do. If a $600 laptop is missing an important feature (e.g. YouTube or full multimedia support) then the only ones that will be willing to rationalize losing out on those features are power users looking for light weight and who don't routinely NEED any Windows-only apps. By definition, that's gotta be a pretty tiny niche for Palm to be catering to. The first time Joe Sixpack buys a Foleo from CompUSA/Circuit City/Best Buy, comes home and finds out the Foleo can't do "x, y or z", the Foleo is going to get boxed up + returned for a small HP/Dell/etc. laptop. I wonder how happy retailers would be having to spend a lot of time EDUCATING customers about the Foleo in the hopes of avoiding returns.
    This is similar to what I've been saying!! And if it does end up to almost $900, this will definitely be a no-go for me! I'm already looking at new FULL laptops in the same price range.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gameboy70 View Post
    Hence my original comment about aesthetic and ergonomic factors as a driving force. I wouldn't call the Palm V a fashion statement, but clearly it had some magic elixir of aesthetics and ergonomics that drove people to pony up $200 more for it than the Palm III with exactly the same specs. If the Foleo turns out to have any traction in the marketplace, I think it will come from people's experience of the size, weight and professional finish or the product, not from the abstract cost/benefit analysis routinely committed by intellectuals.
    Do you REALLY think the Palm V sold because of ergonomics? Not to ANYONE I met that owned one. The vast majority of people I've met bought them because:

    a) The Palm V looked "cool" and made the same kind of fashion statement that RAZRs used to make when they first came out (i.e. before mall rats, slack-jawed yokels and the homeless woman living in the dumpster outside your office all had RAZRs).
    b) PDAs in general were a fad/fashion statement back in 1999-2001.
    c) It was actually a useful device.

    The Palm V ergonomics actually sucked compared to the old Palm III form factor. The Palm V was more difficult to hold and write with. Like the Foleo, the Palm V's main advantage was its smaller size/weight* vs. the Palm III.
    Of course, the Palm V wasn't even Palm's own design:

    *and a better screen

    http://www.ideo.com/portfolio/re.asp?x=50008

    Palm lacks the fashion sense/industrial design ability of Apple. People lust after the iPhone, iPod, nano, Macbook, etc. because Apple's products are perceived to look cool and be cool. Sorry, but the Foleo ain't no iPhone.

    If Apple had come out with a nicely-styled "iFolio" or "Newton II" I think people would be lining up to buy it. Then again, Apple wouldn't have dropped the ball on the software end of things and left it up to third party developers to save its bacon. We would have browser, email, multimedia, remote access and PIM apps that SIMPLY WORK with no fuss. I think Apple's a rather sleazy company, but at least they know better than to try and get away with what Palm appears to be doing.
    Last edited by The_Chupacabra; 06/28/2007 at 12:41 AM.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    This is similar to what I've been saying!! And if it does end up to almost $900, this will definitely be a no-go for me! I'm already looking at new FULL laptops in the same price range.


    OK, I copied you.

  11. #71  
    I think the additional cost of software depends on individual need. I know a lot of users they are using pda (wm & Palm) without spending a single cents in software.

    Some of the software people think it is a "must have" but I have different view points. For example

    Calendar / Contact- Most of the time I use the Calendar in my phone more than Outlook in my laptop and desktop. (I won't take out my laptop to check calendar / contact information.)

    Music Player - I use my iPod most of the time. I never use the media player in my laptop and desktop. Even my Treo can do this but I am still using iPod.

    Instant Messenger - I use msn in my phone as sometimes I will away from my desk or in public transport. (it defeats the purpose of instant messenger, if it limits me to use in certain places.)

    Brower (No Tab / You Tube) - It is good to have but not a big deal. As I suppose to use Foleo in short trip (2 to 3 days) / meeting / on the road. For long trip (over a week, definitely will carry a light weight laptop) At home / office, I can use the desktop.

    VPN software - I have a 16GB USB thumb drive. I don't need to use VPN software to access my data in my home pc / office pc / laptop. (Frankly speaking, less than 1G of data is important. It is because I have 16G, therefore I fill it up.)

    Games - I play games in my Treo. It is more easy to play game in handheld than a laptop or computer.

    Expensive - Very subjective. HTC Flame sells around US$1k. How about OQO, Sony and Samsung Q1, Sony Ebook reader...etc. Why nobody complain the price? Too be fair, when compare Foleo to laptop, people should use the ultraportable model PLUS the M$ software cost. PLEASE don't compare the hardware specification, we are users we only concern the performance and the functionality. (A good example is Treo 750 (samsung 300) performance is a lot better than a lot of pocketpc with 412mHz or above.) (I own a HP Tablet using Duo Core 1.6GHz but it is slower than my Dell x300 Centrino 1.2GHz.)

    Of coures, it all depends the need of individuals. I only tell you how I use my Treo and computers. It doesn't mean your usage are the same. The same logic applied to "I won't buy doesn't mean other won't buy".
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    Do you REALLY think the Palm V sold because of ergonomics?
    Absolutely. It actually did fit in your shirt pocket, not just in theory, and overall it was just lighter.
    Not to ANYONE I met that owned one.
    We travel in different circles. The people I knew who owned them were mostly professionals who would have been embarassed to carry the previous Palms, preferring Franklin Planners instead. At least where I lived, it wasn't until the iPaq hit the streets that conspicuous consumption drove people to self-consciously whip out their PDAs at the first opportunity.

    The vast majority of people I've met bought them because:

    a) The Palm V looked "cool" and made the same kind of fashion statement that RAZRs used to make when they first came out (i.e. before mall rats, slack-jawed yokels and the homeless woman living in the dumpster outside your office all had RAZRs).
    b) PDAs in general were a fad/fashion statement back in 1999-2001.
    c) It was actually a useful device.
    Sorry, I have a different idea of what constitutes fashion statements. In my experience it was just a popular tool that, like most popular tools, a vocal minority obsesses over, especially online. On the street, most of the interaction I saw between Palm Vs and their owners was pretty mundane.

    The Palm V ergonomics actually sucked compared to the old Palm III form factor. The Palm V was more difficult to hold and write with.
    You lost me again there. I much preferred resting my fingertips against the V's tapered edge to the squarish profile of the III.
    Like the Foleo, the Palm V's main advantage was its smaller size/weight* vs. the Palm III.
    True, as acknowledged above.
    Of course, the Palm V wasn't even Palm's own design
    Palm has never released a product, good or bad, whose design wasn't outsourced. Palm wanted to hire Ideo for the Pilot, but couldn't afford them, having only $3m in startup capital to spread around. After a couple of devices successful enough to attract attention from Redmond, Hawkins knew that the only was to compete the Microsoft's new "PalmPC" WinCE devices (subsequently changed to Pocket PC in short order), he would have to bite the bullet a pay for Ideo to design a product cool enough to distract customers from noticing that it had no new features, except . . .

    a better screen
    True. The improved screen is how I rationalized to myself that "upgrading" the Palm V was a practical decision

    Palm lacks the fashion sense/industrial design ability of Apple. People lust after the iPhone, iPod, nano, Macbook, etc. because Apple's products are perceived to look cool and be cool. Sorry, but the Foleo ain't no iPhone.
    No question, Apple has cool through the roof. When I'm in the market for my next laptop, it's probably going to be a Powerbook (not the Macbook, whose design I hate) for reasons including but not limited to the cool factor. But if I we're moving on from the Treo, I'd rather get an HTCT than an iPhone that discriminates against developers.

    If Apple had come out with a nicely-styled "iFolio" or "Newton II" I think people would be lining up to buy it. Then again, Apple wouldn't have dropped the ball on the software end of things and left it up to third party developers to save its bacon. We would have browser, email, multimedia, remote access and PIM apps that SIMPLY WORK with no fuss. I think Apple's a rather sleazy company, but at least they know better than to try and get away with what Palm appears to be doing.
    There would be no third party developers for the iFoleo. There would only be Web 2.0.

    At any rate, hypothetical products are developed with unlimited resources. Until the iFoleo hits the streets, enjoy your laptop!
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    OK, I copied you.

    I just meant that we are thinking in the same direction.
    The Foleo's $600 price tag vs. true value remains yet to be proven.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. TxDot's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by GFONG View Post
    ...Games - I play games in my Treo. It is more easy to play game in handheld than a laptop or computer...
    Actually this is the most important question of all. What kind of games are included on the Foleo? C'mon bcombee cut the crap, which games are included?
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  15. TxDot's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Chupacabra View Post
    ...First of all, what's the real price of a Foleo? $500? $600 when the promotional discount expires? $900 once you add in the cost of PIM apps, media player, file access program, CompactFlash card necessary to expand program memory beyond the paltry 128 MB it ships with, etc?...
    The real price is what I pay for it at the time. My decision to add additional software is just that, my decision. It's not Palm's and can't be blamed on them. I know some folks will but I don't think that's fair. BTW, this same argument has been made about the Treo and yet it has sold very well.

    I would like to see the hardware beefed up so that third party types can make new hardware and software that will extend the Foleo beyond what Palm may have envisioned. Actually I'd like for the device to be upgradeable by the end user so that we wouldn't have to wait for new devices and pay for it. Just like with a desktop, if you're willing to pop the case and upgrade a few components you can put off buying a new system for several years. However the likelihood of this is probably nil.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    • TC had mentioned that the Foleo was powered by a few repurposed Treo batteries. Are there really three individual Treo batteries in the Foleo?
    • About how long do the batteries last with WiFi and bluetooth turned off?
    • How long does it take to make the BT connection (and connect to the Internet) once it's turned on?
    • When you use a smartphone's Internet connection, does it look (to the carrier) like a laptop tethering?

    Thanks.
    It's just one battery module. Battery life is five hours plus with BT and WiFi on, better with them turned off, but I don't have any official numbers. I've used mine on a three hour plane ride with wireless off and had the battery drop from 90% to 70%, but screen brightness also affects this.

    Using a BT internet connection is pretty quick, but not as quick as WiFi. It depends more on the latency of the wireless operator than anything in the BT stack. The connection does look like laptop tethering.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7 View Post
    Dude! No more bullcrap. Does it:
    1) comes with any calendar app that can sync with the Treo
    2) comes with any mp3 and video playback software
    3) offer any way to open two browser windows at the same time?
    4) comes with a half way decent pdf reader?
    5) offer any kind of POS5 emulation like ALP was trying to do
    6) or Jave runime environment?

    I don't want you to start a blog to get in touch with the users, just come right out and answer these questions and I am happy.
    What I can answer right now:

    1) At this time, there are no PIM applications standard on the device. Motion App's mDayscape will be available at launch to do calendar, tasks, and contacts.
    2) No direct MP3 or Video Playback, although MP3 playback through the browser's Flash plugin from sites like MySpace does work.
    3) You can't officially run multiple Web Browser instances, but there is a unsupported hack that can be used to get this going.
    4) Yes, there's a nice PDF Reader. I've been using it to read ebooks from Fictionwise.
    5/6) Those are SDK questions, can't talk about that now.
  18. #78  
    Wow, you actually answer my questions. Thank you!
  19. #79  
    1....not that I read all the Palm V posts, but I loved my Vx. I kept my Palm Pro until I upgraded to the Vx. It went everywhere with me. All the memory I needed at the time, great screen and loved the ergonomics compared to all the previous palms. I did try a III for a bit, but I stuck with my Pro ultimately. Great product and the last Palm product I bought until the Treo 270 (think that was the #). And.....my sister still uses my Vx. She even uses it more than the Blackberry she has. Go figure.

    2. Can't run more than one browser at a time? You must be joking. even my Nokia n770 can do that. It can also do video and sound on it's own, not just through flash. It can also be a USB host so I can create a workaround to power a thumbdrive or USB hard drive and have access to 4gigs or 160 gigs of memory on a little handheld.

    The more I hear about the Foleo, the more limited I believe it is for all the hoopla that has surrounded it. And for its overall size, I really don't see the purpose if multitasking is still that limited. While it is supposed to be a companion to smartphones, it should be able to do just as much as one as a standalone. To have to break out the phone every time I need to do something the foleo can't is just a joke for the price it's coming in at.

    If the foleo is any sign of what the linux treo is going to be or can be, I don't have much confidence in palm. And after the debacle of the 700p, I didn't have much left to begin with. It sounds like the public is going to be used as beta testers for a palm product yet again.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  20. #80  
    Some said: PIM apps that SIMPLY WORK from Apple


    They could not make Tasks and Notes work on the iPhone, nor they work better than Outlook in the PC (ical, mail.app)

    Apple has no Notes as this write, and there is no plan for those on the iPhone either, so what kind of PIM apps we are talking here...
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