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  1. zeze22's Avatar
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       #1  
    ...the overwhelming majority of PDA users do not spend very much energy thinking about their PDA, which is really the point of having a PDA.

    For people on this board, however, PDA's provide more than just a convenient way to plan, communicate and surf the net- they are a more active and central presence in their lives.

    Forget whether that's good or bad- just understand that this is not an accurate place to gauge reactions of the general PDA-buying public.

    Most people (including me) do not think Palm is behind the times. They have a great OS that is effective and extremely easy to use. No need to fix what isn't broken.

    While not changing for a couple of years may feel like lack of progress to the Treocentral bubble, it really isn't because the OS didnt need much tweaking.

    I mean the WM5 and WM6 devotees actually chide Palm OS for its simpliciy and convenience, forgetting that's what non-bubble people want in a PDA: Simplicity and ease of use for business hours.

    Enter the Foleo- the people on this board slamming this device as a retro machine are telling intellectual half-truths for the sake of criticism.

    What makes this thing way different from a laptop is price and convenience, and it will sell as just that. The "always on" feature is perfect for people on the go (lawyers, salesmen, etc) who need to work on the fly to fill in waiting time. Likewise, the better battery life.

    It's not meant to be a laptop, with two-hours of light battery use and two-minute boot-ups. And I think many people will appreciate that.
  2. #2  
    This guy had an initial negative reaction (with the same criticisms floating around here and elsewhere) but did a complete 180 when he had a chance to handle the Foleo. Then he had the "Ah-ha!" moment:

    http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9724090-1.html

    I owe an apology to my lunch companions at D5. When conversation turned to the Palm Foleo, I said it was a terrible idea. Overpriced, underfeatured, and too close to the well-established laptop market.

    That was before I got my hands on one. It took me only a few minutes to develop a desire to get one of these for myself. This is partly because I tried the product while my back was straining from the messenger bag carrying my Thinkpad. The Foleo is tiny and light, yet big enough to hold a full keyboard and a nice screen.
  3. #3  
    I guess you did not see the reaction of the rest of the tech reporting community either then. Most people who know anything thinks the current implementation is massively flawed. And if you think its perfect for the grannies of the world, well, they are not the ones likely to buy the latest tech toy.

    Surur
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    And if you think its perfect for the grannies of the world, well, they are not the ones likely to buy the latest tech toy.

    Surur
    You're right, they don't..
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
    Yes, and this device does not pass muster even with enthusiasts.

    Surur
  6. zeze22's Avatar
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    I guess you did not see the reaction of the rest of the tech reporting community either then. Most people who know anything thinks the current implementation is massively flawed. And if you think its perfect for the grannies of the world, well, they are not the ones likely to buy the latest tech toy.

    Surur
    Well, I guess you prove my point: I write "non-Treocentral posters" and you read "Grannies..." There is, in between, and I never though I'd quote Nixon under any circumstances, the "silent majority" of pda users.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Yes, and this device does not pass muster even with enthusiasts.

    Surur
    Sorry, I didn't prove your point.

    Here's a question: What technology is being compared to the 3 phases though?

    The Foleo or an ultra-portable computing device with a large screen and keyboard?

    I submit that traditional ultra-portables are within the third phase, but they have several shortcomings that take the user out of the center and are designed more around the OS. The Foleo turns this on its head and doesn't need to go through the first two phases, due in large part to the power of having an always on, ubiquitous, high speed connection to the web in your pocket. The market is already in the third phase.
  8. #8  
    Actually traditional large laptops are the ones who have passed through all the phases, and are now seeing mass adoption, with low prices and high sales. sub-notebooks, and UMPC's are still used by enthusiasts, and the Foleo has not even been released yet.

    Surur
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by zeze22 View Post
    Well, I guess you prove my point: I write "non-Treocentral posters" and you read "Grannies..." There is, in between, and I never though I'd quote Nixon under any circumstances, the "silent majority" of pda users.
    I said tech reporters who are non-treocentral readers. They are also the Foleo demographic, and they pan the device.

    Surur
  10. #10  
    There is no such thing as "PDA market", the PDA market has disappeared in the last two years.
  11. #11  
    Here's a balanced article.

    Foleo critics can't see the forest for the Treos
    By John Chan
    1/6/2007

    commentary Palm's cellular companion device may not be what the company's fans were hoping for, but that could very well be the point.

    There are a few technology companies which enjoy loyalty from a core group of users. Apple immediately comes to mind, and Palm, too. Certainly, Palm does not get the same undying devotion Mac users give to Apple. Even then, fan message boards show that users still stick up for the handheld device manufacturer even if it seems to be declining. It is thus sobering to see the amount of stick that Palm is getting on these same fan sites because of the newly launched Foleo.

    The Foleo was announced by Jeff Hawkins, founder of Palm, on Wednesday. It is a companion device that looks very much like an ultraportable notebook. It is meant to make creating and editing emails and documents easier because devices like the Treo have small screens.

    The 1.13kg Foleo turns on instantly, syncs quickly with a Treo, makes Web browsing more enjoyable while on-the-go, and is a horrible piece of junk that needs to be stuffed back down the throats of its designers or used to cover a landfill, depending on how many Foleos Palm manages to excrete out of its rear end. That, in a nutshell, sums up what the majority of vocal Palm loyalists are saying, with some even heralding this as the beginning of the end. Even when Palm decided to sacrilegiously mate a Treo with a Windows Mobile OS, fans understood that it was due to market demand. So why no sympathy this time?

    It's the feeling that Palm is not listening. What users have been asking for for ages is a Treo that has both 3G and Wi-Fi and a slimmer form factor while retaining the ease of use it is famed for. And after waiting so long for Hawkins' secret project, what did they get? A laptop which isn't quite a laptop, and one that costs US$599--the price of some low-end laptops, the real kind. What's more, it doesn't look all that desirable in the way that Sony VAIOs and Apple notebooks are.

    What many don't see, is that even though the demonstration of the Foleo was done with a Palm OS Treo, it is meant to be used with many other operating systems. Its press release states that "most smartphones based on Windows Mobile should work with little or no modification", and that "operating systems from Research in Motion, Apple, and Symbian likely can be supported with a modest software effort".

    According to IDC, in the Asia-Pacific region alone, 1.8 million converged Windows Mobile devices have been shipped in 2006. BlackBerry devices are also plentiful, amounting to 241,000 devices. The worldwide figures are certainly much higher, and if this mobile companion does get supported by the iPhone, we are talking about a huge possible market. A full keyboard and display will certainly appeal to a small group of Windows Mobile and BlackBerry users, and let's not forget the biggest complaint about the iPhone--lack of tactile feedback when typing--a gap the Foleo might just fill.

    Let's take it a little further: What if the Symbian OS follows? Nokia's Series 60 and Sony Ericsson's UIQ devices will complete the circle. Even if a tiny percentage of all the mentioned OS users bite, Palm might have a bestseller on its hands.

    Optimism aside, the real challenge for Palm is getting the various platforms interested in the Foleo. The ground that it is treading on is where many devices have met painful deaths, and they live on today only in lists with titles like "Top 5 gadget flops of the decade". It wants to do what the UMPC is trying to achieve with a smaller price tag, and with speed and intuitiveness as its strengths. It's tough being the in-betweener of increasingly advanced cellular handsets and the laptop, but somebody has to succeed some day--or finally find out that no one wants such a midpoint device. Either way, Palm has started on this path, and we will soon see how that works out.

    The Foleo is not about the Treos, there's a bigger picture here. But ultimately, phone users have to buy into the idea of carrying a semi-laptop and developers need to support it. In the meantime, Palm should use recyclable materials to make it--so at least if the critics are right, the landfills can be spared the consequences.
    http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handhel...2017773,00.htm

    Surur
  12. #12  
    I have to say, I've begun to warm to the idea of the Foleo. My disdain for the Foleo centered around 3 items:

    • Lack of investment in Treo lineup - why couldn't Palm have developed a slimmer lighter device? Why can't they release the 700p update? Palm claimed this will free Palm to making alternate form factors, how about announcing one to go along with the Foleo?
    • Failure to make Foleo a better standalone device for the prosumer market
    • Price - $600 is too high for what you get (under $300 would be more like it)


    I think I understand why Palm has said the world revolves around the smartphone. PalmOS is getting locked out of the corporate world which is centralizing on Blackberry and WM. Without widespread corporate support for the Treo, it will retreat to the prosumer market. PalmOS is losing the war. Palm won't be able to crack into the laptop market, they don't have the size or scale to be a sustainable player. So how can they tap into the corporate market? By "centering" around the smartphone. They'll never convince IT shops to buy this thing (yet another platform...), but they can get the road warriors to buy it and the IT groups can't do anything about it because it doesn't actually connect to the corporate network. The Blackberry users can then skip the laptop more frequently. The Foleo is Palm's attempt to outflank the onslaught of better, cheaper, non-Palm devices.

    Now that I understand the vision, and see some utility in it, the idea behind the Foleo is growing. But ultimately, the problem with the Foleo is that there are more promises on what it could do than what it is delivering. Apple understands that the total user experience counts most, but Palm has delivered us an idea and not much more. And this takes us to price: they shouldn't charge a price for what hasn't been delivered - they shouldn't make the users gamble on the as-yet undelivered connectivity that could make the Foleo a neat device.
  13. #13  
    I agree with your assessment, as I mentioned elsewhere, Palm is solving their own problems, not those of its users.

    Surur
  14. #14  
    I got my Treo 700p last June. At that time I was attached at the hip to my Acer laptop. If I went, it went. Over time I started noticing that my Acer was spending more time at home alone. I love it when I use it, but mainly I live out of my Treo.

    After reading most of the posts leading up to big reveal, I too was fired up by the imaginative ideas suggested by intelligent, knowledgeable people who use the Palm devices. My first impression of the Foleo was ''WHAT'' and then I started thinking about what I actually do on my computer. As an administrative type I use word processing, a spreadsheet, presentation software and read and respond to endless email. My career specific software is on the network not on my PC or personal laptop.

    Although I do have a few other fun things on my laptop, much of the software is spyware, malware, firewall related. I do my taxes, banking, and some investing on-line.

    Would I like to have an always on device with unlimited storage to do office suite apps, surf the web and read email? You bet! My
    Treo 700p has shown me how to live without the PC or laptop always available. I'm ready to see the Foleo.

    I love the Treo but when I show it to others for email use the first thing they comment on is the size of the screen and the type. Maybe 2.5 pounds will be the answer.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    Yes, and this device does not pass muster even with enthusiasts.

    Surur
    Apparently, it is passing muster with some enthusiasts in the Slashdot crowd who can see the appeal of a Linux-based device like the Foleo.

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9443/#133045
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by ballistic View Post
    Apparently, it is passing muster with some enthusiasts in the Slashdot crowd who can see the appeal of a Linux-based device like the Foleo.

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/comments/9443/#133045
    As David says:

    Of course, SlashDot really *is* the group that want a Foleo for themselves. They've been craving a cheap, lightweight, Linux PC for so long that they've even cast glances at Negroponte's OLPC. Now that's desperation!
    At 5 mod point level, the majority of the comments are disparaging.

    Surur
  17. #17  
    Sorry, but the ignorance of the posters <cough>ttcoupe</cough> who actually support this device proves that it's only those who think this is a good idea that are the ones living in a bubble.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    At 5 mod point level, the majority of the comments are disparaging.
    That tells you that the mods don't like the Foleo.

    Also two of the three negative comments are stupid - Hawkins selling shares and Foleo being a closed system.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    That tells you that the mods don't like the Foleo.

    Also two of the three negative comments are stupid - Hawkins selling shares and Foleo being a closed system.
    The mods represent the silent majority, and I'm sure most of the positive points are also stupid and uninformed.

    Surur
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    The mods represent the silent majority, and I'm sure most of the positive points are also stupid and uninformed.

    Surur
    Most of the positive points are along the lines of, "I could use a device like this."

    As for the mods, they aren't elected AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK, $so$ $they$ $don$'$t$ $represent$ $anyone$.
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