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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    I never said the Foleo was great. In fact, I was very disappointed that they didn't come out with something truly revolutionary.

    But I think most of the arguments against it are unreasonable. Comparing the 2 lb Foleo to 5 lb laptops is silly. Comparing the Foleo, which has a full-size keyboard and large screen, to a tiny UMPC is silly. Comparing a $500 device to a $2500 device is silly. Assuming that anyone who thinks the Foleo isn't the worst thing in the world must be an employee is retarded.

    Making devices entails lots of trade-offs, and not everyone values the same things. It's fine that you don't want this product. Most companies make many products that I don't want. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a market need for them.

    The market need for this is SO NICHE, that it didn't warrant the hype and secrecy leading up to this- that is why the backlash is so huge.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    I would recommend taking a look at the Thinkpad X31. It's an older model, but it compares favorably to the FOLEO.
    My former Thinkpad X40 was only 2.8lbs with 1.4 GHZ processor, 1.5gb ram, and a 12" screen on the best keyboard made. They can be had on eBay for $450-650 even now. My replacment Sony SZ430N is a whopping 4.2lbs with 13" wide screen, 2.0GHZ Core2Duo, 2GB ram, a DVD-RW, and a Cingular EDGE radio built in (1.25" at the thickest point). Sure, it cost $1950 on sale through Circuit City, but comparing on price only is like compaing New York City to Toledo; you get what you pay for.

    And when I use my Blackjack with HSDPA tethered to a real processor, it truly is a broadband experience.

    Palm is performing ritual suicide in front of the entire planet.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss View Post
    My former Thinkpad X40 was only 2.8lbs with 1.4 GHZ processor, 1.5gb ram, and a 12" screen on the best keyboard made. They can be had on eBay for $450-650 even now. My replacment Sony SZ430N is a whopping 4.2lbs with 13" wide screen, 2.0GHZ Core2Duo, 2GB ram, a DVD-RW, and a Cingular EDGE radio built in (1.25" at the thickest point).
    Vista! Bwahahahaha Strauss, you're killing me!

    (oh, i'm sorry....wrong forum. )
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by frank-barnett View Post
    The market need for this is SO NICHE, that it didn't warrant the hype and secrecy leading up to this- that is why the backlash is so huge.
    I understand the backlash. As I said, I was disappointed too. I wanted (but wasn't honestly expecting to get) a next-generation device that would do everything the Treo did and more.

    As for the Foleo's niche, most people here seem to believe that NO ONE will buy it.

    If Palm gets the Foleo to work with Blackberries, iPhones, and all WinMo phones, I think the market potential could be pretty reasonable.
  5. #25  
    Well, it's 2.5lbs and the Thinkpad X-series is about 3.5lbs. And an older X-series can be had for well under $1000. I just checked the Lenovo site, and the latest model (X61) can be had for as little as $1050 brand new. That's a 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo and 60GB HD.

    I just don't see how this FOLEO can sell in volume at $500-600.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    I never said the Foleo was great. In fact, I was very disappointed that they didn't come out with something truly revolutionary.

    But I think most of the arguments against it are unreasonable. Comparing the 2 lb Foleo to 5 lb laptops is silly. Comparing the Foleo, which has a full-size keyboard and large screen, to a tiny UMPC is silly. Comparing a $500 device to a $2500 device is silly. Assuming that anyone who thinks the Foleo isn't the worst thing in the world must be an employee is retarded.

    Making devices entails lots of trade-offs, and not everyone values the same things. It's fine that you don't want this product. Most companies make many products that I don't want. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a market need for them.
    Finally some sense among a crowd of dissapointed fanboys that wanted a next gen Treo. Given it is a niche product but so was the Treo 180. This is no iPod but I don't see the Palm ship sinking yet. BTW the Kohjinsha SA1 is at least $1000 with no US support.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    Well, it's 2.5lbs and the Thinkpad X-series is about 3.5lbs. And an older X-series can be had for well under $1000. I just checked the Lenovo site, and the latest model (X61) can be had for as little as $1050 brand new. That's a 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo and 60GB HD.

    I just don't see how this FOLEO can sell in volume at $500-600.
    Maybe I'm missing something, but I see the X61 for $1600 on the Lenovo site.
  8. #28  
    It's under "Special Offers". Try this link. Sorry...I didn't mean to turn this into a Thinkpad discussion.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R View Post
    I just don't see how this FOLEO can sell in volume at $500-600.
    It won't, and from Jeff's comments on the webcast it doesn't appear that he expects it to either.
  10. #30  
    You can get laptops that weigh a whopping pound more than the FOLEO on Tiger Direct for a grand or less... I'm not impressed.
    "Whenever I feel like exercise I lie down until the feeling passes."
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    Palm Pilot 1000 -> Philips Nino -> Handspring Visor Deluxe -> Alltel Kyocera 7135 -> Cingular Treo 650 -> AT&T Blackjack II -> AT&T Treo 750 & Epix
  11. #31  
    Thing is, the most convincing argument I've seen as to who will buy these things is people who don't have a laptop or computer yet, don't all the extra functionality of a laptop and just want something that can get on the web and do email, and want the cheapest thing they can get to do it.

    That breed of customer doesn't care in the slightest if it's 2.5 lbs or 5 lbs, and will just go out and get the cheapest celeron laptop they can find, at $100-200 cheaper than this foleo.

    There's also a few other problems with this customer. Do they know how to set up a wireless network since this thing can't plug straight into a router? What's going to convince them that this is a good idea after having been burned by WebTV 10 years ago (since this is the same market)?
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  12. #32  
    Foleo seems like a device that would be chosen for deadline writing. It is keyboardcentric, lightweight, instant on. You probably already have recording devices for capturing voice. Cameras, you got that covered too.
    Does the lightweight Foleo answer any prayer or are you more inclined towards a low-end macbook?
    Executives may not be interested in Foleo, because they can't resist one-upping each other -- ie more interested in what it looks like when displayed in a meeting room, i.e., Vaio, OQO 02 or some fine leather covered UMPC
  13. #33  
    foleo's success or failure will be determined by the market, not by the members of TC. I don't think anyone at palm expects the foleo to be a blockbuster product, even Hawkins said so himself. This product, however, allows palm to dip its toes in a new market and a product category and test a new OS platform. For that purpose, foleo is absolutely the right product.

    For those of you who keep comparing the foleo to the subnotebook or a small notebook, just think about these issues:

    - Do you have a cellphone, a landline phone, a dvd player, a TV, a video game console, a portable game player, a portable mp3 player, a smartphone, or a cd player?
    - A notebook pc, with the right software and hardware, can replace all the devices listed above. Then why are people still buying them?
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    #34  
    What can the Foleo do that this can't for the same price (allowing for the usual transatlantic price inflation)?

    Ask the question the other way round, and the list is endless!
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome View Post
    For those of you who keep comparing the foleo to the subnotebook or a small notebook, just think about these issues:

    - Do you have a cellphone, a landline phone, a dvd player, a TV, a video game console, a portable game player, a portable mp3 player, a smartphone, or a cd player?
    - A notebook pc, with the right software and hardware, can replace all the devices listed above. Then why are people still buying them?
    Nope, I have a Treo and a Notebook. I use the two as my phone, DVD player (Media Center), video game console, portable game player, and music player (MP3s and CDs). People buy those individual components either because:
    A) They're cheaper
    B) They do it better

    The Foleo is neither. It's expensive (more than a cheap laptop) and has less functionality.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
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    #36  
    The moment the exec tries to open up a video file or a streaming video link and finds out that his new toy Foleo cannot play it, he'd just throw it away immediately and give the IT folks an ear-ful.

    In the past years we've been talking about convergence: having one device to do everything. Now the new 'vision' is the other way around. I'm puzzled.
    T R E O s t i l l R O C K S - to a certain extent
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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Nope, I have a Treo and a Notebook. I use the two as my phone, DVD player (Media Center), video game console, portable game player, and music player (MP3s and CDs). People buy those individual components either because:
    A) They're cheaper
    B) They do it better

    The Foleo is neither. It's expensive (more than a cheap laptop) and has less functionality.
    but cheaper than most laptops, especially the ones that are light and small.

    And how many laptops out there can do an instant on and has a battery that lasts 5 hours with the wifi on?

    foleo is not for you, but it certainly doesn't mean that it is not right for someone else.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by webedc View Post
    The moment the exec tries to open up a video file or a streaming video link and finds out that his new toy Foleo cannot play it, he'd just throw it away immediately and give the IT folks an ear-ful.
    Not if it's hanging off of an iPhone.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome View Post
    but cheaper than most laptops, especially the ones that are light and small.

    And how many laptops out there can do an instant on and has a battery that lasts 5 hours with the wifi on?

    foleo is not for you, but it certainly doesn't mean that it is not right for someone else.
    Boy...if instant on and slightly longer battery life are that important to you that you accept a crippled device that can't actually do any computing at the cost of a computer, more power to you. I won't stop you from throwing your money away.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  20. tirk's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rome View Post
    but cheaper than most laptops, especially the ones that are light and small.
    Quite a few laptops are cheaper though, and some are available that are about the same weight and about the same price (within a 50% margin, say). You only need one to make the Foleo a bad deal, given the vastly greater functionality of a proper laptop.

    And how many laptops out there can do an instant on and has a battery that lasts 5 hours with the wifi on?
    Mine does 5 hours genuine, and as I timed it earlier today, will go from off to reading a downloaded email in under 30 seconds. Will the Foleo do that?

    foleo is not for you, but it certainly doesn't mean that it is not right for someone else.
    Fine, but who are these people? Journalists without laptops? Executives who can't figure out Vista and aren't worried who knows it?? Palm employees??? The market is just too small!
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
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