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  1. Brjlk's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    I'll buy it and try it, and if it sucks I'll return or resell it. But I won't get so angry and hung up over it's failure and be so critical of Palm for trying.
    The thing is Palm has the monopoly of their Linux Palm OS, as they stated that their OS will not be licenced to any body.
    Already we have only one hardware for smartphone, the Treo. From model to model, it is the same thing in terms of form factor (no model with large screen without keyboard, no model with sliding keyboard and larger screen)
    They will make the Treo more compact, maybe with smaller screen. Are they not forcing us to buy the Foleo, by making future Treo more limited in use if you don't buy their "companion"?

    John
  2. dpc
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    #62  
    I don't think they will be limiting the input functions in future treos because of the foleo. I think they will still include as many viable input methods as they can. The thing with the foleo is that as a 'companion' it is meant to overcome the physical stonewalls that they believe every smartphone runs into, limited ease of input and screen size.

    I wonder what will happen with the foleo once foldable and rollable screens start going commercial though.
  3. #63  
    Hi guys

    I think you all are missing the point

    Like GreenHex says earlier - this is version 1

    I agree with you this version sucks

    But you know that nice treo fan club you got going there came from the following

    Palm pilot - T3 then handspring then visor then treo 180 then 270 then 600 then 650 and then the glorious 680

    Now if they took folio and added more solid state mem (leave Hard drives out they suck juice - besides the 8 - 32 //sdhc cards should be cming out)

    gave it gsm capabilities
    allowed linux programs for africa to be written for it

    Guess version 4 would be the one that I would buy !!!!

    Makes you think

    This device might be bum now but with time who knows ??? A ferari ????


    Besides right now wit my TX (never a better machine made b Palm) and my treo 680 I am there already
  4. cgk
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    #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by mw22 View Post

    But you know that nice treo fan club you got going there came from the following

    Palm pilot - T3 then handspring then visor then treo 180 then 270 then 600 then 650 and then the glorious 680

    But don't those reflect a) a period of innovation and b) products that had clear markets and were generally well-received?

    In both of those product lines - innovation seems to have stoped a while back.

    I don't know - anyone with a longer memory than me - was the original palm pilot or treo 180 received in the same way as the foleo and were people struggling to understand who'd use it and why?
  5. #65  
    Maybe not

    But what would you do when you are busy tansitioning your entire operating system to Linux

    give the techie braggarts in the linux camp the full operating system and say sic em and see what they will come out with

    When has Palm ever really done a good thing

    Probably at palm pilot 1000 stage

    And thats why I say again

    you all battle to understand this device
    but whn version 4 comes out Will you all remeber how you choked it today ???
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by mw22 View Post
    Hi guys

    I think you all are missing the point

    Like GreenHex says earlier - this is version 1

    I agree with you this version sucks

    But you know that nice treo fan club you got going there came from the following

    Palm pilot - T3 then handspring then visor then treo 180 then 270 then 600 then 650 and then the glorious 680

    Now if they took folio and added more solid state mem (leave Hard drives out they suck juice - besides the 8 - 32 //sdhc cards should be cming out)

    gave it gsm capabilities
    allowed linux programs for africa to be written for it

    Guess version 4 would be the one that I would buy !!!!

    Makes you think

    This device might be bum now but with time who knows ??? A ferari ????


    Besides right now wit my TX (never a better machine made b Palm) and my treo 680 I am there already
    At the end of that process you end up with this, which of course exists already.





    Surur
  7. cgk
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    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by mw22 View Post
    When has Palm ever really done a good thing

    Probably at palm pilot 1000 stage

    And thats why I say again

    you all battle to understand this device
    but whn version 4 comes out Will you all remeber how you choked it today ??? ???
    I remember hearing similar comments when people poo-pooed the lifedrive - remind me -when is version 4 of that coming out?

    You could be right but I seriously doubt we will ever see more than v1.5 of this device.
  8. jimn367's Avatar
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    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    ...When looked at from that perspective, what is this Foleo all about? I believe Palm realized they are losing the smartphone war, and needs to expand their markets. Just like Creative went from making Ipod competitors to Ipod accessories, so the Foleo aims to piggyback on the success of other companies like Apple, HTC and Nokia. The fact that they specifically mentioned support for other devices gives you an idea of their confidence in their Treo line...

    ...This is also why its a 3rd business, and not part of the Treo accessory line. They hope to grow it much beyond the Treo family. Yes, this device serves a niche, but instead of going after 5% of the 3 million treos they sell per year, they are going after 5% of the 100 million smartphones sold per year, which incidentally will result in a much larger stream of revenue.

    Surur
    Very insightful and reflective. I don't know about the 'losing the smartphone war' and 'lack of confidence' aspect, but they are definately 'one of the many'. Even in the PDA realm they were a big dog, but the cell phone market is an entirely different story.

    You can actually think of the Foleo as an attempt of the rebirth of the PDA, but from an inverse perspective. 10 years ago everyone had a computer and wanted to carry their data with them. Today the market is exploding with mobile communication devices, but they have limitations and the Foleo attempts to address those limitations.

    We are only allowed to have Blackberry's at work, and although the BB is nice, it will not be as capable as my UX with bluetooth to my phone was (several years ago) for a LONG time. If the Foleo lets me seamlessly grab back some of that old Palm goodness using my BB as a conduit, it is definately worth a looksy.

    I don't think customers should feel alienated because the product isn't what they were expecting. I personally like PDAs like the UX-50 and was kinda hoping for a super TX sized screen UX-50ish thing with built in GPS. Like I said this is completely NOT what I was expecting from Palm. Just because this isn't what I was expecting doesn't make it bad, or make Palm a bunch of idiots.

    You know
    Palm could be idiots and this device succeeds
    Palm could be idiots and this device does not succeed
    Palm could be genius and this device succeeds
    Palm could be genius and this device does not succeed
    Last edited by jimn367; 06/01/2007 at 11:24 AM.
  9. jimn367's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    At the end of that process you end up with this, which of course exists already.

    Surur

    I think the subtlety many seem to be missing is this is intended to be something that enhances a treo/smartphone/blackberry, which you may be given by your company.

    I could go buy the Foleo to use with my corporate blackberry.

    Maybe there are some very generous companies that roll out mondo devices to the hordes but usually you'll just get a laptop OR a blackberry. As cool as those HTC devices are, the chances of my company getting me one are 0, nada, zilche

    and I would argue why get the HTC when I can get a tablet PC with an EVDO card

    HTC shift expected retail price $2000
    Foleo expected retail price $499
    Last edited by jimn367; 06/01/2007 at 11:27 AM.
  10. #70  
    The crucial thing about devices of this type is the software - and in Foleo's case, the flood (of sofware) is yet to come. And with software, everything boils down to its user interface, ease of use and functionality, which in turn would depend on the APIs and SDK and stuff like that. The UI is where, I suppose, Palm would excel. From the software standpoint, the Foleo would be a test-bed and proof-of-concept for some future killer device having Linux.

    Despite WM being so powerful, it is a pain to use (for most people). I think Palm has an uphill task with Linux as far as the UI is concerned. Then they have also indicated that they would be supporting (well written) existing PalmOS apps with Linux, which brings in its own share of complications.

    - mvk
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    At the end of that process you end up with this, which of course exists already.
    Now there's a niche device.
  12. #72  
    Hi surur

    At the end of that process you end up with this, which of course exists already.

    Yes we could get that but it only works for an hour or two and probably wont run anything from MS unless its broken in two.

    I mean Pocket cr?? is a killer to work with and then your colleague spends 2 hrs getting the format right again ???
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by mw22 View Post
    Hi surur

    At the end of that process you end up with this, which of course exists already.

    Yes we could get that but it only works for an hour or two and probably wont run anything from MS unless its broken in two.

    I mean Pocket cr?? is a killer to work with and then your colleague spends 2 hrs getting the format right again ???
    It actually runs full Vista.

    Surur
  14. ttcoupe's Avatar
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    #74  
    Surur, so you are saying that for someone who already has a good qwerty smartphone, a proper second device is $2000 HTC Shift that:
    - does not run the same applications as his smartphone
    - has a cramped keyboard that does not provide much benefits when compared to the thump qwerty in his phone
    - has a smallish screen

    Why don't you consider the possibility that the smartphone owner might want $600 Palm Foleo that:
    - does run the same applications as his smartphone
    - has a good full keyboard
    - has a larger screen

    Because this is the vision behind Foleo. I admit that now in it's initial form and as the OS is brand new, the Foleo does not yet provide the application compatibility with a smartphone, therefore Palm is hush-hush about this feature.
  15. dpc
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    #75  
    I think i wants a Foleo, but i wants it to run the youtube.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttcoupe View Post
    Surur, so you are saying that for someone who already has a good qwerty smartphone, a proper second device is $2000 HTC Shift that:
    - does not run the same applications as his smartphone
    - has a cramped keyboard that does not provide much benefits when compared to the thump qwerty in his phone
    - has a smallish screen

    Why don't you consider the possibility that the smartphone owner might want $600 Palm Foleo that:
    - does run the same applications as his smartphone
    - has a good full keyboard
    - has a larger screen

    Because this is the vision behind Foleo. I admit that now in it's initial form and as the OS is brand new, the Foleo does not yet provide the application compatibility with a smartphone, therefore Palm is hush-hush about this feature.
    What would the natural end of the progression of the development (version 3-4) of the Foleo look like, from your POV then?

    Surur
  17. ttcoupe's Avatar
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    What would the natural end of the progression of the development (version 3-4) of the Foleo look like, from your POV then?
    I actually assume it's looks to stay exactly the way it is now. Just like the Treo has.

    Obvious improvements that will happen if Palm exists a few more years: touch pad, more processing power, windowed UI that does not break the software compatibility with a Treo that does not get the windowed UI, and hopefully lots of new software.

    Possible improvements: hinged touch screen so that it can be used as a tablet, some novel folding mechanism that makes it half the size when carried.

    This kind of device would be a very useful mobile companion. The smartphone is still the one that you always carry and the mobile companion is not always with you. Both run the same software. A lot of people would not need any other devices.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttcoupe View Post
    This kind of device would be a very useful mobile companion. The smartphone is still the one that you always carry and the mobile companion is not always with you. Both run the same software. A lot of people would not need any other devices.
    Wait, let me get this straight. You actually want crippled, scaled down versions of Desktop PC software to run on both your phone and laptop? Why? We put up with slightly inferior software on our phones because we make concessions to allow for smaller memory, not as powerful processor, smaller screen, etc. What benefit do you get for running these programs that have to be highly optimized for a phone on a laptop (or laptop-looking/sized device)? I don't want docs to go and chatter and opera mini and verasamail on my larger device. I want OpenOffice, Firefox, and Trillian. I want software that's designed to take advantage of the additional screen real-estate that a larger device has available. And I want the additional features that are enabled by having much more storage space and processing speed than a phone can deliver.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  19. ttcoupe's Avatar
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    #79  
    Storage space and processing power are not a problem. There will be more than enough of both in future smartphones.

    Keyboard (input) and screen size (output) are problems in smartphones, just as Jeff said. Smartphone screen sizes will stay quite small and resolutions will be about VGA or so.

    When properly designed with an appropriate SDK, the same binary can work very well in a smartphone and still make use of the large screen when run in Foleo or in an even larger screen. The OS handles most issues and the programmer handles the rest.

    For example, the Foleo OS shows the menu items "File", "Edit", "Tools", "Help", etc. side by side when the Treo OS shows them one under the other. Binary is the same.

    Some design decisions are left to the programmer: show this way in Treo and that way in Foleo. This is easy if the SDK can easily show how the program looks in each screen size.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttcoupe View Post
    Storage space and processing power are not a problem. There will be more than enough of both in future smartphones.
    Well when Smartphones have over a gig of onboard memory then you'll have an argument. Until I start seeing that happen all you're doing is arguing that this might be a decent idea in some theoretical future world of technology that might exist (if Palm survives that long).
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
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