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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Bad comparison. People buy sportscars because they're fast and perform well, even if they're not as big or roomy as other cars. We've already seen <cough>YouTube</cough> that this thing doesn't perform well at all.
    Talk about missing the metaphor. Sports cars DONT perform well. I cant take my kayak with me! I cant shuttle the kids to school!! They eat tires too fast! Theres no room for my guitar, or the softball equipement! They get crushed in collisions!! The sound on the stereo sucks because the cabin is so small!!!!! NO DVD PLAYER FOR THE KIDS!!!!

    SPORTS CARS SUCK!!! THEY WILL SINK THE AUTO INDUSTRY!!!!

    what? You have different needs in a car? Oh, never thought of that.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Bad comparison. People buy sportscars because they're fast and perform well, even if they're not as big or roomy as other cars. We've already seen <cough>YouTube</cough> that this thing doesn't perform well at all.

    We did not bring this hype on ourselves, that was Palm's doing. They said this announcement was going to be the next big thing in mobile computing, they stated over and over that it's revolutionary. What we were shown yesterday is anything but. It's been done hundreds of times before, by many companies, all around the globe, for over 10 years. None of them have stuck around. A thin client is not a new idea. A "not a laptop but looks like a laptop" has been done before and never caught on. Devices that had keyboards and bigger screens that paired with your phone for email and internet were all the rage in Japan about 7 years ago, and they died quietly because all that functionality is now included in the smartphone.

    There is nothing new about this. It's a poor excuse for a laptop boasting specs that might have been standard 5-10 years ago. It's behind the times.
    You tell 'em Count. What these folks are failing to realize is that a device like this is retrospective, and will not have a long obsolesence cycle. As a person who has been responsible for tech purchase decisions, I have found that a device's ability to keep pace with software and other developments to be a crucial determining factor. Any business person who says they don't mind spending 600 (fooleo)+500 (smartphone) for these outdated (but they're so cute! not!) devices is a chump, imo. By the way, I have some land in Florida...
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2714 View Post
    Talk about missing the metaphor. Sports cars DONT perform well. I cant take my kayak with me! I cant shuttle the kids to school!! They eat tires too fast! Theres no room for my guitar, or the softball equipement! They get crushed in collisions!! The sound on the stereo sucks because the cabin is so small!!!!! NO DVD PLAYER FOR THE KIDS!!!!

    SPORTS CARS SUCK!!! THEY WILL SINK THE AUTO INDUSTRY!!!!

    what? You have different needs in a car? Oh, never thought of that.
    Um, excuse me? Car performance doesn't have anything to do with interior room or ergonomics, it's acceleration, handling, top speed, etc. That's what performance means. If I had meant interior space I would've said that, but I didn't. I said performance. In the auto industry, a High Performance Car or High Performance Parts never refer to vans, but sports cars.

    So let's take your car metaphor (now that we've cleared up what performance means). People are willing to pay $50,000 for a Corvette even though there's only 2 seats and no room for storage, etc because it's a high performance car.

    You take another small car with hardly any interior space, say a Geo Metro, that doesn't perform anywhere near a 'Vette. Is anyone going to pay much for it? No. People bought it because it was a super cheap car (and even then it didn't sell well).

    What the Foleo does is it takes no performance whatsoever, yet it tries to place it at the price point of Laptops that have much more performance. If it actually had other features worth speaking of (like that van or SUV that has much more room) there wouldn't be a problem, but it doesn't.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  4. #44  
    Fine, but you are missing a big point-- not everyone cares about performance (using your definition). You know what is important to my wife in a car? That its easy to buckle the car seats in securely and that the interior is easy to clean. And, though she'd LOVE a Corvette, she would not buy one today, at any price. It doesnt suit her needs. You know whats important to me? Head room. Car and Driver could fall all over themselves about the new 'vette, but it wont suit everybody, no matter how cool it is.

    So, for clarification, sports cars dont perform the functions that I require well. I was being a bit facetious in my last post, but the things I listed are more important in a car to me then how fast it gets from 0-60.

    I have no great need to defend a product that I've never seen and may never bother with, but it is VERY clear to me that there is a market for it, for reasons that Ive already outlined.
  5. fredc1's Avatar
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       #45  
    So maybe I should have qualified my "sports car" analogy so that it included a few cars like the Miata, Honda Del Sol, and VW Karmann Ghia, that were/are decidly not very fast and where performance was not so great. But there were enough of them sold to a very happy niche market. In some cases cars like these were downright difficult to handle, and uncomfortable to boot...but the drivers almost always had smiles on their faces.

    Declaring a product dead even before the public gets to touch it is pretty darn silly. And comparing the Foleo to heavier and slower laptops that are loaded with features and functionality that have little real value to some users under certain circumstances isn't very meaningful either.

    And it does have some features worth mentioning..instant on, lightweight (at its price), simplicity. If these things are worth something to me but not to you, that's fine. But trying to impose your values on my buying decisions is plain dumb. I neither need or want another Windows computer in my life. My desktop for home and my laptop for work are all that I want to deal with. The Foleo might be only able to satisfy 50% of my total computing needs, but there are times when that is more than enough, and the mobility of it would allow me to do it nearly anywhere, at any time, with almost no limitations.

    So I've heard enough from you folks who have nicely explained why this isn't something you would buy. I'd like to hear more from those of you who might buy a Foleo and the various uses to which it might be put. And what added features they would like to see to expand it as a smartphone companion, as opposed to how it should be made to be more like a laptop.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2714 View Post
    Fine, but you are missing a big point-- not everyone cares about performance (using your definition). You know what is important to my wife in a car? That its easy to buckle the car seats in securely and that the interior is easy to clean. And, though she'd LOVE a Corvette, she would not buy one today, at any price. It doesnt suit her needs. You know whats important to me? Head room. Car and Driver could fall all over themselves about the new 'vette, but it wont suit everybody, no matter how cool it is.

    So, for clarification, sports cars dont perform the functions that I require well. I was being a bit facetious in my last post, but the things I listed are more important in a car to me then how fast it gets from 0-60.

    I have no great need to defend a product that I've never seen and may never bother with, but it is VERY clear to me that there is a market for it, for reasons that Ive already outlined.
    That's fine and well, but your wife isn't going to spend as much on the car that suits her needs as she would on a high performance sportscar.

    There may very well be a market for this thing, just not when it's priced in laptop range.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by osolucky View Post
    Palm will be lucky if they sell 10 of these, there will be no corporate market for this. We already have $500 laptops with 80 gig HD. The future is laptop and a smart device, be it Treo, BB, or win. Plam has realy missed the mark with this.
    exactly, why would i buy the foleo, piece of crap, with no innovation, when i could get a cheap notebook that could do even more.
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  8. fredc1's Avatar
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       #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    That's fine and well, but your wife isn't going to spend as much on the car that suits her needs as she would on a high performance sportscar.

    There may very well be a market for this thing, just not when it's priced in laptop range.
    But I'm sure she would be spending more on a car that suits her needs than I will on a Mini Cooper. And still, show me the 2.5 lb laptop for $499 that has instant on, a 5 hour battery life, 10" screen, and plays with my phone as nicely. Don't tell me about what more I can get in a laptop that is just as light for five hundred dollars more...if I had another $500 I might rather get two Foleos
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    That's fine and well, but your wife isn't going to spend as much on the car that suits her needs as she would on a high performance sportscar.

    There may very well be a market for this thing, just not when it's priced in laptop range.
    Also fine and well, but I dont think you're taking the delta in deployment cost into account between laptops and this thing. You are also assuming that everyone wants the "best" gadget-- many will pay a premium for ease of use (Tivos come to mind-- Comcast will GIVE you a box that does absolutely everything a tivo does, but tivos are easier to use, and many people still buy them for their simplicity-- I know that you'll now argue that tivos have more FEATURES, and that is one way to look at it-- not a perfect example, Ill admit, but the point is valid)

    I am also assuming that, as with most new gadgets, the price will come down dramatically. $350 and I look at it.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    But I'm sure she would be spending more on a car that suits her needs than I will on a Mini Cooper. And still, show me the 2.5 lb laptop for $499 that has instant on, a 5 hour battery life, 10" screen, and plays with my phone as nicely. Don't tell me about what more I can get in a laptop that is just as light for five hundred dollars more...if I had another $500 I might rather get two Foleos

    but if you are getting those features in the same price dont you want to have them no matter what.

    i would much rather go for this.
    http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_x7500.htm
    Naveen

    Current:Cingular 8525 w/Faria R32

    Next Phone:
    Something from HTC because Palm sucks, so I want a Touch Pro, Touch HD, or a Treo Pro.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    But I'm sure she would be spending more on a car that suits her needs than I will on a Mini Cooper. And still, show me the 2.5 lb laptop for $499 that has instant on, a 5 hour battery life, 10" screen, and plays with my phone as nicely. Don't tell me about what more I can get in a laptop that is just as light for five hundred dollars more...if I had another $500 I might rather get two Foleos
    Show me a Foleo that you can buy for under $599 (since when has palm been good about rebates?) that can play YouTube videos and I'll show you a laptop as light as a foleo for the same price.

    It's great that your wife wants a minivan to drive the kids to soccer practice, but it's not gonna get very far with that moped engine.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  12. ksom's Avatar
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    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    So I've heard enough from you folks who have nicely explained why this isn't something you would buy. I'd like to hear more from those of you who might buy a Foleo and the various uses to which it might be put. And what added features they would like to see to expand it as a smartphone companion, as opposed to how it should be made to be more like a laptop.
    I agree, that docking/undocking, suspend/unsuspend is a pain with laptops. It also crashes the computer more often, so you would need a full reboot. I tried for a little while using an IR keyboard with Treo 600 in meetings, but the screen is still too small to read from a distance and the keyboard is not stable on a table.

    Here are a few things I see need to improve for Foleo to takeoff or at least be more appealing to me:
    * Price. $500 is too high, consider people has to have a high end smart phone to use it with. I would get more interested if it is below $200.
    * Lighter. I know battery may account for a large portion of the weight, but 2.5 lb is a little too heavy. I remember my 4lb laptop felt like feather after using a 7lb one for a year, but after 2 years, I start to feel its weight. 2.5lb maybe a big improvements, but it has to go lighter to really be a "companion."
    * Since Palm controls everything in Foleo, they should add more unique ease of use features. The back and forth buttons are nice, but I want more, e.g. zoom in/out.
    * A touch screen. I actually don't mind the screen is a little smaller, 1024x300 (so it can be narrower), or 640x400, but able to quickly jump to a spot on screen is great with web browsing or a map program.
    * More memory. There is no end for the need of more space. For $500, 128MB of user memory is too low. I want to see at least 4GB, hopefully 16GB flash drive inside. If the price is $200, I may tolerate 128MB, but we have to be able to lauch applications from extended cards. This capability may already be part of the Linux OS.
    * Spellchecker. I don't know why so many emails programs do not come with a basic spellchecker. Maybe this should be another button, too.
    * Eventually a folding or rolled up screen would be nice to keep the size to a keyboard, but enable to have larger screens. But I don't count on this, because I have not seen any real products with such screens.

    So, it still has a long way to go, but it is still possible to develop a new market for itself. I never liked the Palm III or version before that, but I liked Palm V. It really killed all other competitions in the PDA market at the time.

    UMPC and other ultra light laptop PC all have the same fundamental problem, they have to run like a PC, therefore it has to carry all the baggages. And as PC in general gets more powerful, people would want the same in UMPC and laptops. And I don't see anyone would want to sync data between a UMPC or laptop with their desktop, so UMPC and laptop has to be able to dock and support large external monitors, printers and other peripherals.
  13. #53  
    I've been scratching my head over the Foleo for a couple days now, wondering what it's for - and I think I've got it...

    Whenever I go to Starbucks, Coffee Bean, or Borders Books, the tables are filled to the gills with people doing homework, conducting business, and/or using the location as a portable office. Here in Los Angeles, it's difficult to get a table or a chair to enjoy a fine cup of joe due to squatters who sit for hours on end hooked up to the T-Mobile Hotspots for IM, emails, net browsing, and work on their next screenplay. And of course all the while these folks are tethered to their cell phones too...

    To me this is quite an amazing social phenomenon - and if you haven't seen this it's really quite a trip.

    I think the Foleo is for them. Folks who always have their phone on, work in the coffee shop, and stay plugged in all the time. The $499 price point might be affordable for the many students, struggling artists, and showbiz wheeler-dealer types who sit with their lattes, write treatments and IM their friends. This particular population doesn't really need the computing power of a laptop, but the large screen and keyboard plus the ubiquitous cell phone companion makes the Foleo a nice fit for the Starbucks crowd, don't you think?

    Of course I could be wrong... Maybe a switch to decafe is in order...only I can't get a table...

    Cheers!
    Larry
    That's me in the photo - you can check out my kung fu school at http://www.kungfuschool.org
  14. #54  
    Things i like about the device:
    +sd card reader is good bec. a lot of my devices use sd--garmin nuvi, treo 680, canon dig cameras.
    +usb port so you can use an external mouse instead of that trackpoint. i can use it to dump files to my sansa?
    +instant on/off. this is huge. my biggest gripe with laptops is that sometimes you just want to quickly check email or go to a website, but cant bec. booting up is a chore.
    +fast app switching, extremely responsive UI
    +the OS looks very tight, clean good looking interface
    +soemtimes less is more. i hate windows sometimes bec. it has too many settings & options. i like how this device comes with just a handful of apps and they are all good and useful apps not a bunch of bloatware. i was lookng at a sony vaio and navigating to start--> Programs opened up two columns worth of apps 90% junk trial stuff
    + $500 isnt bad for an introd. price. prices will drop and this will be a really fun little device to pick up for $300 or so
    +styling is conservative. i like boring looking machines.

    The limitations in the browser concern me. But maybe a work around for the flash video support will surface.
    Last edited by robby818; 06/01/2007 at 03:51 AM.
  15. #55  
    After the dust has settled, I have to agree that the Foleo is a very smart move by Palm, after-all these guys at Palm are smart people (and very rich too because of that). The plan is to plonk down two devices, one in your palm and the other on your lap.

    Considering that the Foleo is the first of its type, I wish a future device would incorporate a GPS, and a DVD player. It is only a matter of time before TCPMP and other players are ported to the Foleo. Handling the large sized images and videos could be a problem, but the Foleo would probably be upgraded to achieve a balance between power consumption <-> processor speed <-> peripheral device power consumption.

    Then there should also be a touchscreen, and proper handwriting recognition software.

    Surf, watch videos, take notes, email, location based info... that's what most people do all the time and that's what the Foleo would do. And a Laptop would be dedicated to specialized applications, and would clearly be dispensible for most people. But the Treo and the Foleo would be dependant on each other for their operation.

    For now, I'll stand by and watch others purchase it and build a critical mass.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHex View Post
    Considering that the Foleo is the first of its type, I wish a future device would incorporate a GPS, and a DVD player. It is only a matter of time before TCPMP and other players are ported to the Foleo. Handling the large sized images and videos could be a problem, but the Foleo would probably be upgraded to achieve a balance between power consumption <-> processor speed <-> peripheral device power consumption.
    .
    .
    .
    For now, I'll stand by and watch others purchase it and build a critical mass.
    There was no LifeDrive 2.0.

    Surur
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur View Post
    There was no LifeDrive 2.0.

    Surur
    Because they realized that solid state was the future.
  18. jimn367's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by theog View Post
    Not really... can't be used in my business... well, it could, but a laptop has all the other tools I need for business... I think many will find that is the case as well.

    far as businesses, they will keep on buying laptops... but they MAY use Palm's device to cut better deals with dell or HP... lol...

    I really don't get comments like this - because the spec sheet is not useful to you then it's not a good business tool.

    Look, if you don't like the Foleo concept - and it is a radical change for Palm - fine. There are lots of concepts that make me scratch my head and go WTF? Someone tried to start a thread that said "Why would you buy a Foleo?" and the thread has been jumped by haters that are mad that the newest product from Palm isn't a Large Screened GSM/CDMA, BT, WiFi, Built in GPS, 1G RAM, 120G Hard Drive....

    I don't know how successful the Foleo will be, but I do believe it is the product of some focused market research. The Foleo is not for people to have laptops. The Foleo is meant as an enabler to permanently rid you of your laptop. The same market research telling Palm there is a market is telling Wintel companies to build UMPCs.

    I'm sure the market research of smarphone users told them:
    1) I got a treo/smartphone blackberry so I wouldn't have to lug around my laptop all the time
    2) It would be nice if you could make the treo smaller, but I don't like the performance compromises it imposes
    3) It would be nice if I could have a larger keyboard and display
    4) My laptop is too big to use on an airplane
    5) I don't like waiting for my laptop to boot
    6) My laptop battery life is too short
    7) I want to be able to drive a projector
    8) I mainly use my laptop for e-mail, MS Office files and accessing the web
    9) I don't like having to lug around a secureID card and doing VPN connections just to get my e-mail

    The Foleo is potentially something someone could buy as a companion to their corporately provided treo/smartphone/blackberry.

    I personally think the Foleo is an interesting idea and I'd like to see how it really works across a multitude of platforms before passing judgement. Will it be successful? Who knows, but I'll give Palm a little credit for trying.
  19. jimn367's Avatar
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    #59  
    I should add the Foleo is NOT what I was expecting Palm to announce at all. I was stunned by a device with a 10"screen and that it was a smartphone 'companion'. I was really expecting something with a 5"screen and some more features crammed into it. Of course - isn't cramming half baked Beta level features into products what other companies are already doing?

    But as I've digested it [the Foleo]- isn't this really a laptop alternative with the 'Zen of Palm' like philosophy? That was the beauty of the original Palms - they didn't have more features, it just worked better and was simple.

    OK - enough Palm cheerleading because it's not what I really was planning to do.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimn367 View Post
    I really don't get comments like this - because the spec sheet is not useful to you then it's not a good business tool.

    Look, if you don't like the Foleo concept - and it is a radical change for Palm - fine. There are lots of concepts that make me scratch my head and go WTF? Someone tried to start a thread that said "Why would you buy a Foleo?" and the thread has been jumped by haters that are mad that the newest product from Palm isn't a Large Screened GSM/CDMA, BT, WiFi, Built in GPS, 1G RAM, 120G Hard Drive....

    I don't know how successful the Foleo will be, but I do believe it is the product of some focused market research. The Foleo is not for people to have laptops. The Foleo is meant as an enabler to permanently rid you of your laptop. The same market research telling Palm there is a market is telling Wintel companies to build UMPCs.

    I'm sure the market research of smarphone users told them:
    1) I got a treo/smartphone blackberry so I wouldn't have to lug around my laptop all the time
    2) It would be nice if you could make the treo smaller, but I don't like the performance compromises it imposes
    3) It would be nice if I could have a larger keyboard and display
    4) My laptop is too big to use on an airplane
    5) I don't like waiting for my laptop to boot
    6) My laptop battery life is too short
    7) I want to be able to drive a projector
    8) I mainly use my laptop for e-mail, MS Office files and accessing the web
    9) I don't like having to lug around a secureID card and doing VPN connections just to get my e-mail

    The Foleo is potentially something someone could buy as a companion to their corporately provided treo/smartphone/blackberry.

    I personally think the Foleo is an interesting idea and I'd like to see how it really works across a multitude of platforms before passing judgement. Will it be successful? Who knows, but I'll give Palm a little credit for trying.
    Actually whats prompting other companies to do UMPC's etc is the fear of market saturation. How do you get some-one who already has a desktop to buy another computer? Sell them a laptop. And when they already have a laptop, what do you sell them next? A UMPC of course.

    Companies do not set out to solve our problems, they work to solve theirs (which all involve cash flow and profit of course). Its because they are solving their problems, not ours, that these devices are such a hard sell, with little apparent intrinsic value.

    When looked at from that perspective, what is this Foleo all about? I believe Palm realized they are losing the smartphone war, and needs to expand their markets. Just like Creative went from making Ipod competitors to Ipod accessories, so the Foleo aims to piggyback on the success of other companies like Apple, HTC and Nokia. The fact that they specifically mentioned support for other devices gives you an idea of their confidence in their Treo line.

    This is also why its a 3rd business, and not part of the Treo accessory line. They hope to grow it much beyond the Treo family. Yes, this device serves a niche, but instead of going after 5% of the 3 million treos they sell per year, they are going after 5% of the 100 million smartphones sold per year, which incidentally will result in a much larger stream of revenue.

    Its still a niche however, and this device turns of 19 out of 20 people. That never looks good, especially when the established customers feel abandoned.

    Surur
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