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  1. hova's Avatar
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    #21  
    Why do I need to extend my treo 7XX screen to a foleo? Is palm playing a joke? If I can buy a laptop for around the same price, why would I need a Foleo? The whole point of having a treo is so you dont have to lug a laptop around. Now palm is telling us that we DO need a laptop it just happens to be a Foleo that we need. Wow!! if people buy this I would be really surprised. Palm is smart tho, they have shifted everyone's attention away from the fact that they dont feel like fixing their treo's(treo 700P)anymore. Thats pretty slick!
    "Bite the hand that feeds you,.......They'll always be impressed by the sharpness of your teeth."-Peggy Sellers (Miriam Margolyes)
  2. zorg's Avatar
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    #22  
    I'll buy the Foleo because of

    A. Just works without thinking about it
    (based on what I know of Hawkins' philosophy of computing)
    B. VGA out in a smaller form factor than any non-Windows machine
    C. Instant-on
    D. Cheap
    E. Will work with whatever smartphone I upgrade to
    (based on what I know of Hawkins' philosophy of computing)

    and will probably use it twice a week for presentations, an average of twice a week for meetings where I want to be able to look things up (and don't need youtube since I'm just looking up facts and figures), and once a month on trips where I spend more time with people and less with the computer. I'll probably keep using it through several phones over several years. I really don't care if there is a sexier follow-on, because it will never be as sexy as my Macbook Pro. But my Macbook Pro doesn't weigh 2.5lbs!

    The only way I won't buy this is if Apple suddenly releases a 2.5lb machine and, since their rumored ultraportable is rumored to have a 13" screen, I'm guessing that it will weigh at least 3.5lbs and yet not be an acceptable replacement for my Macbook Pro.
  3. #23  
    Market size: There will be large companies that deploy Folios to a mobile salesforce. It makes a ton of sense in lowered overhead, and less brain damage for low-tech employees. There will be higher level guys that buy them because it is simpler then a full laptop on the road when all you really need is email, web and simple document support.

    What the Folio-bashers dont get it is, sometimes simple is GOOD. Ive been realizing of late that, based on some changes to the way I'm conducting business lately, I may need to get a laptop. To me, this means one of two scenarios (or something in-between): ALWAYS being tethethered to a lower power computer, with a smaller keyboard and screen then I have now, and reconnecting cables and network connections every time I come and go from the office, -OR- spending a ton of money on a high-end laptop and docking station for convenience and to avoid sacrificing computing power at the office. It would also mean a more strict document backup regimen, which I dont really want to screw with any more then I do now.

    All this just so I can type a little longer emails, and read 10 page documents on the road. Its overkill. I dont WANT or NEED my whole PC in my briefcase- there are too many downsides for me and many of my peers.

    So, if Good ends up supporting Folio, if it will get me a decent VPN connection, and if the price gets down to, say $350, it will be a very compelling product for me. Several hundred bucks for a device that I will use sporadically to supplement my Treo when Im on the road for extended periods, and will fit unobtrusively in my briefcase might make better sense then a full-blown laptop for me-- and for a LOT of people I know.

    (If your best response to this is: what department at Palm do you work in-- well, that's pretty weak. Learn to hold a conversation)
  4. #24  
    Let me preface my thoughts by saying the price HAS to drop. $250 tops!
    Keyboard - $10
    Display - $100
    CPU, batteries - $100
    The above is more or less retail, in quantity the cost could be much less.

    Now, for those of you comparing this to a laptop, you're missing the point / elegance. From what I gather the "dream" that Palm has is to make the phone the computer. Instead of everything docking to a PC, the Treo is the primary device with the Foleo being a smart terminal.

    For most business folks (ie: non-developers, non-engineers, etc.) having the ability to web browse, do email and do Word/Excel is all they want or need. I'd say the ability to play a movie is required too (I can do that on my Treo)! Realistically, how many people on those coach biz flights are doing Photo editing? My bet is few. How many are reading PDFS, docs, spreadsheets? I'd much rather haul this through the airport than a laptop.

    Now, why not just get a full laptop:
    1. size
    2. cost
    3. maintenance

    My bet is that this thing requires no attention. Zero blue screens. Zero windows updates. I have a relatively small laptop at work. I always leave it. If I had a Foleo sized gizmo that worked with files on my Treo SD I'd be cruising.

    The questions I have:
    1. Does this thing store docs locally or is it keeping the data on the Treo?
    2. Does it have full PowerPoint editing capability?
  5. tirk's Avatar
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2714 View Post
    So, if Good ends up supporting Folio, if it will get me a decent VPN connection, and if the price gets down to, say $350, it will be a very compelling product for me.
    I don't wholly disagree, though I really think it's got to be cheaper than a laptop to sell to business, and $350 is marginal.

    However, can it support VPN or more demanding email applications? If it can't run youtube due to processor limitations, I wonder. Can they get the price down by more than 30% from list? If they need to uprate the processor just to add basic functionality, I wonder.

    And if most of the Palm fans here don't like it, who'll buy it anyway?
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by gkaatz View Post
    Now, why not just get a full laptop:
    1. size
    2. cost
    3. maintenance

    My bet is that this thing requires no attention. Zero blue screens. Zero windows updates. I have a relatively small laptop at work. I always leave it. If I had a Foleo sized gizmo that worked with files on my Treo SD I'd be cruising.
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Have you used any of the Treo's of late? Have you seen the kind of hardware Palm has been putting out? Do you know that Palm has been promising an update to fix the 700p's problems and still hasn't delivered? What in the world makes you think this device isn't going to have the same kind of problems, especially since it's the first version?

    So, no, sorry I don't buy the maintenance one. You get a strike on price too, as it's still more expensive than a laptop. $600 is not cheap when comparing to laptops.

    The only thing it's got on a laptop is slightly smaller size and weight, but since it's still too large to be pocketable that's a non-issue for me. When you factor in what the laptop can do that this can't....it becomes much more of a non-issue.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  7. PSB22's Avatar
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    #27  
    1) I feel sorry for Palm

    2) I'm a FanBoy

    3) I really really have to get the latest thing (did I mention I'm buying an iPhone too)

    4) I have a bunch of PALM stock and want to see the share price increase

    5) I LOVE the palm OS and am scared of windows vista

    6) I have money to burn

    7) Who needs a hard disk anyway? I have a secretary who can e-mail me any big important files from my desktop if I'm away on business

    8) I like the name "Foleo", kinda like "Treo". It should be spelled with an "i" but they spelled it with an "e", how cool is that!

    9) I am morbidly obese and keep losing the Treo in the folds of fat in my body. Plus it will give me an excuse to have bulging pants!
  8. DHart's Avatar
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2714 View Post
    Market size: There will be large companies that deploy Folios to a mobile salesforce. It makes a ton of sense in lowered overhead, and less brain damage for low-tech employees. There will be higher level guys that buy them because it is simpler then a full laptop on the road when all you really need is email, web and simple document support.

    What the Folio-bashers dont get it is, sometimes simple is GOOD. Ive been realizing of late that, based on some changes to the way I'm conducting business lately, I may need to get a laptop. To me, this means one of two scenarios (or something in-between): ALWAYS being tethethered to a lower power computer, with a smaller keyboard and screen then I have now, and reconnecting cables and network connections every time I come and go from the office, -OR- spending a ton of money on a high-end laptop and docking station for convenience and to avoid sacrificing computing power at the office. It would also mean a more strict document backup regimen, which I dont really want to screw with any more then I do now.

    All this just so I can type a little longer emails, and read 10 page documents on the road. Its overkill. I dont WANT or NEED my whole PC in my briefcase- there are too many downsides for me and many of my peers.

    So, if Good ends up supporting Folio, if it will get me a decent VPN connection, and if the price gets down to, say $350, it will be a very compelling product for me. Several hundred bucks for a device that I will use sporadically to supplement my Treo when Im on the road for extended periods, and will fit unobtrusively in my briefcase might make better sense then a full-blown laptop for me-- and for a LOT of people I know.

    (If your best response to this is: what department at Palm do you work in-- well, that's pretty weak. Learn to hold a conversation)
    Thank you. Treo Central is full of people who assume that THEIR desires are EVERYONE's desires. If you want to verify this, wait ten minutes until another "I want wi-fi/You're an *****!" thread breaks out.

    Jeff Hawkins and Palm are not the idiots that many people make them out to be. I don't know if the Foleo will be a success or not. But I suspect the folks screaming about the eminent demise of both Foleo and Palm are wrong.

    I agree with a lot of what you say.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by tirk View Post
    I don't wholly disagree, though I really think it's got to be cheaper than a laptop to sell to business, and $350 is marginal.

    However, can it support VPN or more demanding email applications? If it can't run youtube due to processor limitations, I wonder. Can they get the price down by more than 30% from list? If they need to uprate the processor just to add basic functionality, I wonder.

    And if most of the Palm fans here don't like it, who'll buy it anyway?
    Goodlink isnt 'demanding' at all, so Im sure it will get ported over (and, yeah- without the corporate outlook-mirror clients like Good, the Folio will fail-io. Palm certainly knows this). On the VPN, we'll wait and see-- I hope so. A bigger issue might be working with my companies intranet on the slimmed-down browser. That isnt a deal-killer for me, but it'd be an enourmous selling point. And any company likely to do a big deployment will certainly have a mobile-friendly version of needed in-house resources for field people anyway

    Even if the hardware cost were the same as a laptop (and I dont think it will be- consider that most corporate IT depts will only support a limited number of makes and models- my company wont touch anything not Dell- not likely the bargain basement ones), Ive gotta think that the savings will be huge in IT and associated support, especially in a big deployment.

    The very small representation of Palm 'fans' on this site is hardly a cross-section of users! I have a ton of co-workers with 700p's, for example, and I guarantee that I'm the only one aware of the pending service release (I doubt that the rest of them are even aware that a fix is needed, for that matter!)

    As far as cost, $350 would be a pretty small part of my overall business expenses for the year. If it were strictly a personal purchase, I might balk at it for the added personal functionality Id get. As a business expense, its fine, and if it saves me a half dozen trips into the office over the course of the year (and I think that is almost a certainty, even without good VPN support. Its a guarantee with it), it would be money well spent.
  10. fredc1's Avatar
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       #30  
    Much of the Foleo bashing here is from folks with the same mindset as those who would criticize the production of two seater sports car because it doesn't meet there needs since there is no luggage space, room for their family of five, etc., etc. They need to understand that it wasn't meant for them and they should just let go of their anguish over it. They portray themselves as having been victimized by the introduction of the Foleo since they bought into the overblown hype that was perpetrated on them, not so much by Palm, but by themselves and other members of the technogeek community. They are victims, but of their own expectations. They are simply mad that Palm didn't come out with a product just for them, and now they might have to wait longer for the product that satisfies the market niche in which they happen to exist.

    But, there have been plenty of reasonable folks posting reasonable explanations of the circumstances under which a Foleo might be a good buy for them. If the Foleo can deliver as promised, even as limited as it now is understood to be, it will still be a good choice for some people. I have heard a case made for students, execs, sales people, stay-at-home wives, grandparents, mobile service techs, and a few others. Taken all together, this might be enough to get this product line rolling and, maybe then, as prices come down and real users provide Palm and software developers with real-user feedback that can be translated to more powerful functionality, this can develop into something that will wow us.

    I'll buy it and try it, and if it sucks I'll return or resell it. But I won't get so angry and hung up over it's failure and be so critical of Palm for trying.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    Much of the Foleo bashing here is from folks with the same mindset as those who would criticize the production of two seater sports car because it doesn't meet there needs since there is no luggage space, room for their family of five, etc., etc. They need to understand that it wasn't meant for them and they should just let go of their anguish over it. They portray themselves as having been victimized by the introduction of the Foleo since they bought into the overblown hype that was perpetrated on them, not so much by Palm, but by themselves and other members of the technogeek community. They are victims, but of their own expectations. They are simply mad that Palm didn't come out with a product just for them, and now they might have to wait longer for the product that satisfies the market niche in which they happen to exist.

    But, there have been plenty of reasonable folks posting reasonable explanations of the circumstances under which a Foleo might be a good buy for them. If the Foleo can deliver as promised, even as limited as it now is understood to be, it will still be a good choice for some people. I have heard a case made for students, execs, sales people, stay-at-home wives, grandparents, mobile service techs, and a few others. Taken all together, this might be enough to get this product line rolling and, maybe then, as prices come down and real users provide Palm and software developers with real-user feedback that can be translated to more powerful functionality, this can develop into something that will wow us.

    I'll buy it and try it, and if it sucks I'll return or resell it. But I won't get so angry and hung up over it's failure and be so critical of Palm for trying.
    Bad comparison. People buy sportscars because they're fast and perform well, even if they're not as big or roomy as other cars. We've already seen <cough>YouTube</cough> that this thing doesn't perform well at all.

    We did not bring this hype on ourselves, that was Palm's doing. They said this announcement was going to be the next big thing in mobile computing, they stated over and over that it's revolutionary. What we were shown yesterday is anything but. It's been done hundreds of times before, by many companies, all around the globe, for over 10 years. None of them have stuck around. A thin client is not a new idea. A "not a laptop but looks like a laptop" has been done before and never caught on. Devices that had keyboards and bigger screens that paired with your phone for email and internet were all the rage in Japan about 7 years ago, and they died quietly because all that functionality is now included in the smartphone.

    There is nothing new about this. It's a poor excuse for a laptop boasting specs that might have been standard 5-10 years ago. It's behind the times.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  12. DHart's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    Much of the Foleo bashing here is from folks with the same mindset as those who would criticize the production of two seater sports car because it doesn't meet there needs since there is no luggage space, room for their family of five, etc., etc. They need to understand that it wasn't meant for them and they should just let go of their anguish over it. They portray themselves as having been victimized by the introduction of the Foleo since they bought into the overblown hype that was perpetrated on them, not so much by Palm, but by themselves and other members of the technogeek community. They are victims, but of their own expectations. They are simply mad that Palm didn't come out with a product just for them, and now they might have to wait longer for the product that satisfies the market niche in which they happen to exist.

    But, there have been plenty of reasonable folks posting reasonable explanations of the circumstances under which a Foleo might be a good buy for them. If the Foleo can deliver as promised, even as limited as it now is understood to be, it will still be a good choice for some people. I have heard a case made for students, execs, sales people, stay-at-home wives, grandparents, mobile service techs, and a few others. Taken all together, this might be enough to get this product line rolling and, maybe then, as prices come down and real users provide Palm and software developers with real-user feedback that can be translated to more powerful functionality, this can develop into something that will wow us.

    I'll buy it and try it, and if it sucks I'll return or resell it. But I won't get so angry and hung up over it's failure and be so critical of Palm for trying.
    Exactly.
  13. tirk's Avatar
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2714 View Post
    Goodlink isnt 'demanding' at all...
    Possibly not on a Treo, but then again my T680 runs video flawlessly - something the Foleo apparently can't do.
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  14. #34  
    Ok, let me rephrase-- Since the basic info that would need to be synched by Good is essentially the same as the built-in stuff, I anticipate no issues. And, again, Palm certainly knows how widely deployed Good and similar products are by corporate users (I dont know anyone that uses the Treo for business that uses Versamail, though some use the built-in contacts and calendar). I'd bet real money that Good, Sprint BizConnect, others are already planning a rollout of Folio-friendly clients.

    And, if not, Im not buying one.
  15. jimn367's Avatar
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    #35  
    Why would I consider a Foleo?
    1) I can't stand having to lug my 7 lb laptop + lbs accessories on travel. It puts a total shoulder weight of about 17 lbs once I pack evrything I need

    2) My laptop takes a lot of space and forces me to either sacrifice the other things I want to take with me (documentation, ipod + accessories, noise cancelling headphones,...) OR drag out my large backpack

    3) I can't use my laptop on a standard fare seat on an aircraft without holding it like a V. The only way it's usable is exit row or first class. IF it is one of the Express Jets forget about it

    4) My lappie lasts about 1.5-2 hours. With 5 hours I probably don't even have to bring a charging cable on 2 day trips.

    5) Instant on. With all of the IT security crap my laptop takes a minute or more to boot.

    6) My IT department will provide me with a decent laptop, but will never shell out the $$$ for the perenially more expensive thin and light laptops

    7) It appears to follow the Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS) philosophy

    8) My laptop is a work appliance to me. Standard Ofice Apps + some WiFi surfing at the airport/hotel/sometimes at home

    [Now my caveats] If this thig is truly transportable from treo to smartphone to blackberry to applephone and I don't need IT to do BES mods for Blackberry support then I will welcome bringing some PAlm goodness to my IT approved Blackberry version off Dante's Inferno.

    There really are people in the world who like Jornada 720's - they were just too expensive and died at the hands of the Ipaq.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by wbwjr View Post
    Do you work for Palm?
    why does everyone who has a posative opion work at plam ???
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  17. jimn367's Avatar
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    #37  
    All I can say is that the Zire 2X series were some of the most ridiculed, but best selling, Palms of all time.

    I've said this before under different contexts - people on this board are powergeeks [with pride]. If the device doesn't push technology then it is ridiculed.

    The Foleo does not push technology, let's wait and see if it integrates it better and is a useful appliance.

    I don't know what the fate of the Foleo will be, but it's worth a wait and see rather than "I hate it because it is not an uber treo with GPS, 300G flash memory, and one of those new fangled death lasers"
  18. #38  
    Not all of us with a positive opinion work for or at Palm.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by B-model View Post
    why does everyone who has a posative opion work at plam ???
  19. jimn367's Avatar
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by mc2714 View Post
    As far as cost, $350 would be a pretty small part of my overall business expenses for the year. If it were strictly a personal purchase, I might balk at it for the added personal functionality Id get. As a business expense, its fine, and if it saves me a half dozen trips into the office over the course of the year (and I think that is almost a certainty, even without good VPN support. Its a guarantee with it), it would be money well spent.

    Yepper - this is a business appliance, not an ubergeek toy.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimn367 View Post
    Yepper - this is a business appliance, not an ubergeek toy.
    Not really... can't be used in my business... well, it could, but a laptop has all the other tools I need for business... I think many will find that is the case as well.

    far as businesses, they will keep on buying laptops... but they MAY use Palm's device to cut better deals with dell or HP... lol...
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