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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    First, I have bought a couple subnotebooks (tax deductible as you noted) and not been that pleased with them.
    You don't explain why you were dissatisfied, but if it was performance, keyboard size, screen size, or lack of features, you're likely heading down the same path again.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    Second, I doubt that your billable hours are billed at $500/hour. Perhaps they are billed at $250/hour. In which case your billable hours would make up the difference in price in 4 hours of the least expensive notebook on there. However, most of them (all but one actually) cost $2000 more than the Foleo will cost, or more.
    Your math is sound - your estimation of rates is not. Still, I saw a Vaio UX380N at Best Buy yesterday for $1,650 here in DC (not even on sale). 1 GB ram, 40 GB hard drive, built-in wireless (BT, wifi, Cingular), and easily 6 hours continuous use with the extended battery (or more using instant on from sleep during productivity gaps) - all under 2 pounds. The keyboard and screen are minuscule though - but the software it runs is unlimited.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    In what way is a subnotebook, of any sort, going to provide me with more value than a Foleo? Assuming, of course, the Foleo performs as advertised.
    I agree. If you have limited computing requirements, it's possible the Foleo's capabilities might accidentally match up with your needs. However, if it's only a little bit off the mark, there's simply no way to to expand it or improve it - it's all you get. Subnotebooks, on the other hand, are robust enough to meet your initial requirements and grow if your requirements change.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    The ASUS is interesting. But, can you open it up, have it automatically connect to your Treo when there's no available WiFi? I can't easily do that with my nc4400 right now, why would I expect another general purpose computer to behave that way?
    The beauty of a "real" computer: If it doesn't have built in WWAN (Wireless WAN), you can sync up/link up via BT. If it doesn't have BT, you can use a wireless aircard in the (industry standard) USB port with (industry standard) drivers. However, I've only read a hint of its capabilities so far. More will be known as its release date approaches.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    Will it easily synch my email and contacts? For all that we brag about our Treo's and laptops, I haven't found it to be as if they are a single tied together group of devices. Loosely coupled is more like it.
    Amen to that brother. Treo connectivity has always been inconsistent at best - abysmal at worst. I get much better BT connectivity service from my Moto Q out of the box: Syncs continuously with office notebook until I leave the office where it syncs with my car's headset until I get home and it syncs with my home computer. That Palm would try to lay claim to some sort of magical Treo/Foleo communion is laughable given their long-standing, poor track record at getting Treo BT capability to function properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    First, I have no need to shill for this product. Second, just because I disagree with you does not make me a shill. Reminds me of why I dislike electronic forums.
    Do you equally dislike people who join a long standing community and feel they can jump in with two feet and tell the majority of the posters why they're wrong? Is there balance in your universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    Yes, I'm a member of ASIS. Why?
    I was for years (in the 90s) and was going to recommend it to you. I still stay in touch with the folks in the association offices - it's a generally good group, although Michael Stack can be frustrating at times.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    I'm going to ask this. All you folks that think a laptop and a Treo are the way to go instead, explain to me what the laptop gives me that the Foleo doesn't. Be nice and specific please.
    I think I did already but here's why I think the laptop approach is a better one now that I've heard what a Foleo can (and can't) do:
    - Does all the things a Foleo can do, at a comparable weight/size, with similar connectivity
    - Generally more options for Wireless WAN connectivity
    - Vastly greater selection of software support
    - Wider range of hardware selection
    - Significantly greater choice of peripherals
    - Room for growth: Sometimes in hardware, always in software, usually with the mission the laptop is supporting

    One trick ponies have none of these features. One trick ponies run the risk of being outdone by another, slightly better one-trick pony. $600 one-trick ponies are ripe targets for multi-trick ponies with lower price tags, thus making the one-trick pony a nicely built, somewhat expensive, ribbed-case, paperweight.
  2. #222  
    (ahem). I've been here on TC a little while. I run around on planes a lot. I DO bill my time at $500/hour. I'm kinda dim on the Foleo, but will keep a open mind.

    But it strikes me that (oooh, boy, here it comes) some of the participants on this thread are hanging on to the anti-Foleo perspective and are unwilling to admit that there MIGHT be someone out there (oh, hypothetically, ecowper for one) who sees a use for such a machine.

    Observation: ecowper can like the Foleo and buy one. Someone who hates the Foleo can continue to hate it. This is not an either/or world. It is an "AND" world. Both states can co-exist.

    Observation: apparently Rule 62(a) is in full effect here.

    Welcome, ecowper, to the playpen.
  3. #223  
    Kupe, I have a sub 4 pound laptop. Every time I get on an airplane and open it, I get a bit grumpier with it.

    About Bluetooth, I have a Treo 650 and really have no issues with it. I keep hearing about issues, but don't experience them. I use a Jabra JX10 headset (only one I've found that I really liked, after trying a bunch) and I use Bluetooth to sync with my laptop. When I say loosely coupled, I mean that getting documents, mail, contacts, and calendar back and forth between the laptop and Treo is an asynchronous event that I have to explicitly call for. True coupling would mean it would happen synchronously without me having to do something to make it happen. I really have no personal experience that says that Bluetooth on Treo doesn't work well. Just the opposite, actually.

    The ASUS Eee could well be the deal I've been looking for, although the screen might be a bit small. 10 inch 16:9 aspect ratio seems to be about right. My big complaints with other subnotebooks was poor WiFi implementation, cramped keyboard, poor displays. The WiFi was the biggest problem, followed closely by the keyboard. Foleo is supposed to have a full (probably 10mm) keyboard. That's pretty similar to the Thinkpad X series, which has a great keyboard. If Foleo and the ASUS don't pan out, I'll buy an X series and just be grumpy about the price.
  4. #224  
    Do you equally dislike people who join a long standing community and feel they can jump in with two feet and tell the majority of the posters why they're wrong? Is there balance in your universe?
    Shrugs, you think there's balance to calling every single person in the Foleo discussion threads who likes the Foleo that they are a shill for Palm?
    Last edited by ecowper; 06/10/2007 at 05:25 PM. Reason: 'cause that sentence made no sense at all.
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    Foleo is supposed to have a full (probably 10mm) keyboard.
    I've read the claim too but I'd like to see some real specs on that. If the Foleo really does have a full-sized keyboard then all credit to Palm - they seem to have done exactly what they should have done (IMHO), i.e. make it as small as a full-sized keyboard allows. For sure it leaves a lot to be desired in other respects, but a full-sized keyboard gives it some usability that any significantly smaller device just can't match.
  6. #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by marcol View Post
    I've read the claim too but I'd like to see some real specs on that. If the Foleo really does have a full-sized keyboard then all credit to Palm - they seem to have done exactly what they should have done (IMHO), i.e. make it as small as a full-sized keyboard allows. For sure it leaves a lot to be desired in other respects, but a full-sized keyboard gives it some usability that any significantly smaller device just can't match.
    One of the points I've been trying to make is that true UMPC's are too small (not to mention costly) and the ultraportables are mostly too costly. Notice, though, that the Sony VAIO TX series and Lenovo Thinkpad X series have 10mm keyboards and screens between 10 and 12 inches. This seems to be the sweet spot to actually be able to work. At least until true virtual computing (i.e. projected in front of your eyes) comes to the table.
  7. #227  
    it makes me laugh thinking back to the countless posts coming from Treo-ists defending how they could do loads of work on their beloved Treo's keyboard. now the argument is that you need a full-sized keyboard coupled with a 10-12inch screen to achieve the working size "sweet spot."

    which is it?

    so funny
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    it makes me laugh thinking back to the countless posts coming from Treo-ists defending how they could do loads of work on their beloved Treo's keyboard. now the argument is that you need a full-sized keyboard coupled with a 10-12inch screen to achieve the working size "sweet spot."

    which is it?

    so funny
    It's neither and it's obvious.

    I don't write journal articles on my Treo. I don't make Powerpoint presentations on my Treo. I don't index and save all my .PDF articles on my Treo (let alone read 30-50 pages of PDF).

    In other words a computer-type device is still needed for the larger-tasks.

    All smartphones and ppcs are excellent viewers for data (small amounts), reading emails and having information sent to you e.g. scheduling, directions, client information pushed to you via Exchange.

    For making data though, they are limited by their keyboards and screen size. They are excellent though for responding to emails, SMS and viewing information (in small doses) like RSS.

    The fact is, when traveling (what the Foleo is meant for) you can either buy a laptop or a Foleo and bring one with you with your Treo (or any other smartphone).

    Whether a Foleo is enough for you or you need a laptop, depends on your profession and preferences. I actually have a sweet 3.2 lb Asus laptop. I want a Foleo though b/c it is exactly what I need.

    This says nothing about how I think the Foleo is hardly radical or revolutionary (it's not) and is lacking (technologically and in innovation). It is yet surprisingly it's also what I need when I travel the country or on the train during commuting.

    My laptop is simply not practical and is way overkill for my needs. The keyword here is Simplicity.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    it makes me laugh thinking back to the countless posts coming from Treo-ists defending how they could do loads of work on their beloved Treo's keyboard. now the argument is that you need a full-sized keyboard coupled with a 10-12inch screen to achieve the working size "sweet spot."

    which is it?

    so funny
    Well, I'm not a "Treo-ist". I use my Treo for very quick access to email and calendar, but I can't do "loads of work" on it and I've never claimed to. In fact, I have consistently said, in the few posts I've made, that I need more than a Treo, but less than a general purpose notebook, to work effectively.

    So, if there are folks who make such claims, I'm sort of inclined to disbelieve them. I spend most of my time in a mobile environment. The Treo is great for what it can accomplish, but not a platform to do "loads of work" on.
  10. #230  
    great. super. now i've unearthed two of you. maybe in soon time most all Treo users will come out of the closet and state the same. exactly what i've been after and that is that so many around here don't even need a Treo.

    enjoy your Fooleo (or whatever it's called)
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by Malatesta View Post
    It's neither and it's obvious.

    I don't write journal articles on my Treo. I don't make Powerpoint presentations on my Treo. I don't index and save all my .PDF articles on my Treo (let alone read 30-50 pages of PDF).

    In other words a computer-type device is still needed for the larger-tasks.

    All smartphones and ppcs are excellent viewers for data (small amounts), reading emails and having information sent to you e.g. scheduling, directions, client information pushed to you via Exchange.

    For making data though, they are limited by their keyboards and screen size. They are excellent though for responding to emails, SMS and viewing information (in small doses) like RSS.

    The fact is, when traveling (what the Foleo is meant for) you can either buy a laptop or a Foleo and bring one with you with your Treo (or any other smartphone).

    Whether a Foleo is enough for you or you need a laptop, depends on your profession and preferences. I actually have a sweet 3.2 lb Asus laptop. I want a Foleo though b/c it is exactly what I need.

    This says nothing about how I think the Foleo is hardly radical or revolutionary (it's not) and is lacking (technologically and in innovation). It is yet surprisingly it's also what I need when I travel the country or on the train during commuting.

    My laptop is simply not practical and is way overkill for my needs. The keyword here is Simplicity.
    That's the problem though. $600 for simplicity. Too much for too little.

    If they're really going to sell that Asus(I think) minilaptop for only $200 and maybe a beefed up version for $400, what kind of value is the Folio? Also, low end new laptops are $600. Why pay $600 for less options?
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    it makes me laugh thinking back to the countless posts coming from Treo-ists defending how they could do loads of work on their beloved Treo's keyboard. now the argument is that you need a full-sized keyboard coupled with a 10-12inch screen to achieve the working size "sweet spot."

    which is it?

    so funny
    The ones who say they do lots of work probably do. They have to use the Treo(or some other smartphone) because they can't have a laptop with them all the time. The sweet spot IS to have a full screen and keyboard, but impratical sometimes. You can't pull out a laptop everywhere, but work still has to be done. So it's the Treo or some other PDA phone.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  13. #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    great. super. now i've unearthed two of you. maybe in soon time most all Treo users will come out of the closet and state the same. exactly what i've been after and that is that so many around here don't even need a Treo.

    enjoy your Fooleo (or whatever it's called)
    Why do you have to be so condescending and antagonistic?

    All I did was state my opinion here which is the minority. Who said anything about not needing a Treo? For day-to-day operations, the Treo is what I need. I can't take calls on my laptop.

    Why do you feel you have to condemn those who do not agree with your dismissal of the Foleo?

    This place is ridiculous. I don't post to be mocked by people with agendas.

    WMExperts: News, Reviews & Podcasts + Twitter
  14. #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by oalvarez View Post
    great. super. now i've unearthed two of you. maybe in soon time most all Treo users will come out of the closet and state the same. exactly what i've been after and that is that so many around here don't even need a Treo.

    enjoy your Fooleo (or whatever it's called)
    Malatesta's right about the antagonism in response to different opinions. What's the point of being so threatened by a perspective that does you no harm?

    We nerds have a rep. for being this way and, I've gotta say, it's well-deserved. I say "we" because I'm a part of many geek-circles, including this online community, and maybe there are times when I'm guilty of this, myself. This forum and the people in it have quite a bit to offer. Looking over this very thread is proof enough that there are some great minds here.

    When we push new members and new perspectives away we're hurting ourselves as much anything else.

    It's time to wake... No. It's time to grow up.
    * Stuck patches? Partial erase worked for me.
    * Stuck virtual keyboard? Partial erase AND folder deletion worked for me.
  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by ecowper View Post
    So, if there are folks who make such claims, I'm sort of inclined to disbelieve them. I spend most of my time in a mobile environment. The Treo is great for what it can accomplish, but not a platform to do "loads of work" on.
    exactly. the claims by some are almost laughable. how does someone do real spreadsheet work on a Treo? how many cell references can you actually see? type lengthy word documents on a small keyboard? Treos and other PDA/Smartphones do a good job of getting us by when away from a PC/laptop but they are definitely not laptop replacements. at least i will never believe such. but the problem i have with the Foleo is that it does less than a typical laptop, LOTS LESS, is laptop-ish in size, needs a Treo to accompany it, all for the price that is just slightly less than a laptop and actually more than what Asus has lined up.

    if you can't carry a laptop how can you carry a Foleo?

    oh well.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by fredc1 View Post
    Much of the Foleo bashing here is from folks with the same mindset as those who would criticize the production of two seater sports car because it doesn't meet there needs since there is no luggage space, room for their family of five, etc., etc. ...
    Perfect.
  17. #237  
    No it's not. The sports cars have more to offer than this thing!! Like style, coolness and some serious power under the hood!!
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  18. fredc1's Avatar
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       #238  
    I wouldn't say a Karmann Ghia or Honda Del Sol had any sort of serious power under their hoods. But they did have the style and coolness factor, which are purely, and exclusively, matters of personal taste. And I don't see many negative posts simply bashing the Foleo on either of those two points anyway.

    Nothing I have seen since I began this thread has convinced me to abandon my plan to get my hands on a Foleo to see if it does what it is made to do. I know it can't play DVDs, stream video, burn CDs, allow me run my MS Access databases, edit pics, make my dinner, walk the dog, or tuck me into bed at night. But it just might do enough to make my load a bit lighter and my life a bit simpler at some times on some days...which can be enough for me to justify the cost.
  19. #239  
    Here is a great read on the fool-e-o device.
    The reader comments are even better.This link may already be posted in thread hmm I dont know.
    http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/30/p...ced/1#comments
  20. #240  
    as an analyst might ask, what is it about the Foleo that makes your load a bit lighter and your life a bit simpler, at some times on some days? don't you need your Treo and your Foleo, together?

    we know that laptops can do a whole lot more (and i mean a lot). so what is so much easier and more simple about the Foleo? what is it that the Foleo can do better than a laptop? what is it that would make people's lives more simple? the vast majority (around here, other places) seem to think that there really isn't a market for this device. so why did Palm design it? didn't they do their market research? or did they just do it that poorly?

    are they really that dumb?
    Last edited by oalvarez; 06/11/2007 at 07:51 PM.
    Blackberry Pearl (AT&T), Apple 3G iPhone,
    owned and used: Treo 750 (WM5, Cingular)
    T680 unlocked (T-Mo), T700wx, T700w, T650, T600
    ppc6600, i730, htc mogul, BB Bold, Curve

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