View Poll Results: Foleo - good or bad?

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  • Foleo is a good thing

    194 37.38%
  • Foleo is a bad thing

    325 62.62%
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  1. #61  
    Not revolutionary, but if they fixed enough problems with previous products in this category, perhaps just by waiting for the technology to hit the right price point, they might sell a reasonable number. Unlike existing notebooks, this folio thing is both lightweight and cheap (Find me a new under-2.5 lb laptop for less than $600. The cheap laptops weigh almost twice as much. As for the lightweight ones, even the old CE clamshells were more like $1k when new.). Unlike previous CE/Newton clamshells, it has linux, bluetooth and wifi built-in. Unlike Treo & similar smart-phones (and the mailstation), your great aunt Marge and the company VP's her age can actually read email on the 10" display. Furthermore that company VP probably has approval to get a Palm/Treo accessory no-problem, whereas IT would throw a fit at a P.O. for a MacBook or linux laptop. Also Apple's MacOSX is gaining market share, and it's BSD unix with a GUI attached by people who would be fired by Jobs for doing something ugly. And this folio thing has linux with a GUI attached by people who hopefully would be fired by Hawkins for doing something too ugly and inhuman.
  2. KAP
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    #62  
    I would have been much happier if they had invested in improved battery life or form factor. I'm a huge Treo fan, but can't get a full day's use out of my 750 with email use and a small-to-intermediate amount of phone calls. This compares poorly to a BB8800.
  3. #63  
    I have always been a huge Palm fan. I owned the very first generation Palm Pilot and have upgraded through the years as new technology enabled devices with more and more functionality. My last "Palm" device was a Treo 650. I eventually dumped that for a BlackBerry 8800. The Treo 650 was an ok PIM device, but suffered from very poor hardware / software integration as a wireless phone. I suffered dropped calls daily and had three different Treo 650 devices. The BlackBerry 8800 is light years beyond the Treo series. I am so very disappointed that Palm has chosen to basically stop providing support for their loyal users. What a waste of a once great and innovative company.

    I don't think they will be able to recover from this.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Because once you get over pocket size small differences in weight become more and more irrelevant. If it's large enough to require it's own bag to carry it in, it becomes harder and harder to notice the difference between 3.5 and 5 lbs.
    The difference is obvious. 5 lbs is painful. 3.5 lbs isn't.

    The acer is 5.3 lbs. And the Foleo is 2.4 lbs, not 3.5 lbs.


    10" and 2.5 lbs is still too large to be truly portable, which in my mind puts it in exactly the same category as that 5 lbs notebook that has 500x the functionality and a price tag $200 less.
    First, it's quite telling that you have to keep doctoring the numbers. Your link is for a laptop which is $100 cheaper (on sale), and is more than twice as heavy. Its original price is the same as that of the Foleo.

    Second, the market has decided that 2.5 lb notebooks are in a very different category from 5 lb laptops - by pricing them 4x higher.
  5. harps70's Avatar
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    #65  
    This poll is missing a third middle ground option of feeling OK but not satisfied by any means.
    As noted by numerious posts prior, this device is not exciting me at all.
    I already have a palm PDA, a BlackBerry and a laptop at work, and a Mac at home, why do I need another laptop device to access what I already have access to.
    The exciting thing about this announcement is the platform used. I want to see it in PDA/Treo!
    Palm IIIx > m505 > Tungsten T > T5 > Red BlackBerry Pearl 8110 (only device work IT will allow!)
  6. #66  
    Bad BAd Bad

    I understand the concept - i really do. Most people here are asking 'why' ... of course we all own Treo's. This 'concept' is more apppealing to a blackberry owner IMO. The problem is the implimentaion - the size, the hardware the lack of applications annoucned.

    Put this thing in one of the crazy pics we all saw - fold out keyboards or rolling screens - and see the repson by everyone... then the concept would actually be supported by the 'product' being delivered.
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    The difference is obvious. 5 lbs is painful. 3.5 lbs isn't.
    Your opinion. I don't find that to be true in my own experience.
    The acer is 5.3 lbs. And the Foleo is 2.4 lbs, not 3.5 lbs.
    I wasn't specifically referencing either device in that statement, just making a comment about the irrelevance of small differences in notebook weight.
    First, it's quite telling that you have to keep doctoring the numbers. Your link is for a laptop which is $100 cheaper (on sale), and is more than twice as heavy. Its original price is the same as that of the Foleo.
    I did not doctor any numbers. The laptop I linked to is a sale price, but is not exactly uncommon. There's another laptop listed for the exact same price on Best Buy right now (that's still in stock) as there is almost every week. This is not an unusual price for budget notebook computers. The price difference I stated was between the price of the notebook without any rebates required and the Palm thing before rebate as this is what you have to dish out of pocket to buy the thing. Palm doesn't exactly have a perfect track record when it comes to rebates, either, which is why I chose not to include that in the price. Mail in rebates are a horrible marketing ploy.
    Visor Edge + VisorPhone -> Samsung i300 -> Treo 300 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 700p -> Treo 755
  8. #68  
    I think there are some points that you guys aren't seeing that make things interesting.

    The Foleo is an instant on, solid state, wi-fi enabled, 2.4 pound, inexpensive laptop. If the web browsing and e-mail work well and 3rd party software ramps up, I can see the Foleo becoming the budget mobile computer for the masses.
  9. #69  
    I think there is a niche for this sort of product: flash based, instant on, low power, linuxy, with wireless goodness, and small-ish: too large for pockets, but small enough for a bag.

    But my problems with this is that it's very underwhelming, considering the "2 years in the making" hype.

    Because technologically, it's quite an ordinary thing. It's not filled with some new technology: it was a "make-able" machine from years ago. In the late 90's, HP, NEC etc made things like the Jornada, which were Win CE machines, that were flash-based, colour, keyboarded things. The eMate was a similar thing (earlier), as was the Psion Netbook (later). The Foleo is really just another iteration, albeit with an updated set of technologies. More recently, there's the Nokia Internet Tablet. The One Laptop per child project has produced a bulkier looking, uglier machine. But at US$130.

    A YA-FBK (yet another flash keyboarded machine) wouldn't be too bad a thing, if it brought something newer to the table. e.g: 20 hour battery life, droppable, works with all the Palm software, lower price point etc. As it is, it'll sell. Maybe to a specific crowd: reporters, notetakers, anyone needing a light computer running a spreadsheet, portable data entry...

    Instead, the discriminating feature, is synergy with the Treo. I like the Treo. And integration would be good. But a Treo is made to work with a "mother computer", which implies owning a Windows/Mac already. The Foleo AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK $doesn$'$t$ $replace$ $that$. $OK$, $ignoring$ $that$ $for$ $now$: $I$ $suppose$ $the$ $Treo$ $would$ $talk$ $to$ $the$ $Foleo$ $via$ $Bluetooth$. ($Most$) $every$ $Treo$ $680$ $owner$ $finds$ $that$ $keeping$ $BT$ $on$ $is$ $a$ $luxury$, $battery$-$wise$. $Does$ $the$ $Foleo$ $act$ $as$ $a$ $surrogate$ $battery$ $for$ $the$ $Treo$? $Better$ $carry$ $that$ $USB$ $hotsync$ $cable$.

    The Foleo carrys no baggage of backwards compatibility, which is good. But also a curse: no Adobe Flash? no printers? New set of apps? What about PDF? Reminds me a bit of Be (who owns Be...?) Could be wrong of course, the Linux guys could pull through.

    The Treo has other problems of it's own. The awesome but aging Palm OS is Palm's primary OS. It has overstayed it's welcome, becoming the System 7/Mac OS 8/9 of this computing generation. And yet Palm is distracted by expanding into new territories by going first into Windows Mobile, and now Linux/laptops. Palm traditionally neglects the Palm OS: it kept the memopad at 4k for years, incrementally upgraded the DateBook while Visor licensed DateBk3/4, semi-abandoned Mac users once, then twice, introduced the Notepad, then removed it; moved from Graffiti, to Graffiti 2..., announced Garnet, OS 6, then lost it.

    It's not just the software either: I've already mentioned the battery thing. More symptoms: the lack of processor upgrades, or camera upgrades in the last 2 years. The lack of foresight in adopting, then abandoning the "Universal interface", the lack of Wifi, even when using a Wifi SD card. Remember the delays in adopting hi-res screens/hi-res+ screens, the delay in getting expandable memory (TRG/Handera), or having true access such expandable space (PowerRun, VFS or whatever).

    Palm has addressed some of these problems, but haphazardly, and today delivers such an underwhelming device. Palm lost it's way years ago, but still treaded water, aided by the jewel which was the Palm OS. Today, if Palm had not released anything, it would be just another day. Instead, they continue to rub salt into the wound, which is the continuing irrelevance of the Palm OS.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by CountBuggula View Post
    Your opinion. I don't find that to be true in my own experience.
    My experience says it's fact. I used to carry a ThinkPad 600 series, which was about 5 lbs. And my department had a few ThinkPad 240 notebooks, which were about 3 lbs and which I loved to borrow.

    It sounds like you're just assuming things.


    And you ignored the point about the 4x price difference in 2.5 lb notebooks and 5 lb laptops. If there is no difference, why are people willing to pay $1500 more for the lighter one?

    Have you shorted PALM? That would explain why you'd argue that you can't tell the difference between 2.5 lbs and 5 lbs.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by qxhpbd6 View Post
    The Foleo carrys no baggage of backwards compatibility, which is good. But also a curse: no Adobe Flash? no printers? New set of apps? What about PDF?
    Foleo handles Flash and pdf files. But the processor is too slow to handle YouTube movies smoothly.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHart View Post
    I think the Foleo announcement was very strategically timed for May 30, just before the announcement of the availability of the iPhone. I have no insight other than the original announcement about June availability for the iPhone.
    Why would that be? So that everyone can see how truly pathetic Palm is and run like the wind over to Apple?

    Seems to me that the timing is lousy:
    Apple: Innovative
    Palm: Old and boring
    Palm V --> Clie 610 --> Kyocera 7135 --> Treo 600 ("verizonfied") --> Treo 650 ("verizonfied") --> Vz Treo 700p -->AT&T Tilt
  13. #73  
    Hawkins specifically mentions that his vision is for the smartphone/foleo combination to become the primary computing device for most. Palm's website also specifically mentions editing documents; although, I did not see any mention of the specific software to accomplish this. As long as you can work with spreadsheets/wordprocessing documents/presentations, surf the web and sync with the Treo I could see people making this their primary computing set-up. I think the ultimate success of the device depends on reasonable software support and syncing beyond just what has been mentioned.

    Of course those who want bleeding edge devices, price point be d@#^ed, were not going to be happy with whatever Hawkins was realistically going to introduce. It's not a scientific survey, or anything, but the couple other professionals I got to look at the foleo on Palm's website were pretty excited about the idea.

    Gargoyle
  14. #74  
    If the Foleo were just an accessory it would be awesome. It's essentially a BT keyboard on Steroids! But sadly, palm hyed it up too much and it fell WAAAYYYY below expectations.

    I say drop to price to around $200 and sell it as a BT accessory.
  15. #75  
    5 hours battery life? They should have aimed for 8.

    And with as much trouble as I have linking a bt headset to my treo, what is it going to be like connecting to this thing?
  16. #76  
    it feels like an accessory ... but ... just maybe ... there will be folllowing announcments about new applications being built that can make this alot more ... maybe ... hoping ..possilbe .. please
    da Gimp

    Please note: My spelling sucks and I'm to lazy to check it.
  17. D-Bo's Avatar
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    #77  
    RIP Palm, I don't think they'll weather this colossal failure...
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by gargoylejps View Post
    Hawkins specifically mentions that his vision is for the smartphone/foleo combination to become the primary computing device for most. Palm's website also specifically mentions editing documents; although, I did not see any mention of the specific software to accomplish this. As long as you can work with spreadsheets/wordprocessing documents/presentations, surf the web and sync with the Treo I could see people making this their primary computing set-up. I think the ultimate success of the device depends on reasonable software support and syncing beyond just what has been mentioned.

    Of course those who want bleeding edge devices, price point be d@#^ed, were not going to be happy with whatever Hawkins was realistically going to introduce. It's not a scientific survey, or anything, but the couple other professionals I got to look at the foleo on Palm's website were pretty excited about the idea.
    Palm seems to be the only one to want to enter this market. Unfortunately, I don't think that releasing the Foleo reflects that they have leapt a technological/price hurdle to do so. I think there are few similar machines out there because the demand just isn't there. And if Foleo triggers off such a demand, then other makers will enter the market, and create machines at a "proper" price point. Which I suspect is < $500.

    Palm's unique feature is the Treo connectivity. Which is fine. But I think it's a weak trump card. It would be stronger, if Treo had a strong OS/compelling hardware to start with. But it doesn't. Over the years Palm has squandered the goodwill among it's fans, and I doubt the brand itself is strong enough to attract new users to Treo, or even current Treo users to the Foleo.

    In fact, I think that if Palm made this machine agnostic, i.e. compatible with the larger PDA market: i.e. the Symbians and Windows Mobile machines as well, that they had a better chance to make the Foleo more relevant.

    IMHO, 3com Audrey redux.
  19. #79  
    Foleo sounds like failure to me now.. So bloody disappointed!!!!!!!

    I rather pay more to get a Sony VAIO TX series notebook with a 11" screen, weighs a mere 1.25kg and have 5-9 hrs battery life.

    http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-tx56gn_w/

    http://vaio-online.sony.com/prod_info/vgn-tx57gn_b/

    Hell ya it cost much more, but it does much more too.
    Dark Lord of the Sith...
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  20. #80  
    NO I do not work for Palm

    Is this a laptop equivalent - NO

    Do most people really need the power of a laptop - No

    I think many people buy laptops because they want portability and primarily use them for surfing the web, doing e-mails and things like sync to PDA or updating calendar or light duty to do lists, or letters etc.

    I also think a lot of people don't buy laptops because of the price (they go for the $600 desktop from Dell) I think of aging parents who like to check e-mail, play solitaire etc, but never even begin to use the power of a PC (of course the drawback with my logic is that they would apparently need a PDA to access the net OR did I read that this has Wi Fi ).

    I think if this thing had a tablet version it would be really cool.

    I travel a lot and my company "forbids" use of the company laptop to check personal e-mails, surf net etc...so have often wanted a very light/small laptop to do that type thing (Treo is just too small for that for very long).

    I think it could be useful for college students to take notes in classes and then when they get to a wi fi spot they could check e-mails etc.

    Does it have printer capabilities?

    Like someone said - maybe the processor is too slow to do UTube (If so...they messed up because the apple store is always full of kids on utube and my space).

    So - I want to learn more, but generally I see it as a possible new niche. I do think the next version will be much more robust, and I do wonder if they will eventually offer a foldout screen for use with the Treo. Just read about razor thin flexible video screens that are out now...so why not. Take that and an improved version of the infared keyboard and it would be a heck of a lot better than lugging these 3-5 lb laptops around. That really gets old flying each week with a laptop and another 5-10 pounds in the briefcase.
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