View Poll Results: Foleo - good or bad?

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  • Foleo is a good thing

    194 37.38%
  • Foleo is a bad thing

    325 62.62%
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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post
    4. The CPU and memory provided on the eeepc are only twice the MINIMUM system requirements for its OS. Now consider the fact that Windows XP's minimum requirements are published as 233 Mhz and 128 MB RAM. Can anyone possibly envision running XP on 256 MB of RAM ....or even 512?
    You say this as if PCs always shipped with 1 or 2GB of RAM. When XP was launched, systems were still shipping with no more than 256 or 512. Obviously you won't be able to run many apps at the same time as your RAM will start caching to the storage big time. But you can still run just fine on 256 as long as you keep your not trying to run everything at once.
    I'm not going to kid anyone and say it would be snappy, but I think it could perform reasonably.
    Last edited by taylorh; 07/12/2007 at 07:21 PM.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by Q View Post
    On the Foleo vs the eee, which device can I try out before buying? So far, the only way I've seen to get an eee is to order one online, which is fine for getting a lower price, but not good to test it out beforehand.
    I haven't even seen it online yet. But I thought the Asus press release said it would be available in standard retail channels. I took that to assume this meant CompUSA and Microcenter at the minimum.
    Of course I doubt you'll find a demo unit running Windows XP if they have a demo at all. It would likely be running the custom Linux install.
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    You say this as if PCs always shipped with 1 or 2GB of RAM. When XP was launched, systems were still shipping with no more than 256 or 512. Obviously you won't be able to run many apps at the same time as your RAM will start caching to the storage big time. But you can still run just fine on 256 as long as you keep your not trying to run everything at once.
    I'm not going to kid anyone and say it would be snappy, but I think it could perform reasonably.
    right, I run xp pro with 512mb of ram and the original celeron chip on one of my boxes without any problems...
    HTC Touch Pro
  4. #224  
    alright, apperently you didnt take the time to read through what I typed *or* go to the wiki page that I provided so you could view for yourself what is better.

    Alright Jack Naylor, here are your numbers with thier answers:
    1)It was a general overlook to see which device had more features than the other
    2)we can only speculate about things like keyboard confort because no one person has seen both the Eee and Foleo in person to say much of a difference.
    3)The 7" inch screen was a comparison to the mini screen on the Treo you would have to do videos through. Because the CPU on the Foleo is so underpowered it will not be capable of pushing video to the screen at high resolution, any video it will be capable of is going to be a joke for that 10 inch screen.
    4) The Asus Eee, like the Foleo, will ship with a variation of Linux. The difference is this is an x86 OS that is a variant of the Xandros Linux distro that will support all current x86 Linux software. The Eee merely supports Windows XP, it doesnt come with it.
    5) "You also can't argue the distinction that the Foleo is an add on. Most times a Treo / Folio user is going to be just fine using their Treo w/o the foleo whereas the eeepc user must drag out that brick every time they want to do anything."
    Did somebody not go to the sizeasy page I made for this? The Asus Eee is actually not as wide as the Foleo and weighs LESS.....thats right...your wonderful soul devouring Foleo weighs more than a cheaper priced laptop that is 20 times more capable than the Foleo will ever hope for. The Eee also has a start up time of 15 seconds thanks to its solid state memory. If you call that "Lugging out" im afraid your Foleo is a brick.

    Now for your catagories that I "missed"
    1)You cant use the Foleo outside of the breifcase, you can use the TREO outside the breifcase. And with installing a little software the Eee will be just as capable as the Foleo at syncing with the Treo
    2)Usability of the keyboard/inputs - you nor I have been able to try out either one of these devices, the review was simply a comparison of numbers, I mean, I ever listed Wiki articles as my source man. I cant write in the comparison something that nobody, including me, can compare effectively yet
    3)-
    4)Once again, we can only speculate about the usablity of the GUI
    5)I did go over responsiveness in the end, saying that both devices should respond rather quickly because they are both running linux natively
    6)-
    7)Once again - something we can only speculate about. However, if you want to get technical, the Asus Eee is supposed to be shipping with OpenOffice, an office suite that can do just about *everything* MS office can do, a far cry from the underpowered joke that the Foleo offers.

    Your Welcome
  5. #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by taylorh View Post
    You say this as if PCs always shipped with 1 or 2GB of RAM. When XP was launched, systems were still shipping with no more than 256 or 512. Obviously you won't be able to run many apps at the same time as your RAM will start caching to the storage big time. But you can still run just fine on 256 as long as you keep your not trying to run everything at once.
    I'm not going to kid anyone and say it would be snappy, but I think it could perform reasonably.
    Running programs like Acrobat, Powerpoint, databases , crawled on even 512. Light web surfing and Wordpad was about all peeps can do.....and I say that from having upgraded many many friends and associates PC's who didn't use enough grains of salt when reading MS's advertised specs. And forget multimedia or gaming.
  6. #226  
    Quote Originally Posted by NuttyPro67 View Post
    alright, apperently you didnt take the time to read through what I typed *or* go to the wiki page that I provided so you could view for yourself what is better.
    Wrong on both counts.

    1)It was a general overlook to see which device had more features than the other
    Those kinda justifications is the kind we are used to hearing from Washington....it's generally called "spin".

    2)we can only speculate about things like keyboard confort because no one person has seen both the Eee and Foleo in person to say much of a difference.
    Wrong again....look at the same info and links you provided.....look at the pictures......note the width of the kb's compared to the device. Fingers have a specific width, once you get below standard size, bigger is always better.

    3)The 7" inch screen was a comparison to the mini screen on the Treo you would have to do videos through. Because the CPU on the Foleo is so underpowered it will not be capable of pushing video to the screen at high resolution, any video it will be capable of is going to be a joke for that 10 inch screen.
    Hmmm....how come we can only "speculate" about keyboard size despite it being quite simple to ascertain and yet here we can define with absolute certainty, the performance of two devices which no independent party has used or tested as yet ? Any judgment of hardware performance is impossible without relevance to the OS and mainly, GUI, it runs on. Look at Vista, they engineered 3 levels of UI into it to compensate for the fact that 90% of the PC's out there can't handle it the setting which is pictured in all the ads. I see nothing in your wiki references about such adjustments so whatever UI is provided by the vendor ya stuck with....out of the box limitations applying.

    4) The Asus Eee, like the Foleo, will ship with a variation of Linux. The difference is this is an x86 OS that is a variant of the Xandros Linux distro that will support all current x86 Linux software.
    Go back and read my post again....all Linux distros are not created equal. You have only an assumption as to what CPU is actually in there, you have no idea what demands the Palm-nux OS will put on it and yet you are ready to draw conclusions. The Palm-nux OS is free from all that x86 compatibility and therefore can be much smaller and efficient.

    5) Did somebody not go to the sizeasy page I made for this? The Asus Eee is actually not as wide as the Foleo and weighs LESS.....thats right...your wonderful soul devouring Foleo weighs more than a cheaper priced laptop that is 20 times more capable than the Foleo will ever hope for. The Eee also has a start up time of 15 seconds thanks to its solid state memory. If you call that "Lugging out" im afraid your Foleo is a brick.
    And wrong yet again. First, it certainly isn't "my foleo" as I was quite clear I would never use one. And, second, perhaps you might address the point ?

    Cause I am not saying the Asus is a brick and the Foleo isn't. Wrong yet again because they are BOTH bricks. The point was, one gives me the freedom of not "needing" to to use the brick to accomplish something, one doesn't. Let me state it simply so it won't be so confusing.

    I am sitting on a plane getting ready to take off....pilot says we gonna be delayed, turns off seat belt sign and says we have about 20 minutes before we get the shut off all devices warning. I wanna check and see if I have any important messages needing answering.

    1. Treo / Foleo user - Whip the Treo out of my pocket and start downloading. "The Brick" (Foleo) is sitting in my briefcase above my head in the luggage compartment. I can check my e-mail without touching my briefcase or anything inside of it. I can answer 90% of my e-mails without touching my briefcase.

    2. Asus USer - Unless you have clown pockets, you ain't whipping anything outta ya pocket. Start off with "excuse me madam, I must get to my briefcase in the compartment above ya head". Get ya briefcase, take out "The Brick" (Asus), boot it, do ya thing, shut it down, ask the lady to move again, get ya breifcase down, put it in briefcase, close the latches, put it back up in luggage compartment.

    1)You cant use the Foleo outside of the breifcase, you can use the TREO outside the breifcase. And with installing a little software the Eee will be just as capable as the Foleo at syncing with the Treo
    This takes "wrong" to a new level as it makes no sense whatsoever. How can I use a Foleo or a Treo or a eeepc when it's inside my briefcase ?...my fingers can't touch the keys. My briefcase, ya know that thing made out of wood and / or leather, it has a handle and a couple of latches, room to store files and pens and all that other "business stuff". When I go on a business trip, I put all my business stuff in it, close it and I set the combination locks so no one sneaks stuff out while I'm sleeping on the plane.

    As for synching ....changing the rules are we ? What happened to the "out of the box limitation ? Nice to be able to change the rules when it fits your desires.

    2)Usability of the keyboard/inputs - you nor I have been able to try out either one of these devices, the review was simply a comparison of numbers, I mean, I ever listed Wiki articles as my source man. I cant write in the comparison something that nobody, including me, can compare effectively yet
    Didn't seem to bother you with regard to the unnamed CPU nor the unseen Palm-nux OS. But you can take this as "gospel"....the smaller the KB the harder it is to type on. It takes no more common sense to understand that than it does to recognize that a 10" screen is easier to see than a 7" one. The KB's are basically the same size as the screens.

    You will notice that most sites like TreoCentral actually wait for a device to be released and hold it in their hands, do some normal business tasks, run some tests and the like before forming an opinion on the device.

    I don't care what the spec sheets say, if I can't comfortably type on it, it don't get purchased. If the UI is clutterd or cumbersome, who cares what the specs are, they are immaterial. I don't much care if the latest WM6 device is equipped with this or that hardware, all I wanna know is how many clicks I gotta make to get the info I want and how long I gotta wait to see it. If I am satisfied with that, whether its 200 Mhz, 400 Mhz or 80 THz just doesn't matter.

    4)Once again, we can only speculate about the usablity of the GUI
    Hence making any review of the devices at this time spurious at best.

    5)I did go over responsiveness in the end, saying that both devices should respond rather quickly because they are both running linux natively
    I assume that your argument is that because both OS's are based upon some version of a linux kernel and will therefore perform the same on similar hardware. I guess we can also conclude therefore that two devices should respond rather quickly because they are both running lWindows.....and it doesn't matter at all whether that means Windows NT, Windows 95, Windows Vista, Windows ME, Windows for Workgroups and Windows Embedded ...all will will run just as responsively on the same hardware ?

    7)Once again - something we can only speculate about. However, if you want to get technical, the Asus Eee is supposed to be shipping with OpenOffice, an office suite that can do just about *everything* MS office can do, a far cry from the underpowered joke that the Foleo offers.
    Wrong again. It's not something we need "speculate about" because if you read your own wiki reference, it clearly says teh Asus comes with OO. And the Treo already has docs to go. I have both Open Office and Documents to Go. And no, Open Office doesn't come close to doing everything that MS Office can do nor is it intended to. It's authors plainly state such.

    It will however serve most people's needs and it adequately serves our office needs on desktops and laptops although we don't use it as a primary word processor, nor do we use MS Office in that capacity. OO does serve well for using *.doc documents we receive from others and as indicated previously, there are significant formatting issues when we edit them and send them back to clients. It's fine to edit text in OO and then have formatting preserved in MS Office, but if you try and fix the formatting in OO, it will not format the same when opened again in MS Office.

    Imagine a restaurant critic writing a restaurant review, not by visiting the establishment and actually eating the food but upon reading the menu.

    As Apple has shown most drastically in the last week, the UI crushes all other considerations in a mobile device. To even attempt to weigh the success of any device without considering the UI utmost and foremost is pure folly. I am not saying the Foleo is a good device, I am not saying the eeepc is a bad device. I am saying:

    1. There's no way to even begin to judge the potential value of these devices until they are released.

    2. The feature set provided makes it clear that the target audience for each device is different. Palm appears to be going for the business professional intending to sell less units at a larger margin by making a reliable / durable product. The price can only be explained by putting extra dollars into the rudimentary components. Asus appears to be going for the consumer market intending to sell many, many units at very small margins. The price would appear to be indicative of cost being the primary factor in component selection.
  7. 1PTUser's Avatar
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    #227  
    Background: I've been using the ultra-portable (but expensive) Fujitsu PSeries lifebooks w/10.1 inch screens for years. My current unit is used as my main computer in the office, on the road, and at the house. When docked, it's usually connected to a 19" or 20" LCD. I also have a Treo (and a BB 8830 for now.)

    Eee or Foleo, which would I choose? I have very little interest in the first model Eee 701. The foleo on the other hand seems more appealing to me (for a lower price Palm!) Why? Comfort.

    Comfort for the eyes: Although I've enjoyed my little laptop, these young and sometimes screen-weary eyes would not want to look at anything smaller than a 10" screen. The screen, or visual interface, is the interface that is most used by all of us.
    Comfortable to handle: My current little laptop runs so hot after a while, you can't even put it on your lap. It's small enough that I take it on errand runs and anywhere there may be dead time; but am uncomfortable laying it on my leather car seats. Powerful processors really produce heat. Now compact it in a small form factor with litte room for ventilation and the results are obvious.
    Easy on the mind: I get my tech thrills on the job. At home however, I just want to relax. Let me browse the web and read blogs/emails/e-books while laying in my hammock; or use it falling asleep and having the TV watch me. I want to do that using something simple. Something that doesn't require much maintenance or much thought. Something made for my purposes. Something I don't have to patch, update, re-install then re-boot or hack almost ever. Easy on the eyes; comfortable to handle and not much to think about. Conclusion: What I'm really looking for is a personal web/email + multi-media appliance. The Foleo appears to be "almost, but not quite" for too much. The Eee seems like too much while lacking in one of the most critical areas, the screen.
    I'll leave the statistical analysis for others. I'm emphasizing the Personal side of personal computing. We can all be like Goldilocks in the home of the three bears and find something that suits us "just right." Re: what is good for you, may be too much or not enough for somebody else.
    Last edited by 1PTUser; 07/13/2007 at 01:16 AM. Reason: Comment on one of the causes of laptop heat
  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1PTUser View Post
    Eee or Foleo, which would I choose? I have very little interest in the first model Eee 701. The foleo on the other hand seems more appealing to me (for a lower price Palm!) Why? Comfort.
    Agreed your "intangibles" are far more important than specs. AutoCAD and Spreadsheets for examples are my daily grind and productivity on both soars with the more data you can see on screen. Despite the bulk, anything that doesn't do 1920 x 1200 is "too small" for those uses. I therefore wouldn't look at whether a laptop had this CPU or that one if it couldn't do that resolution.

    Heat is another intangible that can't be evaluated until you touch one. More so than a laptop, these devices are intended to be used "on the go". I have to wonder at the comfort of using both w/o an airline tray, table top etc. available.

    And yes, of course,we have enough to worry about with "Patch Tuesday" on our laptops and desktops. I have done two OS updates on my 650 and both were a wee bit of a PITA leaving me with some "fiddling" to do afterwards both times.

    And of course there's a difference between having something and having something work well. Every smart phone out there works as a phone, but not all do so with equal call quality. Also look at the Sprint 650 (needs Volumecare) versus the Cingular (doesn't). Both have "phone" in their specs but each performs differently. Most of these smart phones offer BT, but not all BT headsets work the same with each phone.

    Also what about component quality ? How much did each company invest in the screen ? Is its LCD pixelated ? Will it survive a drop ? How much did they invest in the KB ? Are keys responsive or problematic ? How long before that first key gets "stuck" ?

    While the first thing that worries me about the Foleo is its price, that is will peeps pay $500 for the occasional use of a bigger screen and keyboard, the price of the Asus worries me more. Just what kind of quality can I expect out of a $199 device ? If, as is claimed, they are spending more than Palm for memory CPU's, g instead of b wireless etc, how much money is left exactly for shock proof design, keyboards and screen ?

    Here I can buy a 7" LCD to plug into a video camera....price $199
    http://www.bargain-camera.com/store/...t-p-16254.html

    Car headrest screens are typically in the $225 range.

    Here's $189 and $329
    http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-Widescree...bosnation0e-20
    https://www.xenarcdirect.com/product...cat=249&page=1

    Here's a replacement keyboard ($40):
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PGE33E/...bosnation0e-20



    So let's say they pay half the above, $100 on the screen and $20 on the KB,......that leaves $79 for everything else including packaging, software loading, treeware, warehousing over head and 90 days of customer support for a public, 95% of which has never used Linux ?????? I like inexpensive but cheap makes me nervous when we talking about something I gotta rely on. Rather than entice me, the price of the eeepc makes me wary.
  9. #229  
    The component cost of a 7" lcd screen is closer to $30. But your overall point is still valid.
  10. #230  
    Sheesh, I get your point Jack. Ok I can agree on waiting on the devices to see the OS's and such. My point on performance was that the PXA class CPU has not been clocked anything over 614 mhz, thats enough to do apps and stuff but any kind of games or video on that 10 inch screen will prove difficult without any video accelerator. As far as both devices supporting Linux, you are apperently an avid Palm user and you know that the PalmOS is a very stable, quick OS. So it would be safe for you to assume that the next version will also be very stable and quick because all the previouse versions have. Ive seen linux on PXA CPU's and Ive seen linux on x86's. Asus would have to mess up bad to make a linux based OS that is slow on that pentium. Now this doesnt mean that I am right, just because there is a track record doesnt prove the future, but it can help you provide a little insight into the future.
  11. #231  
    I look at the EEEPC as being basically an oversized PDA/Smartphone if you will. If you wouldn't do it on your PDA, then you wouldn't do it on the eeepc. Ergo, the mobile companion.

    So why bother? Well you get a full real OS, a real email client, a real web browser (as mobile browsers choke on some sites) and a slightly larger screen. You also get to do other things a little better like stream music, run full IM apps, and edit some documents and such. Again, all things you can already do on a PDA, but with the eeePC you won't have quite the crippling effects of the PDA.

    I look at it this way. My PDA does all of this stuff already and is my mobile buddy. But something like the EEEPC I could bring along half those times and do things more conveniently.

    And at $300, it's cheaper than most PDAs. I really don't even need to worry about it being stolen out of the car at that price like I would my laptop.

    I'm going to set my wife up with one of these eventually. During tax season things get so crazy she's basically working via blackberry all day and night no matter where she goes. The eeepc is small enough that she could keep it with her in a large purse/small bag and VPN in to work, do email, quick document edits, and forward things on pretty much wherever she is. Some taks that are just a little too much to pull off on a BB.
    The foleo could even be a better choice in this case, but It's dependency on a PDA phone scares me. At least the eeepc isn't a very expensive experiment to 'try' this.
    Last edited by taylorh; 07/13/2007 at 02:26 PM.
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    The component cost of a 7" lcd screen is closer to $30. But your overall point is still valid.
    Geez and the Palm parts crowd is charging $99 for a 2" one ?

    Best price I could find here was $100 ($85 "wholesale")

    http://www.screentekinc.com/
  13. #233  
    Here's the cost break down for the OLPC as an example:
    http://www.olpcnews.com/hardware/pro..._strategy.html

    Note that a manufacturer buying a million will get a better unit price than a retailer buying a 200.
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       #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim View Post
    Note that a manufacturer buying a million will get a better unit price than a retailer buying a 200.
    Which raises an interesting question. Palm have said that Foleo wont be a volume market product, at least in it's initial guise. But how many do they aim to sell, so we can know if they feel it's a success or not?

    I suppose I'd better have a go; is 100,000 units in the first 6 months about what they are targeting?
    PalmPilot Professional...Palm Vx...Treo 600...Treo 680...HTC Touch HD...iPhone 4S...
  15. Hargoth's Avatar
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    #235  
    I would prefer the Gigabyte u60 running Linux, with a phone card.

    http://www.elite-electronix.com/prod...oducts_id=1190
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    #236  
    As far as I know, good thing. Let me explain.

    I'm really fed up with the need to take my 5.5lb Toshiba L25 in my backpack just to drop a few lines and send some photos from the conference. I think Foleo precisely fits a journalist's needs, at least for the vast majority of them. Yes, you wealthy guys can go and buy Sony Vaio TX series for the price of five Foleos. I'm not gonna.

    What I'm trying to express is actually a good old KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Mac mini inside, Palm Foleo+Treo 680 (our only local CDMA operator can't provide 755p) for outside. They just do the job, guys.

    Don't think I'm a newbie who has just seen "a beautiful thing" and lacks facts. I've done a serious research job suming up the facts and rumors as soons as I'm intended to publish a large article in my magazine. I even contacted Palm Europe in attempt to get it to my hands in Moscow, Russia for large scale testing. It is hard - they don't seem to have interest in local market, we don't even officially have Treos here.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hargoth View Post
    I would prefer the Gigabyte u60 running Linux, with a phone card.

    http://www.elite-electronix.com/prod...oducts_id=1190
    At twice the price of the Foleo?
  18. TxDot's Avatar
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    #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by derloos View Post
    ...What I'm trying to express is actually a good old KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Mac mini inside, Palm Foleo+Treo 680 (our only local CDMA operator can't provide 755p) for outside. They just do the job, guys.
    ...
    Hopefully the 680 will be supported. At this point it's not clear/certain that it will be.
    GSM Treo 600 > Unlocked GSM Treo 650 on T-Mobile - Attempting to use a BB Curve

    Technology is neither good nor evil, good people will find good uses for it and evil people will find evil uses for it. Phil P.
  19. Q
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    #239  
    The 680 will be supported. The 650 is the only (recent, Bluetooth-equipped) Treo model that won't be.
  20. derloos's Avatar
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    #240  
    I've seen controversial info, like 650 and 680 are temporarly unsupported so Palm is planning to add their support sometime later. Rumors?
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