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  1. #241  
    This blows.. Most companies I know give their users Laptops to use with MS Office and Windows XP. This is smaller, but why would they ditch a full featured laptop for something smaller with limited functionality. I don't get it. This is like some of those Sharp Zaurus devices from a few years ago.

    If I have a big enough space for a flip up screen then I use a laptop. If I want something I can carry in my pocket I use my Treo.

    Why do you think all those PocketPC devices that looked like mini laptops stopped being made?
  2. #242  
    ... Palm can actually convince all those business warriors WHY this thing is better than the laptop they are lugging, why less is more. I miss that in the flash-presentation on Palm's site. You're going to compare it to a small notebook anyway, they should go head to head and explain why instant on, 5 hours working time, speed and stability are okay!

    I do feel that the 'companion' part to the Treo was a bit underwhelming. Also, I expected to find some PIM applications there. Maybe it's still in beta.

    I see a lot of potential here, but there's no bang as when the iPhone was presented.
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    Again, I think it would be very wrong to assume that this specifically "drained" resources from anything else.

    Marc
    In Marc we trust. Actually, Marc has made me back off my initial reaction a bit. Jeff Hawkins thinks this is the best thing he ever did because he is using it with a Linux Treo that is designed to take advantage of its' abilities, and the Treo has software that actually allows it to connect to any KB and monitor. That's what I'll keep telling myself. They didn't hire Marc to keep VersaMail around forever.
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
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    #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
    When you're done watching the webcast, check this out. I bet you can get one for well under $500!

    I think you have hit the nail on the head. There are those of us who liked the [no longer made] Jornada 720 and the [no longer made] Psion. If this thing works seamlessly and easily I believe there will be a market.
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    #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by jimn367 View Post
    I think you have hit the nail on the head. There are those of us who liked the [no longer made] Jornada 720 and the [no longer made] Psion. If this thing works seamlessly and easily I believe there will be a market.
    I think there's a reason these devices are no longer made...
    Luminary? You've got to be kidding!
  6. #246  
    Again, my personal thoughts... As Ed has said, there are a lot of pieces to the puzzle. One is smartphones, and the announced OS transition; another piece includes the online backup service (breaking ties to the desktop); one is the Foleo and whatever it evolves into (I would suspect that user feedback will be critical here); etc. To the extent that Palm considers itself in the "mobile computing" space, products like the Foleo are, IMO, worthwhile attempts at finding the "sweet spot" (let's face it, nobody has made anywhere near the "perfect" device).

    The early Treo's were horribly flawed in many ways, but the concept was terrific and it took a few iterations to get it "right". Maybe there's some of that here; that's for users to decide, of course.

    Whether it's "revolutionary" or not really isn't the point. The question is whether the Foleo product fills an untapped need, and only time will tell. It's obviously fair game to criticize the product and even the company, but I think it's important to realize that this is one product that's part of a wider strategy.

    And even in the worst case... what computing company hasn't had its share of problematic offerings (PCjr, Apple Lisa and Newton, etc.)?

    And I think that's all from me on this topic! Best to all,

    Marc
  7. #247  
    Ok, I lied...

    Here's what Jeff Hawkins said...

    "Ultimately, it will make smartphones more successful," he said in an interview. "The volume we anticipate selling of Foleo initially will be small compared to the volume of Treos. It's not going to be a driver in the short term. But it allows us to rethink how you design smartphones."

    That sounds like a realistic assessment to me.

    Marc
  8. #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    Again, I think it would be very wrong to assume that this specifically "drained" resources from anything else.

    Marc
    Then where are the new smartphones and features on them that people want?

    Money and Engineering time has been devoted to what seems to be a product that I doubt anybody wanted except perhaps for the creator of the Foleo.
    Day-Timer (1995) > Palm Pilot 5000 (1996) > Palm Vx (1999) > Treo 600 (2003) > Treo 650 (2006)

    Avoid MediocreSoft!!! - Give me PalmOS or give me death!
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkY View Post
    Considering the source of the comment above, this is the best thing I've heard all day and what is keeping me hopeful that better stuff will come from Palm before the end of the year.
    Funny thing, few, if any, people state any disagreement with my assertions about usefulness of Foleo or mismanagement of and by Palm.

    The best way for a company to make money is to CREATE AND SELL THINGS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BUY, not what they DON'T want to buy. Apple Newton anybody? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller? Anybody?
    Day-Timer (1995) > Palm Pilot 5000 (1996) > Palm Vx (1999) > Treo 600 (2003) > Treo 650 (2006)

    Avoid MediocreSoft!!! - Give me PalmOS or give me death!
  10. #250  
    This $500.00 device will initially be unable to stay connected to the Treo or WiFi networks.

    But if you buy it, Palm will vaguely promise to come out with a firmware patch for the problem, sometime around a year or so (once the warranty has expired). You will know the patch is coming, because they will EOL the device and release it's successor that WILL actually stay connected. Nice try, Palm.

    My Panasonic Executive Toughbook is a full featured XP Pro OS with full ports and compatibility with nearly any XP software you can toss at it. Battery life is over 7 hours on a single charge if I tweak it, and it weighs just over 3 pounds. They can be had for between $500-1000 used right now, and shipped with 3-year overnight warranties included. (I can tether it to my Treo, too).

    Exactly *what* does this "Fooleo" offer again, other than reduced size (and functionality) over a laptop?

    Seems to me that time and energy would have been better spent designing the Treo to work better with itself and existing technology rather than rehashing portable mail client devices.

    Instead of building on their strengths Palm is out reinventing a wheel and gold plating it.
    Treo 755s in good condition available on ebay for $50-$75. No need to pay for insurance or buy a Pre.
  11. #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    Ok, I lied...

    Here's what Jeff Hawkins said...

    "Ultimately, it will make smartphones more successful," he said in an interview. "The volume we anticipate selling of Foleo initially will be small compared to the volume of Treos. It's not going to be a driver in the short term. But it allows us to rethink how you design smartphones."

    That sounds like a realistic assessment to me.

    Marc
    So, Palm is only NOW starting to rethink the smartphone? What have they been doing since the first Treo? Daytrading?

    Do I detect a whiff of unearned arrogance emanating from the FOOL-eo announcement?
    Day-Timer (1995) > Palm Pilot 5000 (1996) > Palm Vx (1999) > Treo 600 (2003) > Treo 650 (2006)

    Avoid MediocreSoft!!! - Give me PalmOS or give me death!
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    Ok, I lied...

    Here's what Jeff Hawkins said...

    "Ultimately, it will make smartphones more successful," he said in an interview. "The volume we anticipate selling of Foleo initially will be small compared to the volume of Treos. It's not going to be a driver in the short term. But it allows us to rethink how you design smartphones."

    That sounds like a realistic assessment to me.

    Marc
    You know, I think you're actually spot on with your comments, Marc. It's good that they're pushing market categories like this... Hm... I really need to give this thing more thought, but I'm starting to feel like this is like the visorphone in a way. the visorphone was a silly gadget, but it led to the treo...
  13. #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by dnheller View Post
    So, Palm is only NOW starting to rethink the smartphone? What have they been doing since the first Treo? Daytrading?

    Do I detect a whiff of unearned arrogance emanating from the FOOL-eo announcement?
    Honestly, if Palm isn't rethinking the smarthphone then they are not being smart about anything. As it stands now, features and hardware are not what will make smarpthones any more accepted. Voice is the killer mobile app, and texting is a sure second (email being an offshoot of that). If the device and its system do no integrate into one's life (instead of the other way around which is how most smarpthones, Treo included, do now), then all you do is end up with an HTC-like action of putting out many small mobile devices looking for a form factor that will fit. Palm needs more than just hardware, and being a small niche company, they need to skillfully think on every move they make. Foleo while not perfect, far from it for many (not most), is an attempt to see what it is that people want, and then craft teh device to fit them better.

    Arrogance indeed, but more from us who buy these devices.

    I should add: in the past month I have had the N95, N800, Treo 680, Treo 755p, and E61i in a pretty consistent rotation. Each of them have a piece of what is needed in the mobile pie, but to get it all in one device is too much of a compromise than what it is worth. Idealy, my usage would be a Treo 680 with the formfactor of the N800, the multimedia abiltieis of the N95 and the battery life of the E61i/N800. Right now, that device doesn't exist, and if/when it does, the mobile culture - that which is beyond most of us analysts and tech infulencers - will be mature enough to take that step to something a bit more far reaching than a simplified laptop. That is what Palm is banking on, and as Ed Colligan has said previously, execution is key to making it happen. I am not sure if the Foleo is that execution in full, but its at least on base with what needs to happen in the mobile arena.
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by dnheller View Post
    Then where are the new smartphones and features on them that people want?

    Money and Engineering time has been devoted to what seems to be a product that I doubt anybody wanted except perhaps for the creator of the Foleo.
    Precisely. Millions of dollars into R&D and all we get is the foleo and minor incremental upgrades. Im staggered by it.
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by scuba_steve View Post
    I would have liked a touchpad, touchscreen, or ability to connect a mouse...I HATE the IBM nipple
    The Engadget screen shots have a USB port, so it probably will support a USB mouse.
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    #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by oscarc View Post
    The Engadget screen shots have a USB port, so it probably will support a USB mouse.

    It also looked like it had a firewire port as well, or am I mistaken?
  17. #257  
    I am the last person who'd try to sell anyone a concept/product they didn't like, but I think this needs to be looked at in the context of trying to create a range of complementary products and services. The fact that it's not for everyone has to be considered a given. The fact that (as Jeff said) the company isn't exactly expecting Foleo to generate significant revenues in the short-term would indicate that they are looking at the product rationally.

    Marc
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    #258  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chatter View Post
    I am the last person who'd try to sell anyone a concept/product they didn't like, but I think this needs to be looked at in the context of trying to create a range of complementary products and services. The fact that it's not for everyone has to be considered a given. The fact that (as Jeff said) the company isn't exactly expecting Foleo to generate significant revenues in the short-term would indicate that they are looking at the product rationally.

    Marc

    My fear is that they are "re-thinking" the smartphone in the context of this beast and not in the context of what customers like ME actually need.

    If this "range of complementary products" centers around designing a Treo without a keyboard....and teeny tiny so it fits in my pocket...but doesn't give me the usability I already have in an elegant one-handed design...then it's a totally misguided effort!

    As I said before...there were MANY manufacturers who came out with small clamsheel WinCE devices (always liked that it spelled "Wince") and that whole genre died a slow and agonizing death all the while Bill Gates & company tried to push it has the perfect companion to your PC. This is just a silly juxaposition on that theory whereas now you're making a companion for a SMALLER device. I don't see how this will some how magically succeed where Windows CE devices failed. I know it has Linux...and Opera...big whoop. This thing is doomed...
    Luminary? You've got to be kidding!
  19. PSM
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    #259  
    You know, I thought Palm might blow it, but I never expected a disappointment of this magnitude. It's a LAPTOP! A laptop that does not run a mature, full-featured OS. All Palm would have needed to do to have the same result is finally update the Treo's OS to something modern that had excellent sync software with Windows and Mac, so people can have the same level of integration between their Treos and laptops, except with actual laptops that do things.

    My Powerbook wakes from sleep in a couple seconds, and would probably be even faster if it wasn't so old. I have never purposely shut it down. It needs to be restarted every so often for software updates and the very rare crash, but I have never had a reason to actually power it off for more than a few seconds. In fact, I'd guess my laptop wakes from sleep faster than Agendus loads sometimes, and while I don't have a 700p, based on the reports I'd say it's a lot less laggy than that. Apple doesn't have a laptop quite as small as this (yet), but there are many on the PC side. It seems like some good software integration would solve all of this and give the consumer more power and options in the long run.

    All I can think of this being useful for is people who kind of think they want a laptop, but either can't afford one or only want to use it for "you know, e-mail and stuff."
  20. #260  
    If nothing else, consider this:

    No spyware or viruses.

    I think it has a niche. Whether that niche is profitable remains to be seen.

    I told a friend of mine this afternoon that I don't expect a whole lot more innovation in things like the Treo. Why? It's a mature market. Look at the iPhone; its only true innovation is the touch screen. All the rest of the features are off the shelf, packaged in a way The Steve thinks people will pay a premium for. And, who knows, he may be right!

    Full-blown computer systems are overkill for way too many people. Make something like this easy to use, and I think you'd be surprised who's using it.

    Tom

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