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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by _StephenBB81 View Post
    With all due respect his post explained perfectly the reason
    RIM Launched the PlayBook as "BlackBerry Amplified" The PlayBook was Launched with the intention of being a companion device, because the market didn't like that idea does not detract from that was the ORIGINAL purpose of the BlackBerry PlayBook
    RIM must think first of their existing user base, then look at expanding, looking at their existing user base, rather than Breaking BIS/BES they left off Native email and calendar, which did allow them to become the first consumer tablet approved by FIPS.

    I feel bad for users who Purchased the PlayBook on Promises, buy a product for what it does, not what the future could have in store for it.
    Question: Is it possible when the Playbook launched to have two RIM devices talking (sending/receiving mail, syncing contacts) to one BES account?
  2.    #82  
    StephenBBB,

    Thanks for your VERY comprehensive feedback. Excellent, and exactly what I was looking for.

    Your points re-affirm my decision to sell the BB Playbook, and keep using my TP 32GB instead.

    FOR ME, the lack of PIM/Email functionality is a deal-breaker. AND ironically, the fact that there is CM7 (and by next year, CM9) for access to all my Android apps that I already own in the Google Market and Amazon App Store, ways tips the balance for me towards the TP. (There's no way in hell I am re-buying all the Android apps I own, just to use them on a different device).

    Oh, and one more thing I just remembered that I really like about the TP (and the HP App catalog) is that I can buy once in the HP Catalog, and we can use the same app on both our GO's without paying a 2nd time for the app.
  3. #83  
    I can say only one thing - my experience with Playbook was great. I was impressed with screen and general UX. As Android user I found PB's UX much more enjoyable than Android's. If they manage to fix problems related to PIM, maybe RIM is not doomed in tablet market. I only know, I would buy $99 TP over $200 PB in heartbit, but I would also buy $200 PB instead $200 TP. TP simply has too much quality issues to be considered as purchase if you have some other alternative in same price range.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Question: Is it possible when the Playbook launched to have two RIM devices talking (sending/receiving mail, syncing contacts) to one BES account?
    No it was not possible

    part of the security of the BES experience was that one could not have emails spoofed to other devices, the interaction between the BES and the user account was tied to a single unalterable PIN.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by fsx100 View Post
    StephenBBB,

    Thanks for your VERY comprehensive feedback. Excellent, and exactly what I was looking for.

    Your points re-affirm my decision to sell the BB Playbook, and keep using my TP 32GB instead.

    FOR ME, the lack of PIM/Email functionality is a deal-breaker. AND ironically, the fact that there is CM7 (and by next year, CM9) for access to all my Android apps that I already own in the Google Market and Amazon App Store, ways tips the balance for me towards the TP. (There's no way in hell I am re-buying all the Android apps I own, just to use them on a different device).

    Oh, and one more thing I just remembered that I really like about the TP (and the HP App catalog) is that I can buy once in the HP Catalog, and we can use the same app on both our GO's without paying a 2nd time for the app.

    Please give the PlayBook 2 weeks before you go selling it, not worth Selling it right now anyway while everyone can buy for such great prices.
    Play the games, surf the internet, bring it around with you and connect whilst at StarBucks or McDonalds or the like,

    If for no other reason than to at least get a real feel for the QNX UI, and seeing what could be coming from the New BlackBerry`s in the future
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by _StephenBB81 View Post
    No it was not possible

    part of the security of the BES experience was that one could not have emails spoofed to other devices, the interaction between the BES and the user account was tied to a single unalterable PIN.
    Yeah I know. Kind of makes all this BS:

    With all due respect his post explained perfectly the reason
    RIM Launched the PlayBook as "BlackBerry Amplified" The PlayBook was Launched with the intention of being a companion device, because the market didn't like that idea does not detract from that was the ORIGINAL purpose of the BlackBerry PlayBook
    RIM must think first of their existing user base, then look at expanding, looking at their existing user base, rather than Breaking BIS/BES they left off Native email and calendar, which did allow them to become the first consumer tablet approved by FIPS.


    At the time of the Playbook launch, RIM was incapable of delivering email to both devices. It had nothing to do with "their intention", they had no other option, other than not release a device at all.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Yeah I know. Kind of makes all this BS:

    With all due respect his post explained perfectly the reason
    RIM Launched the PlayBook as "BlackBerry Amplified" The PlayBook was Launched with the intention of being a companion device, because the market didn't like that idea does not detract from that was the ORIGINAL purpose of the BlackBerry PlayBook
    RIM must think first of their existing user base, then look at expanding, looking at their existing user base, rather than Breaking BIS/BES they left off Native email and calendar, which did allow them to become the first consumer tablet approved by FIPS.


    At the time of the Playbook launch, RIM was incapable of delivering email to both devices. It had nothing to do with "their intention", they had no other option, other than not release a device at all.

    It doesn't make it BS, their Intention was a companion device BECAUSE that was all they could offer, you very much are correct, it was make a companion device or don't launch at all, they made a companion device, the market reacted, they will need to (and have) change the BES/BIS infrastructure for 2012 and moving forward.

    I do believe they had hoped to solve their security requirements sooner and be able to deliver sooner, and they should staple Jimbo's mouth shut when the press are near, but that is besides the point that the initial announcement of the PlayBook, and the Subsequent launch were for the BlackBerry Amplified experience, as said at DevCon 2010.

    The debate isn't on if it was a smart move or not, as sales clearly dictate it wasn't, but on the mentality of the launch
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by _StephenBB81 View Post
    With all due respect his post explained perfectly the reason
    RIM Launched the PlayBook as "BlackBerry Amplified" The PlayBook was Launched with the intention of being a companion device, because the market didn't like that idea does not detract from that was the ORIGINAL purpose of the BlackBerry PlayBook
    It was MARKETED like that because that was all they had to offer, at the time, with an unfinished product.

    The FACT that they chose to go that route is just one more sign of how clueless RIM has been. The problem with their choice and the limitations of the device were obvious even before the device was released... and it did even worse than already lowered expectations.

    I feel bad for users who Purchased the PlayBook on Promises, buy a product for what it does, not what the future could have in store for it.
    Nice in theory but an empty platitude in reality.
  9.    #89  
    Ok. Here's a question:

    Is the updated BB PB OS 2.0 going to support Email/PIM sync *ONLY* thru the BES network? And have a monthly charge for the privilege?

    Or will I be able to independently Sync email with MS Exchange, POP3, IMAP and Gmail, without paying BB a Monthly Fee?
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by fsx100 View Post
    Ok. Here's a question:

    Is the updated BB PB OS 2.0 going to support Email/PIM sync *ONLY* thru the BES network? And have a monthly charge for the privilege?

    Or will I be able to independently Sync email with MS Exchange, POP3, IMAP and Gmail, without paying BB a Monthly Fee?
    Nothing has been confirmed about a monthly fee, and the only time I've seen PlayBooks with PIM enabled has been connected to a BES so unfortunately this can't be answered.

    the assumption is they will open email up via ActiveSync for the consumers who are not on BES, and thus you wont get BBM, BBM will only be enabled via BES, or via BlackBerry Bridge.

    This is largely assumed to be the reason BBM wont be included in Feb's OS release
    Last edited by _StephenBB81; 11/25/2011 at 06:01 AM.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    It was MARKETED like that because that was all they had to offer, at the time, with an unfinished product.

    The FACT that they chose to go that route is just one more sign of how clueless RIM has been. The problem with their choice and the limitations of the device were obvious even before the device was released... and it did even worse than already lowered expectations.

    You have some major negativity toward the product, I agree it was a BAD idea for a consumer device to not have Native email.

    BUT it wasn't marketed like that it was ANNOUNCED like that, the intention was to be a companion product from the announcement at DevCon in 2010, we all can agree it wasn't a good idea, RIM did make a lot of mistakes, honestly the PlayBook marketing team was just stupid with all of its marketing to consumers, and the business publications had little to know marketing,
    as I said in my Pro's and con's list the Lack of email was a PRO for me, because of email security, I am not aware of any tablets that have user accounts to lock PIM access, and tablets certainly get put in the hands of the kids in the house, or friends use them, I have no issue carrying 2 phones, but 2 tablets and 2 phones would get a bit much for my pockets.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by _StephenBB81 View Post
    You have some major negativity toward the product
    No, not at all... Actually I find the hardware itself, the UI, and the "finished" bits that are there all pretty good. If it had the basic PIM apps, I'd own one by now. However, I *do* have some major issues with the way it was released half-baked, the way it's been marketed, and the cluelessness with which RIM has handled it overall... and I don't yet see a single sign that there is an improvement on this front.

    If RIM continues like this, I'm not even sure a BBX phone is going to help them out... time is slipping away on any window they may have.


    BUT it wasn't marketed like that it was ANNOUNCED like that, the intention was to be a companion product from the announcement at DevCon in 2010
    Marketing plans and announcements are all hatched before release and reveal. RIM knew they weren't going to have a complete product. It seems obvious to me that everything was tailored around that.

    Which might have been fine - except they stuck it in front regular everyday consumers, most of which who do not have a BB phone - and pretended like it was a compelling, competitive product against the iPad and the slew of other Android tablets competing in the "non-iPad" tablet market.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post

    Marketing plans and announcements are all hatched before release and reveal. RIM knew they weren't going to have a complete product. It seems obvious to me that everything was tailored around that.

    Which might have been fine - except they stuck it in front regular everyday consumers, most of which who do not have a BB phone - and pretended like it was a compelling, competitive product against the iPad and the slew of other Android tablets competing in the "non-iPad" tablet market.
    Their Reveal vs Release date were so far apart I can't believe they had a clue as to what it would be line when it finally launched,

    as it stands now often I don't think the men at the top have a clue as to what is happening with their products when they spout their mouths off.
    RIM had a very complete Product for the Enterprise market, and government markets based on 2010 expectations, which is why they were able to get FIPS approval for the playbook in record time.
    They were very dumb in thinking they could market the playbook to consumers as a companion device, that I can agree with you on.
    If I was given an iPad by work, (which was hinted at till I readily said I would pass if given the option) It would suffer the same fate as my work laptop and stay in my hotel rooms, or at my house while I am working, but the 7" form factor made the PlayBook a very competitive product for those who owned BlackBerry's that very much is the target group, and unfortunately the reviewers did not own BlackBerry's
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by _StephenBB81 View Post
    Their Reveal vs Release date were so far apart I can't believe they had a clue as to what it would be line when it finally launched,
    That begs consideration for an even bigger issue, however. They *should* have had some idea of their roadmap. In the case of the email app, it was said it would arrive within 60 days of release, presumably because it had fallen behind - now it's arriving a year later.

    That's a lot of cluelessness. One could argue they're holding it back intentionally for marketing reasons or to make the OS2 release look more impressive but then that doesn't say much for what they must think of current customers.

    as it stands now often I don't think the men at the top have a clue as to what is happening with their products when they spout their mouths off.
    Agreed.
  15. #95  
    More RIM desperation:
    RIM gives free BlackBerry PlayBooks to enterprise buyers

    Some choice tibits:
    "Despite touting early corporate deals located mostly in its home country of Canada, RIM has had trouble getting significant interest from large-scale buyers that have more often sided with Apple. About 92 percent of the Fortune 500 is testing or actively using iPads.

    The adoption problem has commonly been attributed to RIM's decision to rush the PlayBook to market without native e-mail, calendars, or contacts. On-device support through BlackBerry Bridge so far hasn't been persuasive, as it requires that every user have a BlackBerry at a time when enterprises are increasingly open to using iPhones and Android phones.
    "

    Apparently based on some earlier comments RIM was positioning the Playbook as a companion device to the Blackberry.

    Unfortunately, the world didn't see it that way. Maybe Corps feel their Blackberries don't need a date?
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    More RIM desperation:
    RIM gives free BlackBerry PlayBooks to enterprise buyers

    Some choice tibits:
    "Despite touting early corporate deals located mostly in its home country of Canada, RIM has had trouble getting significant interest from large-scale buyers that have more often sided with Apple. About 92 percent of the Fortune 500 is testing or actively using iPads.

    The adoption problem has commonly been attributed to RIM's decision to rush the PlayBook to market without native e-mail, calendars, or contacts. On-device support through BlackBerry Bridge so far hasn't been persuasive, as it requires that every user have a BlackBerry at a time when enterprises are increasingly open to using iPhones and Android phones.
    "

    Apparently based on some earlier comments RIM was positioning the Playbook as a companion device to the Blackberry.

    Unfortunately, the world didn't see it that way. Maybe Corps feel their Blackberries don't need a date?
    Really RIM was STUPID to not offer this promotion when the PlayBook Launched, someone paying 3000+ for a BES installation should have been given a Free PlayBook to trial, would have done much better seeing as someone in April buying a BES would have a predominately BlackBerry infrastructure.

    I don`t agree with RIM`s idea of launching purely as a companion device, but it doesn`t change what it was.
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    #97  
    Getting back to the original post, Rim did make many mistakes launching the Playbook, but they pale compared to the bumbling HP did on the Touchpad. For one, the Playbook is a stellar piece of hardware, the Touchpad, well let me say it was the biggest hunk of cheap plastic garbage I ever held, ( this coming from a Webos fan boy ) reminded me of the Pre and Pre Plus quality. Cracks after about 2 weeks, poor quality all around. Absolutely killed the great Os that is Webos. In my own opinion, I will take the shortcomings of the Playbook, because they can be fixed in a software update. But junk is junk, can't be fixed with software. Hence the fire sale. Couldn't sell them so they gave them away and killed Webos in the process.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Moegumby View Post
    In my own opinion, I will take the shortcomings of the Playbook, because they can be fixed in a software update.
    Certainly, they *can* be... but the question is, *will* they be? OS2 looks like a step in the right direction but it's probably arriving way too late to save this particular device.
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    #99  
    There is a distinct difference here though, Webos wasn't the life blood of HP. QNX or BBX is Rim's future, it's either make or break at this point. I see them pouring everything they have into the Playbook and new Rim phones. Let's face it, it's either live or die for them now. This is their future. Seeing this is why I say the Playbook is a better choice for continued support. If you want it all there's only 1 option, IPad.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Moegumby View Post
    There is a distinct difference here though, Webos wasn't the life blood of HP. QNX or BBX is Rim's future, it's either make or break at this point. I see them pouring everything they have into the Playbook and new Rim phones. Let's face it, it's either live or die for them now. This is their future. Seeing this is why I say the Playbook is a better choice for continued support. If you want it all there's only 1 option, IPad.
    I agree that BBX is RIM's future - on phones... but they obviously are *NOT* pouring everything into the Playbook. For all intents and purposes it has been entirely neglected, from the consumers POV, since release. Updates that were due within weeks (PIM apps, etc...) are now coming a year after the product arrived in consumer's hands.

    I'd guess, internally, they are much more concerned about BBX phones than they are on a money losing 'failure' like the PB.

    If their general mishandling of virtually everything about the PB is an example of RIM "pouring everything they have into the Playbook" then god help their shareholders.

    The Playbook is damaged goods in reputation and now the fire sales have guaranteed the product line won't be profitable without a sudden reversal of fortune. It's not like they can raise the price again and expect sales. The release of OS2 won't help that, either.. it only gets the PB where it should have been last Spring.

    Despite my lack of faith in RIM and my criticism of their previous and current actions, I'd really like to see them turn it around. I'd love to be able to buy a Playbook (or a future version of it) but it's useless to me without even a basic email app right now.
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