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  1. #21  
    LOL. Hotmail. What was the downside to the end user with taking four years? Was Hotmail not functioning for those four years?

    Microsoft could languish in their conversion timetable. RIM can't.

    The 32gb Playbook could be had for a song and a dance at buck seventy four, a former seven hundred dollar device.

    That being said, I'm really liking my 9900. First device from RIM I would actually consider buying, that is if it was two years ago. At least I don't have to face the drudgery of pulling out my BB like I did with my old one.
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    There are plenty of people interested in a tablet that *DON'T* have a Blackberry phone. People want to be able to access their email on their tablets without having to use a web browser. Your excuse doesn't explain away the lack of apps for mail, calendar, etc, for these potential buyers as every other comparable tablet has them.

    RIM have made themselves look the fool by not only shipping an unfinished device but by failing to fill in major holes. There's a reason they've struggled to stuff the channel with 700k units and moved virtually none of them on to consumers until fire sales started springing up.

    Some of the original buyers of the PB purchased them with the expectation that RIM would be providing updates to cover its shortcoming mere weeks after purchase. Now it will be a YEAR by the time they get them, assuming that date holds.
    EVERY non-ipad tablet makers look like fools. Lenovo said it right out that Samsung sold only 20000 tablets even though millions were shipped. You really think that the Asus Transformer is selling --- they aren't. All the numbers came from Taiwanese press and not from SEC filings (since Asus isn't listed in the US). The HP TouchPad has a email cliet, so what? The sales numbers were dismal.

    So having a "native" email client or not --- doesn't really affect actual sales numbers. Motorola shipped 800K Xooms and RIM shipped 700K Playbooks (and Motorola has been shipping it earlier than RIM). So what if the Xoom has a native email client, didn't change the sales numbers at all.
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    LOL. Hotmail. What was the downside to the end user with taking four years? Was Hotmail not functioning for those four years?
    That's where a number of tech bloggers got all these issues mixed up and gave a false sense of RIM's progress.

    RIM, like Microsoft, is going to eat their own dog food. It cost them less because they don't have to pay themselves an OS licensing fee. So RIM will eventually migrate to QNX servers in their email infrastructure --- because they already bought the company and they are getting the OS for free. But tech bloggers were writing articles about QNX handsets requiring special QNX email servers --- and that's simply not true.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    That's where a number of tech bloggers got all these issues mixed up and gave a false sense of RIM's progress.

    RIM, like Microsoft, is going to eat their own dog food. It cost them less because they don't have to pay themselves an OS licensing fee. So RIM will eventually migrate to QNX servers in their email infrastructure --- because they already bought the company and they are getting the OS for free. But tech bloggers were writing articles about QNX handsets requiring special QNX email servers --- and that's simply not true.
    How is what you quoted from me answered in your comment above?

    This is what you quoted:
    Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    LOL. Hotmail. What was the downside to the end user with taking four years? Was Hotmail not functioning for those four years?


    A couple of questions:

    What do you mean by eat their own dog food?

    Secondly, What mean when you say "it cost them less" in relation to whatever point you are making about Microsoft.

    Third, are you saying that future QNX handsets can talk to the current Blackberry servers?

    And if the answer is yes, what is technical difficulty in allowing the Playbook to talk to the servers if you don't own a Blackberry? I understand about the two devices talking to one mail account issue. But if all you own is Playbook, that should not be a factor.
    Last edited by sinsin07; 11/23/2011 at 05:20 PM.
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    EVERY non-ipad tablet makers look like fools. Lenovo said it right out that Samsung sold only 20000 tablets even though millions were shipped. You really think that the Asus Transformer is selling --- they aren't. All the numbers came from Taiwanese press and not from SEC filings (since Asus isn't listed in the US). The HP TouchPad has a email cliet, so what? The sales numbers were dismal.

    So having a "native" email client or not --- doesn't really affect actual sales numbers. Motorola shipped 800K Xooms and RIM shipped 700K Playbooks (and Motorola has been shipping it earlier than RIM). So what if the Xoom has a native email client, didn't change the sales numbers at all.
    Question, how would Lenovo know what Samsung sold. Is there some kind of sharing of information between the two?
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    But if all you own is Playbook, that should not be a factor.
    It was a decision that RIM made --- not to ship a non-enterprise email client to the casual tablet users.

    And it won't have mattered to the sales numbers. The TouchPad shipped with a email client. The Xoom shipped with a email client.
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    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    Question, how would Lenovo know what Samsung sold. Is there some kind of sharing of information between the two?
    Nobody knows what these sales numbers look like.

    The only numbers that are trustworthy are from companies that are listed in the US and subject to SEC filing rules.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    So having a "native" email client or not --- doesn't really affect actual sales numbers. Motorola shipped 800K Xooms and RIM shipped 700K Playbooks (and Motorola has been shipping it earlier than RIM). So what if the Xoom has a native email client, didn't change the sales numbers at all.
    RIM looks like a fool because they shipped an blatantly unfinished product and then are taking a YEAR to even provide basic functionality. Sales or not, at least the other tablet makers (HP included) are providing basic functionality.

    Also, you're aren't saying anything by quoting "shipped" numbers. Far more of those PB's sat gathering dust on the shelves than did Samsung's, as noted by the need for a fire sale (and I really don't think I'd trust Lenevo to provide sales numbers for Samsung product, do you?).

    RIM has no real direction, and is in severe danger of not even being here this time next year.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    It was a decision that RIM made --- not to ship a non-enterprise email client to the casual tablet users.

    And it won't have mattered to the sales numbers. The TouchPad shipped with a email client. The Xoom shipped with a email client.
    So to confirm, there is no technical reason?

    Secondly, I made no comment to you in regard to the Touchpad. Both have dismal numbers. However I will make a comment. RIM has way more users than webos will ever dream of having. The fact that the Touchpad had PIM capabilities and failed does not automatically translate over to RIM. RIM already had a large user base.

    Webos had more going wrong with it from the start than RIM. The OS/Hardware was failed on Palm prior to HP acquiring it. The released hardware quality was suspect, and the OS was not optimized.

    RIM had of stigma of being behind the times, but the Playbook was new. The Touchpad was a reboot of webos.

    But we will never know how well the adding of PIM functionality to the Playbook would have fared since they released a tablet with no PIM and still continue to have no native PIM.

    What about the other questions? If you have time, I'm trying to understand your comments because they seem disjointed.
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    RIM looks like a fool because they shipped an blatantly unfinished product and then are taking a YEAR to even provide basic functionality. Sales or not, at least the other tablet makers (HP included) are providing basic functionality.

    Also, you're aren't saying anything by quoting "shipped" numbers. Far more of those PB's sat gathering dust on the shelves than did Samsung's, as noted by the need for a fire sale (and I really don't think I'd trust Lenevo to provide sales numbers for Samsung product, do you?).

    RIM has no real direction, and is in severe danger of not even being here this time next year.
    Actually RIM looks like a genius if they manage to sell the same number of tablets as the other tablet manufacturers --- yet RIM only ships a half-finished product.

    How would you know how many Samsung actually sold? They aren't listed in the US, and they don't subject to public disclosure rules. We are talking about a TouchPad fire sale managed to beat Samsung tablet sales numbers --- so how well is Samsung selling their tablets.

    Nobody knows exactly how many Playbooks are sold --- because nobody knows where to count the Playbook in Google Analytics. The Playbook sales numbers are under-counted.

    http://crackberry.com/message-rim-fi...-helping-compe
    Last edited by samab; 11/23/2011 at 05:43 PM.
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    But we will never know how well the adding of PIM functionality to the Playbook would have fared since they released a tablet with no PIM and still continue to have no native PIM.
    There are plenty of Android tablet models that are not selling either. Don't need to talk about the TouchPad when the Xoom is a sales dud (and it has a native email client).
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Actually RIM looks like a genius if they manage to sell the same number of tablets as the other tablet manufacturers --- yet RIM only ships a half-finished product.
    RIM only looks like a genius in some weird, alternate universe.

    Of course, RIM has *not* sold the same number of tablets, they only stuffed the channel.... (and shipments dropped horribly from one quarter to the next, leading them to cease production - temporary or otherwise). As of now, it has all the earmarks of a dead product. Currently, they are dropping prices outrageously, yet again, just to be able to say they sold a few during the next earnings call.
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    RIM only looks like a genius in some weird, alternate universe.

    Of course, RIM has *not* sold the same number of tablets, they only stuffed the channel.... (and shipments dropped horribly from one quarter to the next, leading them to cease production - temporary or otherwise). As of now, it has all the earmarks of a dead product. Currently, they are dropping prices outrageously, yet again, just to be able to say they sold a few during the next earnings call.
    They are in the business to make money. What universe do you belong when that isn't the case?

    Nobody knows how many Playbooks are sold --- and because everybody just used Google Analytics to estimate tablet market share --- Playbooks are under-counted.

    Having a 7 inch display also makes it much cheaper to produce. So they aren't really dropping prices outrageously.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    There are plenty of Android tablet models that are not selling either. Don't need to talk about the TouchPad when the Xoom is a sales dud (and it has a native email client).
    We have an iPad market and a non-iPad. The PB is a complete failure in both.
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    We have an iPad market and a non-iPad. The PB is a complete failure in both.
    The non-ipad market is a complete failure. It really doesn't matter whether you are being a "success" or a "failure" in a failed non-ipad market.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    They are in the business to make money. What universe do you belong when that isn't the case?
    They sure aren't making money on the PB. LOL

    Nobody knows how many Playbooks are sold.
    Few enough that they have to have fire sales to move them in any quantity.

    Having a 7 inch display also makes it much cheaper to produce. So they aren't really dropping prices outrageously.
    BS. We already know that Amazon is selling the Fire at a loss, you can't tell me the PB is cheaper to make.
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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The non-ipad market is a complete failure. It really doesn't matter whether you are being a "success" or a "failure" in a failed non-ipad market.
    Glad you agree the PB sales are dismal.
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    Glad you agree the PB sales are dismal.
    But we don't know how dismal it is.

    All we have is tech bloggers getting numbers from a few "market research" companies, who in turn got their estimates from numbers that they got from their Google Analytics tools --- which we know now has been severely under-counting the Playbook.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    But we don't know how dismal it is.

    All we have is tech bloggers getting numbers from a few "market research" companies, who in turn got their estimates from numbers that they got from their Google Analytics tools --- which we know now has been severely under-counting the Playbook.
    No. We have quite a bit more evidence than that... including;

    *We know shipments in the second quarter of availability were sharply down from the first. You don't stop shipments in the second quarter for a new product if it were selling anywhere near "decent" in the first place.

    *We have reports that production has been halted (which you wouldn't do if a product was selling)

    *We have numerous fire sales across retail (again, not something you would do if it were selling)

    ..and above and beyond all of that, no matter how many of the 700k have actually been sold by now, thanks to the fire sales, there is still no getting away from the fact that the PB is an unfinished product and RIM has both lied and dropped the ball on bringing it up to scratch. Customers should NOT have to wait a whole YEAR for features promised within weeks. Even recent buyers are going to have to wait nearly half a year for this functionality.
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    #40  
    Rumors mainly from unreliable Taiwanese press about production. Same sort of rumors from the same sources about Asus is ramming up production --- yet we haven't seen any sort of real sales numbers.

    It took Motorola 8 months to get the LTE hardware upgrade out --- and you have to send your tablet to Motorola.
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