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  • 1 Post By jrstinkfish
  1.    #1  
    Now thats how you expand the market. Unlike some other dumb companies.

    The price is THE factor, refusing to admit is just being dumb.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Now thats how you expand the market. Unlike some other dumb companies.

    The price is THE factor, refusing to admit is just being dumb.
    Price is definately the factor. However, Amazon can lose money while selling their tablet because they have tons of contents to sell, music, apps, ebooks and their amazon goods. HP got nothing. Well, HP got apps but webOS doesn't have much app to sell and the margin of selling app isn't that much. If HP has to lose money to sell their tablet, they don't have anything else to get the money back. I understand about expanding webOS but what else they are going to do after losing so much money? Increase next version of tablet so they can make some money? And people will buy it with higher price just because they are familiar with webOS? I really don't see how HP can make money with webOS, unless they go out and spend billions of dollar to building up the ecosystem, but even that is kind of too late.
  3. #3  
    Smart move from Amazon. But as passlogix said, Amazon still can have profit from selling contents. I wonder how another tablet manufacturers respond to Amazon marketing strategy. This is really somewhat like in console game market. If Amazon going more and more aggressive by selling better and better specs tablet, how will tablet market be? I think it will be less attractive. But for now Amazon services only limited to certain countries. Will it be available around the world?
  4. #4  
    I'm actually surprised how little of a loss they're taking on each one, to be honest. What I read said about $3 per each one. I'd have expected more around $30-40 with the specs they have and their price point. I guess using pre-existing hardware (the Playbook) helps though.
  5. #5  
    In hind sight, hp should have sold the tp at a loss. After a month of crappy sales, that's what they wound up doing any way. Had they done so day 1 the installed base would probably have been enough to court developers and make the webOS investment worth while.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Now thats how you expand the market. Unlike some other dumb companies.

    The price is THE factor, refusing to admit is just being dumb.
    The price is A Factor. It's not the Only Factor.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Price is definately the factor. However, Amazon can lose money while selling their tablet because they have tons of contents to sell, music, apps, ebooks and their amazon goods. HP got nothing. Well, HP got apps but webOS doesn't have much app to sell and the margin of selling app isn't that much. If HP has to lose money to sell their tablet, they don't have anything else to get the money back. I understand about expanding webOS but what else they are going to do after losing so much money? Increase next version of tablet so they can make some money? And people will buy it with higher price just because they are familiar with webOS? I really don't see how HP can make money with webOS, unless they go out and spend billions of dollar to building up the ecosystem, but even that is kind of too late.
    Exactly! Amazon has an excellent stash of content for people to draw from. Amazon Prime is something I'm considering...

    Lose money on the razor (the hardware), make money on the blades (content). That business model is all around us.

    ~~~
  8. #8  
    I think the argument with originally selling the Touchpad at a loss was to build for future generations of the hardware. As in, you sell it at a loss and get a ton of users on there, then that audience of users brings developers to the platform. Considering one of webOS' problems has always been the app situation, I think it'd have helped.

    At this point though, I'm not sure how anything is going to compete with the Kindle Fire on the low end (price-wise) and the iPad on the high end. The Nook Color sold great because of its price, but with the Fire being lower in price than the Nook Tablet and the Fire having the Amazon ecosystem, I think B&N is screwed.
  9. #9  
    If HP hadn't already screwed this up, I think they could have found a sweet spot at $300-$400 between the overpriced iPad2 and limited-function Kindle and Nook tablets. To believe they were going to go head-to-head with the iPad2 right out of the gate was utter foolishness. Had they done a good job of establishing a webOS ecosystem with reasonable depth in the app catalog, in about a year they could have offered a premium touchpad model at apple's price-point, as long as they matched or beat apple on every spec point.

    Now, given what they actually DID do, I don't know if they could pull it off. It'd be interesting to see them try though. I still think the TouchPad Go could be a viable product even now, as long as the price is in the right range - say $349. Whether HP can stand to sell them for that price while they work on 2nd gen products is another question.

    Then again, I've read plenty of observations that there really is no significant Tablet market... there's just an iPad market. It may well be true at this point. It's possible that no general-purpose tablet can have any success against the iPad, and that the only other tablet market is indeed the low-cost content consumption tablets like Kindle and Nook where HP has no chance either.
  10. #10  
    The iPad and Tablet war reminds me very much of this years Formula 1

    Red Bull are Apple, and everyone one is wanting to beat Red Bull (Apple) but to be in a position to do that you need to beat everyone else first and be 2nd

    Once you are 2nd you can then concentrate on being 1st

    The other problem I see (as I was having this conversation with my brother yesterday who is a staunch Appleist )
    Is that if someone wants a tablet they will automatically look towards an iPad. Why? because they are a known quantity word of mouth etc you know exactly what you are getting

    all other Tablets there is such a myriad of sizes hardware specs android versions manufacturers so who would you choose, and thats not including Rim, HP, and any MS OS offerings nor any of the fake copies we see coming up for 50 here and there

    I noticed one for sale yesterday in Argos (UK retailer) a Lexibook my first tablet. 200 and its only 600mhz 256Mb ram and it boasts 3700 apps in its own app store. Its a dreadful hardware spec with a dreadful app count but non techie people will buy it and be so dissapointed they will sell it and wish they had bought an iPad

    The Corporate Market is the area that needs to be attacked and established as no one has a corporate offering that can beat the iPad so it leaves companies little choice

    Playbook doesnt even have email and wont in the 2012 update so it may as well do a HP and close its doors
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    In hind sight, hp should have sold the tp at a loss. After a month of crappy sales, that's what they wound up doing any way. Had they done so day 1 the installed base would probably have been enough to court developers and make the webOS investment worth while.
    even so, who the hell waits ONE poxy little month (1 day for the pre3) before anhialating everything, esp when the devs havent had time to make anything or even buy their own touchpad/pre3.

    it certainly wasnt going to sell in bulk from the strength of the stock apps included, and there wasnt even the demo of armageddon squadron II included they always showcased, and we STILL dont have armageddon squadron II even now.
    Last edited by geekpeter; 11/20/2011 at 07:59 AM.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    even so, who the hell waits ONE poxy little month (1 day for the pre3) before anhialating everything, esp when the devs havent had time to make anything or even buy their own touchpad/pre3.

    it certainly wasnt going to sell in bulk from the strength of the stock apps included, and there wasnt even the demo of armageddon squadron II included they always showcased, and we STILL dont have armageddon squadron II even now.
    I hear ya! Its hard to consider the idea that HP had a plan that they thought would work. Amazon however, is on to something.
  13. #13  
    just a shame they have a solid android background which i doubt will change anytime soon(tm).
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Price is definately the factor. However, Amazon can lose money while selling their tablet because they have tons of contents to sell, music, apps, ebooks and their amazon goods. HP got nothing. Well, HP got apps but webOS doesn't have much app to sell and the margin of selling app isn't that much. If HP has to lose money to sell their tablet, they don't have anything else to get the money back. I understand about expanding webOS but what else they are going to do after losing so much money? Increase next version of tablet so they can make some money? And people will buy it with higher price just because they are familiar with webOS? I really don't see how HP can make money with webOS, unless they go out and spend billions of dollar to building up the ecosystem, but even that is kind of too late.
    Ya, because HP doesn't sell computers or servers or enterprise software or printers. They have no source of money other than webOS. Makes you wonder what they were doing before last year
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by blue duck butter View Post
    Ya, because HP doesn't sell computers or servers or enterprise software or printers. They have no source of money other than webOS. Makes you wonder what they were doing before last year
    they were probably sending all their free $$ into shareholders/dumb ceo/board of directors, you'd think HP would have learned from commodore's similar dumb mistakes.
  16. #16  
    Just throwing this out there, but the $203 number that everyone is buzzing about is just an estimate based on a teardown. It doesn't really encompass any price negotiations that Amazon has actually conducted.

    As such, the cost may be higher or lower.

    -Suntan
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by passlogix View Post
    Price is definately the factor. However, Amazon can lose money while selling their tablet because they have tons of contents to sell, music, apps, ebooks and their amazon goods. HP got nothing. Well, HP got apps but webOS doesn't have much app to sell and the margin of selling app isn't that much. If HP has to lose money to sell their tablet, they don't have anything else to get the money back. I understand about expanding webOS but what else they are going to do after losing so much money? Increase next version of tablet so they can make some money? And people will buy it with higher price just because they are familiar with webOS? I really don't see how HP can make money with webOS, unless they go out and spend billions of dollar to building up the ecosystem, but even that is kind of too late.
    I would have to say that the kindle tablet fire is doing well according to Google. The kindle tablet fire is one of the hottest online electronic products being sold right now. For the price companies are going to have a hard time competing with it I think. That WEBOS ecosystem that Amazon has is one of the main sellers. Just my opinion...
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by blue duck butter View Post
    Ya, because HP doesn't sell computers or servers or enterprise software or printers. They have no source of money other than webOS. Makes you wonder what they were doing before last year
    I think you misunderstood what he was saying -- not that HP depended on the Touchpad for all of their profits, but that to sell an item at a loss, it needs to be attached to some sort of ongoing revenue stream. The Touchpad does not have that, therefore selling it at a loss makes no sense. The Fire has a direct line to Amazon's media services, so selling the Fire for a small loss is made up for in people buying more books, music, movies, TV shows, etc., due to the Amazon making it dead easy with their tablet.

    HP has that sort of setup with its printers by selling ink. Not so much with the Touchpad.
    slbailey1 likes this.
  19. #19  
    amazon is able to do it because they offer other services to make money back that they lose. The other OEM's that do not have all these services do not have that luxury which is why amazon can do it and other's cannot.

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