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How webOS has turned me into a "GNOME" user
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Old 11/12/2011, 08:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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I recently installed Cyanogenmod 7.1 on my TouchPad with all of its Android goodness. I originally asked for an Android ROM (at XDA Developers Forum) when HP first announced killing the TouchPad. With webOS still in limbo and with all of the good things being said about the CM ROM, I decided to give it a try. It took me two times to install it (did not have the recommended 2.5GB space at first), but once I got it installed it booted up fine. I played with it for about 20 minutes on the first day, then booted back into webOS.

This morning I decided to give it another try. I spent 3 hours in it tweaking and massaging it to make it look more palatable to me. I've used Android almost since the beginning and still have a lot of apps purchased under my account. I installed the paid version of ADW Launcher (EX) and Beautiful Widgets from the market and pimped out the UI. I watched part of a NetFlix movie (Kevin Hart, little man is funny!) and played a few games. Overall CM was nice. However, afterwards I booted back into webOS.

Why? What went wrong? Well, really nothing. Android was adequate and worked well. Ok, I can't say nothing. I found myself wanting something more simple and elegant. I didn't want to spend more time setting up the UI to look more pleasant. I didn't want to waste my time organizing widgets on 5 virtual screens or even deciding if 5 screens is too much or too little. I didn't want to mess with drawer configurations, icon sizes, or trying to make the fonts look better. I also did not want to dig through various settings just to get the browsers to default to desktop view. The default browser for webOS is slow, but it is simple and does what I want it to the first time.

I realized after all this that I have become something weird. I have become the like the hybrid of the Linux community. I have become a GNOME (2.x) user.

For those of you that don't know, Linux is a versatile operating system that is used on a ton of devices. Both Android and webOS use Linux as their core operating system. Linux competes with Windows on the desktop. I've been using Linux for over 14 years as my default desktop/laptop OS. One of the major problems with Linux is that it there is no consistency with it. You can tweak it to look and behave like anything you want. There are several different packaged versions of the operating system, called distributions. The distros do what they want with the OS. There is no "unity of command" with Linux, which makes it hard to make applications that will run on all the distros. It's sort of like the wild west of operating systems.

There are many different desktop user interfaces (UIs) for Linux. The two most popular are GNOME and KDE. GNOME is this simple, fast, elegant, good looking desktop that just works out of the box. It has limited configuration options that seemed to get more limited with each release. KDE, on the other hand, looks just as good, if not better, is a little more advanced (IMO) than GNOME, and has a ton of configuration options.

Giving Linux' wild west style, you would think that most Linux users would prefer KDE. Well, that is not so. Although they have been neck and neck in the past, but most Linux users prefer GNOME. Even most users of the so called "hacker OS" like simple and elegant over highly customizable.

Except me. I always preferred KDE to GNOME. I like changing stuff and moving stuff around. So I was very shocked that I actually prefer webOS to Android on the same device. Everything just plain looks better in webOS. The fonts, the size and spacing between icons, the minimalistic desktop, the icons on the bottom, the keyboard, everything. Even the settings for webOS are more simple and work across the entire system. To top it off, the UI just behaved better with webOS (cards and all).

I don't want to start a flame war. It would be ridiculous anyway, since I'm about to buy an Android phone (waiting for Black Friday). I do want to apologize to all the GNOME users out there. I still prefer KDE, but I get it now. I understand your argument. I'll take just works and looks elegant (webOS) over highly customizable yet hooky looking (Android). I guess I have become lazy with my old age.

BTW, I do patch and use Preware and even it seems more rewarding. I will donate $25 to the CM guys on payday for all their work, but it looks like I'm sticking with webOS.

For all of you that have both CM and webOS on your TouchPad, what do you think? Please be respectful of others opinions and remember that they are just opinions so don't take it personally........

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities

Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 11/12/2011 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 11/12/2011, 08:59 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Wow I really like your post, thanks. I don't have time to install another operating system as making webOS more comfortable and versatile takes up all my free time. So to me you are like a travel writer, venturing to places I don't have the resources to go to and coming back to bring me your tales and having me appreciate my home ground all over time.

"There's no place like home. There's no place like home."
--Dorothy
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Old 11/12/2011, 09:28 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Elegantly written...and also like bluenote I've been spending all my time playing with webOS and have not ventured into the world of Android. That's not to say that I won't try it when/if ICS is ported to the Touchpad but for now I'm liking webOS. I keep trying to 'swipe' my iOS Apps off their screens now
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Old 11/12/2011, 10:14 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Bluenote and AZTouchpad,

Thanks for your praise. I wrote this an epiphany more than anything else. With webOS, I now understand where the GNOME folks are coming from with their arguments. I also understand the frustrations that new users have with Android. I hope that webOS stays alive and folks continue to develop more interesting and compelling apps and hardware for it. I've always thought that above all others, webOS is the best representation of how mobile Linux should look and feel. It is GNOME and Android is KDE. Too bad it is not open source.

If you feel like being adventurous sometime, give Cyanogenmod a try. It only takes about 25 minutes to install (10 minutes to download files and read instructions, 15 minutes waiting on installer to finish). At the least you will have NetFlix.

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Old 11/12/2011, 11:03 AM   #5 (permalink)
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k4ever,

This is part of why I'm a Windows user. GNOME and KDE and all of the myriad of Linux distributions, have become so much of a hassle for me, that I just can't deal with screwing with them all the time to keep them up to date and running. Windows may have some nasty issues, but it's nothing compared to the lack of sanity in Linux GUIs, and for that matter, open source programs in general. Just open up any GNOME Toolkit 2.x application's File Open dialog box, and weep for what someone in their group considered "optimal". You can't even type a gd name into it, without knowing that "Ctrl-F" allows you to find in that box . . so, you can find, but you can't actually type a fully qualified path+filename, ie something that resides in a different directory. And Ctrl-F doesn't work anywhere else in any other standard dialog.

CM7 reminds me of Firefox after you install the dozens of extensions necessary to make it work like Opera does out of the "box" -- a giant mishmash of everyone's favorite pet feature without a coherent interface.
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Old 11/12/2011, 12:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Your analogy is spot on. I have also been a Linux user for a long time and have had highly customized KDE installations and basic Gnome installations as well as several other window managers. As of now I have a slightly customized version of Gnome that does exactly what I need and nothing more.

I have had several Android tablets over the last couple of years and feel the same way about Android vs. webOS. I uninstalled CM from my TP a few days after installing it because I can do 90% of what I need in webOS and I prefer the webOS UX. I prefer to think of the 10% as motivation to continue developing for webOS. Nothing against CM I think they do great things for the community. I wouldn't have purchased my NOOK Color if CM didn't exist.

It's nice to have options.
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Old 11/12/2011, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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k4ever,

This is part of why I'm a Windows user. GNOME and KDE and all of the myriad of Linux distributions, have become so much of a hassle for me, that I just can't deal with screwing with them all the time to keep them up to date and running. Windows may have some nasty issues, but it's nothing compared to the lack of sanity in Linux GUIs, and for that matter, open source programs in general. Just open up any GNOME Toolkit 2.x application's File Open dialog box, and weep for what someone in their group considered "optimal". You can't even type a gd name into it, without knowing that "Ctrl-F" allows you to find in that box . . so, you can find, but you can't actually type a fully qualified path+filename, ie something that resides in a different directory. And Ctrl-F doesn't work anywhere else in any other standard dialog.

CM7 reminds me of Firefox after you install the dozens of extensions necessary to make it work like Opera does out of the "box" -- a giant mishmash of everyone's favorite pet feature without a coherent interface.
The thing I never agreed with is GNOME developers' seemingly treating their users like idiots. The desktop looks elegant, but they limit the customization. I like the KDE approach that allows you to customize it the way you want while remaining elegant looking. Windows is a completely different story. It has too many distractions. Too many pop-ups reminding me to do stuff that I don't want to do. I booted my desktop into Windows 7 to install CM7 on the TouchPad and I spent over 30 minutes answering the multiple pop-ups to update programs, register programs, and check unimportant security settings. That will teach me to wait a week to boot into Windows. The cash register needs to be fed more often than that. I still keep Windows around to play games. That's about it for me.

I'm not going to knock CM7. I will say that Android in general is a mismatch. I feel that there is no consistency what so ever with it.

--Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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Old 11/12/2011, 04:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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after I installed CM7, I hardly wanted to use it and removed it after trying for 1 week. The problem is no matter how hard you customize, you can't change android's backbone. The thing I couldn't adapt the most is the need of constantly move your hand to press the home and back buttons down below, either on the OS or in an app. It's so unintuitive and annoying! And the notification menu is a joke compared to webOS. How do I know if I get notifications when its menu is hide below?

after using webOS as my first mobile OS, the standard in my mind has been raised so high and I can hardly like other OS. Sure android and iOS have thousands of apps, but I don't find myself truly need so many area focused apps from them.
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Old 11/12/2011, 05:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Also, as I use a Pre now combined with my TouchPad, I discover that it is ultimately much more important to have apps that have consistent interfaces that go along with both the phones and the tablets. This "just use the browser" crap is just not right, unless our browser were able to intelligently reformat the content into a proper interface for our UI. Which was actually one of the original points of HTML, however there's no way that that could possibly be applied to the modern web.

I can't speak for Android in general, only CM as that is the only Android product I have used for any length of time larger than a few minutes. Aside from the super awesome visuals that I've seen on a friend's Android apps, all of which -should- be easily duplicateable in webOS, however the app builders for the webOS versions of those apps did not ... There's not much compelling me to use Android.

There may not be a lot of apps for webOS, but there sure are a lot of good apps. Especially when you consider that the vast majority of my Internet usage involves various internet forums, which are all handled by Communities, save for 2 (one is a secure forum, so it won't work, and the other one the guys are afraid to lose their all important ad revenue if they install tapatalk) . . . Skype (which for the most part works, although it's quite annoying when it doesn't), and email.

BHome + TouchPlayer for videos on my network, Communities/Messenger/Mail for internet communications, GVoice for non-internet communications, and linphone on my Pre for voice comm that isn't already covered by Skype. My whole Internet usage is pretty much covered there.

I only boot Android to show off Dungeon Defenders or to play Words With Friends. I haven't even -looked- at my iPod since I got the TouchPad, except to login to mint once.

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
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Old 11/12/2011, 05:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The funny thing about your story is, that the successor, Gnome 3 with Gnome Shell, is the Linux desktop which comes closest to the webOS experience.
As a long time Linux user I tried and used plenty of Desktop environments (KDE, Gnome 2, Enlightenment, Fluxbox) and finally Gnome 3 made me happy.
Then I bought my Veer and later on the Touchpad and I noticed, how much Gnoms 3 is "inspired" by webOS.
WebOS is still better in my eyes, as the "Just type" implementation is much faster.
But I can only encourage you to give it a try with Gnome 3...
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Old 11/12/2011, 07:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I think the problem with Android for me is that it always seems to be a work in progress. Even after spending hours setting it up, I can never get it "just right". There is also a greater need to update apps because for some reason the previous versions start crashing. I rarely have to reboot my Pre- and, with 3.0.4 and the restart PulseAudio app, I never have to reboot my TouchPad. However my friends are constantly rebooting their new Android devices. There has been some funny conversations at work about smartphones in general that always seem to end with a longing for the old "dumb" phones that just made phone calls without the hassle. I think back to the discussions I've had in numerous Linux forums with GNOME users when I complained about a bug in KDE, especially when KDE 4.x was released. My refusal to let go of webOS is like the GNOME communities refusal to let go of 2.x. Once you find something that works well for you, you don't want to let it go.

I think the most compelling part of the whole story is that when I run webOS and Android on the same or simular hardware, I crave webOS over Android. I like 3.0.4 over CM7 on the TouchPad. I'm sure that if HP would release a slab phone with all the hardware bells and whistles that an Android phone or iPhone had, many people will chose the webOS version. Most of us know that the Pre and Pixi lines failed because a lot of folks did not like the form factors. Add that to the slider issues with the earlier Pre models and you have a recipe for low acceptance rates. HP/Palm's failure was in not producing a simple slab phone to give us another form factor to chose from.

I will boot into CM7 some more and tweak it some more, but I don't see a future for it on my TouchPad unless HP completely kills support for webOS. I appreciate all the hard work and dedication the CM team put into it, but it will remain a last resort for me.

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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Old 11/12/2011, 07:47 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'll stick with Windows. It works with all of my hardware, and I haven't had to muck with kernel source code or xorg.conf in 7 years, other than the occasional foray into it just to see if the hardware support has improved any. I'd like to keep it that way..

http://www.explainxkcd.com/2011/10/12/x11/

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
GO OPEN WEBOS!
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Old 11/12/2011, 08:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'll stick with Windows. It works with all of my hardware, and I haven't had to muck with kernel source code or xorg.conf in 7 years, other than the occasional foray into it just to see if the hardware support has improved any. I'd like to keep it that way..

http://www.explainxkcd.com/2011/10/12/x11/

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities

Trust me, I'm not trying to convert you into a Linux user (webOS has already done that ). To each his own. Linux has gotten so simple to use over the past few years setup has become an afterthought. You don't even need an xorg.conf file anymore. The system automatically configures itself for your video card using the correct settings. I also haven't compile a kernel in years because the distro compile every driver you can imagine into the newer kernels and DKMS handles the rest. Long gone is the minimalistic and "clean" kernel thinking of the past. Major Linux distros are all about ease of use now.

That brings me back to the point of my thread. I think webOS' ease of use is better than Android at this point. I sure hope HP decides to keep it and develop it further.


-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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Old 11/12/2011, 08:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Don't have too much experience with Linux OS, don't think I'll be use it on my TP anytime soon but it was an interesting and an educational read.
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Old 11/12/2011, 09:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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WebOS is linux based, so you're already using it. I was a devout Linux user for many years, but I realized I missed out on a decade or so of computing having been a devout OS/2 and Linux user. And then I pick webOS.. Haha.

I think the final final straw, was that several Linux users have told me that it is -impossible- to use onboard ATI video display for two monitors and PCI-E nVidia display for two monitors, in Windows or Linux. It works fine in Windows, with no advanced configuration necessary at all. It -also- works fine in Ubuntu, but only during the installation. Once you actually have the system installed, you have to resort to God only knows what to get it to work. I never figured out what.

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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Remove Messaging Beeps patch for webOS 3.0.5, Left/Right bezel gestures in LunaCE,
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(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
GO OPEN WEBOS!
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Old 11/13/2011, 09:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by eblade View Post

I think the final final straw, was that several Linux users have told me that it is -impossible- to use onboard ATI video display for two monitors and PCI-E nVidia display for two monitors, in Windows or Linux. It works fine in Windows, with no advanced configuration necessary at all. It -also- works fine in Ubuntu, but only during the installation. Once you actually have the system installed, you have to resort to God only knows what to get it to work. I never figured out what.
Im not kidding this is the EXACT issue that keeps with Win7
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Old 11/13/2011, 10:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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... So, when I need Linux, I either boot my netbook that has xubuntu, or I run an emulator on my main PC that has kubuntu (since the regular ubuntu refused to work properly on my quad monitor system, even under emulation)

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
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Quote:
(1:39:33 PM) halfhalo: Android multitasking is like sticking your fingers into a blender
GO OPEN WEBOS!
People asked me for a donate link for my non-catalog work, so here you are:
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Old 09/23/2012, 07:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
I recently installed Cyanogenmod 7.1 on my TouchPad with all of its Android goodness. I originally asked for an Android ROM (at XDA Developers Forum) when HP first announced killing the TouchPad. With webOS still in limbo and with all of the good things being said about the CM ROM, I decided to give it a try. It took me two times to install it (did not have the recommended 2.5GB space at first), but once I got it installed it booted up fine. I played with it for about 20 minutes on the first day, then booted back into webOS.

This morning I decided to give it another try. I spent 3 hours in it tweaking and massaging it to make it look more palatable to me. I've used Android almost since the beginning and still have a lot of apps purchased under my account. I installed the paid version of ADW Launcher (EX) and Beautiful Widgets from the market and pimped out the UI. I watched part of a NetFlix movie (Kevin Hart, little man is funny!) and played a few games. Overall CM was nice. However, afterwards I booted back into webOS.

Why? What went wrong? Well, really nothing. Android was adequate and worked well. Ok, I can't say nothing. I found myself wanting something more simple and elegant. I didn't want to spend more time setting up the UI to look more pleasant. I didn't want to waste my time organizing widgets on 5 virtual screens or even deciding if 5 screens is too much or too little. I didn't want to mess with drawer configurations, icon sizes, or trying to make the fonts look better. I also did not want to dig through various settings just to get the browsers to default to desktop view. The default browser for webOS is slow, but it is simple and does what I want it to the first time.

I realized after all this that I have become something weird. I have become the like the hybrid of the Linux community. I have become a GNOME (2.x) user.

For those of you that don't know, Linux is a versatile operating system that is used on a ton of devices. Both Android and webOS use Linux as their core operating system. Linux competes with Windows on the desktop. I've been using Linux for over 14 years as my default desktop/laptop OS. One of the major problems with Linux is that it there is no consistency with it. You can tweak it to look and behave like anything you want. There are several different packaged versions of the operating system, called distributions. The distros do what they want with the OS. There is no "unity of command" with Linux, which makes it hard to make applications that will run on all the distros. It's sort of like the wild west of operating systems.

There are many different desktop user interfaces (UIs) for Linux. The two most popular are GNOME and KDE. GNOME is this simple, fast, elegant, good looking desktop that just works out of the box. It has limited configuration options that seemed to get more limited with each release. KDE, on the other hand, looks just as good, if not better, is a little more advanced (IMO) than GNOME, and has a ton of configuration options.

Giving Linux' wild west style, you would think that most Linux users would prefer KDE. Well, that is not so. Although they have been neck and neck in the past, but most Linux users prefer GNOME. Even most users of the so called "hacker OS" like simple and elegant over highly customizable.

Except me. I always preferred KDE to GNOME. I like changing stuff and moving stuff around. So I was very shocked that I actually prefer webOS to Android on the same device. Everything just plain looks better in webOS. The fonts, the size and spacing between icons, the minimalistic desktop, the icons on the bottom, the keyboard, everything. Even the settings for webOS are more simple and work across the entire system. To top it off, the UI just behaved better with webOS (cards and all).

I don't want to start a flame war. It would be ridiculous anyway, since I'm about to buy an Android phone (waiting for Black Friday). I do want to apologize to all the GNOME users out there. I still prefer KDE, but I get it now. I understand your argument. I'll take just works and looks elegant (webOS) over highly customizable yet hooky looking (Android). I guess I have become lazy with my old age.

BTW, I do patch and use Preware and even it seems more rewarding. I will donate $25 to the CM guys on payday for all their work, but it looks like I'm sticking with webOS.

For all of you that have both CM and webOS on your TouchPad, what do you think? Please be respectful of others opinions and remember that they are just opinions so don't take it personally........

-- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
Wow! A lot has happened in the world since my original post.

The venerable GNOME community has splintered with the release of GNOME 3. Ubuntu, who pushed GNOME 3.x and their Unity UI was knocked out of the number 1 Linux distro position by my favorite distro, Linux Mint. Linux Mint enjoys the top spot because their MATE desktop resembles the look and feel of GNOME 2.x. KDE is at version 4.9.1 and is more beautiful and more stable then ever (even better than KDE 3.5.x and making GNOME look old).

Apple won its lawsuit against Samsung causing ripples in the Android community. Apple released the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 with a crappy map application that is getting people lost. People are still lining up for Apple products which I find amazing and sad (their good, but not that good. Get a life!).

Microsoft keeps trying to push its Windows Mobile/Phone/7/8 junk on the rest of the world. They even have HP convinced that "things will be better this time" (didn't HP have a Windows Mobile phone line a while back that didn't sell that well?). Worked out pretty well for Nokia. Didn't it?

HP released the code for the webOS UI, Luna (Luna CE), and the folks over at webOS internals/ports took no time at all dazzling us with new features, smoothness, and stability. HP also release an open embedded version of webOS without a UI and a desktop version without apps. Don't know what they were thinking in that department.

I installed and removed both CM7 and CM9 on my TouchPad several times. Even dabble a little with native ( and chroot) Ubuntu on my TouchPad. I settle with just CM9 as a backup OS. I boot into it every now and then to "see what I've been missing", only to boot back to webOS less than a few hours later. I think my longest time in CM9 was about 4 days (I had to force myself to stay with it that long). I have Luna CE installed and even though I had to relearn swiping between open apps (I still go into card view every now and then) I like it more than using Android.

I highly prefer webOS' UI to that of ICS (CM9, aka Android 4.x) (Sorry Matias, you tried man!). It's smoother and unobstrusive. The apps look great and there is a unified look and feel. I still get lost in Android and I am afraid of switching away from an app I'm currently using because Android's "multitasking" is a little erratic. Some apps still run in the background, some apps suspend, and some apps "start over" when you come back to them. I have to write each app's behavior down to keep it all straight.

The default Android apps have gotten a lot better. The gallery looks great, the calendar looks great, the email app looks great, Apollo (Android music player) looks good, and maps looks and behaves excellent. Problem is that there is still no unified look and feel between even the default apps in Android, let alone the other apps on the market (Play or whatever they are calling it this week). Over a year with Android on the tablet, and still there is a majority of phone apps and apps that default to portrait view vs landscaping (Spotify!). Ugh! Most Android web browsers still default to mobile website mode even though I'm on a tablet with wifi only.

I can understand why Apple is mopping the floor with competition (Android) in the tablet space (and holding its own with one cell phone vs the many). Even though Google has Matias working for them and now have Project Butter, they still seem to place function over form. This is not necessarily a bad thing. However, Apple gives form and function equal billing which makes for more polished products. For example there have been at least a half a dozen updates to the Kindle app on Android and none to the app on webOS, yet the webOS app has animated pages and, IMO, looks and works better than its Android counterpart. The Android app has a few more features, but looks plain and seems like a pain to use (vs the competition). IBooks puts them both to shame.

I bought that Android phone, an HTC EVO 3D, but quickly went back to the Palm Pre. I was able to get another Pre in pristine condition. I initially installed webOS 2.x on it, but quickly went back to 1.4.5 because of the instabilities. 1.4.5 is showing its age big time. The browser is slow and doesn't have Flash. I will get the occasional stuttering when I get a notification, especially in portrait mode. However, I prefer it over Android because of ease of use.

Really I'm sticking with it right now because of email and the ease of setting up a wifi hotspot. WebOS 1.4.5's email app is still light years ahead of Android's offerings. Also, webOS' multitasking plus notification system makes switching between web browsing or playing a game to answering email and text messages a breeze. Plus it is reliable and the all of the apps behave the same way when switching away from them.

I'm committed to the webOS community and want to see open webOS succeed. I've even taught myself HTML, CSS, and I am slowly learing the ins and outs of Java scripting so I can eventually give back to the community. Enyo is kicking my **** (do to a lack of good, one stop shop documentation) and has forced me deeper into the books on Java scripting. Hopefully I can figure Enyo out soon before I lose all of my hair (from pulling it out). I'm committed in effort but I don't want to be committed to a mental instution! I hope this community holds it together and stays strong! Peace and much love to everyone!
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Old 10/18/2012, 10:17 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Best Thread EVER! I'm linux only, I have NEVER used windows, and don't plan to start now. I won't bother getting into the debate over it. I like gnome and always have. It's fast and easy. Thats all that matters to me about it. I guess I'm just used to it now. WebOS is my favorite mobile os to date. I had an Iphone4 and got rid of it for the pre3 which I love dearly. My touchpad I use every single day for every task I can. If there is something the touchpad can't do, a quick swipe to ubuntu chroot usually gets it done for me. I have cm9 on here, but to be honest haven't booted it since shortly after I installed it. I don't care for the complete lack of any consistancy in it. You never have any and I mean ANY idea what the 'back' button will do next. Every app uses it differently, drives me CRAZY!!! I'm glad to meet and greet with others that feel the same way. I have mhigh hopes we will be able to continue to use our favorite os's for a long time to come....
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