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  1. #81  
    I can usually spot somebody that is overly fanish because when you disagree or criticize their object of affection they usually strikeout with insults and name calling.
    Yours truly
    Mr Foolish
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    Doesn't seem to have hurt them any strategically or financially. There are lots of right ways to run a business. No reason to demonize any one way.



    You mean with a product they just pulled the plug on?
    Apple was hurting pretty badly before they released the iPod. I remember when they were the desktop kings. Used Apple IIc computers in high school. Windows on PCs captured over 90% of the desktop market leaving Apple with only 4%. Desktop Linux was beating them at one point. Steve Jobs came back, launched MacOS-X, then the iPod, then the iPhone, and they have been running on all cylinders since then. However, they have lost market share to low cost Android phones in the mobile market and everyone thinks tablets, to include the iPad are expensive toys. If HP were to continue the path that they are on now with Touchpad pricing, they would take a big chunk out of iPad sells. Apple needs the iPad to stay on top.

    We all know that HP pulled the plug on the Touchpad. In doing so they made it more famous and more sought after than ever. Everyone I have talked to about it knows what it is now. It's the tablet that people stood in lines for and no one can get now. I hope HP has a change of heart and decides to sell them again at the firesale price. They will take a loss but they can make that up by killing advertisement and training.
  3. #83  
    The CEO and board members of HP are going to kill the company. Between buying Palm, then killing it, then selling off the PC division... They think they're IBM?

    I won't lie, I wouldn't have bought the Touchpad if not for the $99 price tag. Saying that, I didn't and wouldn't buy the iPad or Android tablets either. If the apps don't get better for the TP, I will likely sell it for the $100 I paid. Maybe the surge will make HP think twice?

    For what they are, tablets shouldn't cost more than $200. They're under powered, low memory, and have minimal use. I was surprised at webOS. I really like it. But there isn't much I can do with it. I don't like browsing on a touch screen with a gimmicky browser. I don't Facebook much and don't Twitter.
  4. #84  
    I like Webos,it needs a lot of polish and apps but I'm not sure it will happen unless some other manufacturers license it from HP. What I'm curious to see is if Amazon comes out with a tablet that they sell cheap and subsidize it with all their services,books, movie rental,apps store,web services and such.If they thought they came make money off all that and sell the tablet at cost it might change everything in the tablet market.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    However, they have lost market share to low cost Android phones in the mobile market and everyone thinks tablets, to include the iPad are expensive toys. If HP were to continue the path that they are on now with Touchpad pricing, they would take a big chunk out of iPad sells. Apple needs the iPad to stay on top.
    Firesale pricing is not a sustainable business proposition. HP nor anyone can sustain the firesale pricing.

    Apple has 20 million iPad unit in the wild right now.

    Apple and HP have similar BOM (Build of material cost) @ $300 per unit. HP lost approximately $200 per unit during the firesale.

    To match Apple's market share, they would lose $4 billion dollars @ firesale pricing.
    ($200 loss per unit * 20 million units= 4,000,000,000).

    As for licensing. If HP licensed webOS to HTC or Samsung @ $5 for unit, HTC/Samsung would need to sell 60 million units to recoup the lost they made on the firesale.
    Fire sale expected loss was 300 million ( 60 million units from licensee @ $5 a license = 300 million).

    So just looking at the numbers, it would be difficult for HP to compete.

    iPad pretty much owns the market. They have a secret sauce that has nothing to do with specs or technical features.

    Their secret sauce is "supply chain" and strategic investment.

    Remember when we had that oil crisis a few years back and all the airlines were filing bankruptcy. Southwest Airlines hedged their bets and secured future contracts on oil @ $70 a barrel. They were sitting pretty when oil shot up to $140 a barrel. Same analogy at Apple. Apple locked the manufacturing and components. you can Google this information " Apple supply chain logistics".

    Some examples: Apple controls 60% of the LCD market; leaving leftovers for the competition.

    Login to DIGITIMES archive & research

    Apple’s Secret Sauce Revisited: Strategically Investing in Supply Chain Capabilities | Supply Chain Matters

    Apple supply chain strength weakens competition - Logistics

    This article, specifically names HP Touchpad as a victime

    http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/08/...ourcing-deals/

    For one, Apple has exclusive deals with hardware manufacturers for the best parts. This means that HP couldn’t get the same display as the iPad, it could only source the second best. It’s not that HP didn’t want to get the best, or wouldn’t pay for it, it simply was not available to them, period. If HP wanted display technology for production units that rivaled the iPads, it would have to wait until Apple’s exclusivity deals on hardware ran out.


    In terms of tablets,the iPad owns the market. Timothy Cook is on record of saying they have market in terms of pricing and they're willing to drop the price at any moment if the competition is in reach. They secured component pricing, over-booked manufacturing where companies like FoxConn spends 23 hours on Apple products and the last hour of the day is being split up between HP, Motorola, HTC,etc.. This is why nobody can really drop the prices less than Apple. The Xoom came out at 800. Apple is making money @ $499 and competitors are finding it difficult to meet price parity. Apple planned this years ago like they did w/ the iPod Nano. The iPod Nano NAND flash shortage was the stroke of genius from Timothy Cook. That whole episode killeed off the Zune, Creative Zen, Sansa and the likes.

    Apple is in a good position right now.

    Even though they are losing market share to Android, they're still in a different league. Even with 20% of the market, they command 60% of all the profit in the mobile space. Just google it. Their supply-chain procurement is pretty awesome in terms of just efficiency and profits. Furthermore, no other single entity out-sells the iPhone. Yes, as a whole, the Android "army" outsells the iPhone but no single competitor or single phone outsells the iPhone. The highest selling Android phone is the SG2 w/ 5 million shipments last quarter vs the iPhone's 20 million shipment.

    While everyone chases to the bottom, Apple is enjoying its profits. They have 76 billion in real cash. The are in a position where they can take scary risks.

    Lastly, unlike cellphones, Tablets have different playbook rules. There is no BOGO (Buy one get one free tablets) and there are no carrier subsidies. End users can get a free Droid X @ 2 year contract but they can't get a Motorola XOOM for free. Hence, there has been no real impact. The only company that even has a remote chance is Amazon but reports say they will have to use cheaper components and lower quality materials to even get at the $250 loss leader pricing they want.
    Last edited by virtualjock; 08/28/2011 at 09:38 PM.
    ap3604 likes this.
  6. #86  
    I think Amazon will give Apple a run for it's money on tablets. They WILL need to make some spec concessions (as did/doesApple) to hit their rumored $200-$250 price point, so I will find it interesting what they leave off.
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by finngirl View Post
    I think Amazon will give Apple a run for it's money on tablets. They WILL need to make some spec concessions (as did/doesApple) to hit their rumored $200-$250 price point, so I will find it interesting what they leave off.
    That would be interesting but Apps, what about Apps?

    Is Amazon Android based?
  8. #88  
    I think it is supposed to be. And unlike every other tablet manufacturer, Amazon CAN sell hardware at a loss or near cost, because they have not just the ultimate "accessories" store but they also have a profitable back end with their data mining.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    The should have used no celebrities, just a pair of hands showing what the device can do. Any decent looking hands will do, and for cheap.

    TP had to many obstacles to overcome (not listed in any particular order):
    1: Leo
    2: Price
    3: Timing
    4: Construction quality
    5: Specs (not up to modern tablet specs)
    6: OS (not in prime condition, patches don't count)
    7: Environment (limited apps and no doc editing among many others)
    8: Perception
    I get 1-3. 4 I am not sure of, I've been through 2 iPads which had issues so cant really say it's perfect, I also get 6-8, but I don't get 5. The iPad has a 1.2 ghz dual core processor, 1gb of ram, a 1.3 mpx front facing camera, gyro, compas, ECT, even vibrating mechanism. The iPad 2 has an 800 MHz processor, 512 mb of ram, and a vga front facing camera and a .3 mpx back camera and no vibrator. Considering this is the tablet everyone compares to, I don't get how it's specs aren't still impressive? Even android tablets don't have all these specs, some yes, and some better, but some worse. I say performance issues are only related to the OS.

    P.s. Not meaning this as an argument or anything I sincerely am just curious what specs are superior enough to not call this modern? The processor is actually capable of 1.5 I'd say tweaking it to that should be by default. The white touchpad is the same innards just a kernel that uses the 1.5
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  10. #90  
    "iPad Met its Match in the TouchPad" - Ha! lol.

    Look, I was first in line at my local Sprint store when the Pre came out. I think webOS is the best portable platform I've ever used. I stuck with the pre for a couple of years, and only when I realized that webOS wasn't going anywhere did I give it up and move on.

    I'm one of the ones that picked up a firesale TP. Ah, the awesome webOS that I remembered - and even better than I remembered. Read email, browsed the web, etc.

    Then I started thinking about things I could use it for at my business. Lots of things I need to do, and I just never thought much about a tablet until I got this one for $149.

    One need after another, I was let down by the inability to do on the TP because of the lack of apps - or the lack of an app that was even 50% as polished as a IOS app in the same genre.

    So now I got myself realizing how much time and money I could save using a tablet to do a lot of things. So I sold my $149 TP and bought a $749 Ipad.

    Think about how many people there are like me that never thought about using a tablet in the past - that will see that using one is a good idea - and will end up buying an Ipad so they can actually DO something with it other than email and web.

    It's all about the apps. As much as I love webOS, I'd have to be totally blind to not see that webOS apps are never going to be as numerous or as "good" as IOS apps.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by rexalbel View Post
    I get 1-3. 4 I am not sure of, I've been through 2 iPads which had issues so cant really say it's perfect, I also get 6-8, but I don't get 5. The iPad has a 1.2 ghz dual core processor, 1gb of ram, a 1.3 mpx front facing camera, gyro, compas, ECT, even vibrating mechanism. The iPad 2 has an 800 MHz processor, 512 mb of ram, and a vga front facing camera and a .3 mpx back camera and no vibrator. Considering this is the tablet everyone compares to, I don't get how it's specs aren't still impressive? Even android tablets don't have all these specs, some yes, and some better, but some worse. I say performance issues are only related to the OS.

    P.s. Not meaning this as an argument or anything I sincerely am just curious what specs are superior enough to not call this modern? The processor is actually capable of 1.5 I'd say tweaking it to that should be by default. The white touchpad is the same innards just a kernel that uses the 1.5
    I have my Touchpad overclocked to 1.5 and every preware speed up I could find. What is inteesting is that the iPad is still faster at everything. It's clearly optimized better and another intesting thing I have run into is that even though the Touchpad has nearly twice the RAM, when I have two many cards open and then try to play a game like Glyder 2, the game can't load. Apparently, the way WebOS runs doesn't auto shutdown programs not in use, so the RAM can be optimized for the program you are currently using. If I am wrong, I'd love for someone to explain why this is happening on my TP.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by drfp View Post
    besides apps what is better with the Ipad again?
    Can you really remove apps from the equation when comparing the iPad to any other tablet? That's like saying, "Besides having everything you could ever possibly want, what does Wal-mart have that Walgreens doesn't? They both carry the basic necessities." For better or worse, the Apple App Store is the Wal-mart of app stores -- if there is something you need the iPad to do, there is likely ... an app for that. That really does play an enormous factor in its popularity.
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