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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by ncinerate View Post
    I just don't see that sort of OS being adopted as a desktop interface. Call me a luddite or something but I feel like we've arrived at the basic end-result product and everything from here should be refinements, not overhauls.
    From the video, I conclude that Windows 8 is merely an optional UI for Windows. Just like Windows Media Center Edition was not a brand new Windows, but included the Media Center UI for optimizing the interface for TV watching.

    If I am correct, Windows 8 will be exactly like Windows 7--as long as you don't launch the "touch" UI that makes it Windows 8.

    Will be interesting to see how the non-x86 version works, however.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    From the video, I conclude that Windows 8 is merely an optional UI for Windows. Just like Windows Media Center Edition was not a brand new Windows, but included the Media Center UI for optimizing the interface for TV watching.

    If I am correct, Windows 8 will be exactly like Windows 7--as long as you don't launch the "touch" UI that makes it Windows 8.

    Will be interesting to see how the non-x86 version works, however.
    Well, partially, but it's not 'exactly like Windows 7'. If you check the Building Windows 8 blog, they show some of the changes to the desktop view:

    Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    One that will be controversial is the Ribbon in Windows Explorer (which personally I think that it's better in Office... just takes a while to get used to), but other than that the improvements are obvious already (especially the posts about file transfers).
  3. #23  
    Yes there are bound to be some minor changes, just as there were from Vista to Win7. Personally I find the ribbon thing in Office annoying, and I've never gotten used to the new control panel organization.

    But I was responding to ncinerate's concerns about Windows 8 being too "dumbed down" for the desktop. Minor changes aside, just don't launch the "touch" UI and it's basically good ol' Windows.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
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    #24  
    This is off topic sort of, but perhaps will it be very similar to OS on Windows7 phones?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by dsmturbo View Post
    This is off topic sort of, but perhaps will it be very similar to OS on Windows7 phones?
    Yes, I think that is exactly what they were striving for.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  6. #26  
    @jhoff80
    I totally agree with you about Windows on tablets. While all other platforms are offering some compatible solutions, Windows tablets are absolute native experience. Dragging and dropping, work in tiled windows, parallel tasking, content consumption and serious work in same package are only possible on windows tablets. Plugging of external hard disks and 3G USB modems without any need for hacking, unlocking and jailbreaking is only possible on windows slates.
    I haven't bought one only because limited budget I had for purchase which was enough only for Acer's w500. I do like it, but only 4hrs of battery life and noticeable weight made me not to buy it. I was in love with 12" Asus slate, but it is out of my league. I went for Ipad2, but my next tablet will be Windows8 machine almost certainly. In reality, all other stuff today on the market are only expensive toys.
  7. #27  
    Chalx, there will be two flavors of Windows 8 tablets: the ones with an ARM CPU and the ones with an x86. From what you need out of a tablet, you're going to want an x86 version, which will probably be just as expensive and heavy as they are today. I assume the ARM versions will be more in line with current tablet offerings running phone-based OSes, but it will be much more limited in capabilities.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    Chalx, there will be two flavors of Windows 8 tablets: the ones with an ARM CPU and the ones with an x86. From what you need out of a tablet, you're going to want an x86 version, which will probably be just as expensive and heavy as they are today. I assume the ARM versions will be more in line with current tablet offerings running phone-based OSes, but it will be much more limited in capabilities.
    The Samsung Series 7 is x86 (Core i5), and thinner than the Touchpad, and at 1.96 pounds, nearly as light as the Touchpad, so that line is pretty blurred.

    And the ARM version was demonstrated with a keyboard and mouse and full versions of Office and IE10, so again, that line is blurred.

    Of course, third-party software might be an issue, because they haven't announced anything about compiling for ARM. I assume they'll announce the situation next week at BUILD.

    I'm pretty impressed by the boot time video mentioned at their blog, myself:

    Delivering fast boot times in Windows 8 - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    I mean, my current laptop with an SSD only takes about 30 seconds to boot from being shut down, but still that's impressive to cut down another 20 or so seconds from it.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The Samsung Series 7 is x86 (Core i5), and thinner than the Touchpad, and at 1.96 pounds, nearly as light as the Touchpad, so that line is pretty blurred.
    How is the battery life on something like that?
  10. #30  
    @Syndil, @jhoff80
    there was announcements that Windows8 will not support standard PC versions of existing apps. Is this reserved for ARM flavor or for both versions?
    btw. I saw boot video. God, POS is taking longer than booting
  11. #31  
    Pretty sure that's just the ARM version. The x86 version should be compatible with all Windows 7 apps.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    How is the battery life on something like that?
    Rated at 7 hours, early impressions of real-world usage are more like 5 hours.

    Obviously ARM is the future of mobile, but I still need a x86 CPU for my main machine to run all of my old software.

    I'd give it a few years before the Windows ARM software situation is worked out well enough (for my needs), but again we should hear more on that next week.

    I'm pretty sure that Samsung Slate is going to be my next main computer though, like I posted in a thread I made about it: My current laptop is barely holding it together, the performance of that is faster than my 3 year old laptop, and it has Wacom instead of the (not quite as good) N-Trig one I currently have.

    Really, something like that could replace my Touchpad, main laptop (Dell XT), and my HP TC1100 (very old slate PC with Wacom, currently only really fast enough to be a dedicated note-taking device).

    Still, Intel should probably start getting worried. While even a single-core Atom is still faster than the fastest ARM stuff, the performance that ARM is reaching is getting to the point where it's good enough for most people, and of course ARM has a gigantic power-efficiency advantage.
  13. #33  
    To all the people saying that metro is a skin, you're wrong, flat out. The skin on Windows 8 is the "normal" desktop.
    Read this blog:
    Designing for Metro style and the desktop - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    It explains pretty much everything everyone is worried about.
    This part here:
    We believe there is room for a more elegant, perhaps a more nuanced, approach. You get a beautiful, fast and fluid, Metro style interface and a huge variety of new apps to use. These applications have new attributes (a platform) that go well beyond the graphical styling (much to come on this at Build). As we showed, you get an amazing touch experience, and also one that works with mouse, trackpad, and keyboard. And if you want to stay permanently immersed in that Metro world, you will never see the desktop—we won’t even load it (literally the code will not be loaded) unless you explicitly choose to go there! This is Windows reimagined.

    But if you do see value in the desktop experience—in precise control, in powerful windowing and file management, in compatibility with hundreds of thousands of existing programs and devices, in support of your business software, those capabilities are right at your fingertips as well. You don’t need to change to a different device if you want to edit photos or movies professionally, create documents for your job or school, manage a large corpus of media or data, or get done the infinite number of things people do with a PC today. And if you don’t want to do any of those “PC” things, then you don’t have to and you’re not paying for them in memory, battery life, or hardware requirements. If you do want or need this functionality, then you can switch to it with ease and fluidity because Windows is right there. Essentially, you can think of the Windows desktop as just another app.
    That.
    Shiryayev and chalx like this.
  14. #34  
    Soooo.... its pretty much what we wanted webOS to be
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Siah1214 View Post
    To all the people saying that metro is a skin, you're wrong, flat out. The skin on Windows 8 is the "normal" desktop.
    Read this blog:
    Designing for Metro style and the desktop - Building Windows 8 - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

    It explains pretty much everything everyone is worried about.
    This part here:

    That.
    Siah, this doesn't really put the Metro UI or the standard Windows UI as being the "normal" desktop. The UI in Windows is just a shell program that runs within the OS.

    On a Windows machine, Explorer (explorer.exe) is the shell that provides the familiar Windows UI we all know. The start button, the taskbar, the system tray, the desktop and its icons--those are all provided by Explorer.exe. Kill explorer.exe and all you are left with is your wallpaper and a pointer. But you can safely kill the explorer.exe process or even delete explorer.exe entirely and still have a completely usable OS. You just have to press CTRL-ALT-DEL to bring up the task manager and use that as your UI for launching and switching apps. This is Windows "naked."

    On a Windows machine capable of running Media Center, you could actually set the machine to never load explorer.exe and instead load only the Media Center shell (ehshell.exe). While this provided a vastly different user experience from the Explorer shell, the OS underneath was still good old Windows.

    All that MSDN blog tells us is that the user will be able to pick and choose which shell they want to run. But under the hood, it will also still be good old Windows. I assume Windows 8 will come with increased requirements on programmers programming for the OS as they will have to program for both the standard Explorer shell and the Metro shell, but that is more a procedural change than a change to the OS itself.

    Windows 8 gives us one more shell program to choose from--Metro--but Explorer will still be available, and I am sure that, just as the MSDN blog says you can run Metro without running Explorer, you will also be able to run Explorer without running Metro.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Syndil View Post
    I assume Windows 8 will come with increased requirements on programmers programming for the OS as they will have to program for both the standard Explorer shell and the Metro shell, but that is more a procedural change than a change to the OS itself.
    It could just be because it's all early builds, but in the initial demo video, they launch Office from the Metro UI, and it loads the regular old view of Office into a Metro UI window, so I'm not sure they're going to force developers to make something for Metro.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    It could just be because it's all early builds, but in the initial demo video, they launch Office from the Metro UI, and it loads the regular old view of Office into a Metro UI window, so I'm not sure they're going to force developers to make something for Metro.
    I do like option to have desktop on demand Anyway, I don't know will I buy Samsung's win7 slate ( it looks beautiful), but I'm almost certain I'll buy Win8 slate next year.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    It could just be because it's all early builds, but in the initial demo video, they launch Office from the Metro UI, and it loads the regular old view of Office into a Metro UI window, so I'm not sure they're going to force developers to make something for Metro.
    I was thinking along the lines of making a special large icon with updatable content for the Metro shell. Very minor addition, but might be required in addition to the standard desktop icon Explorer uses.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bard View Post
    IF Windows 8 for tablet differs from PC that what good it will be? first time I thought about Windows 8 that will rule the market IF microsoft can make all pc apps runs on tablet without any re-write convert or anything else. Just install like on PC. When will this happen?? I know ARM & x86 differs, but I hope much microsoft can do something revolutioner, but yet seems end dissapointment.
    True, traditional Windows apps will not run on an ARM device; but Windows 8 apps will run on both x86 and ARM devices. Microsoft will have full feature Windows 8 version of all there apps; showing developers the power, usability, and universal reach of porting there traditional Windows apps to Windows 8 apps.
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