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  1. AMR-1's Avatar
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    #21  
    The main factor is how fast HP can get these things out of Asia.... I'd be surprised if they can get 5 million of them out in the short term... (I'd peg demand at 10 million)... I can see why they would set the prices the way they did if they can't make them fast enough, but I still think it was a bad move. I want to tell people to get these things! But I don't want to have to argue with them about why. We need reasons to tout that normal sheeple understand. Having only 1 lower quality camera, the same memory, less apps, the SAME PRICE, that it weighs more and doesn't have video out only leaves things normal folks don't typically comprehend to tout! Getting units out of Asia has been a problem on and off for Nintendo, $ony and Micro$oft, yet they all took an initial hit on "cost to make" -vs- "retail cost" as a loss leader - and they did it to gain market share. Market share is the only thing that is going to gain Devs. Devs are the only thing that are going to get the app count up (unless they figure out a way to pull an emulator for the android market out of their ****). Market share comes from having multiple understandable reasons to get this over that. Get these in the hands of people, Get the App count up, Make money on every app - get multiples of them in the hands of people who can show off the stuff normal folks don't get (ie. multitasking, WebOS smoothness, Flash, gorilla glass, TouchToShare, real notifications, etc.) They needed to take a hit on Version 1 of this thing and keep up with demand (if I could get two [which I can't at $499], I would lend my second one out just to show people how cool the Palm innovations HP is running with are). Versions 2+ can be priced higher - maybe even with a margin
  2. #22  
    this topic should be named "How a topic can be beat to death"

    We understand some people want it cheaper. Either wait til they drop the price or just deal with it. I seriously doubt they will drop the price before it can be even sold.
    In a world of droid, Pre does it better.

    Shouldn't we treat this world like the Garden of Eden and avoid the apple at all costs?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by amrcc View Post
    Getting units out of Asia has been a problem on and off for Nintendo, $ony and Micro$oft, yet they all took an initial hit on "cost to make" -vs- "retail cost" as a loss leader - and they did it to gain market share.
    Not sure how familiar you are with the Video game industry, but consoles are ALWAYS sold as "loss leaders". Regardless of problems getting them out of Asia or anything else. Even when a console is sold for a profit it is very little, ALL of these companies make their money on accessories and game. Very low production cost on accessories and games, HUGE profit margins.

    Unfortunately the computing world (even mobile OS computing) doesn't really work like that. Sure there are some accessories and you have apps, but the margins aren't there when compared to the video game industry.

    Not saying you are wrong in your post, just saying it's an apples to oranges comparison.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  4. #24  
    I just don't see the logic in comparing a little known manufacturers business model with that of a tech giant like HP. Obviously HP needs bigger margins to justify the Palm buyout and marketing push that will be behind the touchpad.

    The touchpad isn't a bargain buy, its supposed to be a premium product, and it's priced as such.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by reggieb View Post
    Yeah, I understand that motivation. I am probably going to end up the weirdo running an Android phone and a TouchPad.
    At least I have both Evo and Pre, so depending on Touchpad and web os support I will have both tablets.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rkguy View Post
    so does the acer iconia. it's not doing so hot right now

    http://forums.precentral.net/other-t...0-percent.html

    Ops. Wait, waait. How much is that iconia? (eats words) - Yah, i'ts $449. hmm.
    Answer:
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    Acer got greedy.

    At $449 the Ionia is no match for the $399 Transformer. As the Transformer gets in stock in all the stores, there is no reason to buy the Iconia.

    Asus has announced it it will again ramp up production. Asus just cannot make enough Transformers.

    The Iconia failed on one spec: price.
    And now here comes the Toshiba Thrive at $429 but it will fail as well.

    The Samsung 10.1 could have been a best seller at $399. At $499, yeah it is thin, light, and fast, but it is $499.

    The 8" Vizio at $349 should do well too. Vizio only recently entered the HDTV market. By beating or matching specs and slashing prices, Vizio has become #1` in HDTV.

    Asus and Vizio got the memo on how to come to a market late.

    Shame on Toshiba and Samsung. They knew better.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 06/15/2011 at 02:57 PM.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    I
    As far as "managing" multiple OS's, I run 3 different versions of windows at home, dual boot...
    Yeah, you’re not the only person that runs more than one computer at home. I know the implications of having different OSs in a house. I do agree that there is an advantage there.

    Still, for my money the “compatibility” of having a phone and a tablet with the same OS is just one positive on a list of positives and negatives. It isn’t the most important thing and it certainly isn’t a showstopper that precludes me from even looking at all the options available.

    To each their own.

    -Suntan
  8. #28  
    The thing that makes the transformer cool is the detachable keyboard, which sells for roughly $150 extra. The $400 tab is pretty average, so you're actually paying $550 to get what makes this thing exceptional. In fact while there's the contrived 'shortage' they are actually selling quite a bit higher.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    I just don't see the logic in comparing a little known manufacturers business model with that of a tech giant like HP. Obviously HP needs bigger margins to justify the Palm buyout and marketing push that will be behind the touchpad.

    The touchpad isn't a bargain buy, its supposed to be a premium product, and it's priced as such.
    I think Maybe that is part of the problem. Yes we may all know that WebOS is great but if you want to put up good numbers you need to a have a difference that people know and care about. As we all know just saying it runs WEBOS!!! is not enough for the public they could give a crap..
    Unless they changed something I think marketing the HP touchpad as "Premium" product is a bad idea because most people except us here will go why should I buy a heavier thicker tablet that is not apple. You have to be aware of the competition and just because you think your product is "premium" doesn't mean the consumers will.

    I'm still intrested in getting one but I have been here since pre-lauch.... I think it would be wise to get WebOS in as many hands as possible so we can get as much Developer attention as possible. That is just my 2 cents.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    I just don't see the logic in comparing a little known manufacturers business model with that of a tech giant like HP. Obviously HP needs bigger margins to justify the Palm buyout and marketing push that will be behind the touchpad.

    The touchpad isn't a bargain buy, its supposed to be a premium product, and it's priced as such.
    That little-known manufacturing company has made a lot of the "HP" branded netbooks, notebooks, laptops, and servers for for much of the past 23 years. Asus also made Palm phones and makes computers under the Dell, Apple, and other brands.

    You may have had Asus computers or phones and didn't even know it.

    Six years ago Asus started selling their own products for the US under their own name and saving the 25% middle man markup.

    In the aisles of Best Buy, business models are compared every day by consumers. And then they cast the only votes that matter.

    So which business model will the consumer prefer?
    • Inventec TouchPad
    • Foxconn iPad
    • Foxconn Xoom
    • Acer Iconia
    • Samsung Tab 10.1
    • Asus Transformer
    • HTC Flyer

    From a US perspective, we would rather not think about the wages and conditions in the sweatshops that make our electronics.

    From an Asian perspective, if they stamp our logos on their products, we will pay more so that we do not have to think about where our toys come from.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 06/15/2011 at 09:45 PM.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    That little-known manufacturing company has made a lot of the "HP" branded netbooks, notebooks, laptops, and servers for for much of the past 23 years. Asus also made Palm phones and makes computers under the Dell, Apple, and other brands.

    You may have had Asus computers or phones and didn't even know it.

    Six years ago Asus started selling their own products in the US under their own name and saving the 25% middle man markup.

    In the aisles of Best Buy, business models are compared every day by consumers. And then they cast the only votes that matter.

    So which business model will the consumer prefer?
    • Inventec TouchPad
    • Foxconn iPad
    • Foxconn Xoom
    • Acer Iconia
    • Samsung Tab 10.1
    • Asus Transformer
    • HTC Flyer

    From a US perspective, we would rather not think about the wages and conditions in the sweatshops that make our electronics.

    From an Asian perspective, if they stamp our logos on their products, we will pay more so that we do not have to think about where our toys come from.
    I'm glad your classroom is always open. You would think by now people would be tired of getting schooled by you and do some research.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinsin07 View Post
    I'm glad your classroom is always open. You would think by now people would be tired of getting schooled by you and do some research.
    Kebbler Cookies aren't really made by elves in a hollow tree. And don't ever ask where Jimmy Dean Pork Sausage comes from.

    We like not knowing who really makes our toys.

    I have a friend who is a Best Buy manager. A lot of their computers are either secretly Asus or have Asus boards. He says it is funny when someone says that they would not get an "Off-brand" computer. They may have never owned an "on-brand" computer...just pretty labels.

    But what is sad is where they are really made. I wish people could get that. People should not work or live like that. It is not just HP, everyone does it but it doesn't make it right.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 06/15/2011 at 10:13 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    I just don't see the logic in comparing a little known manufacturers business model with that of a tech giant like HP. Obviously HP needs bigger margins to justify the Palm buyout and marketing push that will be behind the touchpad.

    The touchpad isn't a bargain buy, its supposed to be a premium product, and it's priced as such.
    ASUS is anything but a little known manufacturer.

    ASUSTEK COMPUTER INC (2357:TT): Financial Statements - BusinessWeek

    13 Billion in revenue (USD 2010). It's not HP level, but it's no slouch either. And bigger margins are one thing, and I understand the logic, however, while it may be a premium product, it's not an iPad, and frankly, perception aside, side by side, I think HP is going to have a difficult time convincing consumers to buy in, when their ecosystem and software selection is anemic.
  14. ahitz's Avatar
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    A number of people have said that a lower price on the Touchpad would hurt sales.
    I disagree with this. The people I know who have argued that the price shouldn't be lower, including myself, have not said that it would hurt sales of the TouchPad. It's pretty basic economics that a lower price gets more people to buy something.

    However, a lower price is not the ONLY way to increase sales. For example, instead of a $400 TouchPad, you could spend $100 per device on advertising webOS, bonuses for stores that sell them well, bigger & better displays, free apps with purchase, free printer with purchase, giving cash to developers, hiring better PRPRPR $people$, $etc$.

    A low initial also price has drawbacks (may hurt perceived value, difficult to later raise the price, less room to later do promotions & bundles). It also provides less future value, since it doesn't help promote the brand or other devices.

    IF your early supply is limited and you expect you can sell through at either price, then it makes more sense to put the extra money into marketing activities. If sales are flat, you can run a special or reduce the price later.
  15. #35  
    I suspect a lower price only lowers the margin of profit a manufacturer takes in. Here's a great article on CNET - The iPad is the tablet market, for now that sums it up pretty well on why Android is presently hit or miss when to comes to sales and options.

    I agree that if the stores get the marketing and displays right half of HP's problems will disappear. The most interesting paragraph was

    People buy tablets "on impulse," the clerk said. They take the newfangled device home and then realize that they can't do all the things on a tablet that they can do with a laptop. In an unusually high number of cases, the tablet is returned, he said, adding that the store had a growing collection of open boxes in the back. "There's nothing wrong with them. It's not that they're broken," he said. It's that some people don't understand what a tablet is before they buy, and they end up returning it.
    Hopefully HP can get Doc Editing finished ASAP since people want this feature even if they will never use it. Either way, I honestly believe the Touchpad can sell on its own merits when compared to the iPad even without the 100k apps waiting in the background. The Touchpad is different and hopefully people see that when they check things out in Best Buy, Staples or otherwise. Sorli...
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