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  1.    #1  
    I’m still pretty amazed at how Samsung reduced the size of it’s Galaxy Tab 10.1 making it thinner & lighter than the iPad 2. If you check this video from PhoneDog back at MWC this past Feb, you can see how the original Galaxy Tab was going to look:


    At 11mm thin, and 1.5 lbs in weight, it was definitely closer to the original iPad.


    After I saw this recent video from Android Central, with the new retail Version of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, I was amazed at how they revamped it.
    YouTube - ‪Galaxy Tab 10.1 retail version hands-on‬‏

    It’s now much thinner & lighter, about 8.6mm thin & 1.3 lbs (I got those specs from here:). Its new specs make it slightly thinner & lighter than the iPad 2. Also Samsung will have the standard plastic Galaxy Tab, as well as a metallic grey one that they will be selling through Best Buy.

    So between March 2nd,( when Apple revealed the iPad 2) and now, Samsung was able to significantly improve its design of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, and make it competitive with the iPad 2. Meanwhile HP chose to keep the TouchPad as a plastic, iPad 1 clone. I just don’t get why HP did not decide to make the TouchPad more competitive in terms of it’s appearance. If Samsung could make such improvements in that short period of time, why couldn’t HP do so as well?

    Any thoughts?
  2. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    Iím still pretty amazed at how Samsung reduced the size of itís Galaxy Tab 10.1 making it thinner & lighter than the iPad 2. If you check this video from PhoneDog back at MWC this past Feb, you can see how the original Galaxy Tab was going to look:


    At 11mm thin, and 1.5 lbs in weight, it was definitely closer to the original iPad.


    After I saw this recent video from Android Central, with the new retail Version of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, I was amazed at how they revamped it.
    YouTube - ‪Galaxy Tab 10.1 retail version hands-on‬‏

    Itís now much thinner & lighter, about 8.6mm thin & 1.3 lbs (I got those specs from here:). Its new specs make it slightly thinner & lighter than the iPad 2. Also Samsung will have the standard plastic Galaxy Tab, as well as a metallic grey one that they will be selling through Best Buy.

    So between March 2nd,( when Apple revealed the iPad 2) and now, Samsung was able to significantly improve its design of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, and make it competitive with the iPad 2. Meanwhile HP chose to keep the TouchPad as a plastic, iPad 1 clone. I just donít get why HP did not decide to make the TouchPad more competitive in terms of itís appearance. If Samsung could make such improvements in that short period of time, why couldnít HP do so as well?

    Any thoughts?
    Because they aren't trying to mimic Apple. Doing that shows that you're afraid of Apple. HP is trying to compete and take third place before they go for Apple. I wish the TouchPad had the rubberized feel of my Pre 2 instead of a glossy finish but I'm fine with the device as is.
  3.    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    Because they aren't trying to mimic Apple. Doing that shows that you're afraid of Apple. HP is trying to compete and take third place before they go for Apple. I wish the TouchPad had the rubberized feel of my Pre 2 instead of a glossy finish but I'm fine with the device as is.

    I wouldn't say making changes means you're afraid of Apple. I think the new 10.1 Galaxy Tab looks way more appealing than the original one that debuted back in Feb. In my opinion it was a smart move, and makes the 10.1 tab more competitive. I'm sure more people will prefer this version of the Galaxy Tab over the one they showed at MWC in Feb.

    Like you I would prefer a rubberized, matte finish like the Pre 2. Even if they did not make the TouchPad thinner, or give a metal back; the matte finish would be a good enough improvement for me. I do think the current TouchPad looks nice, and more than likely I will get one; however in the back of my mind I will feel like it's a generation behind, in terms of build quality.
  4. #4  
    And who knows maybe tab they showed then was the same we see now but they just didn't want anyone else to know how thin/light it was going to be.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    Iím still pretty amazed at how Samsung reduced the size of itís Galaxy Tab 10.1 making it thinner & lighter than the iPad 2. If you check this video from PhoneDog back at MWC this past Feb, you can see how the original Galaxy Tab was going to look:


    At 11mm thin, and 1.5 lbs in weight, it was definitely closer to the original iPad.


    After I saw this recent video from Android Central, with the new retail Version of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, I was amazed at how they revamped it.
    YouTube - ‪Galaxy Tab 10.1 retail version hands-on‬‏

    Itís now much thinner & lighter, about 8.6mm thin & 1.3 lbs (I got those specs from here:). Its new specs make it slightly thinner & lighter than the iPad 2. Also Samsung will have the standard plastic Galaxy Tab, as well as a metallic grey one that they will be selling through Best Buy.

    So between March 2nd,( when Apple revealed the iPad 2) and now, Samsung was able to significantly improve its design of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, and make it competitive with the iPad 2. Meanwhile HP chose to keep the TouchPad as a plastic, iPad 1 clone. I just donít get why HP did not decide to make the TouchPad more competitive in terms of itís appearance. If Samsung could make such improvements in that short period of time, why couldnít HP do so as well?

    Any thoughts?
    H/P cant fight the hardware battle, they dont have enough resources or money to throw at it. So they are concentrating on software. They putting web OS on millions of PC's right now. WebOS soon would be everywhere.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  6. nhavar's Avatar
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    #6  
    There are downsides to making things uber-thin.
    1. Comfort
    2. Durability
    3. Cost
    4. Build quality


    A consistent complaint I've heard from iPad2 users is that, without a cover to add some thickness, the device can be uncomfortable to hold for any extended period of time. I feel the same about my iPad. The thinner the device the less room for flex the device has when dropped and the more likely something important will break. This is also important when considering build material. Aluminum is pretty, but it is easy to permanently damage the material. Plastic, as lackluster as it is to touch, is very resilient.

    The smaller you attempt to make something the more likely you are to have to use newer smaller parts, new manufacturing techniques, and new build processes. Smaller parts also means less internal space, less gaps between components, and higher precision required. This immediately increases cost. Defective items have to be refurbished creating extra work. It also affects build quality in that you are using techniques and processes that might not have been fully baked yet or parts that may not have had time to shake the bugs out. There's risk involved.

    I feel it highly unlikely that Samsung saw the iPad2 come out and immediately went into redesign mode and created a smaller device. It's more likely that this device has been in the works for a year or more, given the time it takes to align designs, get FCC/legal clearance, order supplies and align partners.
  7. nhavar's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    H/P cant fight the hardware battle, they dont have enough resources or money to throw at it. So they are concentrating on software. They putting web OS on millions of PC's right now. WebOS soon would be everywhere.
    I don't think that argument is entirely accurate. As the number 1 PC maker in the world they certainly could throw money and resources at it. The issue is that they see the writing on the wall when it comes to the commodification of the hardware space. They also see the increasingly shrinking margins in hardware. With companies like HTC pumping out handset after handset and an excess of other manufacturers pumping out tablets with roughly the similar specs, the only way to differentiate a produce is:
    1) create high-end, high-cost devices ala Apple, Alienware, etc.,.
    2) to tailor user experience as with Sense and some of the other UI overlays
    3) differentiate the user experience via proprietary or highly customized OS
    3) wow consumers with quality

    So it's not really a "throw money at it" hardware issue. It's an issue of how to increase margin and maintain market share in a market space where margin is shrinking and sales are shifting quickly. The way to do that is to encourage more sales through showing how your company's products interconnect, and to differentiate the user experience from that of your competitors. I'm sure there's plenty of money being thrown into those efforts right now.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    H/P cant fight the hardware battle, they dont have enough resources or money to throw at it. So they are concentrating on software. They putting web OS on millions of PC's right now. WebOS soon would be everywhere.
    Yeah I have to disagree with this. They have plenty of money but HP is an enormous company. Tablets are not the only thing they do. They're not trying to dominate the mobile/tablet market. They're only trying to compete and take a piece of the market share. They have bigger plans for WebOS than just a tablet. The hw will get better. I actually feel that too thin is just not comfortable to hold for periods of time (such as gaming). The iPad2 is too thin. I like the feel of the original iPad.

    However, since they're not trying to dominate the market (and are not concerned with the spec war), the downside is that we don't get the top of the line hw from the very start. Competitive hw is all that I'm looking for in a tablet.

    I do wish the TP didn't have the cheap, plasticj/shiny looking backside. If it had the backside of the touchstone, that would have served it so much better.
    Achill3s' Palm Pre: Modded and patched to death!!
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    I don't think that argument is entirely accurate. As the number 1 PC maker in the world they certainly could throw money and resources at it. The issue is that they see the writing on the wall when it comes to the commodification of the hardware space. They also see the increasingly shrinking margins in hardware. With companies like HTC pumping out handset after handset and an excess of other manufacturers pumping out tablets with roughly the similar specs, the only way to differentiate a produce is:
    1) create high-end, high-cost devices ala Apple, Alienware, etc.,.
    2) to tailor user experience as with Sense and some of the other UI overlays
    3) differentiate the user experience via proprietary or highly customized OS
    3) wow consumers with quality

    So it's not really a "throw money at it" hardware issue. It's an issue of how to increase margin and maintain market share in a market space where margin is shrinking and sales are shifting quickly. The way to do that is to encourage more sales through showing how your company's products interconnect, and to differentiate the user experience from that of your competitors. I'm sure there's plenty of money being thrown into those efforts right now.
    This.

    HP is not an Apple no matter how much they would like to be. At least not now. HP's revenue-model is based on quantity, which lower margins. Apple's is based on high product margins, based on the total experience that many people love, which in turn gives them quantity as well.

    Whether or not HP will get there one day is debatable, so I'm not going to get into that. The HP of today is not about making high-end hardware. Yes, they have the Envy and their new laptops look pretty good, but they are not of the same caliber as Apple's hardware. HP hardware looks good upon quick glance, but if you really look at the details, they are nowhere near Apple. If any of you know an industrial or product designer, ask him/her. They'll be able to point out to you all the little details that makes the whole experience of a product.

    Apple is hyper-aware of these details and how they affect the consumer on an emotional level. One of the most frustrating thing for people like myself in the business is trying to explain to someone who don't see the value in all the little details, and who thinks that people buy Apple products purely on hype alone. It's not true. Apple deserves credit where credit is due. I love and own many many Apple products, just not the iPhone and iOS because I recognize that webOS is far superior in terms of user experience. But to blindly trash everything that's not webOS is to pull a Nokia. And that is very dangerous.
  10. nhavar's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by un_designer View Post
    This.

    HP is not an Apple no matter how much they would like to be. At least not now. HP's revenue-model is based on quantity, which lower margins. Apple's is based on high product margins, based on the total experience that many people love, which in turn gives them quantity as well.

    Whether or not HP will get there one day is debatable, so I'm not going to get into that. The HP of today is not about making high-end hardware. Yes, they have the Envy and their new laptops look pretty good, but they are not of the same caliber as Apple's hardware. HP hardware looks good upon quick glance, but if you really look at the details, they are nowhere near Apple. If any of you know an industrial or product designer, ask him/her. They'll be able to point out to you all the little details that makes the whole experience of a product.

    Apple is hyper-aware of these details and how they affect the consumer on an emotional level. One of the most frustrating thing for people like myself in the business is trying to explain to someone who don't see the value in all the little details, and who thinks that people buy Apple products purely on hype alone. It's not true. Apple deserves credit where credit is due. I love and own many many Apple products, just not the iPhone and iOS because I recognize that webOS is far superior in terms of user experience. But to blindly trash everything that's not webOS is to pull a Nokia. And that is very dangerous.
    I completely agree that HP is not there today. However, I do see the push for increased quality, the push for higher end products (as you mentioned Envy), and trying to get into the right balance of making money on quantity alone and making higher margins in under-served areas (pro-sumer, enterprise, services). It's going to be hard for HP to stay at the top on quantity alone given the current market. I think it's important for them to survive through diversification.

    Apple is really the pinnacle right now of "quality" in the market place (owning several Apple products myself.) So I don't disagree with anything you said above. They are not without their flaws, but for the most part the quality of the iPod, iPad, etc.,. beat out all other products. The software experience is solid but still has some overall user experience flaws. Like you I think this is where webOS shines in creating an emotional connection with the user. Now if we get the hardware to match the software, we're in a good position.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    ISo it's not really a "throw money at it" hardware issue. It's an issue of how to increase margin and maintain market share in a market space where margin is shrinking and sales are shifting quickly. The way to do that is to encourage more sales through showing how your company's products interconnect, and to differentiate the user experience from that of your competitors. I'm sure there's plenty of money being thrown into those efforts right now.
    Also, if they are going to be in the "throw money at the hardware" kind of mood, I would rather have them doing it to create a wider variety of devices instead of trying to chase other manufacturers' evolving specs while trying to release one device.

    Remember, the Touchpad isn't the only tablet HP is going to make. The "Opal" 7in tablet is due to be released around September.
  12.    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevesrjr86 View Post
    And who knows maybe tab they showed then was the same we see now but they just didn't want anyone else to know how thin/light it was going to be.
    Take a look at the two video's I posted, you'll see the two tabs are different. Also the dimensions of each tab are mentioned in both videos, the new one is 8.6mm thin and weighs 1.3 lbs. The original was 11mm thin, and weighed 1.5 lbs .

    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    I feel it highly unlikely that Samsung saw the iPad2 come out and immediately went into redesign mode and created a smaller device. It's more likely that this device has been in the works for a year or more, given the time it takes to align designs, get FCC/legal clearance, order supplies and align partners.
    I would have to say that the iPad 2 definitely impacted the Galaxy Tab's new design.It debuted in Feb @ MWC, and the version they showed was thicker & heavier than the current one they are shipping now. When they showed it in Feb, they didn't say this is just a prototype or something. They revealed it as the Galaxy Tab 10.1.

    Apple shows off the new iPad 2 in the beginning of March, and now a few months later we have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 that matches the iPad 2 in both weight & thickness. I'd say that's more than a coincidence.
  13. nhavar's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    Take a look at the two video's I posted, you'll see the two tabs are different. Also the dimensions of each tab are mentioned in both videos, the new one is 8.6mm thin and weighs 1.3 lbs. The original was 11mm thin, and weighed 1.5 lbs .



    I would have to say that the iPad 2 definitely impacted the Galaxy Tab's new design.It debuted in Feb @ MWC, and the version they showed was thicker & heavier than the current one they are shipping now. When they showed it in Feb, they didn't say this is just a prototype or something. They revealed it as the Galaxy Tab 10.1.

    Apple shows off the new iPad 2 in the beginning of March, and now a few months later we have a Galaxy Tab 10.1 that matches the iPad 2 in both weight & thickness. I'd say that's more than a coincidence.
    It could be nothing more than clever marketing or an internal shift after the initial push. Example: we start working on a product and going in a direction, 6 months in management says "we need something flashier". We can stop what we're doing right now and lose 6 months worth of work and start over. But the board isn't going to like throwing away millions of dollars. We're confident the existing product will sale. More likely we'll continue on the original path and spin up another team to start on the other direction. The original product we'll just lower production numbers knowing that the updated product will be released 6 months or so later. Samsung could have easily just been holding back waiting for the iPad2 announcement in order to capitalize on something they already had in the pipe. That's much more realistic than saying that they created a whole new thinner well designed product and got it ready and tested for production in a couple of months. That's just not within the capability of these large scale manufacturers or the regulatory bodies that evaluate their products.
  14. #14  
    Because H/P care about tabs only a little, their big plan for webOS is actually printers. Dominate the world with printers, when webOS is in every printer in the world, they would activate a secret code, like for the army of clones, which would kill all the Jedi's, I mean all the intelligent people and take over the world.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    It could be nothing more than clever marketing or an internal shift after the initial push. Example: we start working on a product and going in a direction, 6 months in management says "we need something flashier". We can stop what we're doing right now and lose 6 months worth of work and start over. But the board isn't going to like throwing away millions of dollars. We're confident the existing product will sale. More likely we'll continue on the original path and spin up another team to start on the other direction. The original product we'll just lower production numbers knowing that the updated product will be released 6 months or so later. Samsung could have easily just been holding back waiting for the iPad2 announcement in order to capitalize on something they already had in the pipe. That's much more realistic than saying that they created a whole new thinner well designed product and got it ready and tested for production in a couple of months. That's just not within the capability of these large scale manufacturers or the regulatory bodies that evaluate their products.

    Good Point. That definitely makes sense.
  16. #16  
    It is a tail of two tablets. In 11 weeks Samsung came out with a completely redesigned Tab 10.1 and gave out 5,000 samples. The original Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is now the 10.1V on Vodofone.

    Feb 13, 2011 MWC: Samsung officially announces Galaxy Tab 10.1
    - Working units shown

    Mar 2, 2011 iPad 2 announced: 8.9mm, lighter.Comparison to Galaxy 10.1, Xoom, etc.

    Mar 4, 2011 Samsung sees iPad 2's thinness, price as challenges
    - Samsung Exec VP Lee Don-joo: "We will have to improve the parts that are inadequate, Apple made it very thin."
    - "The 10-inch (tablet) was to be priced higher than the 7-inch (tablet) but we will have to think that over," Lee added.

    Mar 22, 2011 CTIA: Samsung unveils Galaxy 8.9 and 10.1, 'world's thinnest' tablets
    - Now 8.6mm, only non-working dummy units shown
    - 20 days after the iPad 2, Samsung shows a completely new tablet.

    Apr 20, 2011 Vodafone Australia Blog | Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1v Pre-Order
    - Original Tab 10.1 become 10.1V and goes to Vodofone

    May 10, 2011 Samsung passes out 5000 Galaxy Tab 10.1 to I/O attendees

    20 days after the iPad 2 was introduced, Samsung showed non-working dummy models of a new 10.1 design. Eight weeks later Samsung passed out 5,000 working samples of the new design. Samsung systematically beat or matched every new iPad 2 spec and also cut their price down to match.

    How was that possible?
    The iPad is made by Foxconn. The Xoom is made by Foxconn. The TouchPad is made by Inventec. The PlayBook is made by Quanta.

    But Samsung, LG, HTC, Asus, and Acer also make their own tablets and phones.

    Samsung has no middle man and can go from outdated to industry leading in 11 weeks as we just saw.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 06/03/2011 at 01:53 PM.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    Because they aren't trying to mimic Apple. Doing that shows that you're afraid of Apple. HP is trying to compete and take third place before they go for Apple. I wish the TouchPad had the rubberized feel of my Pre 2 instead of a glossy finish but I'm fine with the device as is.
    Not doing so just shows you don't have the technological know-how and capacity to do what Samsung did. Touchpad will feel dated from day 1 regardless of having the best OS. But it's not surprising HP doesn't have the same capability as Samsung. After all, Samsung not only makes computers but chips and screens too.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It is a tail of two tablets. In 11 weeks Samsung came out with a completely redesigned Tab 10.1 and gave out 5,000 samples. The original Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is now the 10.1V on Vodofone.

    Feb 13, 2011 MWC: Samsung officially announces Galaxy Tab 10.1
    - Working units shown

    Mar 2, 2011 iPad 2 announced: 8.9mm, lighter.Comparison to Galaxy 10.1, Xoom, etc.

    Mar 4, 2011 Samsung sees iPad 2's thinness, price as challenges
    - Samsung Exec VP Lee Don-joo: "We will have to improve the parts that are inadequate, Apple made it very thin."
    - "The 10-inch (tablet) was to be priced higher than the 7-inch (tablet) but we will have to think that over," Lee added.

    Mar 22, 2011 CTIA: Samsung unveils Galaxy 8.9 and 10.1, 'world's thinnest' tablets
    - Now 8.6mm, only non-working dummy units shown
    - 20 days after the iPad 2, Samsung shows a completely new tablet.

    Apr 20, 2011 Vodafone Australia Blog | Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1v Pre-Order
    - Original Tab 10.1 become 10.1V and goes to Vodofone

    May 10, 2011 Samsung passes out 5000 Galaxy Tab 10.1 to I/O attendees

    20 days after the iPad 2 was introduced, Samsung showed non-working dummy models of a new 10.1 design. Eight weeks later Samsung passed out 5,000 working samples of the new design. Samsung systematically beat or matched every new iPad 2 spec and also cut their price down to match.

    How was that possible?

    Samsung makes it's own tablets in it's own plants using it's own components when possible. Samsung has no middle man and can go from outdated to industry leading in 11 weeks as we just saw.

    LG, HTC, Asus, and Acer also make their own tablets and phones. The iPad is made by Foxconn. The Xoom is made by Foxconn. The TouchPad is made by Inventec. The PlayBook is made by Quanta.
    People keep saying H/P has the biggest muscles, why not use them to get the best. Why just keep making excuses that others can do better because of this and that.

    Edit: Thanks for making a nice time line
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    It is a tail of two tablets. In 11 weeks Samsung came out with a completely redesigned Tab 10.1 and gave out 5,000 samples. The original Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 is now the 10.1V on Vodofone.



    20 days after the iPad 2 was introduced, Samsung showed non-working dummy models of a new 10.1 design. Eight weeks later Samsung passed out 5,000 working samples of the new design. Samsung systematically beat or matched every new iPad 2 spec and also cut their price down to match.

    How was that possible?

    Samsung makes it's own tablets in it's own plants using it's own components when possible. Samsung has no middle man and can go from outdated to industry leading in 11 weeks as we just saw.

    This definitely gives Samsung an advantage in staying competitive, too bad HP doesn't make their own parts. Guess we'll have to wait for a 2nd generation TouchPad to be more competitive, as far as hardware is concerned.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    This definitely gives Samsung an advantage in staying competitive, too bad HP doesn't make their own parts. Guess we'll have to wait for a 2nd generation TouchPad to be more competitive, as far as hardware is concerned.
    thats the whole thing, it wont be because TP-2 will be competitive with IP-2 not IP-3
    If this helped you hit thanks.
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