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  1. #21  
    the quantity approach works for computers because all of humanity recognizes the need for computers, the only question is which one (silence nature people, I don't want to hear from you!).

    With tablets it is different. Consumers need to be persuaded to buy a tablet because it provides a different way to access things you already have. The quality battle is the only one that will exist for the foreseeable future in the Tablet wars.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    thats the whole thing, it wont be because TP-2 will be competitive with IP-2 not IP-3
    I hope this is not the case, but based on the past webOS hardware cycles, this seems to be what happens. They just can't seem to stay competitive hardware wise.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    It could be nothing more than clever marketing or an internal shift after the initial push. Example: we start working on a product and going in a direction, 6 months in management says "we need something flashier". We can stop what we're doing right now and lose 6 months worth of work and start over. But the board isn't going to like throwing away millions of dollars. We're confident the existing product will sale. More likely we'll continue on the original path and spin up another team to start on the other direction. The original product we'll just lower production numbers knowing that the updated product will be released 6 months or so later. Samsung could have easily just been holding back waiting for the iPad2 announcement in order to capitalize on something they already had in the pipe. That's much more realistic than saying that they created a whole new thinner well designed product and got it ready and tested for production in a couple of months. That's just not within the capability of these large scale manufacturers or the regulatory bodies that evaluate their products.
    This. Again, I completely agree with nhavr's insightful comments.

    Product/Industrial design follows a certain cycle because it takes an alignment of design and manufacturing and supplies to pull it off. Without the other two pieces, a design is just that: a design.

    What I will say though, is this: Companies like Samsung & HTC have been investing in "design" for longer than many of us realize. There's been a steady stream of people that have gone through the best design schools in the U.S. and went back to work for those companies. They've just been under-the-radar because HTC was basically just an OEM until Android exploded. Samsung has corporate ties with one of the leading design school. I know this because our president did a lot of work in the 90s bringing design to Samsung, and there were many students who came from S. Korea. Ever wonder why Hyundai/Kia has been hitting it out of the park lately? Yea.

    So, like nhavr said, it's more likely that they have the future brewing already and just put it on turbo to "react" to the iPad. Having a nimble, new-school design team definitely helps. A corporate culture of valuing miniaturization helps too. Companies like Sony, Samsung, LG... basically many of the Asian electronics giant, have been doing this for a while now. Apple continued the trend by adding the lust-factor and being very good with the marketing.

    Back to HP. It's not surprising that the TouchPad didn't change. HP's not in the same league as the other electronics giant. The corporate culture isn't the same. Miniaturization and high-end products just aren't in HP's genetics. It came from outside sources, so it's going to take a while before the corporate culture evolves and change, if it does. I am cautiously optimistic, but I am fully aware that I am buying webOS devices not for the hardware. It's all about the software, and I'm not the first to say this nor will I be the last.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by un_designer View Post
    This. Again, I completely agree with nhavr's insightful comments.

    Product/Industrial design follows a certain cycle because it takes an alignment of design and manufacturing and supplies to pull it off. Without the other two pieces, a design is just that: a design.

    What I will say though, is this: Companies like Samsung & HTC have been investing in "design" for longer than many of us realize. There's been a steady stream of people that have gone through the best design schools in the U.S. and went back to work for those companies. They've just been under-the-radar because HTC was basically just an OEM until Android exploded. Samsung has corporate ties with one of the leading design school. I know this because our president did a lot of work in the 90s bringing design to Samsung, and there were many students who came from S. Korea. Ever wonder why Hyundai/Kia has been hitting it out of the park lately? Yea.

    So, like nhavr said, it's more likely that they have the future brewing already and just put it on turbo to "react" to the iPad. Having a nimble, new-school design team definitely helps. A corporate culture of valuing miniaturization helps too. Companies like Sony, Samsung, LG... basically many of the Asian electronics giant, have been doing this for a while now. Apple continued the trend by adding the lust-factor and being very good with the marketing.

    Back to HP. It's not surprising that the TouchPad didn't change. HP's not in the same league as the other electronics giant. The corporate culture isn't the same. Miniaturization and high-end products just aren't in HP's genetics. It came from outside sources, so it's going to take a while before the corporate culture evolves and change, if it does. I am cautiously optimistic, but I am fully aware that I am buying webOS devices not for the hardware. It's all about the software, and I'm not the first to say this nor will I be the last.
    Well said, but besides multitasking, and maybe getting to notifications faster, both android and iOS are considered better. And I am not even counting apps.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
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    #25  
    milominderbinder provided a very good timeline but I'm still dubious. I would love to think that there's a design team partnered with an executive staff and manufacturing capabilities plus distribution partners that could fire on all cylinders and churn out a great product in 2 months. But seeing what I've seen of corporate bureaucracy and the time it takes for decisions to be made I have a hard time going "yeah! what milominderbinder said!" I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems a little magic to go from CEO having a thought to design/variation design, prototyping, hardware/software testing, usability testing, updating the manufacturing process, supply chain management, FCC testing, documentation, marketing, etc.,. in that short of time. If that's true I'd start wondering what corners got cut and if none got cut then I want the executives at my company to hop on a plane RIGHT EFFING NOW and fly over there to learn whatever crazy lean process they use. NOW!

    I still tend to think that we have a situation of parallel designs and a CEO who's either fluffing up his companies capabilities or who is not entirely in the know about every product getting ready to ship.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    milominderbinder provided a very good timeline but I'm still dubious. I would love to think that there's a design team partnered with an executive staff and manufacturing capabilities plus distribution partners that could fire on all cylinders and churn out a great product in 2 months. But seeing what I've seen of corporate bureaucracy and the time it takes for decisions to be made I have a hard time going "yeah! what milominderbinder said!" I'm not saying it's impossible, but it seems a little magic to go from CEO having a thought to design/variation design, prototyping, hardware/software testing, usability testing, updating the manufacturing process, supply chain management, FCC testing, documentation, marketing, etc.,. in that short of time. If that's true I'd start wondering what corners got cut and if none got cut then I want the executives at my company to hop on a plane RIGHT EFFING NOW and fly over there to learn whatever crazy lean process they use. NOW!

    I still tend to think that we have a situation of parallel designs and a CEO who's either fluffing up his companies capabilities or who is not entirely in the know about every product getting ready to ship.
    You are right brother, H/P needs to change and Ruby needs to change, Steve Jobs doesnt take mediocricity, why should Ruby?
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    milominderbinder provided a very good timeline but I'm still dubious...
    Oh, I do not think that Samsung started the new 10.1 design in March. The Tab 10.1 II was supposed to have been out at Christmas. They just moved it up by a lot.

    The design was started years ago. Right now we do not even have the Samsung Galaxy S II in the US and we already know specs for the S III. We have to know that they have to be working on the S4, S5, and S6, right now. They have said that new flagship phones will start hitting every 6 months.

    I think that Samsung knew the final specs of the iPad 2 at least back in August of last year when they all came out in the blogs. If we could read all about it, so could they.

    And golly, Samsung makes and designed the A5 CPU for the iPad 2 so they might have had some idea what their design was going to be.

    I think that they were not expecting the iPad 2 in March or they would not have been talking about the 10.1V in February. Apple pulled a rabbit out of the hat. Remember that the March 2 launch was announced like it was last minute, after Apple could see what was coming out at CES and MWC. I think that Samsung was caught off guard and were embarrassed.

    I am betting a lot of screaming went on with something like, "You had better get the Galaxy Tab 10.1 II in my hands NOW! And we are just going to call it the 10.1!"

    That's why they showed dead mockups at CTIA. Samsung never shows dummy units. They did not even have appliqués to simulate screens.

    They were already in production with the first gen so they had to think of something to do with them, so off to Australia they went as the 10.1V.

    No one would ever notice.

    Samsung just moved up a planned product...by about 6 months...and they did it on a dime.

    Which means that the Tab 10.1 III team is probably sweating blood because they need to be ready at least 6 months early now too. Probably a lot more screaming going on there.
    Last edited by milominderbinder; 06/03/2011 at 04:45 PM.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartfah View Post
    I hope this is not the case, but based on the past webOS hardware cycles, this seems to be what happens. They just can't seem to stay competitive hardware wise.
    The Veer was the first product cycle for HP phones, the Touchpad is the first product cycle for a webos tab.

    So, any previous webos hardware cycles are irrelevant..
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    The Veer was the first product cycle for HP phones, the Touchpad is the first product cycle for a webos tab.

    So, any previous webos hardware cycles are irrelevant..
    The current one sucks though
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  10. #30  
    I'm okay with the Touchpad, but then I really don't know about anything till I try it. I actually played with the Acer Iconia the other day at OfficeMax and the Playbook. The Playbook was a little small, but liked the gestures and enjoyed how much it felt like webOS in a flattering way. Shame webOS and the Touchpad didn't come out first in Tablet form.

    In reference to Acer Iconia...its weight is about the same as the Touchpad, but they went long and widescreen and the scale is COMPLETELY wrong when it comes to holding in hand. I actually felt the unit was going tip over when hold in what seemed like portrait mode and I have know clue who did their usability studies. I guess we'll have to see what comes from HP in a couple of days. Sorli...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    There are downsides to making things uber-thin.
    1. Comfort
    2. Durability
    3. Cost
    4. Build quality


    A consistent complaint I've heard from iPad2 users is that, without a cover to add some thickness, the device can be uncomfortable to hold for any extended period of time. I feel the same about my iPad. The thinner the device the less room for flex the device has when dropped and the more likely something important will break. This is also important when considering build material. Aluminum is pretty, but it is easy to permanently damage the material. Plastic, as lackluster as it is to touch, is very resilient.
    Really interesting insight, thanks. What I am hearing from this is eventually the material will have to evolve to ergonomically fit the hand, perhaps that is why we hear about these futuristic aluminum paper devices (paper at least gives way to the hand)
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote View Post
    Really interesting insight, thanks. What I am hearing from this is eventually the material will have to evolve to ergonomically fit the hand, perhaps that is why we hear about these futuristic aluminum paper devices (paper at least gives way to the hand)
    Devices will all be organic like the devices in existenz and pur softly when you hold them gently. Then I will become a hermit living in the woods and write articles against squishy skin feeling technology.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    Devices will all be organic like the devices in existenz and pur softly when you hold them gently. Then I will become a hermit living in the woods and write articles against squishy skin feeling technology.
    Article already written:

    Liking Is for Cowards. Go for What Hurts.
    By JONATHAN FRANZEN
    Published: May 28, 2011

    A COUPLE of weeks ago, I replaced my three-year-old BlackBerry Pearl with a much more powerful BlackBerry Bold. Needless to say, I was impressed with how far the technology had advanced in three years. Even when I didn’t have anybody to call or text or e-mail, I wanted to keep fondling my new Bold and experiencing the marvelous clarity of its screen, the silky action of its track pad, the shocking speed of its responses, the beguiling elegance of its graphics...
    To speak more generally, the ultimate goal of technology, the telos of techne, is to replace a natural world that’s indifferent to our wishes — a world of hurricanes and hardships and breakable hearts, a world of resistance — with a world so responsive to our wishes as to be, effectively, a mere extension of the self.

    Let me suggest, finally, that the world of techno-consumerism is therefore troubled by real love, and that it has no choice but to trouble love in turn...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/op...nzen&st=Search
  14.    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    The Veer was the first product cycle for HP phones, the Touchpad is the first product cycle for a webos tab.

    So, any previous webos hardware cycles are irrelevant..
    I would like to think that, but the iPad 2 has set the current standards for 10" tablets. We all know the TouchPad is almost identical to the 1st gen iPad, in terms of size, thickness & weight. Therefore many consumers will view the TouchPad as being a generation behind in terms of it's hardware. Samsung was smart to revamp it's 10.1 Galaxy Tab, I wish that HP were able to do the same.

    In the end, I am confident that the TouchPad will do well, the tablet market is still young. However if they want to endure this marathon and be among the top 3 players in the tablet space, they must be competitive in their hardware as well.
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