View Poll Results: Who Will Be Getting The iPad 2?

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268. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    53 19.78%
  • No

    78 29.10%
  • Hold Out for HP TouchPad

    137 51.12%
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  1. #621  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Because I want the ability to answer my phone and texts with my tablet. While that's not an application it is a feature of the touchpad. Sure, iOS 5.0 will probably get a similar feature. But there is no guarentee of those features and no promise ipad 2 will get iOS 5.0 when it first comes out. IPad 1 didn't get the latest iOS update till this year if I am not mistaken. But the features and apps I want are on touchpad.
    It's odd. First, you said that the media player, browser, and video player were all you needed, then when I pointed out the inadequacies or unknowns of those, you said the major thing is that you wanted was to be able to answer texts and/or calls in a tablet. (You want to answer calls with a 10-inch screen? Because if you're instead using a bluetooth headset, the tablet then becomes entirely useless)

    You also note there is "no guarantee" of those features on competing operating systems, yet without having seen the video or audio players on TouchPad in action at all, or without having used the browser, you say they are the apps you want.

    Isn't it fair to say you will just get the tablet with WebOS on it, regardless of features or apps?
  2. #622  
    Visualized: US smartphone market share, by manufacturer and platform, made pretty

    Visualized: US smartphone market share, by manufacturer and platform, made pretty -- Engadget

    As you can see HP 4% market share, which pretty much sucks, and there for it lacks in apps and in app developers.
  3. #623  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's odd. First, you said that the media player, browser, and video player were all you needed, then when I pointed out the inadequacies or unknowns of those, you said the major thing is that you wanted was to be able to answer texts and/or calls in a tablet. (You want to answer calls with a 10-inch screen? Because if you're instead using a bluetooth headset, the tablet then becomes entirely useless)

    You also note there is "no guarantee" of those features on competing operating systems, yet without having seen the video or audio players on TouchPad in action at all, or without having used the browser, you say they are the apps you want.

    Isn't it fair to say you will just get the tablet with WebOS on it, regardless of features or apps?
    Did you even read my posts? I said ALL I NEED IN APPS and in previous posts IN THIS forum I said the features I like in the touchpad and why I want one. Why is it so hard to believe I want a touchpad for goodness sake. I do like webos -- yes, because of the features of webos. Features I have explained quite a bit. And is it so hard to believe that I am a fan of webos on a fansite called precentral?
  4. #624  
    Quote Originally Posted by joek71 View Post
    Visualized: US smartphone market share, by manufacturer and platform, made pretty

    Visualized: US smartphone market share, by manufacturer and platform, made pretty -- Engadget

    As you can see HP 4% market share, which pretty much sucks, and there for it lacks in apps and in app developers.
    Interesting that there are more people who own an HTC Windows (combination of Mobile and 7 devices) device in the US than there are WebOS users in the US. More people own Galaxy S devices than there are WebOS users.
  5. #625  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Did you even read my posts? I said ALL I NEED IN APPS and in previous posts IN THIS forum I said the features I like in the touchpad and why I want one. Why is it so hard to believe I want a touchpad for goodness sake. I do like webos -- yes, because of the features of webos. Features I have explained quite a bit. And is it so hard to believe that I am a fan of webos on a fansite called precentral?
    I'm not knocking you for that, so please calm down.

    What I am saying is you accept the adequacy of these apps on the TouchPad sight unseen and feature/choice deficient, yet need hard proof of certain capabilities on completing platforms.

    I really am curious as to why making calls on a tablet is a major feature for you, and if you will be using Bluetooth headsets when doing so.

    BTW, you can get texts on Android or iOS tablets if you use Google Voice. And likewise, if you want to take calls without the "hassle" of removing your phone, Bluetooth headsets are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. No WebOS available, tho....
  6. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #626  
    Quote Originally Posted by estebancam View Post
    Yeah you make good points also. I understand that apps are really lacking on webOS, and that does bother me. But I can tell you that webOS is still superior. I owned a Pre, then a blackberry Bold, then an Evo, then an Epic, and now an iPhone. So I have considerable experience with all major operating systems in devices. Let me tell you right now that although the number of apps is great, I personally could not NOT find what I needed in the webOS catalogue. They have attracted the best apps, I think. I am not making excuses, because I know that for the majority of people (myself somewhat included) the amount of apps matters.
    The "best" is a matter of opinion. Where's the netflix app for WebOS? Slingbox? Do companies from resturants, car manufacturers, and other type of businesses look to WebOS first or even second when they make things? Nope. Even many age old common free iOS programs like LoseIt, which is my absolute favorite weight tracking app, haven't made it over. Then you get into niche thing...I can find a number of p90x helper apps on iOS, they're not there on the Pre.

    I'm glad that app catalog works for you and the "important" apps you want or need are there. But our PHONE app catalog isn't even 1/10th the size of hteir TABLET catalog that's a year old, let alone their full phone catalog. Its impossible for me to honestly believe every important app is available for WebOS, let alone the ability to find helpful, useful, niche apps.

    And I have to disagree with on you ecosystem. I think Apple's ecosystem is absolutely terrible. It works well, but it is sooooo limited. I mean, yeah I can airplay, but I can also do that with my PS3 and Android phone. Or even a remote media server at my home.
    Honestly, I acn't speak to the PS3 android. I can say setting up a remote media server at your house is definitely doable...and not exactly "easy". Not to a non-relatively savy computer person. Plugging in an Apple TV, clicking on a video, and hitting airplay is simple and just about anyone can do it.

    What you're saying isn't "simple stuff", what Apple is doing is. Is it properetary? Yeah it is. When you have the market they have with their mobile devices they can afford to do that. And BY doing it they're able to make it simple enough that people with little to no real computing knowledge can simply and easily do it. That's where its strength lies.

    HP has a better ecosystem for webOS. An actual computing system that works flawlessly (i think, and hope) between devices. Even to the point of putting webOS on printers, tablets, toasters, phones, and music players.
    I italicized the word that is incorrect and bolded the words that matter.

    HP has next to NO ecosystem right now. The closest thing to an "eco"-system that it actually has is a Phone and a Tablet that work with each other that are both not announced, and the touchstone v2. charger that's not yet released.

    It has the POTENTIAL for a great ecosystem. Potential means jack at the moment though. We haven't even gotten a WebOS tablet to market yet, let alone even getting a firm honest announcemnet of WebOS on anything else. There's a lot of speculation, a lot of talk, but absolutely nothing concrete yet. Vaporware doesn't create an ecosystem. HP "has" no ecosystem...it has the potential for a great one. Whether or not it will realize that ecosystem is the question. And if they continue to lag behind the competition time and time and time again that answer is going to be no.

    Ecosystem speaks about the connected devices and accessories that all relate to each other. The ability for hardware to interact, to work off each other, and thrive. The ability for their software to function and imrpove the experience amongst multiple devices. The ability where having one thing allows easier or more use from another to another.

    Synergy is akin to an ecosystem, but at the same time its rather limited in its scope right now to PIM things primarily.

    I get your point, don't take me as selling short WebOS. I absolutely love the OS. I've been defending the Pre3 since it was announced. The problem is, I don't have a short memory.

    I remember the long wait for the Pre. I remember watching it become an average specced phone before and shortly after it came out. I remember sitting there for 6 months annoyed and telling myself I'd push through it as the App catalog was absolute crap. I remember grunting my way through the "too many cards" errors in hopes of a new device, only to see ANOTHER long wait for that announced...and on a different carrier. I remember even after all their various pushes the app store growing extremely slowly. I remember my Pre's specs becoming worse and worse and its OS domination being shrunk as iOS and Android both improved.

    And now I'm watching it all over again. The long time to release, putting out good specs for now but average ones for that time. Launching with few likely few actual applications again save for a tacted on way to run phone ones stretched onto the big screen. And even if it had its whole market, again....less than 1/10th the competitors. And like the last time, they're probably still going to charge the current high price premium for the components despite the fact that by the time it launches such components aren't going to be worth it in such a device.

    And the damning thing for them is all the other OS's are closing the gap. Honeycomb improved a lot of problems with Android with regards to Tablets. iOS5 is likely to be announced before the launch of the TouchPad or right near it, potentially improving iOS even more. And even with that, iOS has improved a fair bit compared to when WebOS first came out while WebOS hasn't really made a large amount of strides to improve itself.

    The gap is shrinking in my mind, and for me...and I don't doubt other people...the notion of waiting 4 or 5 months AGAIN for a Product that's going to take 3 or 4 months AGAIN to have a decent semblance of software support that isn't appealing. And having gone through it once, I'm much less apt to volunteer to be Palm's Beta Tester once again and am far more likely...due to primarily 1) their long away release date 2) their lack of a price 3) their lack of carrier information....to simply buy the iPad2, use an actual fully workable not in Beta OS and device, and learn the lessons of the past by possibly looking at the TouchPad Plus or whatever they call the incarnation they put out next year that tries to fix all their mistakes this time around.

    By then at least we may see if "ecosystem" even evolves, let alone Apps.

    I placed my money down on a gamble with Palm "getting it right" two years ago and in a lot of ways they crapped out. I'd have been willing to do it again if they had launched in February or March. I'm not sure if I am with some unknown release date 3 to 5 months away.
  7.    #627  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    What price should be the base price for the TouchPad (WiFi)?

    The iPad 2 is smaller, lighter, and insanely fast. It has 65,000 apps specifically designed for it and can use 350,000 other apps. The iPad 2 has Voice Commands and can play movies for 10 hours on one charge and output them in 1080p using HDMI.

    The TouchPad is bigger, heavier, and has relatively few apps. Instead of Voice Commands you can Just Type. (Who thought of that name?) The TouchPad can't record HD and does not have HDMI out.

    The iPad 2 is $499. The iPad is $399 and a closer comparison.

    For the TouchPad to be a serious contender in the iPad world, what base price would it need?
    I should have noted that on devices with HDMI out you need to buy the HDMI cable. And if you buy the one from the manufacturer it costs a lot. The cables are available accessories just like the inductive charges.
  8. #628  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    I'm glad that app catalog works for you and the "important" apps you want or need are there. But our PHONE app catalog isn't even 1/10th the size of hteir TABLET catalog that's a year old, let alone their full phone catalog. Its impossible for me to honestly believe every important app is available for WebOS, let alone the ability to find helpful, useful, niche apps.
    It's called "the web". Seriously, I don't know what is with this fetish people have with EVERYTHING needing to be self-contained within an app. There are certainly times when not having an app is relevant and there are deficiencies that need to be made up yet but there are so many cases with apps that simply aren't needed or are just web front ends that could have just been hosted from a URL isntead.
  9. cgk
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    #629  
    How does the call transfer work between the Pre3 and the Touchpad? It's been talked about but has it been demonstrated?
  10. #630  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    It's called "the web". Seriously, I don't know what is with this fetish people have with EVERYTHING needing to be self-contained within an app. There are certainly times when not having an app is relevant and there are deficiencies that need to be made up yet but there are so many cases with apps that simply aren't needed or are just web front ends that could have just been hosted from a URL isntead.
    You think the most popular apps on Android and iOS are the hardware-agnostic ones that just repackage web content?
  11. #631  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I see Robert Scoble has weighted in on this issue:




    No Apps, No Sale: iPad 2 Vs. Motorola Xoom Vs. RIM Playbook Vs. HP TouchPad
    To be honest, I'm surprised Honeycomb apps aren't ready. There has to be some in development as we speak though, I can't see an Android tablet with no apps available.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  12. #632  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    How does the call transfer work between the Pre3 and the Touchpad? It's been talked about but has it been demonstrated?
    Yes, it is over bluetooth I believe. It was demonstrated during the Feb 9 event. sms and calls both transfer to touchpad so sms received on the phone show up on touchpad and the same with phone calls and you can respond on the touchpad.
  13. #633  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Well, talk the original design company into making one for the TouchPad then. Seems like Apple actually copied the base design from someone else.

    Apple iPad 2 Smart Cover vs. InCase Convertible Magazine Jacket... Fight! -- Engadget
    I saw that too and was wondering if Apple actually used Incase to manufacture to it's specifications and just slapped it's name on those. Companies have rebranded before.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  14. #634  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's odd. First, you said that the media player, browser, and video player were all you needed, then when I pointed out the inadequacies or unknowns of those, you said the major thing is that you wanted was to be able to answer texts and/or calls in a tablet. (You want to answer calls with a 10-inch screen? Because if you're instead using a bluetooth headset, the tablet then becomes entirely useless)

    You also note there is "no guarantee" of those features on competing operating systems, yet without having seen the video or audio players on TouchPad in action at all, or without having used the browser, you say they are the apps you want.

    Isn't it fair to say you will just get the tablet with WebOS on it, regardless of features or apps?


    You're on the money with the last question. But that's OK. Some people just want what they want, regardless of the setbacks. I prefer to go with a working system now as who knows if I will be able to take advantage of Touchpad later. (life is not a guarantee) While webos users having been sitting around for months waiting for the tech of their preference to get up to speed, millions and millions of people have enjoyed other platforms. I'm glad I'm not locked into one manufacturer mentality, otherwise I would not be posting this from an iPad. LOL
    And when I take my ride home i'll fire up Netflix or Slingbox and enjoy it now. If HP has something better down the road and I'm able to, I'll jump on that (but no slider phone)
  15. #635  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Well, talk the original design company into making one for the TouchPad then. Seems like Apple actually copied the base design from someone else.

    Apple iPad 2 Smart Cover vs. InCase Convertible Magazine Jacket... Fight! -- Engadget
    So what are you telling me here? Because it was not "invented by Apple" I shouldn't think it's gimmicky or I shouldn't want one? Or is it that in light of this I should want a TouchPad? Or did you just want to point out that Apple copied the base design? <-- honest questions because I wasn't sure what your point was.

    In the end, I don't care who came up with the original idea and I really like Apples version of this case for the same reason I liked Palm's touchstone over something like the Powermat.
  16. #636  
    Quote Originally Posted by astraith View Post
    Because I want the ability to answer my phone and texts with my tablet. While that's not an application it is a feature of the touchpad. Sure, iOS 5.0 will probably get a similar feature. But there is no guarentee of those features and no promise ipad 2 will get iOS 5.0 when it first comes out. IPad 1 didn't get the latest iOS update till this year if I am not mistaken. But the features and apps I want are on touchpad.
    My friend, if you for one second think the iPad 2 won't get the next major release of iOS (presumably 5), you know nothing about Apple.
  17. #637  
    Quote Originally Posted by estebancam View Post
    And I have to disagree with on you ecosystem. I think Apple's ecosystem is absolutely terrible. It works well, but it is sooooo limited. ... It's really simple stuff. HP has a better ecosystem for webOS. An actual computing system that works flawlessly (i think, and hope) between devices. Even to the point of putting webOS on printers, tablets, toasters, phones, and music players. Not to mention the awesomeness that is synergy. I have an iPhone now and that ecosystem is lacking. Why do I have to make separate ID's for everything? And why is it that EVERYTHING must connect to my computer before I get a good use out of it? There are tons of flaws. I don't see Apple as an ecosystem of software and connections like it should be. I see it as an ecosystem of hardware only. Which is rather useless.
    just wanted to comment. hope you don't mind.

    i think most people want the simple stuff right now. Like i don't have an apple tv. I have a Western digital to stream HD video to my tv but most people don't need apple tv even. Streaming files from a server is pretty advanced for the layperson.

    I think if you look at what apple in general offers it's, hd video recording, video editing, music recording in garage band, music downloads, music networking in the home, camera, iphoto app with photo sharing, tv and movie purchasing/renting (i think i've never used it so i'm going from memory), music purchasing through itunes, podcasting which isn't really music but its similar to radio where we used to get out music. i think of it more as talk radio. And you can do all of that and transfer your music between devices. your mp3 on your ipod, will stream on your network and play on your appletv. What apple hits in there "ecosystem" is a trifecta of consumer media. Music, video, images. Not only that every apple product looks darn near the same from the look of the OS to the look of the hardware. It's cohesive and i think that is a massive selling point. To me HP is like comparing Pontiac cars to a Lexus. They can provide the same features but they lack the polish to pull it off and worse they have been lacking polish for a while so they haven't built up a reputation and they have to fight that lack of reputation. but back to the ecosytem thing. I think if you compare that apple offering to what HP offers it's not nearly as seamless and many things come off as after thoughts. The music player, video recording seemed an after thought, i don't think there are video downloads, I don't think you can download tv or movies (i may be wrong i just don't do that like i said), The camera app for webos is lacks features like zoom and sepia and white balance etc. you mentioned that you saw apple as only a hardware ecosystem. I just don't think that's true. Now i'm not a mac owner buy my parents have em. And i think when you can take an ipad 2 edit video on it. Stop halfway through load the same project on your home computer in final cut and keep going that seems like a software ecosystem. When you can create a project in garage band on you ipad and move it to your macbook that seems like software so i think they do ok. I don't think they are perfect buy it's better then most. I mean i don't see any similar stuff going on with HP.

    but i just think when it comes to an entire package of integrated offerings nobody is close to apple right now. And i've never bought a single thing off of itunes. And i think the competition HP, RIM, and the others are trying to compete on the cheap. They don't want to really have to offer that level of uniformity and integration. I don't see HP making every single printer look like every single laptop they make. And every phone look like every laptop. Or paying to have the relationships with studios to sell media like video etc.

    And that is on top of the 10s of thousands of ipad apps they have. my two cents.
  18. #638  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    It's called "the web". Seriously, I don't know what is with this fetish people have with EVERYTHING needing to be self-contained within an app.
    But you can get the web on any phone. Saying that isn't a plus for your product.

    First every app is not just a website in app form. If you're a doctor using an ipad or phone to manage your patients during your rounds that's not about going to a web page. Maybe you are managing you're supply chain. I don't think that's a matter of just logging onto some website. Games aren't all on the web. If you want to stream netflix i don't think you can do that on the website? So saying just use the web is not a solution in many cases.

    But the bigger picture is if the choice is a phone with 200,000 dedicated apps and the web vs. a phone with just the web why would you pick a phone with just the web? How can HP sell that as a positive? Buy our phone, we offer you less then the competition? Most people will choose the option with more, well, options.

    To me it seems futile to fight the market, like the consumer is wrong to want what it wants. It wants apps. Saying you don't get why they want apps is your right but it doesn't change the reality that they still want apps. It's like saying "I don't know why people have a fetish for air conditioning in their cars. Just roll down the windows." I mean yeah they can roll down the windows but if you're trying to sell a car telling a guy "just roll down the windows" isn't going to convince him to buy your car w/o AC over an equal car with AC at the dealer across the street.
    Last edited by blackmagic01; 03/03/2011 at 04:09 PM.
  19. #639  
    CGK, thanks for the FC article, it's a nice read.

    "The Wall Street Journal was moved to comment on several articles about the suspected build cost of the Motorola Xoom tablet, which rocks in at over $30 more expensive than a similarly-specced Apple iPad 1."

    this is intriguing, Xoom is considerably higher-specced, the fact it costs merely $30 more to make gives me hope that HP can provide very competitive pricing on the TouchPad given its much bigger manufacturing capacity and purchasing power (on parts).
  20. #640  
    This thread is getting out of hand.. We have:

    1) Apple homers
    2) webOS homers

    3) people who just want good tech that is usable today


    Listen, no one is saying iOS is better than webOS. Its not.

    BUT if you reread every post, every webOS homer is essentially saying that the touchpad is better with keyword such as: I hope, I think, potentially, when HP gets going, A year from now, etc etc

    Thats the problem. webOS is still a year away. Minimum. AND the problem is we have heard this before. Back in 2009, we are a year away from an awesome webOS experience. 2010 came along and the same old BS. 2011, you tell me.

    Touchpad will be a beta phone and first adopters will go through the same growing pains that of those with the Pre-

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