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  1. #21  
    I agree with Kupe completely and have talked about this elsewhere. The Z22 is a piece of junk, IMO, and I would never recommend it to anyone. Yes, the NVFS is a very valuable feature. But that's the only good thing about it, IMO. If someone wants a "starter" PDA, I'd hunt down an older model online which would probably be cheaper and offer more features (other than NVFS). Or, I'd try to sell them on paying the extra $20-30 to get a Zire 31 or $60 to get a T|E2.

    MP3 is a must-have feature for this market (soccer moms, young students, etc.) and you need an SD slot (or a *lot* more built-in storage) for that.

    And photo viewing? How many photos are you going to fit with such little storage space?

    They really dropped the ball here. IMO, a perfect $100-150 "starter" Palm device, would be something like a Zire 31 with a more vibrant screen (so you'd actually *want* to show off photos on it - a resolution of 160x160 might still be acceptable), NVFS, and hard buttons optimized for MP3 usage (and/or a wired MP3 remote control a la the old Sony CLIEs).

    I also think leaving out the SD slot is foolish from a financial perspective. A lot of inexperienced buyers will be apt to buy the Palm-branded SD cards hanging on the rack next to this device "to make sure it's compatible" and the profit margins on Palm-branded SD cards are (or should be if they're cutting the deals with SD manufacturers that they should be cutting) quite high.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  2. #22  
    They should have just updated the Zire 31 by adding NVFS, some changeable faceplates or covers and maybe renamed it!!

    There must be a whole lot of "under $100" appeal that I don't realize since there's such a minor price difference between the two (Z22 & Zire 31).

    So many people are subscribing to online music services for their MP3 music......getting used to connecting sync cables to the hardware! New people are going to the store with their money in hand, determined to come out with an MP3 option. I guess I'm very blinded by my love and reliance of the pda because something like the bundled Zire 31 I described above would seem like an easy sell to me

    PDA's are like mini-vans: once you get one, you'll never go back. Seems to me Palm would try a little harder to rope in some of the MP3 users that would probably, sonner than later, end up going to a LifeDrive or Treo.

    Just my .02!
    -jeff

    ...the Truth will set you free!
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    People bashing the Z22 are looking at it all wrong. Palm isn't putting this thing out for people who flash custom ROMS onto their Treos, or rip/covert DVDs to watch.

    It's an "Intro" device. Like gMunk says, it's to get the soccer moms, aunts and uncles who are curious about those "Palm things." Look how many Zires and Zire 21's they sold. Same price and much better.
    OK, maybe your right. Palm does tend to sell these "Intro" devices like hotcakes:

    http://brighthand.com/article/Zire_P..._Million_Sales

    They'll be no Z22 for this "ultra palm geek", .... BLUES
    -->BtDUN pre- and post- SprintPCS update 1.12 paired to PC and PPC.
    Darth_Maul -- a dark attacker, trained in the Jedi arts.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by pda_jedi
    OK, maybe your right. Palm does tend to sell these "Intro" devices like hotcakes:

    http://brighthand.com/article/Zire_P..._Million_Sales

    They'll be no Z22 for this "ultra palm geek", .... BLUES
    LOL...2003...Yeah those were the good old days.
  5. #25  
    Hi yall;
    Friendly neighborhood Z22 reviewer here.
    Just wanted to comment on some of the discention about the worth(lessness) of the Z22. Some would say that the 31 is a better device. It is, but ever tried showing a non-techie how to load an MP3 without using RealPlayer's plugin (yea)? Ok. How about ever showing someone that they can download the game you have on your Treo by syncing (yea, they dont do that either)? Ok. Its literally a device for techie newbies. ITs great, and the PERCEPTION of being under $100 is also what makes it stand out from the 31.

    Personally, I dont think they will sell a million as quickly as with teh TE and Z/Z21 models, but they will sell a ton. And just think, the fact that it looks like an iPod+LD mix will play right into Palm's hands when they want to sell the higher margined LD at them.

    Now to address Treo-like issues.
    Ever download a program onto your Treo. Kinda painless aint it? If you have an unzipping program, memory card, and some time right? Well, with the Z22, that [stupid] AddIt client is made to do all the "techie" stuff for them. Making them download more apps, therefore filling their Z22 to the gills with games and BMI checkers. They will want to go wireless after doing this (I reviewed the Z22 and literally watched the change in perception happen to quite a few folks). Meaning that we can show them the Treo, and its cost of entry, and Palm again gets higher margins. The Z22 is designed to get them to a Treo; and it will work. Sad part is, it might not work fast enough to make the whole world a bunch of Treo-nuts
    MMM | AntoineRJWright.com | BH | Jaiku

    Moved on to Symbian, but still will visit from time to time.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    You're still missing the point. It is an "Intro" device. Look what it can do. If soccer mom outgrows it, guess what? She buys a TX. Why spend the extra "$10" for an SD slot, when they can potentially make another $300 when you get the itch for more?

    Get it??
    Heh - got it. That's a great explanation for one of the contributing factors to Palm's market erosion from near 90% to under 50% in 4 years.
  7. #27  
    There are gonna be alot of palm newbies out there buying the Zire 22, but there are also alot of Treo 600's and 650's out there owned by palm newbies.

    Just this past week I was having a drink with my girlfriend's coworkers and this guy pulled out a Treo 650, so I asked him what he had installed on it. He said he just uses it for email, datebook, and contacts for work. He probably didn't have 2 third party apps on it. I don't even think he had an sd card with him. He also mentioned to me during our conversation, "Oh, I don't play games." It was almost derogatory, the way he said it.

    Granted, Palm is probably gonna sell more Zire's than Treos, but how many buisness types out there are just considering their work provided Treo as their ball and chain?
    Browse over to my new forum. http://www.palmfanatic.com

    "The wireless telegraph is not difficult to understand. The ordinary telegraph is like a very long cat. You pull the tail in New York, and it meows in Los Angeles. The wireless is the same, only without the cat. " - Albert Einstein

    Palm IIIxe - Kyocera 7135 - Treo 600 - Treo 650 -> Palm Vx - Tungsten T3 - Treo 700p
  8. #28  
    Soccer Moms are using their fully featured cell phones for PIM purposes.

    I personally think that Palm should of been putting their R & D time into the next generation Treo Palm OS phone that that piece of crap Zire.

    HTC is catching fast and will overtake you Palm
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Joe
    Soccer Moms are using their fully featured cell phones for PIM purposes.

    I personally think that Palm should of been putting their R & D time into the next generation Treo Palm OS phone that that piece of crap Zire.

    HTC is catching fast and will overtake you Palm

    Believe or not, there still is a market for non-phone stand alone PIM organizers out there. What Palm is doing here is specifically targetting the one billion dollar paper planner market...yeah, there's still people out there that use paper!! You would have thunk it huh?

    Anyway, by pricing a fairly well spec's device like the Z22 as sub $99 price point, Palm is trying to get all those people who wouldn't normally wouldn't consider a pda to buy one. This is an entry level pda to recruit NEW customers who probably never owned a pda before. Thus if you know how to use your phone or smartphone for PIM, then this devie IS NOT FOR YOU!

    Similarly, people who are into paper planners probably aren't interested in mp3 playback either. It's not a core feature at this price point and besides, if some one really wanted a mp3 player, they probably will just plunk down an etra 50 bucks and get thr Z31 or better yet, get an iPOD Nano or something. Palm cannot compete with the likes of the Nano etc, but they can target and recruit new customers who need a simple and elegant pda for newbies..
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  10. #30  
    gfunk, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I can appreciate that the Z22 may be one of the most attractive PDAs around (in an iPod-like sort of way), but other than that I don't see much appeal to the soccer mom crowd. IMO, this market is buying something based on style *and* features. This has style, but the only real feature it has is still just PIM. Is that enough?

    You say that "people who are into paper planners probably aren't interested in MP3 playback." I'd argue that most of the soccer mom segment is interested in MP3 playback. And I disagree that Palm can't compete with the likes of the Nano. I think they could compete quite well if they bothered to try.

    First, I think the soft Graffiti 2 panel has to go for this market segment. Graffiti 2 still has enough of a learning curve that it might be enough of a hurdle for the soccer mom segment to be dissuaded. Let's start with an updated Treo 90. Give it OS5 (and, with it, MP3), NVFS, a more vibrant screen, dedicated MP3 buttons, and some iPod-influenced design, and I think they've got a winner.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    First, I think the soft Graffiti 2 panel has to go for this market segment. Graffiti 2 still has enough of a learning curve that it might be enough of a hurdle for the soccer mom segment to be dissuaded. Let's start with an updated Treo 90. Give it OS5 (and, with it, MP3), NVFS, a more vibrant screen, dedicated MP3 buttons, and some iPod-influenced design, and I think they've got a winner.

    Hey Scott,

    I have to agree with you on that last part. Even while the Z22 may be a great paper planner replacement, I agree that entering data via G2 still can be a difficult process for newbies to adjust to especially if they haven't been exposed to it before. In general, entering data on non-thumbboard devices is very cumbersome and is why I have also been arguing for some time that Palm should revisit the Treo 90 and re-release a low end thumbboard integrated device...

    However, I doubt this will happen soon b/c the Treo 90 was not a financially successful device for Handspring at the time, while Palm has had great success with it's low end Zire series. I would love to see a new low end Treo 90-like device rebranded as a Zire perhaps.

    Anyway, it seems Palm is very focused at the paper planner market:

    With the introduction of the Palm Z22 organizer, Palm is targeting the $1 billion per year paper-planner market. Research conducted by Palm suggests a substantial population of late technology adopters have been afraid to buy handhelds, fearing they are too difficult to use. The Palm Z22 organizer offers paper-planner users – as well as others – an extremely simple and fun way to stay organized. New users will find the three-step set-up process for the organizer incredibly easy. Users also will find that keeping track of their to-do lists, busy schedules, family and friends’ contact information, shopping lists and birthdays all in one s mall place is useful and simple.

    <snip>

    “The Palm Z22 organizer was built on the success of the original Zire handheld, which sold more than 1 million units in its first seven months on the market,” said Stuart Maughan, general manager for Palm Middle East branch. “It’s perfect for first-time users and students, who can now throw away their paper planners, replacing scratched-out pages and dozens of sticky notes with all the information they need in one place.”
    http://www.strategiy.com/electronics...20051012032243

    However at the same time, I do think that if Palm execs are smart (which of course is debateable ), they will eventually release a line of low end thumbboard Zires. In fact, there are several recent interesting articles comparing the advantage/disadvantages of paper planners vs PDA that specifically high-light the weaknesses of data entry on pda's vs paper:

    The paper planner still has its advantages. I have yet to see a Palm user write graffiti or pecking at the miniature keyboard as quickly as a paper planner user could scribble appointments in their scheduler. When it comes to drawing maps and entering directions, they're way ahead. Even accessing data from the calendar at the flip of a page seems faster than turning on a PDA, tapping buttons and scrolling. You could even claim (poor handwriting aside) that a hard copy planner is a lot easier to read. And I have never known a paper planner user to have to change batteries or recharge their organiser to keep it operating. The initial investment is a lot less for paper, as is the replacement cost if it's ever lost or damaged beyond repair. And speaking of costs, have you ever experienced a problem with having to upgrade to the latest paper planner model? Seems like the manufacturers of paper planners forgot to build in obsolescence! Paper planner users can also boast that they have never had their planner crash, freeze, or lose all their data. They might even mention the joy of being able to see their week at a glance, details and all, or being able to colour code events without having to add third party software or simply the peace of mind they experience by seeing all their past year's planners lined up in their bookcase, information intact.
    Paper Planner or PDA? Which is Better?

    In addition here is another quote stating the same thing:

    Okay, now here is where the Palm device pulls ahead. You can input your phone numbers, lists, etc. either directly into the Palm itself or into the computer with which you sync your data. With a push of a button, the data on the Palm and on the computer are synchronized with each other. And if you lose your Palm device, you still have your records in your computer (which you back up regularly, don't you?)

    <snip>

    Okay, now here is where I get the Palm people mad at me. The biggest problem with the Palm is getting information into it while NOT sitting at your computer. And if you're always sitting at your computer, why do you need a Palm? You can either input data via the little hunt and peck keyboard on the machine, or you have to learn their "graffiti" language to hand write items in. Now it isn't hard to learn the "graffiti" language, but it is SLOW: One character at a time. If you want to capitalize a word, it takes an extra stylus stroke.
    PDA's vs. Paper Planners: What are you doing with your Palm?
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



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  12. #32  
    Oops, Scottforgot to about the rest of your post!
    gfunk, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. I can appreciate that the Z22 may be one of the most attractive PDAs around (in an iPod-like sort of way), but other than that I don't see much appeal to the soccer mom crowd. IMO, this market is buying something based on style *and* features. This has style, but the only real feature it has is still just PIM. Is that enough?
    Well, according to Palm's internal research as stated in the link above, there is a One billion dollar paper planner market of consumers who are generally only interested in PIM as core funtionality...

    You say that "people who are into paper planners probably aren't interested in MP3 playback." I'd argue that most of the soccer mom segment is interested in MP3 playback. And I disagree that Palm can't compete with the likes of the Nano. I think they could compete quite well if they bothered to try.
    Well, they do offer the Z31 which is only $50 bucks more. Also, Palm probably wants to offer a staggerred feature increase in its models to entice consumers to "upgrade up" to the next model. If they offerred everything in the $99 Z22 that the $150 Z31 has, then why would anyone upgrade to a Z31, or from a Z31 to a TE2 and etc?

    Of course, in a year from now the specs of the Z31 device may be priced where the Z22 is now, but that is the whole point of featrue migration over time anyway...

    I would just like to see a sub $150 Treo 90-like device with thumbboard as discussed above...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
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