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  1.    #1  
    OK, I've been an avid reader for the past year, and I like my visor. However, I just started doing the math. OK... I want color. So I replace my visor with a Prism. $450. Ok, now I want an MP3 player... so I buy a Soundsgood, so I buy one. $250. Now I want a voice recorder, another $50.

    I'm up around $750, and I'm tempted by something like the iPaq ($499). I know it is Windoze CE, but it seems pretty damn cool. So yesterday I stopped at CompUSA and browsed. Let me say that 320 x 240 resolution looks pretty good.

    Probably, I won't end up going that route. I'm torn by the functionality in my Visor Deluxe (I still prefer Datebook 4 to Outlook 2000 on my PC... ;-) and the feeling that technology is passing it by. It just seems like the palm OS is being forced to hold back because of compatibility issues. Can't they increase the screen resolution or something? Or add some more memory? 8 MB seems like it should be the mininum. I'm probably naive here, but it seems like there is more to be done than just adding color. $450 for a visor prism seems like an awful lot for a color screen. When the iPaq's are $499, I get the feeling that palm & handspring should be including some more features for the money, or decreasing the price accordingly.

    OK, Heretic mode off. Let the flames begin. I do really like my VDx, but it wasn't $450, either.
  2. #2  
    No need for flames BrianP. Your arguments are very valid. Don't forget though that the Ipaq requires a sleeve to add addons. Also do not forget that there are lots and lots more software available for the Palm OS that Win CE.
  3. #3  
    I agree with your points Yardie, however, something has been scratching at my 'inner being' since the release of the Prism. Not too long ago, Sony announced a colour version of the Clie that will be coming out next year. People on this board went ballistic! 'How dare they ask over $400 for a colour PalmOS handheld?!?!' they exclaimed. '...and with no added features!!!' they shouted.
    'There's no way anybody would buy it!' i read on a continuous basis.

    Well, Mr. Hawkins has just beat Sony to the punch and we see people proclaiming that the Prism is the best thing since....since....?

    I am interested by the fact that $50 more gets you a PPC device with some very interesting features. But as Yardie points out, there are still some advantages to staying with the PalmOS (all with which i agree!).

    I just hope PalmOS 4.0 and the 'announced' colour Vx might make me step back and say 'Yes, this is why I'd rather have a palmOS device over a PPC'

    wow, it's been awhile.....things have REALLY changed...why is my Visor Edge still in my hand? Will a Treo fit better?
  4. #4  
    Originally posted by Hoser_in_USA
    I just hope PalmOS 4.0 and the 'announced' colour Vx might make me step back and say 'Yes, this is why I'd rather have a palmOS device over a PPC'
    Next year, Palm wants to "colorize" your life. We will see a BIG...BIG push into color handhelds. The Palm Vx(c) is merely the tip of the iceberg. You can expect to see a new replacement to the Palm VII that will be smaller, lighter, and have a color display. In fact, most of their handhelds will have color displays, which they want to become the standard, thereby making Palm an industry trendsetter. Palm will also be retiring the aging Palm III series, and replacing it with something we haven't seen yet, possibly the new V series.

    And of course SONY will offer the color Clie. I can't wait for that. But as it stands, 2001 will be the year of color handhelds.

    Rock on!
  5. #5  
    Brianp, I agree that 8MB "should" be the minimum amount of RAM for this group. However, there were no Palm units with 8MB of RAM less than a year ago. The 8MB entry level came with the introduction of a little know product called the Visor (honk if you've heard of them).
    <><
  6. #6  
    Originally posted by Hoser_in_USA
    Not too long ago, Sony announced a colour version of the Clie that will be coming out next year. People on this board went ballistic! 'How dare they ask over $400 for a colour PalmOS handheld?!?!' they exclaimed. '...and with no added features!!!' they shouted.
    'There's no way anybody would buy it!' i read on a continuous basis.

    Well, Mr. Hawkins has just beat Sony to the punch and we see people proclaiming that the Prism is the best thing since....since....?
    That's disingenuous. What people complained about with the Clié was the $400 price tag for a monochrome unit with an as-yet-memory-only expansion capability, a jog dial, and somewhat improved form factor (not the equal of the Palm V), no Mac support, and little else in the way of added value.

    The "over $400" price tag discussed on VC for the color unit was based on a misunderstanding of how Japanese consumer electronics prices translated to the US: people converted the yen figure to $550 USD. It's literally truthful, but misleading, to claim that people went "ballistic" over an "over $400" price when it was, in fact, believed to be $550 -- which is a lot more reasonable to complain about.

    And when Sony first teased us with the announcement, the spec was too extravagant to be credible: a color, internet-connected unit for under $200. I knew that was ludicrous even at the time they announced it, but like everyone else, I did have a bad case of sticker shock when the $550 price was estimated for a unit without internet access. When Handspring releases a $550 product with no additional functionality besides color, or when they promise one for under $200 with internet access, it will be reasonable to say that Hawkins has beat Sony to the punch.
  7. #7  
    Originally posted by LanMan
    (honk if you've heard of them).
    Honk!!!



    I think we're in the early stages of a transition period for handhelds. What I feel is going on "behind the scenes" is this: people like the CE units from a hardware perspective: high-res displays, larger memory, etc. It's the OS/software that's holding those devices back (IMHO). The simplicity of the PalmOS, along with the wealth of available apps (many still free), is what people want.

    So... at some point, possibly with OS4, we will begin to see mega-hardware devices (the MegaVisor!)combined with the PalmOS... the best of both worlds, don't you think?

    And I'd even go as far as saying that the we ain't seen nothing yet in terms of ballistic!!! We're gonna pay dearly for these fancy new handhelds in their first iteration.
    .
    .....
    MarkEagle
    .....<a href="http://discussion.treocentral.com/tcforum/index.php?s=">TreoCentral</a> | <a href="http://discussion.visorcentral.com/vcforum/index.php?s=">VisorCentral</a> Forum Moderator - Forum Guidelines
    .....Sprint PCS Treo 650
    .....God bless America, my home sweet home...
  8. #8  
    The iPAQ is a nice device no doubt about it.

    However, I have to mention that the 32MB of RAM is really not enough to keep many MP3s - remember that the iPAQ itself needs some of that to store programs and also to be able to run Windows CE (about half of available memory, say) and thus, you're stuck with about 16MB or less to store MP3s, which means only about 4 or 5 songs at the most.

    If you really want to use the iPAQ as an MP3 player, you would still have to go out and buy:
    a. A CompactFlash Jacket for the iPAQ
    b. A CompactFlash card for storage

    Both of these two combined together would be about the same combined cost as the Visor Prism and the SoundsGood module.

    In fact, the cost of the MiniJam and the Soundsgood is not so much the device itself but the high cost of memory, which is a problem whether you're buying a CF card or whatever.
    Tan Kit Hoong,
    Star Publications (M) Ltd
    <img src="http://thestar.com.my/tech/images/thestar_140x45.gif">
  9. #9  
    Also there is software costs for people like me that use the Office platform at work and home:
    Desktop to Go $50.00
    mainly contacts so that business,home, and other addresses
    can be synced to the VDX.
    Documents to Go $50.00
    view and work with Word documents.
    ThinKDB $25
    work with Access databases
    Quicksheet $30
    work with Excel spreadsheets

    This adds $155 to the cost of a prism.

    In my case, any price over $300 for a PDA is beyond my budget. I'll get a color Visor when it hits this target.


  10. #10  
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    Probably, I won't end up going that route. I'm torn by the functionality in my Visor Deluxe (I still prefer Datebook 4 to Outlook 2000 on my PC... ;-) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    If you are at all attached to datebk4,do not get an Ipaq. In June, I decided that I really wanted a color PDA, for readability among other things. I was really taken by all of the hype about the ipaq and its screen. So I sold my Palm V and got an Ipaq. The screen was fantastic, but the calendar and task list were terrible- many more taps than necessary to do basic things. Fine, I thought, the built in palm datebook needs some help too, so I explored the add ons available for the ipaq-dashboard, agenda today, pocketagenda. None of them came close to datebk4, were slower,and more expensive. It took twice as long to enter an appointment,and I found myself not pulling out my pda to schedule an appointment in the hallway when I ran into somebody (too much hassle-wait until I get to my desktop). I never had this feeling with my palm and db4.

    Over the next couple of months, I found myself relying on my desktop more than I ever did with my palm, because calendaring/task mgt was much more work on the ipaq. As soon as the prism came out, I sold the ipaq and got one. I have absolutely no regrets about this decision- the only thing I miss about the ipaq is the screen, but the visor gives me so much more functionality for what I really need (calendar,task list, syncing with wife's calendar, web page reading). You really cannot do very much on an ipaq without adding memory,and then you lose the size.
  11. #11  
    In June, I decided that I really wanted a color PDA, for readability among other things. I was really taken by all of the hype about the ipaq and its screen. So I sold my Palm V and got an Ipaq. The screen was fantastic, but the calendar and task list were terrible- many more taps than necessary to do basic things.
    This is the crux of the whole iPaq vs. Visor issue. Every time I go to Staples, I see the iPaq and its genuinely superior screen. I pick it up and play with it, thinking that somehow this time will be different. But it never fails: things like editing the task list, or even entering a memo, are just too frustrating to put up with. The CE interface is so exasperating, on a visceral level, that Compaq could double the features and I'd still consider the Visor a better value. I'm all for features, but at the end of the day, if you can't enter and retrieve information easily by hand, it's not much of a value in my book.

    [Edited by Gameboy70 on 11-11-2000 at 02:03 AM]
  12.    #12  
    I totally agree with what is being said, both about Palm OS4 and the iPaq. Like gmasss, I prefer Datebook4 to Outlook 2000. Datebook makes getting things done quick and easy... couldn't be more pleased. Things happen with a couple of taps, and it's very useable. If Palm OS4 can address some of the hardward limitations we currently have (8mb, 160x160 screen, 20 mhz processor, etc.) I think that Palm will continue to slam Windows CE.

    The thing that keeps bringing my wandering eye back to the Ipaq is the hardware. 32M, 200Mhz, awesome screen, etc. From a hardware perspective, it really rocks... No question I'd prefer the palm OS any day (or the Linux OS? don't know anything about it...) Overall, I think I keep coming back to Palm because every time I play with an Ipaq or a Jornada, I ask myself "how can a 200 Mhz processor be this slow..."

    When I think about the costs objectively, $250 for a visor deluxe really does make for a better organizer than a $500 ipaq or jornada. It will be some time before can fork out $450 for a Prism, however. Don't get me wrong, if my company buys me one I'll be delighted, but I'm not going to spend the extra money for one just now. I think that the price is a little rich for my blood just now... maybe next time.
  13. #13  
    I've come to realize in life that, specs are nice, but the real difference is if it fits your needs and works well for you. What I like about Palm is that it includes the stuff you need for personal information management. How much faster can you pull up your calendar? You don't need a 200 MHZ processor or 32 megs for these things. A small simple operating system is not so buggy either and the small aps are cheap. The ipaq screen looks great, but I love the function of the palm. The visor prism improves the whole experience thru the splash of color. I don't want a device to replace my laptop, I want walking information, and the visor is a perfect solution for me. Given all things equal, I would not trade it for any other device. When handspring comes with their next product I will be there to upgrade again.....worth it !
  14. #14  
    Just to add a small item. I have been trying to decide on getting the Prism. I really want one and have the money but keep thinking $450…$450.. Just for kicks I was out at Best Buy looking to see when they would hit the store, probably next week as HS said. So while I was there I was looking at the Ipaq even though they had the 3630 not the 3650, not that I know the difference not being into Pocket PC. Hardware looks REALLY awesome, anyway, as I said in a previous post though it is a MS OS and I really want to stick with the Palm OS.

    So I told myself that hey the Prism wasn’t too much more than the IIIC right so $449 is justified. So I look down and the IIIc is just $339now! I did a double take. They came down that much? I mean $110 difference? Is the Prism worth THAT much more? Now I wouldn’t touch a IIIc because of the lack of SB slot etc.. but that makes me wonder why the Prism is that much more. Shouldn’t the Prism be no more than $375?. Maybe $399 tops? I mean come on HS make it reasonable. Went to Staples as well, same prices.

    Someone tell me this thing is that good to pay $110 more for basically the same device without FlashRam. Not that that is a huge deal but still….

    Next Friday I go out to get one…maybe….help me decide
    Systems Analyst by trade, Drummer by desire and Music Lover by birth. A self proclaimed Geek and gadget nut. ii

    Did you know: The Pittsburgh Steelers have more championships than 21 other NFL teams combined!
    Pittsburgh Steelers-6 Time Super Bowl Champions!

    Pittsburgh Penguins-3 Time Stanley Cup Champions!
  15. #15  
    Originally posted by Babylon5
    So I told myself that hey the Prism wasn’t too much more than the IIIC right so $449 is justified. So I look down and the IIIc is just $339now! I did a double take. They came down that much? I mean $110 difference? Is the Prism worth THAT much more? Now I wouldn’t touch a IIIc because of the lack of SB slot etc.. but that makes me wonder why the Prism is that much more. Shouldn’t the Prism be no more than $375?. Maybe $399 tops?
    The price of the IIIc came down that much because they weren't selling. It's Palm's second-poorest selling product, next to the Palm VII. The IIIc has 8 bit color, while the Prism has 16 bit color and runs at twice the speed. But the form factor of the IIIc is terrible, while the form factor of the Prism, I'm told, isn't much thicker than the VDx.

    I'm waiting for the Prism to hit retail myself. I want to actually see the screen and give unit a test drive before I feel justified in spending $449.
  16. #16  
    The Prism over the palm IIIc, here is some incremental features:

    USB Syncing over serial
    33 MHZ processor speed
    Way nicerCalculator !!!
    Way NicerCitytime
    Date Book Plus
    16 Bit Color Screen over 8 bit!
    Springboard Slot

    The $110 over the IIIc is EASILY justified in my book. You need to see some of the color games and pictures on this bad boy.
  17. #17  
    I think that if you care about color you will want the Prism. I still keep the baby pictures (see review) on my Prism to show people the difference between 8 & 16-bit color.
    James Hromadka, TreoCentral Editor
    Houston - EST. 1836
  18. #18  
    Originally posted by Gameboy70

    The price of the IIIc came down that much because they weren't selling. It's Palm's second-poorest selling product, next to the Palm VII. The IIIc has 8 bit color, while the Prism has 16 bit color and runs at twice the speed. But the form factor of the IIIc is terrible, while the form factor of the Prism, I'm told, isn't much thicker than the VDx.

    I'm waiting for the Prism to hit retail myself. I want to actually see the screen and give unit a test drive before I feel justified in spending $449.

    That does make sense if it isn't selling well. Now then that being the case the main question is; if the IIIc is selling so bad, will color support still be pushed as heavily? Is color support in applications going to become a standard sooner rather than later? I will assume, to survive, the next generation of Palm devices will have to be color, increase resolution and better sound etc… I am hoping that the limited number of IIIc users and Prism users are enough for developers to come out with color support in the applications. If they are smart they should include it now rather than later as at some point in the near future the new generation of color Palms will be out I am sure. So to already have the color support software base can only be a good thing and will run on the non-color units.

    I really was thinking of an Ipaq because of the nicer hardware and size and value for the same money, but have decided I want to stay with the Palm OS and support Handspring so am going to put my money where my mouth is and just buy one blind the end of this week. I think even with inferior hardware as far as screen resolution, the PalmOS makes up for it and I love the software base and heck... I am just used to it 8o)

    Also the support here and on other boards for Palm stuff is great. Mainly here though


    Systems Analyst by trade, Drummer by desire and Music Lover by birth. A self proclaimed Geek and gadget nut. ii

    Did you know: The Pittsburgh Steelers have more championships than 21 other NFL teams combined!
    Pittsburgh Steelers-6 Time Super Bowl Champions!

    Pittsburgh Penguins-3 Time Stanley Cup Champions!
  19. #19  
    What caught my eye this morning was the Omnisky announcement that they will bring Ricochet compatibility to the PocketPC platform in the first half of 2001. Arguably, you already have that with the Sierra and Novatel PCMCIA cards, but Omnisky's announcement seems to skew the favorability a little bit. I'm an Omnisky user now [first Palm V and now Prism], but I am also a Ricochet user on my Mac. There is no comparison in speed. And that kind of thing can go a long way toward overcoming the OS advantage that Palm might enjoy.
  20. #20  
    What caught my eye this morning was the Omnisky announcement that they will bring Ricochet compatibility to the PocketPC platform in the first half of 2001.
    <Sigh> Where I live, in LA, Ricochet is the SixPak of wireless modems. I've been told that Metricom would be offering its service "some time in the few months" now for about 18 months. I was dying to stick one of these modems on my Vaio, but there's no service available here; just the Bay Area and San Diego. So maybe OmniSky will be on target for the rest of the free world, but here, that's not a believable enough reason to get a PocketPC (or any PDA, for that matter).
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