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  1. slinky's Avatar
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    #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    Slinky, I'm trying to talk about the phone in real life - not in a hypothetical unlimited power wifi paradise.

    Wifi drains the battery and shuts down the phone. EVDO does everything I need at high speed - including shooting off emails. The only additional benefit wifi gives is access to shared drives and occasional internet access in low signal areas. If I need that, I'll turn wifi on.
    Hmmm... I'm glad that *you* don't need (and maybe use) WiFi. No need to be hostile nor is it appropriate to call it a "unlimited paradise." It's a fact that many of us use it frequently in reality. Once again, here are just a couple of reasons why EVDO <> WiFi:

    (1) If another $45 per month tacked onto your bill doesn't bother you, good for you. Consider that cost when you deploy many of these devices in an organization - $45 for every phone. See #2.
    (2) If you want/need to login securely to a private network from a local wireless router (e.g. work, home) then EVDO is not the appropriate solution and is a needless cost.
    (3) If you do any sort of traveling out of your home area of coverage the importance of the WiFi option becomes more apparent and EVDO will not be available. You can jack in via WiFi at most hotels.
    (4) Like all technology, the more prominent it becomes, the more many find uses for it... as I mentioned, the i730 seems exciting because I wonder how much better it will be in the second generation (and Palm still hasn't gotten off the ground with an SD card...)
  2. #142  
    [QUOTE=Martin02]Been following this thread and from someone who owns an I730, here are my thoughts on the wifi issue:

    One of the main reason I got the I730 was because of wifi and the promise of how useful I figured it would be. The reality of it is, however, I rarely if ever used wifi on the I730, not because I had EV-DO as an option but mainly because of how it was implemented on the I730.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin02
    The first issue with wifi on the I730 is the battery drain, it really, really eats it up and because battery life with the standard battery is already so limited, I found myself using wifi only if I really had to (no way am I carrying around a 2nd battery). A few minutes max on wifi and that was it or I would surely suffer the consequences of a dead phone later in the day.
    I can understand that, but if I use it at school or work, why not charge it when needed? If you didnt have the charger available, then I can understand the limited use.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin02
    Second issue is simultaneous use of wifi with voice (I know, Treo can't do data and voice simult. either but that's a 1xRTT limitation, this is a Verizon limitation that can be fixed). At first I was not too concerned with this issue simply because I don't talk and surf at the same time (because I can't with the 650!) so I figured no big deal if I have to turn off the voice radio to use wifi. What I failed to take into account is that while using wifi, I wouldn't be able to receive phone calls and since Windows Mobile does such a poor job of alerting you to missed calls/waiting voicemails (I hate that stupid bubble), that compounded the problem even more once I turned the voice radio back on. The simulataneous use of wifi and voice has now been partially fixed however by superdave but again, with the battery drain, it really limits its use.
    So you can get voice calls while you are using the wifi or no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin02
    Finally, wifi on the I730 is not compatible with a lot of routers. Something to do with 128 vs 130 preambles or something like that, I730 recognizes one and not the other and unfortunately, my work used the one it wasn't compatible with.
    That does suck. Sounds like a pretty good limitation...hopefully it will be fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin02
    So in the end, I switched back to the 650. I think the I730 shows a lot of promise and for people who have the time to really learn it or know Windows Mobile, I think it will do well for them. If Samsung can implement a more power efficient wifi radio in the next version of the Samsung I730 and couple that with one-handed use of WM5, I think I would consider it but for now, the 650 works as a better "phone" for me. I730 definitely has a lot more bells and whistles and is infinitely more powerful than the 650 but I need something that can act as a solid phone first and foremost (despite how much data I use), everything else is secondary to that and the I730 just didn't cut it for me in the "phone" category. No doubt there are many happy I730 users out there for whom it works great for, I only wish I could join them because I think the I730 really has almost unlimited possibilties for what it can be used for.
    Well, its still pretty new. Most PPC folks tend to find ways to hack the registry it to get it to where they want. (Hobbes comes to mind.)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  3. #143  
    Sorry folks...I can't resist the temptation!!! He's just burying himself deeper and deeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Hmmm... I'm glad that *you* don't need (and maybe use) WiFi. No need to be hostile nor is it appropriate to call it a "unlimited paradise." It's a fact that many of us use it frequently in reality.
    Apparently you don't use it on your phone/pda, do ya?? How are you living without it if it's so important to your real world?

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Once again, here are just a couple of reasons why EVDO <> WiFi:

    (1) If another $45 per month tacked onto your bill doesn't bother you, good for you. Consider that cost when you deploy many of these devices in an organization - $45 for every phone. See #2.
    SOO...WHY DON'T YOU SWITCH CARRIERS, SLINKY?? STILL WAITIN' FOR THAT ANSWER!! Any organization that's deploying many of these devices wouldn't be paying $45, now would they?? They'd go straight to Sprint...cut a deal to pay $10/mo, or LESS, even!! Or perhaps wait a few more months and pay 3 times that much money (still less than that $45 that you're proposing) to get a data service that's 10 times faster. The latter's what I'd do if I were in an organization that's deploying many of these devices.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    (2) If you want/need to login securely to a private network from a local wireless router (e.g. work, home) then EVDO is not the appropriate solution and is a needless cost.
    I can login securely to a private network from ANYWHERE in the country, homeslice! EV-DO would be the appropriate solution also if you're willing to shell out a few more bucks a month. $30/mo ain't that bad if you have access to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    (3) If you do any sort of traveling out of your home area of coverage the importance of the WiFi option becomes more apparent and EVDO will not be available. You can jack in via WiFi at most hotels.
    If you do any sort of traveling out of your home area, you're not going to be getting WiFi, slinky!! What are you not understanding about this. You might be able to get WiFi at some hotels...but don't you have a laptop for traveling purposes?? I understand that you want your phone to take the place of your laptop...but it's not going to replace a 12+" screen and a full-size keyboard!! Not for a couple more years whenever UWB comes out. Even if I forgot to bring my laptop by accident or it broke or something...I've still got my 1xRTT connection that I can send emails with (which seems to be your number one use of the internet, in general...ya poor sap). What happens if the hotel you're staying at doesn't have WiFi?? Oops...you can't get online...but I can!! haahahahahhahahahah!!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    (4) Like all technology, the more prominent it becomes, the more many find uses for it... as I mentioned, the i730 seems exciting because I wonder how much better it will be in the second generation (and Palm still hasn't gotten off the ground with an SD card...)
    Huh??? You are the brokenest record I e'er heard!! WTF DO YOU OWN A PALM FOR, SLINKY?? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!??!?! GET THE HECK OUTTA HERE ALREADY!!
  4. jstpa's Avatar
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    #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    ...EVDO will let calls come through when you are actively surfing the web? I thought that it wasnt that way...at least not yet?
    ...
    It will. The problem arises when you get out of an EVDO area and you go into 1x. Then it won't let calls come through.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    ...Worst case scenario...I will carry a wifi sd card with me.
    I had thought I had seen one of those, marketed by Palm. But I couldn't find it when I searched.
  5. #145  
    wifi is quite useless IMO, at least it doesn't worth the money (say $50) to implement it in the phone. My reason being for 80% of the place you have access to free wifi, you have access to a real computer. I mean why use your phone to get online at home that's just silly.
    If the money to implement wifi can be spent to put GPS in the phone I much rather to have the GPS.
    If what you want to do is wardriving, which sound like you are you are better off with a linux device like the Sharp c3100 or one of those Moto Chinese phones. There are so much more wardriving tools on Linux.

    Sandisk is discontinuing the SD wifi card because there is very few demand for it.
    Last edited by whatever7; 07/28/2005 at 07:48 AM.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I can understand that, but if I use it at school or work, why not charge it when needed? If you didnt have the charger available, then I can understand the limited use.
    So you can get voice calls while you are using the wifi or no?
    That does suck. Sounds like a pretty good limitation...hopefully it will be fixed.
    Well, its still pretty new. Most PPC folks tend to find ways to hack the registry it to get it to where they want. (Hobbes comes to mind.)
    If you have a charger readily available most of the time, then definitely, the battery issue is not much to be concerned with. When it does become a concern is when travelling, that's when I use my smartphone the most and when I'm glad I can leave the laptop behind. However, if the battery can't last a day of heavy use during those occassions, that really puts a cap on any benefits the I730 brings to the table.

    Yes, you can get voice calls while using wifi. Suerpdave at pdaphonehome.com is currently hacking this phone. After applying his registry modification, turning on wifi still disables the voice radio but then simply turn the voice radio back on and wifi will remain on as well. The fix is still a bit buggy as its not working for everyone but I'm sure he'll come up with a more elegant solution that works for all.

    I agree the I730 is still very new and with people like Superdave on the case, I have no doubt he will be able to unleash the full power of this phone so that people can use it as they see fit and without the restrictions/crippling Verizon has applied to this device. However, despite the significant upgrades this device offers over the 650, I can't get past some of its shortcomings , which for me are at the core of this device and affect some of the major functionality I value the most in any smartphone device, and I just don't have the time to wait for someone to eventually come up with a fix for this. To those who do have the time to really learn and work with the device, as long as they can get past its shortcomings, I think in the end, they will be very happy with the phone and all it can do.
  7. jlczl's Avatar
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    #147  
    Wouldn't it be nice if we could at least get drivers to have wi-fi as an option with a wi-fi sd card? All those who don't need wi-fi wouldn't have battery issues, etc. but those of us who would like to have it, could. Why does Palm REFUSE TO RELEASE DRIVERS FOE THE TREO EVENTHOUGH THEY HAVE DONE SO FOR OTHER PALM MODELS!! That is what infuriates me.
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

    Be very, very quiet. I'm gonna catch me a rhinoceros.
  8. slinky's Avatar
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    #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    wifi is quite useless IMO, at least it doesn't worth the money (say $50) to implement it in the phone. My reason being for 80% of the place you have access to free wifi, you have access to a real computer. I mean why use your phone to get online at home that's just silly.
    If the money to implement wifi can be spent to put GPS in the phone I much rather to have the GPS..... Sandisk is discontinuing the SD wifi card because there is very few demand for it.
    If you read the thread, you'll see plenty of uses for WiFi although it might not be a benefit just for you. "Getting online at home" is mostly a reverse DUN bluetooth connection benefit and several of us have the same the knock. It just amazes me that most of the WiFi trashers are consistently those complaining it isn't free... as if it should be, like 1XRTT or EVDO.

    Regarding the Sandisk WiFi card, Treocentral reports that PDA sales are dropping quickly in favor of PDA phones. Since Palm refuses to provide anyone with the information necessary to release WiFi drivers for an SD card for its hottest selling device, many of which who shell out that kind of money would purchase a WiFi card. If WiFi was such a disinterest than the latest phones wouldn't have had it in there and Shadowmite's hack thread wouldn't have been so popular.... as jlczl asks, why hasn't Palm released the WiFi drivers alread? My guess... contractual relationships and the PPC manufacturers are able to get first crack at this and Treo owners are stuck...
  9. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #149  
    The i730 has wifi built in. The HTC Magician (the next version of the JAM) will have a keyboard and wifi b/g!! IMO Palm has no choice but to include wifi in its next Treo, or be seen as "a day late and a dollar short" again.
  10. slinky's Avatar
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    #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Sorry folks...I can't resist the temptation!!! He's just burying himself deeper and deeper. Apparently you don't use it on your phone/pda, do ya?? How are you living without it if it's so important to your real world? SOO...WHY DON'T YOU SWITCH CARRIERS, SLINKY?? STILL WAITIN' FOR THAT ANSWER!! Any organization that's deploying many of these devices wouldn't be paying $45, now would they?? They'd go straight to Sprint...cut a deal to pay $10/mo, or LESS, even!!
    OK, if you insist on embarassing yourself further and for the sake of ceasing your ranting in this thread, here are a few obvious answers as to why I can't switch carriers that go right over your head because they just don't apply to you:
    (1) I have a contract that is currently keeping me with Verizon
    (2) I have a good number of family members in contracts with Verizon and losing the mobile to mobile minutes will cost everyone, not just me... also coverage issues at home for certain family members with Sprint
    (3) I have insurance on my Treo 650 that I will not get if I switch to Sprint
    (4) I'm not so keen on hacking my Verizon phone to work with Sprint (lesser but still a reason)
    (5) No big NY corporation is subsidizing my personal phone like you think they all do so $45 hits me on top of the other expenses we have here

    ... homeslice! EV-DO would be the appropriate solution also if you're willing to shell out a few more bucks a month. $30/mo ain't that bad if you have access to it. If you do any sort of traveling out of your home area, you're not going to be getting WiFi, slinky!! What are you not understanding about this. You might be able to get WiFi at some hotels...but don't you have a laptop for traveling purposes?? I understand that you want your phone to take the place of your laptop...but it's not going to replace a 12+" screen and a full-size keyboard!! ...What happens if the hotel you're staying at doesn't have WiFi?? Oops...you can't get online...but I can!! haahahahahhahahahah!!
    With unlimited money, nobody cares genius. In addition, why don't you start traveling out of your town before you start making absurd, ludicrous conclusions that EVDO and regular cell service is available *everywhere*and also same cost and that WiFi isn't available at most hotels. You've already heard but not accepted that two star hotels like the Holiday Inn Express even have them. Sorry, but WiFi might not be available at youth hostels and it "prolly" won't be free like EVDO is for you. But wait... you said I should use my laptop when I travel. Aren't you the guy advocating parents to buy Treo 650s for their 13 year olds because they can type like lightning with the thumbpad or external keyboard, do papers and research and leap tall buildings in a single bound when he goes on frequent road trips? When I'm on the move, mostly what I and many need is email access and some surfing capabilities. Editing docs using Word To Go is a nice extra and I can view all the attachments on my Treo just like you said the 13 year old can do...

    Huh??? You are the brokenest record I e'er heard!! WTF DO YOU OWN A PALM FOR, SLINKY?? WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS!??!?! GET THE HECK OUTTA HERE ALREADY!!
    Just can it already and your foul mouth. I'm not intimidated by one egocentric loudmouth who suffers from an inferiority complex any time someone insults his Treo or mentions the word "size." Right now I, like many here, have a large investment in Palm software which began when you were still wetting yourself. As you don't read, many of us are reconsidering our options once the second generation of the i730s are out, replete with WiFi options, LOADS of RAM and storage space. Sorry, I wasn't so impressed as you that the 650 got a new screen, removable battery (wowsa) and not much more. Instead of trying so hard to flame me, why don't you do yourself a favor and ask "veterans" like Shadowmite why he spent so much time trying to hack WiFi drivers for the Treo if WiFi was as worthless as you insist?

    To the moderators and to you, I'm not responding to your profane posts and they will be ignored.

    I thank Samsung for the i730 profusely because if it isn't the solution it may be the second time around and, regardless, it will force Palm to either put up or dry up.
  11. #151  
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  12. jstpa's Avatar
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    #152  
    Beautiful.
  13. #153  
    Soo...now that that's over (thanks Insertion, your prayers have been answered), can anybody tell me how the i730 stores memory when the battery is removed?? NVFS or internal battery?
  14. slinky's Avatar
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    #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    Beautiful.
    Total wit. And as if your "mark of approval" wasn't even more wasted bandwidth...

    Regarding the NVFS question, I was reading something here that mentioned the functional equivalent of a backup battery in most PPC phones:

    http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/showthread/t-46636.html
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Soo...now that that's over (thanks Insertion, your prayers have been answered), can anybody tell me how the i730 stores memory when the battery is removed?? NVFS or internal battery?
    There are 3 storage mediums: Volatile memory, Safestore (a NVFS-type memory), and external (SD Card). The volatile memory will poof up to a couple of hours after you remove the battery (or during a hard reset) when the backup battery dies. The other memory types are non-volatile. Most programs run from Safestore/the SD Card. Those programs that do not run from Safestore/SD Card (or certain data files) can be restored via the i730s integrated Sprite Backup program. This is the required memory configuration for WM5 in which the volatile memory contains only running processes and all programs/data run from Safestore or external storage.
  16. jstpa's Avatar
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    #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    ...And as if your "mark of approval" wasn't even more wasted bandwidth...
    Ah, a compliment ... from a master of the art.
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    There are 3 storage mediums: Volatile memory, Safestore (a NVFS-type memory), and external (SD Card). The volatile memory will poof up to a couple of hours after you remove the battery (or during a hard reset) when the backup battery dies. The other memory types are non-volatile. Most programs run from Safestore/the SD Card. Those programs that do not run from Safestore/SD Card (or certain data files) can be restored via the i730s integrated Sprite Backup program. This is the required memory configuration for WM5 in which the volatile memory contains only running processes and all programs/data run from Safestore or external storage.
    I don't think you mean that most programs "run" from Safestore/the SD Card...but are stored there, sure.

    It sounds like it's pretty damn similar to the 650. Except the i730 also has a capacitor. But why would it need a capacitor with this Safestore thing?? How exactly is Safestore different from plain ol' NVFS?
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't think you mean that most programs "run" from Safestore/the SD Card...but are stored there, sure.
    True enough. I don't run my desktop programs on my hard drive either, but I do run them from my hard drive. Same concept for Safestore.
    It sounds like it's pretty damn similar to the 650. Except the i730 also has a capacitor.
    No, it has a backup battery (from previous post).
    But why would it need a capacitor with this Safestore thing??
    The backup battery gives you a chance to hook up to a power source/replace the battery without losing volatile memory. A small insurance plan.
    How exactly is Safestore different from plain ol' NVFS?
    Technically, I can't say. Functionally, it appears to be the same.
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