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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    First off, at what cost will evdo run the end user? (Much more than what wifi will...especially for those that have wireless networks readily available ).
    I couldn't tell you as I'm not paying for EV-DO 'til it's below $20/mo. But I'd expect it to be $25-30/mo within the next two years...maybe sooner, who knows?? Just depends on the market, I guess. My question is, if you don't live or spend several hours of a day inside a large infrastructure of WiFi...and don't have a PC right next to you...why would you want wifi on your Treo. Slinky's still yet to come up with examples other than the ones that I stated which are niches of niches. Small numbers of people who want a Treo would have a REAL use for WiFi...sure it might come in handy once a year...but there are perfectly good alternatives to WiFi...such as the carrier's data plans, and the Linksys USBBT100 which gets several hundred feet of rang.e

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Second, are you comparing your connection speed on wifi on your pc at home versus what a treo will do? I'm no expert but one of the reasons why a pc on wifi will 'surf' better is because of the processor and ram advantage over a handheld (even if the throughput is the same)?
    I'm not sure what your question is in reference to. I'm saying that EV-DO is faster than what most people experience with broadband. What I'm saying is that wires are holding us back!! Let go and free your minds!!
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You seem to ignore facts when they don't jive with your viewpoint. Palm itself is touting WiFi for the LifeDrive as a solution that has nothing to do with the two major categories that you believe are the only environs for which WiFi is a benefit to any device, phone, PDA or both.
    What exactly is it that I'm ignoring?? There's no need for WiFi in a device that has cellular capabilities. I can do everything that you can do with a handheld and WiFi and then more when it really counts which is all the time...not just when I'm in range of a hotspot. And it's not like I don't want it...again, I'm saying that Palm ain't puttin' it in there for some a few people that live and die by these large WiFi infrastructures. It's not practical to use NYC as an example, because it's not a consistent network. Until I hear anybody other than slinky tell me that they can roll down the block while streaming a movie....I'm not seeing how having spotty hotspots is that beneficial to the majority of the people who are buying this phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    "Stay connected at any of the over 80,000 public Wi-Fi hotspots in popular hotels, cafes and airports2 around the world. Access your POP, IMAP and Exchange email accounts3 with the included VersaMail® email client. Download your latest calendar appointments from the office."
    Did you think I didn't read that the first time around?? I CAN GET DATA IN THOSE HOSPOTS AND THEN MORE!!! I CAN USE BLUETOOTH DUN TO GET BROADBAND-LIKE SPEEDS WHILE USING FIREFOX AND TABS!! If you understood how to use tabs properly...you'd understand that the only real benefit of data-intensive connections are quick downloads of large multimedia and applications...that's it, really. Excluding that...I can do everything you want to do with WiFi ANYWHERE in the country for a mere $10/mo (you're still ignoring my comments about you selling your Verizon 650 and buying a Sprint 650). The times that I find my phone most useful are whenever I'm in the middle of nowhere...I'm sure you've already found times when your dataless Treo could have gotten you out of a jam.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Why are you comparing non-PDA phones to phones that are also supposed to be a well functioning PDA? If you want to compare it to the PPC, then we are talking about a factor of over two to four times the overall storage.
    That's my point, though...PPC devices need more RAM because their applications require much more code. It's the nature of the beast. Palm apps are simple and don't require that much memory. Have you really not figured out your RAM situation yet?? Or are you just trying to stir up hot air?

    And BTW, I'm NOT comparing non-PDA phones to phones that are also supposed to be a well functioning PDA. I'm comparing non-PDA phones to the best SMARTPHONE on the market. That's what the general public wants is a PHONE, which the Treo 650 most assuredly is. The i730 and its buddies still have a ways to go before people mistake those "well functioning PDAs" for SMARTPHONES.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    For the hundredth time and from other users with the same gripe here, the 22.4MB of usable RAM in the Treo 650 was a huge, intentional mistake. Accept it. Virtually every review of the 650 states exactly the same. You CANNOT put all the apps on the SD card and irrespective of being able to put some of them on there, it is still an incredible hassle to keep 4-5MB of RAM free at minimum to ensure most applications run smoothly. I spend so much damn time moving things around as databases grow that I get more tempted to look at the new PPC devices that come out.
    Hmm....huge mistake? Definitely not! Intentional mistake? I hope not...'cause that's an oxymoron. But I certainly hope they hadn't planned on putting 64 megs in there, but all the assembly lines f***ed it all up for Palm.

    And of course reviews have got to come up with something to dislike about the phone, otherwise they wouldn't be doing their job...but how many people are really bothered by it (polls have come and gone and it was a small number, slinky). Prolly the same people who would be bothered with 64megs and 128megs, even. They're called POWER USERS...for them, there are programs such as PowerRun, LinkStart, and Launchers such as ZLauncher to help them run apps from their 1 or 2 gig cards.

    As for you being tempted to look at PPC devices...I hope it's sooner than later.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I won't quote your comments about how Palm can be out of whack and will let you read the Brighthand article amongst others that delve into details of how Palm/PalmOne/Handspring or whatever they will be called now have been blowing a good thing with their continued lack of focus.
    Do people actually still read Brighthand?? I think that site sucks, personally...but anyway, I checked out that link on Brighthand about Palm "losing focus" and it was based on speculation as to whether it would be a good business decision to buy PalmSource or not. It had nothing to do with the hardware company of Palm....it was the business aspect of Palm. And quite frankly...I don't care what they do as long as I get my Palm Linux in the next two Treo revisions. Whenever you pull some stuff like that, it makes me wonder what you were doing with a 600 in the first place.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    What does the WiFi being free have to do with anything? Verizon's Internet access costs $45 per month for slow access and limited ONLY to my phone. For $20 per month, at most, I'd have a solution for my phone AND my laptop. This has been mentioned many times before and if you don't believe me, Palm or anyone else, go to boingo.com, surfandsip, just to name a few of the WiFi providers you don't know about outside of the WiFi equipped college campus.
    Umm...because I only pay $10/mo. And nobody's forcing you to stick with Verizon are they? Didn't you get your phone for free?? Switch on over any day now! And I don't live on a WiFi equipped campus...I was giving an example. I was rackin' my brain to come up with the MAJORITY of reasons a WiFi enabled cell phone would be practical...college campuses, businesses, and the government all happened to be the majority...which is a minority as far as Palm's concerned. They're trying to market the best smartphone possible...to the most carriers...for the largest number people...while making as much money as they can. Wouldn't you agree??

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You actually think that Starbucks is charging for Internet access to stop loitering? Is this more "common sense and acquired knowledge?" First of all, it is TMobile that is charging for Internet access and did it dawn on you that the purpose was as another major revenue generator as a result of this partnership? The loitering solution you suggest is downright *hilarious.* Instead of reading about reality in Slashdot (now there's a great source), experience reality in person. For every person with a laptop in the dozens of Starbucks here there are a dozen non-equipped loiterers. If Starbucks was concerned about it they would have hired bouncers years ago and been dumping people on the streets every half hour. ROFL...
    Umm...you got too much of a kick out of something I didn't say. I didn't say it was there sole reason for charging, ball sweat... If I were going to make my posts as dynamic as possible, I'd never get any sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You can't have it both ways. If WiFi was only important to college kids with a WiFi enabled campus and some corporations that had WiFi in their office, then why is Palm making it a big deal to put it in advertising? Because WiFi is a huge draw to far more people than you are willing to accept. BlueTooth is not WiFi and it will never be a substitute.
    Heh...you're friggin' ridiculous. They market devices with WiFi because they're trying to make money. Were you really that incompetent that you couldn't answer your own question? But They're not going ot spend extra money on adding WiFi chips to the Treo and sacraficing WiFi SD-card/sled addons, and the next reason to upgrade to the Treo 800. I'm not talking about this anymore, but I will most definitely bet you $100 that WiFi's not going to make it into the next Treo. You on, hotspot?

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    You simply ignore everyone else's concerns and options because you can get your emails for $10 at your single location. Considering that you've never used commercially available WiFi, MS Exchange, VPN, VOIP and numerous other communications technologies, I find it amusing that you are the self ordained authority on the topic with regard to mobile devices.
    I'm not ignoring anything...but what makes you think that mobile devices must have WiFi? Are you sure that your opinion isn't an opinion, either. I'm stating observations that I've seen in the marketplace...and that Palm isn't going to put WiFi in the next device. I certainly wouldn't mind if they did...excluding that $100 that I'd be out if you decided to take the bet.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Yes, the thread is about the i730 and what it brings to the table. As much as I want to have enthusiasm about the Treo and the future I'm finding it more and more compelling to watch the news about the i730 and Motorola's new device which have bridged the gap. WiFi is a big deal but equally as important is the power and storage that these units have. I'm not yet ready to trade in my Treo 650 but if things progress like they are, I won't be using the 650 much longer. Considering that this is Samsung's first release in its first month, it's impressive. For all Palm's experience the difference between the 600 and 650 is pathetic. One thing is certain -- it's going to be a very interesting 6-8 months to follow...
    How many more people need to come on here and tell you the i730 still isn't as good as a Treo before you recognize the Treo as the best?? How exactly do you call the jump from the 600 to the 650 pathetic?? I definitely agree that they didn't try the new NVFS in real situations before they handed 'em out....but they made a ton of upgrades from the 600. You cwazee.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I couldn't tell you as I'm not paying for EV-DO 'til it's below $20/mo.
    I don't know if it will get that low, but thats about what I would like to pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    But I'd expect it to be $25-30/mo within the next two years...maybe sooner, who knows?? Just depends on the market, I guess.
    But I don't want to wait that long to have faster data rates on my treo. IMO Wifi could happen in the next upgrade if the carriers could see that I would still pay for vision and want the wifi option (IMO, those that would not have a data plan because they could use wifi all the time would be very small.)

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    My question is, if you don't live or spend several hours of a day inside a large infrastructure of WiFi...and don't have a PC right next to you...why would you want wifi on your Treo.
    I cant speak for others, but I have wifi at school at at home. The biggest reason I want wifi is the speed v. just surfing on vision and (unless I'm wrong about this) the ability to be actively surfing the web and still be able to get calls to come through. Im on sprint, and it bugs me when I get the VM notification because Im on TC reading and posting messages

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Slinky's still yet to come up with examples other than the ones that I stated which are niches of niches. Small numbers of people who want a Treo would have a REAL use for WiFi...sure it might come in handy once a year...but there are perfectly good alternatives to WiFi...such as the carrier's data plans, and the Linksys USBBT100 which gets several hundred feet of rang.e
    I agree that there are alternatives...however where I am in the OC, WAN is starting to take hold. They will soon be offering it in a huge triangle in Newport Beach for instance. My point is that its an option...why not include it with the next treo. Will most use wifi instead of vision or EV-DO? No, probably not. But give me the option.

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm not sure what your question is in reference to. I'm saying that EV-DO is faster than what most people experience with broadband. What I'm saying is that wires are holding us back!! Let go and free your minds!!
    EV-DO is faster but does that actually equate to a faster experience (hypothetically) on a treo that has evdo and has wifi? I would think that wifi would be faster (and much cheaper) than evdo on the treo. Thats my point.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I don't know if it will get that low, but thats about what I would like to pay.
    There's no doubt that the price will fall...the only question is when will it get that low or lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    But I don't want to wait that long to have faster data rates on my treo. IMO Wifi could happen in the next upgrade if the carriers could see that I would still pay for vision and want the wifi option (IMO, those that would not have a data plan because they could use wifi all the time would be very small.)
    I don't blame you...I want a lotta stuff, too. I want a terabyte of flash memory on my phone with a 7MP camera, WiMax, EV-DV, and UWB all in a clamshell device. Sometimes you've just gotta have patience...

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I cant speak for others, but I have wifi at school at at home. The biggest reason I want wifi is the speed v. just surfing on vision and (unless I'm wrong about this) the ability to be actively surfing the web and still be able to get calls to come through. Im on sprint, and it bugs me when I get the VM notification because Im on TC reading and posting messages
    Well...there's more important things to do at school besides surf, like learning [non-tech related material] for example. At home you're perfectly capable of wirelessly receiving broadband speeds on your Treo - it's called bluetooth!! But I'm sure that after you bought the Linksys USBBT100 ($45 for 700 feet radius) and got everything set up to use reverse DUN at your home....you'd still prefer to browse the web on a real pc with a real monitor and a real keyboard. They Treo's more useful whenever you're away from PCs in general - it's a backup.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I agree that there are alternatives...however where I am in the OC, WAN is starting to take hold. They will soon be offering it in a huge triangle in Newport Beach for instance. My point is that its an option...why not include it with the next treo. Will most use wifi instead of vision or EV-DO? No, probably not. But give me the option.
    The reason to not include wifi with the next Treo is called capitalism. Palm wants to make money, and they (or at least this is them through me) believe they'll make more money not putting wifi in this device. If you don't like what Palm offers, don't buy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    EV-DO is faster but does that actually equate to a faster experience (hypothetically) on a treo that has evdo and has wifi? I would think that wifi would be faster (and much cheaper) than evdo on the treo. Thats my point.
    OK...so you're comparing a Treo with EV-DO and a Treo with WiFi, right?? Well...the reason that EV-DO would equate to a hypothetically, theoretically, and quiteactually faster experience is because your wireless router only serves up data as fast as your broadband provider (DSL, Cable) can provide you with. For example, I can only get 400kbps on a good day with my cable provider!!! With the right technology (EV-DO) and a long-range star topology (a bunch of people connecting to one access point...AKA a cellular tower)....greater speeds can be reached than what you'll see with WiFi!! WiFi may claim 54MEGAWATTS of surfing experience...but you only use the tiniest fraction of that in the real world.

    SUMMARY: WiFi ain't crap. In 3 more years EV-DO will be a mature, cheaper, faster, and more useful solution than WiFi. The city of Philidelphia is attempting to build an entire city blanketed with WiFi (how that's working out for them, I have no idea as I'm a southern boy)...but in 3 more years we'll also start seeing WiMax towers that provide WiFi speeds at a range comparable to EV-DO towers. So....you've got multiple LONG-RANGE technologies coming out in just a couple more years that make WiFi look like poo.

    If you can't wait a couple years then follow these instructions:
    (1) make sure you have sprint and pay for their $10/mo data service
    (2) go buy the Linksys USBBT100 and take it with you between home/work/school/whatever.
    (2) If you need it for hotspots...bring your laptop with you!! If you stay at a hotspot everyday...toss your laptop with bluetooth adapter in a backpack and close the lid! You can get wifi speeds anywhere you take your Treo (provided you place your backpack within six or seven hundred feet of where you are...and obviously make sure it's a safe hiding spot too.)

    The best part of all this bluetooth stuff is that THERE'S NO WAITING...the capability is already in your cell phone and you can experience these great things it has to offer you TODAY!! No waiting, no battery drain, and no more upgrading to another Treo......so simple! Bluetooth...hmmph...who woulda thunkt it belonged on cell phones??
  6. jstpa's Avatar
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    #126  
    Is it possible to un-hijack this thread? It was about the Treo 650 and the i730. Real comparisons of real products.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    Is it possible to un-hijack this thread? It was about the Treo 650 and the i730. Real comparisons of real products.
    I will try to talk more in terms of what we have now and not what we want/think we will have 2-3 years from now. (Plus I mention the 730 a couple of times. )
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    There's no doubt that the price will fall...the only question is when will it get that low or lower.
    The key word being...WHEN.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I don't blame you...I want a lotta stuff, too. I want a terabyte of flash memory on my phone with a 7MP camera, WiMax, EV-DV, and UWB all in a clamshell device. Sometimes you've just gotta have patience...
    Most of the things you mention will take patience. Wifi on the next treo can be done by fall (assuming that they want to). Patience is a non factor. Also, I don't think that product manufactures put too much faith in the word patience. If they do not offer it, usually the market dictates that someone else will (i.e. the 730). According to your estimates (see below) I am going to have to be patient for 2-3 years...why? Wifi is now. (Plus you never did help me with my problem with just having ev-do and having calls go straight to voicemail? Am I going to be out of luck on that one?)
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Well...there's more important things to do at school besides surf, like learning [non-tech related material] for example.
    Hmm... thats quite assuming of you. Im not trying to be too sarcastic but you do realize that the internet (and most higher learning facilities) encourage the use of the internet for learning and researching (in my situation...law cases).
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    At home you're perfectly capable of wirelessly receiving broadband speeds on your Treo - it's called bluetooth!! But I'm sure that after you bought the Linksys USBBT100 ($45 for 700 feet radius) and got everything set up to use reverse DUN at your home....you'd still prefer to browse the web on a real pc with a real monitor and a real keyboard. They Treo's more useful whenever you're away from PCs in general - it's a backup.
    Reverse DUN would work for home but what about when I am out and about? And like you said...if I bother to do all of that...why not just fire up the pc?
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    For example, I can only get 400kbps on a good day with my cable provider!!! With the right technology (EV-DO) and a long-range star topology (a bunch of people connecting to one access point...AKA a cellular tower)....greater speeds can be reached than what you'll see with WiFi!! WiFi may claim 54MEGAWATTS of surfing experience...but you only use the tiniest fraction of that in the real world.
    Again...we have to keep things in context. What is available now...not 2-3 years from now. (I don't want to wait to upgrade for that long on the theory that EV-DO will put wifi to bed.)
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    SUMMARY: WiFi ain't crap. In 3 more years EV-DO will be a mature, cheaper, faster, and more useful solution than WiFi.
    It may be but the keyword (as noted above) is when. The 730 offers it now.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    If you can't wait a couple years then follow these instructions:
    I like the instructions but I got a convergence device in part to carry less things with me...not more.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Bluetooth...hmmph...who woulda thunkt it belonged on cell phones??
    Im not sure how you got the idea that I was hostile to bluetooth? I have no issue with bluetooth. I just dont see that many hotspots that support it.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  8. slinky's Avatar
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Most of the things you mention will take patience. Wifi on the next treo can be done by fall... ... If they do not offer it, usually the market dictates that someone else will (i.e. the 730). According to your estimates (see below) I am going to have to be patient for 2-3 years...why? Wifi is now.
    Exactly -- the i730 is NOW which is why this thread interests me. I'm getting impatient with Palm. While I've tried having a conversation about this, I've come to the conclusion that grndslm unfortunately only sees things in terms of what works for him in Mississippi. Since he gets Internet access at $10 on Sprint and has no use for the joys of what WiFi provides for millions of others, he can't perceive the benefits. This post of his says it all -- he blasts WiFi as being useless, says EVDO is a better solution (but doesn't understand it is a different technology), mocks the city of Philadelphia for their multimillion dollar WiFi effort -- and then says he has no idea how well it's working and is just "a southern boy." It just amazes me that he doesn't want to know how well it's working and how all these technologies are working for other people in other parts of the country.

    He also refuses to understand that WiFi and EVDO are completely different technologies with different uses. At the very basic level EVDO requires you to always go through your provider to access the Internet or your private networks, such as what you, me and millions of others do every day at home with their WiFi router, at work, at school, and at over 80,000 locations around the world. He also doesn't see the VOIP revolution and what a boon it is to have your phone double as a WiFi phone. Instead, he talks about new technologies years away and as though current investment in the WiFi infrastructure will just magically disappear.... it's not worth having the conversation if it's always a one way street with a person with admittedly limited knowledge and exposure doing all the dictating.

    "SUMMARY: WiFi ain't crap. In 3 more years EV-DO will be a mature, cheaper, faster, and more useful solution than WiFi. The city of Philidelphia is attempting to build an entire city blanketed with WiFi (how that's working out for them, I have no idea as I'm a southern boy)..."

    Reverse DUN would work for home but what about when I am out and about? And like you said...if I bother to do all of that...why not just fire up the pc?
    Again, this only works for grndslm. His answer is EVDO for everything instead of WiFi. Not only will it cost you $40-80 per month for the next 2-3 years but in many cases, this cost is not necessary. If you want WiFi like speeds, his solution always requires a PC nearby with a broadband connection or paying for EVDO. Glad he's got the cash to blow.

    A significant number just need to send/receive their email at WiFi hotspots. No need to spend on EVDO and it will be used by those who really need that kind of convenience and have the money to shell out every month. Bluetooth is a convenience that never took off for very good reasons and reverse DUN is a way of using your device as if you had a WiFi enabled device like dozens of other PDAs -- including the i730.

    I like the instructions but I got a convergence device in part to carry less things with me...not more. Im not sure how you got the idea that I was hostile to bluetooth? I have no issue with bluetooth. I just dont see that many hotspots that support it.
    It seems that anyone who really has little use for bluetooth is hostile to the idea. It only has a small place, mostly for headsets. Regarding adapters, read all the posts at Amazon and elsewhere -- it's not plug and play and right now many will find performing reverse DUN and other features to be a bit of a challenge out of the box. That's just an unfortunate fact. Again, remembering that you're trying to reason with a guy who refuses to admit that the 32 MB RAM non-upgrade from the Treo 600 was fine for 95% of users and that 64 MB or RAM at this day and age is only for PPCs because Palm apps are just so small and "simple"... not worth it. A conversation goes two ways.

    Regarding the i730, which is what we are talking about, I took a good look at the Verizion Wireless store. The WiFi has been discussed and is a major pro to have in the device. The keyboard is quite good although I didn't find it a breeze to press the buttons on the sides of the slide out because of a ridge in the keyboard. Still nicely built. Screen looks good and the resolution is more than fine and nice to have that long a screen for viewing more and reading documents. Would prefer higher resolution but I think that will be utilized by the next generation of software and that's what we'll see in the next device.

    Build quality is pretty good. As much as the Treo 650 was cheapened by those cheapo side buttons, the build quality is good and on par with the 600. I'd say it's better than the i730 although the i730 is acceptable and far superior to the 6600 which is a piece of plastic. Buttons were well placed and of reasonable quality, far superior to the 6600. Operation still suffers the same PPC limitations but the phone book but one handed operation seems to be improved. Didn't test battery life but size is really fantastic on the i730, especially with the standard battery. The extended battery adds bulk, not horrible but does remove the wonderful sleekness of the device.

    Overall, I like the form factor and my familiarity of my Treo. Not sure how I'd feel getting a new phone and may still prefer the 650 for now... but this is a great first generation device. Palm (or whatever they are called) better consider giving purchasers more bang for their buck on their next version and more improvements than the slight enhancements of the 600 to the 650.

    PS - I'm very familiar with legal research.
  9. #129  
    Good points Slinky.

    On a different but related note. I think Darnell brought this question up in another thread but I will do it here as well; why is it that verizon is offering a wifi enabled phone and the other carriers arent? Is it because its on the PPC/MS platform and not the Palm. Is Palm the limitation? It doesnt seem like it because you have wireless palms.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  10. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Exactly -- the i730 is NOW which is why this thread interests me. I'm getting impatient with Palm.
    Soo...why do you still own a Palm? JUMP SHIP, MATEY! If you NEED i730...you would have gotten rid of the 650 already.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    While I've tried having a conversation about this, I've come to the conclusion that grndslm unfortunately only sees things in terms of what works for him in Mississippi.
    I NEVER BASED ANY OF MY STATEMENTS ON WHAT WORKS FOR ME....I'VE REPEATEDLY STATED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, SLINKY, THAT PALM IS GOING TO DO WHAT MAKES THEM THE MOST MONEY!!! AND NOT PUTTING WIFI IN THIS NEXT TREO IS GOING TO BE IT!!! IF THEY PUT WIFI IN THERE, I'D GLADLY TAKE IT AND USE IT, ALTHOUGH VERY SELDOM! I LOVE HOW YOU IGNORED THAT BET ABOUT PALM ADDING WIFI TO THE NEXT TREO OR NOT...ARE YOU WILLING TO BET ME THAT $100 OR NOT???

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Since he gets Internet access at $10 on Sprint and has no use for the joys of what WiFi provides for millions of others, he can't perceive the benefits.
    You still never answered me as to why you don't sell your Verizon 650 and buy a Sprint 650. You tend to leave many of my questions for you unanswered.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    He also refuses to understand that WiFi and EVDO are completely different technologies with different uses....He also doesn't see the VOIP revolution and what a boon it is to have your phone double as a WiFi phone.
    When exactly did I confuse the two technologies?? And when did I ever say I didn't recognize the VoIP revolution....I've subscribed to Packet8 for over a year now. I said that VoIP ain't happenin' on a Palm device 'til PalmSource releases Palm Linux...so stop asking for it in the next version of the Treo!!! Can't you read??

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Instead, he talks about new technologies years away and as though current investment in the WiFi infrastructure will just magically disappear....
    YEARS AWAY???? EV-DO is already available in MAJOR cities such as your own, slinkster! And WiMax isn't going to be that much longer...we should start seeing real products come to market within a year. WiMax is what's REALLY going to start the VoIP revolution because companies like Vonage and Packet8 have no idea to market a great product to average Americans.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    it's not worth having the conversation if it's always a one way street with a person with admittedly limited knowledge and exposure doing all the dictating.
    No kidding....I'm not sure why I continue responding to you. I really wish you would get the hell outta NYC sometimes....you're just as arrogant as the the rest of the folks from NYC!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Again, this only works for grndslm. His answer is EVDO for everything instead of WiFi. Not only will it cost you $40-80 per month for the next 2-3 years but in many cases, this cost is not necessary. If you want WiFi like speeds, his solution always requires a PC nearby with a broadband connection or paying for EVDO. Glad he's got the cash to blow.
    THIS JUST IN -- SPRINT CHARGES $30/MO FOR EV-DO ENABLED PHONES!!! That's not expensive at all. Especially considering you can get twice the speed that most receive with broadband at a cheaper cost!!! Don't you want to switch to Sprint yet??

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    A significant number just need to send/receive their email at WiFi hotspots. No need to spend on EVDO and it will be used by those who really need that kind of convenience and have the money to shell out every month.
    The people who own this phone use their cellular carrier's data plan for email - not wifi!!! Why would you want to be limited to where you can receive your email if it's so important to you???

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    It seems that anyone who really has little use for bluetooth is hostile to the idea. It only has a small place, mostly for headsets.
    I'm convinced you have a learning disability.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Again, remembering that you're trying to reason with a guy who refuses to admit that the 32 MB RAM non-upgrade from the Treo 600 was fine for 95% of users and that 64 MB or RAM at this day and age is only for PPCs because Palm apps are just so small and "simple"... not worth it.
    Well...it's a fact that most people have gotten around the RAM issue, otherwise they would have converted already. I'm still waiting on your response to what your RAM problem is...I've got like 70+ apps on my phone and have no problems with the amount of RAM at all. I have plenty of RAM left over actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    A conversation goes two ways.
    Derr....except with Slinky. Things have to be repeated several times before he finally picks it up; must have a selective reading problem. I hope you're a better listener in person.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Regarding the i730, which is what we are talking about, I took a good look at the Verizion Wireless store. The WiFi has been discussed and is a major pro to have in the device. The keyboard is quite good although I didn't find it a breeze to press the buttons on the sides of the slide out because of a ridge in the keyboard. Still nicely built. Screen looks good and the resolution is more than fine and nice to have that long a screen for viewing more and reading documents.
    Why haven't you switched already then?

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Build quality is pretty good. As much as the Treo 650 was cheapened by those cheapo side buttons, the build quality is good and on par with the 600.
    Do your side buttons not work or something? I don't understand what your problem with them is.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I'd say it's better than the i730 although the i730 is acceptable and far superior to the 6600 which is a piece of plastic.
    How can you comment on a reliability factor if you haven't actually USED it. Just 'cause you glanced at it in the store doesn't prove anything about build quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Overall, I like the form factor and my familiarity of my Treo.
    This is my whole point slinky...the form factor is everything! Well, at least a good bit of why people love this phone...it looks like a phone, feels like a phone, acts better than a phone. PPC phones still have a ways to go.
  11. jstpa's Avatar
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    #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Good points Slinky.

    On a different but related note. I think Darnell brought this question up in another thread but I will do it here as well; why is it that verizon is offering a wifi enabled phone and the other carriers arent? Is it because its on the PPC/MS platform and not the Palm. Is Palm the limitation? It doesnt seem like it because you have wireless palms.

    All is not hunky-dory in wifi land with the i730.

    http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/showt...914#post373914

    Also, wifi is apparently a huge battery pig - further impairing the PPC's already anemic battery life. VZW altered the device to shut down the phone while wifi is on in order to preserve battery life.

    I really don't need wifi on the phone. EVDO is entirely adequate unless I'm in a wifi enabled bunker. Also an EVDO data connection will let phone calls through, while wifi will not.

    Finally, i recall that palm or somebody is coming out with a wifi sled for the 600 - with a separate power source. Because of the power requirements?
  12. #133  
    As for t2gungho...if you need a WiFi enabled device....use your laptop or get a PPC if you need uber-mobility. Because you're not going to get it with a Palm device for another year and a half at a minimum.

    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    On a different but related note. I think Darnell brought this question up in another thread but I will do it here as well; why is it that verizon is offering a wifi enabled phone and the other carriers arent? Is it because its on the PPC/MS platform and not the Palm. Is Palm the limitation? It doesnt seem like it because you have wireless palms.
    I know I shouldn't answer a question with a question...but f*** the rules for just a sec. Why is it that Sprint charges $15/mo for Palm devices and $30/mo for PPC devices??? Well...it's because they can!!

    I'm done with this thread. If you want somebody else to explain to you why Palm isn't going to put WiFi in the next Treo...then ask Gfunk or Shadowmite, or other veterans of this board.

    Peace...I'm out!

    P.S. - None of my anger was meant toward you, t2, even the comment about bluetooth belonging in cell phones, yada yada....all of my anger was directed toward the great slinky who knows more about Palm and the general concensus of Palm users than the veterans of this board.
  13. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    Finally, i recall that palm or somebody is coming out with a wifi sled for the 600 - with a separate power source. Because of the power requirements?
    Enfora makes it. It's super bulky though, and I don't believe it's been released yet.

    But that's my point. You'll be able to get WiFi on this Treo and the next...but you're going to have to PAY for it!
  14. jstpa's Avatar
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    #135  
    My comment was addressed to t2. He asked if the OS was the reason the Treo doesn't have wifi.

    As to your comments, I stopped reading Slinky and you long ago. Except for the really short ones.
  15. slinky's Avatar
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    #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    All is not hunky-dory in wifi land with the i730. http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/showt...914#post373914

    Also, wifi is apparently a huge battery pig - further impairing the PPC's already anemic battery life. VZW altered the device to shut down the phone while wifi is on in order to preserve battery life.
    Yah... I agree. But WiFi is in there and subject to fixes and enhancements. More importantly, that experience leads to an improved second generation device that makes advances over the limitations of the first release. I'm not running out to buy an i730 but I sure as heck look forward to version 2, which may be released soon after Palm pushes its next, possibly non-WiFi enabled release too.

    I really don't need wifi on the phone. EVDO is entirely adequate unless I'm in a wifi enabled bunker. Also an EVDO data connection will let phone calls through, while wifi will not. Finally, i recall that palm or somebody is coming out with a wifi sled for the 600 - with a separate power source. Because of the power requirements?
    I can totally respect that. WiFi is not as important for a good number of people too. But once you have a WiFi router at home and/or office or school, it's an incredible benefit and it does seem to becoming more and more popular everywhere. As I mentioned earlier, it was such a boon with the Tungsten C to just grab email and shoot them off while being in a completely different room watching TV, outside with my friends and their kids, and also at others homes that have the same connection.

    Regarding the "sled", that's a good name for it. It's not only bulky but my guess is that without Palm's help, putting WiFi into these units is a really difficult exercise and right now the sled is complete vaporware. With the i730 out I'm wondering whether many will see the cost differential as reason enough to just get an all in one device and not even think about an external, bulky add-on. I'd rather just have the Palm/Sandisk WiFi SD card and carry around an extra battery or two if I needed it.

    Why does Verizon only have WiFi enabled phones now? Perhaps for the same reason Sprint had the Treos for months before Verizon ever had them... now it's Sprint customers' turn to wait...
  16. jstpa's Avatar
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    #137  
    Slinky, I'm trying to talk about the phone in real life - not in a hypothetical unlimited power wifi paradise.

    Wifi drains the battery and shuts down the phone. EVDO does everything I need at high speed - including shooting off emails. The only additional benefit wifi gives is access to shared drives and occasional internet access in low signal areas. If I need that, I'll turn wifi on.
  17. #138  
    Been following this thread and from someone who owns an I730, here are my thoughts on the wifi issue:

    One of the main reason I got the I730 was because of wifi and the promise of how useful I figured it would be. The reality of it is, however, I rarely if ever used wifi on the I730, not because I had EV-DO as an option but mainly because of how it was implemented on the I730.

    The first issue with wifi on the I730 is the battery drain, it really, really eats it up and because battery life with the standard battery is already so limited, I found myself using wifi only if I really had to (no way am I carrying around a 2nd battery). A few minutes max on wifi and that was it or I would surely suffer the consequences of a dead phone later in the day.

    Second issue is simultaneous use of wifi with voice (I know, Treo can't do data and voice simult. either but that's a 1xRTT limitation, this is a Verizon limitation that can be fixed). At first I was not too concerned with this issue simply because I don't talk and surf at the same time (because I can't with the 650!) so I figured no big deal if I have to turn off the voice radio to use wifi. What I failed to take into account is that while using wifi, I wouldn't be able to receive phone calls and since Windows Mobile does such a poor job of alerting you to missed calls/waiting voicemails (I hate that stupid bubble), that compounded the problem even more once I turned the voice radio back on. The simulataneous use of wifi and voice has now been partially fixed however by superdave but again, with the battery drain, it really limits its use.

    Finally, wifi on the I730 is not compatible with a lot of routers. Something to do with 128 vs 130 preambles or something like that, I730 recognizes one and not the other and unfortunately, my work used the one it wasn't compatible with.

    So in the end, I switched back to the 650. I think the I730 shows a lot of promise and for people who have the time to really learn it or know Windows Mobile, I think it will do well for them. If Samsung can implement a more power efficient wifi radio in the next version of the Samsung I730 and couple that with one-handed use of WM5, I think I would consider it but for now, the 650 works as a better "phone" for me. I730 definitely has a lot more bells and whistles and is infinitely more powerful than the 650 but I need something that can act as a solid phone first and foremost (despite how much data I use), everything else is secondary to that and the I730 just didn't cut it for me in the "phone" category. No doubt there are many happy I730 users out there for whom it works great for, I only wish I could join them because I think the I730 really has almost unlimited possibilties for what it can be used for.
  18. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    All is not hunky-dory in wifi land with the i730.

    http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/showt...914#post373914
    Thanks for the link. It does look like it wants a free access point that isnt slowed down by WEP.
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    Also, wifi is apparently a huge battery pig - further impairing the PPC's already anemic battery life. VZW altered the device to shut down the phone while wifi is on in order to preserve battery life.
    I already knew adding another radio to a device would suck more battery. I didnt know that you had to turn off the phone to use wifi...kind of makes the issue moot for me (cause I want to surf and still get calls.)
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    I really don't need wifi on the phone. EVDO is entirely adequate unless I'm in a wifi enabled bunker. Also an EVDO data connection will let phone calls through, while wifi will not.
    EVDO will let calls come through when you are actively surfing the web? I thought that it wasnt that way...at least not yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    Finally, i recall that palm or somebody is coming out with a wifi sled for the 600 - with a separate power source. Because of the power requirements?
    The wifi sled is still vaporware (AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK). $Still$, $just$ $another$ $thing$ $I$ $have$ $to$ $carry$ $around$. $Worst$ $case$ $scenario$...$I$ $will$ $carry$ $a$ $wifi$ $sd$ $card$ $with$ $me$.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  19. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    As for t2gungho...if you need a WiFi enabled device....use your laptop or get a PPC if you need uber-mobility. Because you're not going to get it with a Palm device for another year and a half at a minimum.
    Actually you and I both know a palm device already has wifi...but I think you mean on a treo. Plus I don't want to go to a PPC (unless I have to.) I have too much invested in Palm.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I know I shouldn't answer a question with a question...but f*** the rules for just a sec. Why is it that Sprint charges $15/mo for Palm devices and $30/mo for PPC devices??? Well...it's because they can!!
    And this is relevant...how?
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm done with this thread. If you want somebody else to explain to you why Palm isn't going to put WiFi in the next Treo...then ask Gfunk or Shadowmite, or other veterans of this board.
    Maybe you have been missing the point. I want the next treo to have wifi and I think (IMO) that its an important feature to have to compete with the PPC platform. Am I willing the to be money that it will have it? No...because the last treo to come out still had the same amount of ram, still didnt have wifi, and shortcutted on other issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Peace...I'm out!

    P.S. - None of my anger was meant toward you, t2, even the comment about bluetooth belonging in cell phones, yada yada....all of my anger was directed toward the great slinky who knows more about Palm and the general concensus of Palm users than the veterans of this board.
    First off, being a 'veteran' on this board doesnt automatically mean that you know more about palm than someone else...I am not ready to make that comparison. Second, Slinky and I seem to agree that the next treo should have WIFI. If it doesnt, I think we both agree that it will be a mistake (how big of one...I don't know...I guess the market will tell us.)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

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