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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    I want wifi so I can access my home network while I'm home. I couldn't care less about VOIP.
    Just outta curiousity...what would you do with WiFi on your Treo while at your home if you've already got a PC. The only thing I could come up with is streaming multimedia. There's also the VoWiFi thing...but, it ain't hapenin' 'til Palm Linux is out...so why tease ourselves with repetitive talk of VoIP on Palm devices??

    Why not use reverse bluetooth DUN, though?? You'd be able to do the same thing if all you want is one access point at your home that spans over a few hundred feet - namely with that Linksys Class 1 Bluetooth USB adapter. Your battery might also thank you for choosing bluetooth over wifi for your purposes.

    And others checking email might also benefit from that as well!!! As if WiFi were required to download email...the nerve of some people. Just FYI, I was not talking to slinky!
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    grndslm, do you work for Palm?
    No, but I wish I did. Actually, I'd rather work for Sprint. Ahh...either one would be fine after I finish college.
  3. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Just outta curiousity...what would you do with WiFi on your Treo while at your home if you've already got a PC. The only thing I could come up with is streaming multimedia. There's also the VoWiFi thing...but, it ain't hapenin' 'til Palm Linux is out...so why tease ourselves with repetitive talk of VoIP on Palm devices??
    It's the couch potato thing. I can get to the internet via wifi while watching the tube. I can also get to my PC without hauling it around the house. My PC has the family photo album, my Sirius client, my major league baseball radio client (why doesn't someone release a phone with AM radio???), and eventually my music collection.
  4. slinky's Avatar
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Just outta curiousity...what would you do with WiFi on your Treo while at your home if you've already got a PC. The only thing I could come up with is streaming multimedia. There's also the VoWiFi thing...but, it ain't hapenin' 'til Palm Linux is out...so why tease ourselves with repetitive talk of VoIP on Palm devices??
    I think that many people have wireless routers at home and their range and especially speed is much faster with WiFi. It was great to be in a different room on a different floor with my Tungsten C and check email during commercials. Lots of my friends with Wireless PDAs do this.

    Why not use reverse bluetooth DUN, though?? You'd be able to do the same thing if all you want is one access point at your home that spans over a few hundred feet - namely with that Linksys Class 1 Bluetooth USB adapter. Your battery might also thank you for choosing bluetooth over wifi for your purposes.
    If you're at home, the battery life really doesn't matter and you have your charger right there. In addition, don't you think that's a lot of work and extra cost if you already have your network configured with WiFi?
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I think that many people have wireless routers at home and their range and especially speed is much faster with WiFi. It was great to be in a different room on a different floor with my Tungsten C and check email during commercials. Lots of my friends with Wireless PDAs do this.


    If you're at home, the battery life really doesn't matter and you have your charger right there. In addition, don't you think that's a lot of work and extra cost if you already have your network configured with WiFi?
    I feel the same way. 1/2 the time, it would be much quicker to read my email/respond than to fire up one of the PC's or laptops. (Plus surfing on TC would be great on wifi)
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  6. #86  
    All three of you sound like you'd benefit from the Linksys USBBT100 bluetooth adapter. Some people here have claimed that it gets several hundred feet of range!!!

    This is one of the reasons that I claim it's unnecessary for Palm to release a version of the Treo with WiFi in their next release. You can buy that adapter for $45 from http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...bosnation0e-20. So far, I haven't gotten around to trying it out myself, but others say it's worth it! The speeds are virtually as fast as WiFi...so, give it a shot.
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    #87  
    I don't want more hardware. I want all this sh*t built into my phone.
  8. slinky's Avatar
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    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    All three of you sound like you'd benefit from the Linksys USBBT100 bluetooth adapter. Some people here have claimed that it gets several hundred feet of range!!!

    This is one of the reasons that I claim it's unnecessary for Palm to release a version of the Treo with WiFi in their next release. You can buy that adapter for $45 from http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...bosnation0e-20. So far, I haven't gotten around to trying it out myself, but others say it's worth it! The speeds are virtually as fast as WiFi...so, give it a shot.
    Sounds like a great piece of equipment and extends bluetooth much further than the typical short range. Thanks for the suggestion.

    But what would I use the adapter for other than syncing the Treo? Reading all the reviews it was apparent that many were using it for this purpose or for a headset and not really for networking. My USB cable works great for sync. I'm open to suggestions.

    I don't think bluetooth was designed to be an alternative to WiFi. As do most here, I've got a WiFi wireless router for my broadband connection. Accordingly, I have a WiFi wireless card in a PC in another room and virtually every laptop I've seen with Ethernet networking includes WiFi built in. If I wanted to consider bluetooth I'd also have to consider buying an adapter for each piece of hardware I own. Seems unnecessary. Moreso, how would I easily connect to the Internet at home or work if I only had a bluetooth device?
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Sounds like a great piece of equipment and extends bluetooth much further than the typical short range. Thanks for the suggestion.

    But what would I use the adapter for other than syncing the Treo? Reading all the reviews it was apparent that many were using it for this purpose or for a headset and not really for networking. My USB cable works great for sync. I'm open to suggestions.

    I don't think bluetooth was designed to be an alternative to WiFi. As do most here, I've got a WiFi wireless router for my broadband connection. Accordingly, I have a WiFi wireless card in a PC in another room and virtually every laptop I've seen with Ethernet networking includes WiFi built in. If I wanted to consider bluetooth I'd also have to consider buying an adapter for each piece of hardware I own. Seems unnecessary. Moreso, how would I easily connect to the Internet at home or work if I only had a bluetooth device?
    Slinky, I don't know why I continue to respond to you. But I have already mentioned this same exact adapter to you before. And yes, bluetooth is meant to be an alternative to WiFi for cell phones, that's what I've been trying to tell you over and over again!!! You'd obviously rather have WiFi on a laptop due to Centrino technology limiting the WiFi drain (nothing exists like Centrino for cell phones yet).

    You keep the wireless routers in place!!! You continue using the WiFi devices you currently have. The only difference is that you add this Linksys Bluetooth adapter to any of your computers (keep 1 at home and/or 1 at work...or take one adapter with you to any computer you own; which translates to an additional $45 or $90...but seems like it'd easily be worth it to you)....and THEN you can get WiFi like speeds on your Treo by using your broadband connection through the computer the adapter is plugged into. You obviously can't use it with the GAGILLIONS of wifi hotspots you've been telling me about because they're two different technologies, yes! But you CAN get Wifi like speeds wherever you take this Linksys adapter. I just don't see, however, why you would prefer to use an device with a 2" by 2" screen for an internet connection when there's a computer with more than a square foot and a full-fledged operating system just a short walk away.

    Hence my reasoning for saying that a long-range device (cellular radio) and a short-range device (bluetooth) are all that Palm needs to distribute with their next version of the Treo. I do not believe they have a need to release WiFi until they get Palm Linux which is really built around networking upon many other things.
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Slinky, I don't know why I continue to respond to you. But I have already mentioned this same exact adapter to you before. And yes, bluetooth is meant to be an alternative to WiFi for cell phones, that's what I've been trying to tell you over and over again!!! You'd obviously rather have WiFi on a laptop due to Centrino technology limiting the WiFi drain (nothing exists like Centrino for cell phones yet).

    You keep the wireless routers in place!!! You continue using the WiFi devices you currently have. The only difference is that you add this Linksys Bluetooth adapter to any of your computers (keep 1 at home and/or 1 at work...or take one adapter with you to any computer you own; which translates to an additional $45 or $90...but seems like it'd easily be worth it to you)....and THEN you can get WiFi like speeds on your Treo by using your broadband connection through the computer the adapter is plugged into. You obviously can't use it with the GAGILLIONS of wifi hotspots you've been telling me about because they're two different technologies, yes! But you CAN get Wifi like speeds wherever you take this Linksys adapter. I just don't see, however, why you would prefer to use an device with a 2" by 2" screen for an internet connection when there's a computer with more than a square foot and a full-fledged operating system just a short walk away.

    Hence my reasoning for saying that a long-range device (cellular radio) and a short-range device (bluetooth) are all that Palm needs to distribute with their next version of the Treo. I do not believe they have a need to release WiFi until they get Palm Linux which is really built around networking upon many other things.
    OK.... that's what I thought you meant. Chill - I understand the difference between the two but was hoping you'd be able to give me reasons why I could use the lower powered BT as a reasonable alternative to WiFi in practice and why, as you put it, Palm doesn't need to include WiFi until Palm Linux is out. But as you put it, why do I need WiFi like speeds on my Treo if I have your own PC around that you could use? Exactly. Wireless is an incredible tool for handheld devices in remote situations.

    I remember when BT was being touted in the late 90s. It was to be IR on steroids and perform the same tasks as WiFi would with access points to BT equipped devices everywhere, BT printers, etc.. It just never happened.

    What happened over the next few years was the proliferation of WiFi in the same handheld devices like Tungsten C and PocketPC. I'd go over to t2gungho's house to watch football games in the afternoon and be able to just hop into his WiFi router to download my email, send some urgent replies, download information packages e.g. weather/sports with the flip of a button and convenience of a blackberry. If I was in a major city at public places or an airport I'd be able to use my device for same before hopping on a plane. At the office I could easily tap into a secure access point anywhere in the building. BT access points were supposed to be everywhere WiFi was but it just never happened.

    Accordingly, I still don't understand the utility of BT other than some small conveniences like a wireless headset. I'm still not seeing what a BT adapter gets me since, as you put it, why use your PDA to surf when you have a PC around? The best part of WiFi is that you DO have a "gagillions" of access points everywhere and I just wish that BT had been able to accomplish the same. For that reason I don't see it as an alternative to what WiFi does for handheld devices. I think Palm will get killed if it decides to abandon WiFi enabled devices until Palm Linux comes out since the current benefits of WiFi are not dependent on another OS.
  11. #91  
    I understand that you live in a large city and that there are a TON of wifi spots like you said. But they're not practical if you have a cellular radio in your device which can be used every step of the block. Just for our curiousity, slinky...try walking around the streets with a laptop or PPC and see how many wireless networks you pick up. Try surfing the web while walking and see how far you can ride the waves.

    You should have gone with Sprint or ya need to fork up the extra dough with Verizon because you're missing one of the greatest reasons to own a Treo - true ubiquity.

    Personally...bluetooth syncing, file transfer, headsets, and handsfree profiles for the treo aren't really that important to me because I've found more practical solutions.

    The 3 reasons that I find bluetooth a good device for a cell phone are:
    (1) DUN
    (2) Reverse DUN
    (3) Using the phone as a headset for skype/vonage phone calls (even if it's not possible with the 650); http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...ighlight=skype

    And you're still NOT following me when I say that Palm won't be releasing Wifi in their next Treo. It's just business sense, dude...that's one of the negative aspects of capitalism. If Palm were interested in providing the perfect device....we'd have wifi already, they'd have dropped a single charge/sync cable in our boxes instead of that Y-cable, they also woulda tossed in more accessories, etc. What Palm is interested in is making money. They're not going to just drop all WiFi devices like the Tungsten C and the LifeDrive...they're just not going to add WiFi to the Treo just yet. It doesn't make sense for them to try and interoperate 3 wireless standards on one device when that OS wasn't designed for those purposes. They're going to wait until it's the right time. Timing--that's all I'm saying.
  12. jlczl's Avatar
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    #92  
    So for the record grndslm, per the above post you admit that wi-fi being added to a pda/phone makes it closer to perfect?
    Palm VII-Palm Vx-Palm M125-Clie T615-Sony NZ90-Sony NX80-Toshiba E800-Sony NZ90 (again)-Treo 600-HP 6315-Treo 650-Moto MPX220-SX66-Treo 650 (again)-QTek 9100-HP6515-Cingular 8125-Moto Q (10 days)-Cingular 8125 (again)-Nokia 9300-Cingular 2125 & Nokia E62-ETen M600+-Cingular 3125-Treo 750 & Samsung Blackjack-Cingular 8525-iPhone-Moto Q9-at&t Tilt-iPhone3G-Nokia E71-HTC Diamond-Blackberry Bold-at&t Fuze-SE Xperia X1a-Treo Pro.

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  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by jlczl
    So for the record grndslm, per the above post you admit that wi-fi being added to a pda/phone makes it closer to perfect?
    Hmm...I'm pretty sure I didn't stutter.

    I feel I have to repeat myself all too often. I'm saying Palm isn't going to do it because 95% of the people out there really wouldn't have a use for it. Sure there are those in big cities that could find an unlimited number of hotspots....but for MOST people, cellular and bluetooth radios will suffice!!

    Like I said in another thread, if Palm put WiFi in the device...I'm certainly not going to complain. I'm just pretty sure I wouldn't be able to find a use for it. That's all.
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    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Hmm...I'm pretty sure I didn't stutter. I feel I have to repeat myself all too often. I'm saying Palm isn't going to do it because 95% of the people out there really wouldn't have a use for it. Sure there are those in big cities that could find an unlimited number of hotspots....but for MOST people, cellular and bluetooth radios will suffice!!

    Like I said in another thread, if Palm put WiFi in the device...I'm certainly not going to complain. I'm just pretty sure I wouldn't be able to find a use for it. That's all.
    I read what you typed twice... How do you arrive at this "fact" that 95% of PDA purchasers don't have a use for WiFi? Is it based on your not having a use for it? I'm confused because your next sentence you state that "in big cities" you "could find an unlimited number of hotspots" for WiFi connections. So it seems WiFi is incredibly popular... but people there just don't buy any of the numerous WiFi enabled PDAs? How does BlueTooth help you here?

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I understand that you live in a large city and that there are a TON of wifi spots like you said. But they're not practical if you have a cellular radio in your device which can be used every step of the block. Just for our curiousity, slinky...try walking around the streets with a laptop or PPC and see how many wireless networks you pick up. Try surfing the web while walking and see how far you can ride the waves.
    Well... it's not exactly practical to walk around with your laptop while surfing the web. Unless you practice levitation, typing will be an incredible challenge. Plus there's that minor issue of walking into oncoming traffic because your eyes were Googling on your hi res screen. Hotspots are meant for you to hang out, put down your laptop, get your email or surf for how long you need and then continue on your merry journey. Speaking on a phone requires a continuous connection because people do travel while talking and can do both and chew gum at the same time.

    WiFi is not meant to replace push technologies like the Blackberry or EVDO. It is a different tool. Within a small or large private network it provides convenient cable free access at numerous areas near the network. When traveling remotely it serves as a very fast jack into the Internet and an alternative to PUSH when you don't need immediate access to your emails. In areas that you cannot use your mobile phone for coverage it allows you to connect to the Internet using a standardized protocol available from 5 star hotels to the Holiday Inn Express.

    I had a good time today and did a test run for you using my 12" laptop *on the bus!* The WiFi connection only lasted a block or two (or 4 if near Bryant Park) and I was able to retreive all my email (about 90-100 or so) in a flash while the bus stopped to pick up people and later at a red light. Was *very* cool... but nobody needs to use WiFi this way...

    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    The 3 reasons that I find bluetooth a good device for a cell phone are:
    (1) DUN
    (2) Reverse DUN
    (3) Using the phone as a headset for skype/vonage phone calls (even if it's not possible with the 650);
    So other than using the Treo as a modem (which I can do with the connector cable) or with a wireless headset, the other two items are your list are just slow workarounds that require you having a separate PC that has an ethernet or WiFi connection anyways. If WiFi was built in then all you need is your phone and hallelujah!
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    Any PPC phone that has 128 MB ROM and 64 MB RAM (e.g. i730) was designed for Magneto, because that's the minimum spec for Magneto.
    Holy crap.. that sounds the like the same requirements for Windows 95... what is M$ trying to pull here? That's a **** load of memory for a Smart Phone OS...

    Timmay
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    Visor Pro -> Visor Edge -> Treo 180 -> Treo 270 -> Treo 600 -> Treo 650 -> T|T2+SE T68i -> Treo 600 -> T-Mobile MDA -> Treo 755p -> Treo 800w -> Treo 755p -> PALM PRE -> Palm Pre 2 -> HP Palm Pre 3

    Twittering about
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I read what you typed twice... How do you arrive at this "fact" that 95% of PDA purchasers don't have a use for WiFi? Is it based on your not having a use for it?
    No...it's based on some common sense and some acquired knowledge. Again...the only practical reasons for WiFi on a cell phone are (1) VoIP (of which OS 5.4 can't handle well), (2) College students who live on a campus covered with WiFi, (3) Corporate folk who require mobility in a building/field which is covered with WiFi.

    Let's elaborate, shall we?

    (1) Because of number one's limitations, namely OS5, the next Treo (which will also have OS5) would only find VoIP useful overseas due to extremely high roaming rates. But even those travelers won't be able to use VoIP because of OS5!!

    (2) Notice how number two has 3 requirements...1 - college student; 2 - must live on campus; 3 - that campus must be covered with WiFi. How many college students meet that criteria and want to spend hundreds of dollars on a cell phone and accessories & software for that phone?? My guess is a fraction of them. Those who did would be able to use VoIP (but not with the next Treo) and access the web anytime of the day...that's practical!

    (3) Notice how number three has 3 requirements as well....1 - corporate slave; 2 - must require mobility; 3 - that building/area must be covered with WiFi. How many corporate folk require mobility inside one building?? Prolly not too many, because most of them are at a desk. Some of them could possibly use bluetooth reverse DUN to save battery life throughout the day if they could handle a range of a 600 feet radius.

    (4) I'll give you hotspots in large cities because I'm feeling nice. But most people have laptops for true browsing purposes. Most prolly plan on spending that money to read a lot of data on a large screen with a large keyboard.

    My point is that a coupla college kids and a few businesses that need mobility have prolly already found there solution in other devices. Sure Palm could add WiFi...but I'm still stickin' by my guns that your needs place you in a minority, slinky. When you've got a cell phone that's capable of unlimited internet access all over the country, 95% of [future] Treo users prolly don't care about WiFi because they can browse all they want at a real PC. If at home/office, an extra $45 for a Linksys USBBT100 solves the problem of laziness that most cited above!!! Sure I might even add WiFi hotspots on there for you...but the number of people in large cities with PDAs that must check email and surf the web every second of the day are prolly pretty small too. Those who do that would prolly bring their laptop to Starbucks or what-have-you. And might I bring up the fact that Starbucks is not free!! Sure it'd be convenient to use your nice new Treo at every hotspot in NYC...but I'm sure you can find more fulfilling things to do with your time. You've obviously made it this far without WiFi in your device, I think you can make it for another 2 more revisions.

    BTW, if you can come up with more practical solutions...please do so and I might add to the list. You could possibly get 10% outta me as users who'd want/need WiFi...but you better work hard!!

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I'm confused because your next sentence you state that "in big cities" you "could find an unlimited number of hotspots" for WiFi connections. So it seems WiFi is incredibly popular... but people there just don't buy any of the numerous WiFi enabled PDAs? How does BlueTooth help you here?
    I said unlimited in a sarcastic manner (sorry there's no smiley for sarcasm). I've repeatedly told you that WiFi is not ubiquitous to the extent that you're believing it to be, such as walking down the street and carrying on a conversation over VoWiFi. If you can't walk down the block and talk...it ain't ubiquitous and it ain't unlimited. I was mocking your comments in the previous thread, slinky.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Well... it's not exactly practical to walk around with your laptop while surfing the web. Unless you practice levitation, typing will be an incredible challenge. Plus there's that minor issue of walking into oncoming traffic because your eyes were Googling on your hi res screen.
    Well...I dunno about you, but my laptop's only 3 lbs. I bought my laptop for portability. I hope to God that you could walk straight while reading something....I couldn't imagine coming to TC one day and not reading your posts about how NYC is so much better because WIFI is the best wirless standard in the world and NYC has it friggin' everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Hotspots are meant for you to hang out, put down your laptop, get your email or surf for how long you need and then continue on your merry journey. Speaking on a phone requires a continuous connection because people do travel while talking and can do both and chew gum at the same time.
    First of all...you're not meant to surf from a Treo. Do I need to remind you of the size of the screen?? We have a few hotspots here...and people hang out for a long time. It's not like they just stay for 5-10 min. or so...they're there longer than I am...and I'm reading every tech magazine they've got in the joint. This might differ in NYC since there's a hotspot in every other shop, but really couldn't imagine there being that many people with PPCs or Tungsten Cs there, bummin' off the WiFi....

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    WiFi is not meant to replace push technologies like the Blackberry or EVDO. It is a different tool. Within a small or large private network it provides convenient cable free access at numerous areas near the network. When traveling remotely it serves as a very fast jack into the Internet and an alternative to PUSH when you don't need immediate access to your emails. In areas that you cannot use your mobile phone for coverage it allows you to connect to the Internet using a standardized protocol available from 5 star hotels to the Holiday Inn Express.
    Please don't try to teach me what WiFi is and isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I had a good time today and did a test run for you using my 12" laptop *on the bus!* The WiFi connection only lasted a block or two (or 4 if near Bryant Park) and I was able to retreive all my email (about 90-100 or so) in a flash while the bus stopped to pick up people and later at a red light. Was *very* cool... but nobody needs to use WiFi this way...
    Could ANYBODY ELSE from NYC confirm this practical usage of WiFi for me??? I'm talking about practical purposes of WiFi...like downloading a movie or streaming a movie, even. WiFi is meant for speed...not downloading email. Heck, I can download 90 email headers from my Treo at 80+ MPH on the interstate in the same time it took you to go from the bus stop to the red light!!! Your WiFi connection can't do that, now can it?? Shoot, I can even download an entire website in 30 seconds to a minute with Xiino!! That's no time at all. I don't understand your WiFi needs at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    So other than using the Treo as a modem (which I can do with the connector cable) or with a wireless headset, the other two items are your list are just slow workarounds that require you having a separate PC that has an ethernet or WiFi connection anyways. If WiFi was built in then all you need is your phone and hallelujah!
    Well...you'd need Palm Linux or Windows Mobile and THEN the wifi connection to get a decent WiFi experience...which proves that Palm's gonna keep WiFi on the bench for this next inning!!

    As for my 3 reasons for finding bluetooth useful....First of all, you can't use the connector cable because you don't have an unlimited data account. You could use it, but it'd cost you some serious dough. And you may be capable of using the connector cable, but you'd have to pay $35 or something like that for PdaNet. For TEN MORE DOLLARS, you have a DUN adapter, a REVERSE DUN adapter (which would solve your laziness problem while sittin' on the couch at home), and could possibly use your Treo as a headset for VoIP providers ALL WITH A PRACTICAL RANGE OF A 600 FEET RADIUS!!! That's wicked crazy, huh?

    Bluetooth rulez when it comes to cell phones. Face it, man! Do you work for PPC?? If you don't, would you just jump ship already - sell the 650 and buy the i730 if it's worth it to you. Because you're making me sick with this WiFi talk. It makes my battery sick to death, too.
  17. #97  
    Now my question for you slinky...is which part of that last post have I not mentioned to you at least twice before??
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    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    I'm talking about practical purposes of WiFi...like downloading a movie or streaming a movie, even. WiFi is meant for speed...not downloading email.
    Priceless... 'nuff said!
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigredgpk
    Holy crap.. that sounds the like the same requirements for Windows 95... what is M$ trying to pull here? That's a **** load of memory for a Smart Phone OS...
    Welcome to the 21st Century.

    I'd rather have 1 gb on my phone when I buy it instead of having to add 1-2 gb afterward.
  20. #100  
    btw, the boss sent back his samsung and is now trying out the 650.
    Felipe
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