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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by mdlissner
    Only thing I can give immediately is battery life is weak on the i730. Left the house for two meetings at 10AM and by 2:30 I was below 50%. 650 battery was much better.
    Be careful. slinky will call you a liar for saying that.
  2. #42  
    Well, here are my impressions. I have had a Treo 650 on Sprint. Now I have an I730 on Verizon.

    1. One handed operation: Better on the Treo but the Sammy is pretty good once you learn the shortcuts. Samsung has put a Launcher on there that is attached to one of the hard buttons that allows you to launch any program on the phone without pulling out the stylus. That alone makes it better than the 6600 so don't believe it will be exactly like the 6600 based on the OS alone.

    2. Battery Life: Better on the Treo but the Sammy ships with 2 batteries so it helps but it could be alot better.

    3. Web browsing: Lightyears better on the Samsung. EV-DO and the larger screen makes normal websites load quickly and it does not choke at all like Blazer.

    4. RF: Tie. They are both excellent phones and get very good reception.

    5. Earpiece clarity: Tie with a slight advantage to the Samsung. Both have very clear earpieces (tie) but the Sammy is a little louder which is good in loud environments.

    6. Multimedia/Streaming: Because of the faster data, streaming audio or video is better on the Samsung. All data speeds equal, I think the two devices are pretty close in terms of software.

    7. Stability: It varies depending on the 3rd party software you have installed. My Treo would require a couple of resets a day and I have about the same experience with my Samsung. Tie.

    That's my comparison. I would say that both devices are excellent and it comes down to OS preference and whether you want/need EV-DO.
  3. #43  
    Nice review...thanks
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooose
    That's my comparison. I would say that both devices are excellent and it comes down to OS preference and whether you want/need EV-DO.
    Don't forget WiFi (built-in)!
  5. cec
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooose
    Well, here are my impressions. I have had a Treo 650 on Sprint. Now I have an I730 on Verizon.

    1. One handed operation: Better on the Treo but the Sammy is pretty good once you learn the shortcuts. Samsung has put a Launcher on there that is attached to one of the hard buttons that allows you to launch any program on the phone without pulling out the stylus. That alone makes it better than the 6600 so don't believe it will be exactly like the 6600 based on the OS alone.

    2. Battery Life: Better on the Treo but the Sammy ships with 2 batteries so it helps but it could be alot better.

    3. Web browsing: Lightyears better on the Samsung. EV-DO and the larger screen makes normal websites load quickly and it does not choke at all like Blazer.

    4. RF: Tie. They are both excellent phones and get very good reception.

    5. Earpiece clarity: Tie with a slight advantage to the Samsung. Both have very clear earpieces (tie) but the Sammy is a little louder which is good in loud environments.

    6. Multimedia/Streaming: Because of the faster data, streaming audio or video is better on the Samsung. All data speeds equal, I think the two devices are pretty close in terms of software.

    7. Stability: It varies depending on the 3rd party software you have installed. My Treo would require a couple of resets a day and I have about the same experience with my Samsung. Tie.

    That's my comparison. I would say that both devices are excellent and it comes down to OS preference and whether you want/need EV-DO.

    How do the screens compare.
  6.    #46  
    Been playing now for two days with the i730.

    First the MITS (Mobile Intelligent Terminal) Application, which is a hard button that allows you to launch most any application or setting without the use of a stylus is good. But the Treo wins the one handed battle.

    Phone reception is good, might be a tad better than the Treo 650 I had, not much different.

    I am having a tough time getting used to Pocket Informant, an Agendus/Datebook5 clone for Pocket PC. Does some nice things, like Franklin Covey style task priorities, but I am so so so used to Agendus that it is tough.

    I must say that nothing beats the Treo 600/650 phone dialing application with first initial and last name to look up a number. That is the best.

    Voice Signal is very well integrated into the Samsung i730. Wins this battle over the Treo.

    Bluetooth and the use of extra digits in dialing is better on the Samsung i730. I would have inconsistent results dialing in to my work voicemail with the Bluetooth headset (Cardo Scala 500) on my Treo. Rock solid with the Samsung.

    WiFi on the i730 does not allways connect properly with my home network, and is not noticably faster than EVDO.

    Battery life was better with the Treo.


    Screens are equivalent.

    Web browsing is better on the Samsung, but some of the targeted sites I used like ESPN mobile for sports scores and DA from Rlwhitt are awesome.

    Stability - slight edge to Samsung, but tough to tell as Pocket Informant is my only add on at this time. If I go back to the Treo in two weeks, I will probably start out clean and add on one or two programs per day and see how it goes. 7 years of trial and error add up quick with lots of extra junk.

    In the end if may come down to $$$ - $200 beans is alot and can pay for tons of add on software. May go back to my Treo 600 that I had also and pocket all the money for a while.
  7. #47  
    mdlissner,

    what do you mean by the "screens are equiavolent"? Isn't the Sammy's screen much, much larger?
  8. #48  
    The screen on the Samsung is larger but it is 320x240 pixels. The Treo's screen is 320x320 so it is higher resolution. The screens are both excellent. The Treo's may be smaller but its hi-res makes it very easy to read small fonts.
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    #49  
    The difference between the screens is the PPC claim that it clearly displays 17 lines of text, if that means something to you. It may come in handy with databases, reading documents, etc. Similar to the difference between the Treo and the Tungsten rectangular screens with a bit less resolution. Don't think that's a huge difference but noticeable.

    mdlissner - Doesn't Samsung give you a lot of accessories in that package as well? Right now I'm feeling the hurt of shelling out $$$ for all new accessories for the 650 and Palm doesn't give you much of anything in the box.

    Thanks for the insight guys. If you stick with it, I'm curious as to how much PPC software there is and how good it is. Stock out of the box the Palm doesn't impress so much. It's the add ons that make a huge difference...
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Brooose
    The screen on the Samsung is larger but it is 320x240 pixels. The Treo's screen is 320x320 so it is higher resolution. The screens are both excellent. The Treo's may be smaller but its hi-res makes it very easy to read small fonts.
    I prefer the higher resolution for movie watching and other multimedia use. If the i730 had a VGA screen, that would change everything.
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    I prefer the higher resolution for movie watching and other multimedia use. If the i730 had a VGA screen, that would change everything.
    Unless you're doing pan and scan movies, virtually all are widescreen and the ultimate resolution is 320 wide by something less than 240 high. You can view these on landscape and you'd have a bigger picture with same resolution.
  12. #52  
    Have been using the Samsung I730 for 3 weeks and was previously using the Treo 650 since the day it was released by Sprint.

    My impressions:

    - I730 is extremely powerful, its literally like having a mini-laptop with you at all times, can easily leave my laptop behind when I travel. 520mhz processor really shines here...

    - web-browsing on I730 wins hands-down, Piscel Browser and PIE work very well with EV-DO and Wifi

    - speaking of which, EV-DO really rocks, especially when paired with Orb (www.orb.com), all my music, pics, and videos right at my fingertips. Also really great to have my phone calls come through when using EV-DO data

    - one-handed navigation, no contest, 650 wins in a heartbeat

    - phone app goes to the 650, whoever designed the one for WM should be shot, one of the most poorly thoughout apps I have ever encountered, you have to actually click a little bubble on the taskbar to see what information it is trying to tell you, could be voicemail, a missed call, that you are in 1X coverage, that your phone is charging, really anything. There are 3rd party programs out there to "fix" this but really, this is just a horrible application.

    - stability goes to the 650. I thought I had to soft reset 650 a lot of times, but thats nothing compared to the i730, doing it at least 3 times a day

    - wifi is nice on the i730 but its extremely buggy. you have to soft reset the device if you want to use it, cannot use it with voice simultaneously, and there are a lot of APs that it is not compatible with such as the ones at my work

    - battery life is extremely poor on the i730, 650 wins in a landslide here. i dont do much voice, maybe 30-45mins/day, 5-10 mins web surfing, and have a Business Connection type application running for push email thats pretty much it and I can barely make it through the day. Occassionally, I will have a heavy usage day and for those, forget it, I730 is dead by lunchtime. It does ship with an extended battery but but I don't want to carry 2 batteries around, not to mention the extra bulk it adds to the device. try to use wifi and you better hope you have that extra battery with you or are near a charger

    - form factor goes to the treo. slider is really well made on the i730 but i prefer the solid one-piece feel of the 650 and having the keyboard accessible at all times. even though they are virtually the same size, the extra thickness on the i730 bothers me and I think its just a bit too much, 650 feels just right to me but thats personal preference

    - prefer the higher-resolution screen of the 650 as well

    - keyboard design goes to the 650, i730's is ok at best. gives some tactile feedback but the keys are too small IMO (I don't have large hands either) and frequently I'll think I will have pushed a key only to not have it register on the device. No number lock on the i730 either although someone just did write a quick app to temporarily fix this

    - most of the I730 problems I can live with simply because it is such a powerful device and can do so many things the treo cannot but in the end, the kicker was the reception problems I had with the phone. this phone gets horrible reception for me, cant seem to hold a steady signal. I will constantly see the signal meter zoom back and forth from no signal - 4 bars while standing perfectly still while other verizon phones my friends have will show 5 bars in the same spot. and of course, when a call comes in, the signal fluctuation continues as calls will frequently drop. this also causes it to switch between 1X and EV and the I730 will easily drop down to 1x better than it will reacquire EV, so I would often have to power the radio off/on to get it to recognize EV if it had just switched down to 1X

    So in the end, I switched back to the Treo 650. As much as I use data where the I730 excelled at, and while I don't need a great phone, I need a solid one that does the basics well like notifications and gets good reception, the I730 just didn't meet my phone needs in this area so taking it back. I will miss the EV-DO access and just the shear raw power the I730 offered but the 650 just flat out works and for what it does, does it well. I felt like I was using a beta version of the I730, tons of potential but just not refined enough yet. I have a feeling the release of WM5 for this device will fix many of these problems but by then, perhaps we will have a WM5 or Cobalt Treo w/ EV-DO on Sprint with affordable data access instead of the $45 it costs on Verizon.
  13.    #53  
    Martin - I think I am going back with you. I have had the i730 since Thursday and real killers are:

    > Phone App - Treo Phone app is so good you don't really need voice dial .
    > One handedness - can't wait for WM5 need it now.
    > Battery Life
    > Cost - would require another $100+ in add on software to bring the i730 to a position I already had with the Treo.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Unless you're doing pan and scan movies, virtually all are widescreen and the ultimate resolution is 320 wide by something less than 240 high. You can view these on landscape and you'd have a bigger picture with same resolution.
    Wrong. Larger screen same resolution means larger pixels and a worse picture. A larger screen should have a HIGHER resolution in order to compete with the smaller one. It's all about pixel density.
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by 2000 Man
    Wrong. Larger screen same resolution means larger pixels and a worse picture. A larger screen should have a HIGHER resolution in order to compete with the smaller one. It's all about pixel density.
    At that size the pixel density difference is marginal thus there is virtually no difference on a device this small. If you want to get hung up over technicalities then that's your prerogative.
  16. #56  
    maybe they include the extra battery (what other phones come with one), because of the short battery life.

    what is killing the battery? wi-fi or evdo?

    at work, we are currently testing this phone. my co-worker mentioned the poor battery life while he got it setup. he gave the phone to the user it was intended to. it didnt last a day.

    the guy called saying it wouldnt turn on, it turned out to be that the battery drained.

    question, what if anything gets lost when you lose all power?
    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I guess you should tell Verizon that they are wrong and agree to pay out whatever lawsuit may result because you KNOW that the Treo 650 puts out 5 hours of battery life on Verizon's network. Here you go:

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/s...edPhoneId=1741
    Call your house phone at night (or on the weekend) and leave it on the entire time...then we'll talk about what the real talk time is. It's a lot more than what Verizon says. Verizon is the only source that states it's 150 min or whatever it says.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    What are you yammering about? Data plans on Verizon's networks cost $45 for any practical usage and the cheapest plan is $25. Any other plan will result in a cost far greater with moderate email checking daily. Not only is WiFi faster, it's cheaper (costs nothing in many instances), you can get hold of a connection virtually everywhere (including at home and corporate networks), you can travel and use your phone as an IP Phone (if you are unfamiliar with it, they are also popular outside of MI), and traveling in areas of the country where phone connectivity is poor (go anywhere in upstate NY, etc.) and if you are at a hotel/motel there is almost always at least wireless WiFi connectivity even though there may be no phone service. Your efforts are better investing in complaining to Verizon/Sprint/Palm about releasing the WiFi driver already. WiFi is great. Accept it. EVDO is not an alternative and is damned expensive.
    First of all, I'd just like to point out that Misissippi's initials are 'MS' and not 'MI'...it's a common misconception. MI is Michigan, folks.

    Secondly, I fully understand what WiFi is and all the benefits. I say that the benefits are better placed in a laptop until the Treo's battery life is sufficient, we get a real operating system that can handle VoIP, or WiFi spots are EVERYWHERE. The fact is, though, that they're not everywhere...but cellular towers are (or at least they have a much greater range).

    Thirdly, disregarding the battery life of WiFi devices and the Treo's OS that's incapable of seamlessly handing off CDMA calls to VoWiFi calls...there might be like 4 cities, if even that, that have ubiquitous WiFi where it would be practical to talk on that type of network as opposed to a cellular network. You happen to live in one of them (but I still couldn't imagine it being as ubiquitous as Philidelphia...to the point where you can walk down a street and never skip a beat in your "corporate" conversations; WiFi only has a range of a couple hundred feet at most); but that makes you a minority of a minority. How many people in those 4 large cities care about WiFi on there phone?? Not too many, otherwise you would have gotten it on the 650. As for your hotel/motel example...you'd be staying there at night time, correct?? You've already got free minutes for that...so, it's not practical. The only point where VoIP would be acceptable on a phone is, like you said in another thread, overseas!! I'll give you that one...but you obviously don't travel overseas all that much, because you've got Verizon. So PUH-LEEZE stop with the Wifi nonsense. It's like you're just coming up with every reason that's not related to you to use Wifi.

    And lastly, I didn't say Verizon's data plans were $10/mo...I said you could get data plans for $10/mo (obviously that's Sprint). What carrier you chose to go with is nobody's fault but your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Without being obnoxious you need to get out of Mississippi to see how popular WiFi is. In New York I can hop into WiFi almost anywhere in the city. WiFi is used every day and often, not for emergencies.
    Dude...what makes you think I've never traveled? Stop with the assumptions that because I'm from MS, I don't know what the rest of the country's like. This isn't the 1900's when Mississippians didn't wear shoes and shat in out-houses, alright?

    I'm still not believing that New York is blanketed with Wifi to the point where you can walk down the street and not hit a hiccup in the network...and I don't think you actually believe that either.

    Also, how is WiFi used for emergencies??

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    IF you want to talk about limitations when it comes to browsing, all of us are plagued by the crappy browsers there are for the Palm and the memory limitations, not only in the app but also with the 32 MB (23 usable) of RAM provided with it. From my perspective the browsing is equivalent and most of what I do and many others do is frequent email checking and occasional web browsing.
    Frankly, that doesn't make since to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I'm not happy because WiFi is available for the other Palms but is crippled on the 650. When I see misinformed people rationalizing why WiFi isn't that great, it makes me think that the same people were speaking to the folks at Palm who claimed that the people they surveyed thought the Treo was totally amazing and like 32 MB of RAM was still more than enough. It's in the print. I've had Palms since the 90s and have had 3 Treos, including this one. The companies I've worked with use them longer than you have yours and for purposes that obviously far exceed your usage experience, politely put.
    Why is it that when I say it's not practical for Palm to put WiFi in the Treo...you say that I said it wasn't great. It is great...for laptops. It's not practical...for cell phones...at least not for most. YOU ARE IN THE MINORITY, SLINKY!! If WiFi is THAT important to you, then sell your 650 for a few hundred dollars, and BUY the i730 if that's what you really want. You also never responded to my question of whether you have any experience with the i730...and I'm going to take your lack of a response as a "No, grndslm...I sure don't!"

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    I'm hoping we can have a conversation and you can use your efforts to influence manufacturers rather than informing others here they are wrong because you are concerned about what a local person in MI might want. Who gives a damn whether the Treo is using a Linux based system? In fact, I don't think I recall anyone pining away that they want this either. VFS causes enough problems and now we're talking about Linux? Jeeez...
    I've already told you want I want from Palm - a clamshell tablet phone (such as this one: http://www.siamphone.com/catalog/amoi/g6301.htm) and for them to push PalmSource's release of Palm Linux (which they surprisingly did shortly after I mentioned it: http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=7946) And I, for one, care whether any device I use, not just the Treo, is Linux-based or not (I just gave you reasons in another thread).

    Since we already got the MI isn't the same as Mississippi issue outta the way...lemme correct you in that VFS (Virtual FileSystem) isn't the same as NVFS (Non-Volatile FileSystem). The 650 and T5 were the first devices to use NVFS. Palm was unaware of the allocation problem when they originally released the phone, but luckily it was a software fix - and we got it already.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Not every phone is a threat to the Treo 650. Regarding WiFi, if you just take a little trip to NY, Chicago, LA, Boston -- places where there is a much larger demand for PDA-phones than Mississippi by sheer numbers -- you will have an understanding just how ubiquitous WiFi really is. WiFi is huge and given a choice of also spending $45 per month on data makes the Treo 650 not palatable at all. The speed and accessibility also trump the Treo by great margins. Do you have any idea how long it takes me to download email using my phone versus WiFi? I'd say that it probably takes 5-8 times longer using the phone, at a MINIMUM.
    Again, I'm not getting into the ubiquity of WiFi in metropolitan cities (from what I've heard though, Philidelphia would be the only city where VoWiFi would be practical though...and in a couple years all that time and money they invested will be shot because of WiMax).

    It doesn't take me long at all to download email using my phone as I download the headers first, then the message when I want it....not long at all, considering I get it within a minute of someone sending it to me. That's right...it might take 5-8 times longer using your phone than your PC. But my question for you is can you put your PC in your pocket and get online access from anywhere in this country?

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Whoops. I didn't realize you were one of those people who told Palm that 32 MB of RAM was far more than enough. The RAM thing was messup up for a small fraction of users? Hmmm... comments like that will make you lose credibility amongst users very quickly (although gain points with Palm's clueless marketing team.) I don't think I've ever heard of any piece of technology where the processor got more powerful, the footrpint of the OS was larger and the RAM stayed the same.
    Umm...there've already been polls to how many people ran out of that 23MB of usable RAM. As I recall, it was a small fraction. Look it up for yourself if you want. The only people that should really be affected by it are people with LARGE contacts/calendars, and I'm not afraid to admit I'm not one in that minority.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Politely put, I can understand your enthusiasm. Don't get me wrong, I like having the coolest gadget on the block too. We can't do much about the RAM issue (I remember those cool RAM upgrades for the Vx) but we can do something about WiFi drivers. I sincerely hope you get a chance to travel, perhaps to NY, LA or Chicago, and see what is out there in the very large metro areas. You'll probably be amazed at how popular it is and how many people use it every day... no worries.
    I've been to NY and LA, plus a vast number of other large cities...so what?? I couldn't use WiFi every step of the block. I can use my Treo though...for directions, directory look ups, just about anything that's practical on a 2" x 2" screen.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    Heck, I hope Palm and Verizon/Sprint get out of their ivory towers. WiFi capability is a serious threat. Only 32 MB of RAM (The Samsung has over 100MB?) is ludicrous and to even imply that it "only affects the minority" is flat out rationalizing and inaccurate. They NEED to stay current or else netting greater profits isn't going to mean a thing if the next version will have even less appeal.
    WiFi is of no threat to wireless carriers, anywhere. Sprint was never in any ivory towers because they saw what was really bigger than WiFi...WIMAX!! That's why they bought Nextel, to use the frequency range of their iDen network.

    Also, Palm apps take up a lot less space than PPC apps. That's why PPC needs more ram than Palm does. Sure Palm could use more...but there are always tradeoffs.

    Quote Originally Posted by slinky
    PS - Another HUGE advantage of WiFi -- it doesn't use up existing minutes of usage. You can surf for an hour during lunch and it won't eat up 60 minutes of "talk time." On the Treo 650, I feel those minutes ticking away during peak hours...
    As those who posted before me stated, surfing does not eat up your minutes of talk time. HAH...but what WiFi would eat up A LOT more than 60 minutes of talk time is BATTERY LIFE. You'd be bone dry before you knew it.

    Slinky, you really need to visit the rest of the country and see that WiFi isn't practical on their cell phones. Bluetooth for local-range, and Cellular Networks for long-range. The vast majority of people could do without WiFi!!!
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    what is killing the battery? wi-fi or evdo?
    I clearly don't have one, but I'd imagine it being a mixture of PPC, WiFi, and EV-DO all rolled into one battery hogging device. Honestly, if this device had even a DECENT battery life, I prolly wouldn't rag on it so much. But when you can't use it for half a day without having to change the battery, I just call that bad design. If you're willing to deal with trade-offs like that, be my guest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    at work, we are currently testing this phone. my co-worker mentioned the poor battery life while he got it setup. he gave the phone to the user it was intended to. it didnt last a day.

    question, what if anything gets lost when you lose all power?
    That is a good question...does the i730 have NVFS?
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    WiFi is of no threat to wireless carriers, anywhere. !!!
    That's a new one. This issue recieved tremendous press and the WiFi threat was a given and allegedly a primary reason Palm witheld releasing WiFi capabilities. It's also common sense. Instead of paying $45 per month for Internet access (Verizon is by far the most popular network in NY, but it's still $15 for Sprint users and I think $40+ for Cingular and tMobile), users would simply hop onto WiFi hotspots in major metropolitan areas. Hotspots are ubiquitous. Kaching!!!!

    Sprint was never in any ivory towers because they saw what was really bigger than WiFi...WIMAX!! That's why they bought Nextel, to use the frequency range of their iDen network.!!!
    I admire your enthusiasm for technology but companies (and people) don't just throw away money because they see technology that will be the wave of the future. As above, years worth of revenues would have been lost if the 600 was released with WiFi capability.

    Also, Palm apps take up a lot less space than PPC apps. That's why PPC needs more ram than Palm does. Sure Palm could use more...but there are always tradeoffs.
    That explains why the Tungsten C came equipped with 64 MB of RAM *years* ago and why the 650 was not upgraded over a prior mode's 32 MB.Unfortunately we (and you) must accept the hard truth that our favorite little device is unfortunately crippled with 32 MB RAM due to a lame brained decision on Palm's part to cut corners and pocket the small change. The i730 comes with 64MB of internal RAM, 128MB of flash memory (more than 80MB of which is available for program storage.) As mentioned before, many business apps simply cannot be run especially since databases of size must be loaded -- ever try loading a Mapopolis map for a major city? You practically need 6-10 MB of free space. With 22MB+ of usable RAM, that's HALF your total storage and working RAM. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

    As those who posted before me stated, surfing does not eat up your minutes of talk time. HAH...but what WiFi would eat up A LOT more than 60 minutes of talk time is BATTERY LIFE. You'd be bone dry before you knew it.
    Most only need to check and send email regularly during the day and with WiFi that's a quick send/receive. For $40-45 per month , people will carry an extra battery or travel adapter. They do it in Starbucks all the time with their laptops. You just don't see them in MI.

    Slinky, you really need to visit the rest of the country and see that WiFi isn't practical on their cell phones. Bluetooth for local-range, and Cellular Networks for long-range. The vast majority of people could do without WiFi!!!
    I admittedly don't know first hand what needs the people in Mississippi have. Respectfully, it may do you some good to just listen what others who use these devices in very large metropolitan areas, which influence the decisionmakers.

    A statement like yours completely undermines your credibility. People in NY, Chicago, LA and Boston would laugh hysterically. It is standard to have a WiFi enabled laptop and there are reasons why these cities are littered with people using them in every conceivable area. Hop into virtually any store and you'll see someone eating lunch with their WiFi enabled device.
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