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  1.    #1  
    -My $0.02...EDGE was welcome and all, but I pray against all reason that the release of the i730 and other EVDO/UMTS devices will light a fire under Palm's slow moving, fat *** to release a broadband Treo -ghileman

    Samsung Phone Offers Wireless
    Broadband, But It Has Drawbacks
    June 23, 2005; Page B1

    For Americans who want a smart cellphone with a built-in keyboard for typing email, the best choice by far has been PalmOne's Treo 650, sold by most major U.S. wireless carriers.

    The standard BlackBerry hand-helds from Research In Motion make clunky phones, and the slimmer BlackBerry 7100, while an acceptable phone, lacks a full keyboard. The models using Microsoft's hand-held software have either lacked keyboards altogether or been too large to make comfortable phones. In contrast, the Treo is both roomy enough to be a good hand-held email device and compact enough to be a good phone.

    Starting today, Verizon Wireless will introduce in the U.S. the first Microsoft-based smart phone with a built-in keyboard that is about the same shape, size and weight as the Treo. This new phone, the $599 Samsung i730, has one major capability the $399 Treo lacks -- the ability to surf the Web and to send and receive email at broadband speeds.
    WALL STREET JOURNAL VIDEO
    [logo]
    Samsung's new phone offers wireless broadband, but has drawbacks, says Walt Mossberg.1




    The new Samsung can operate at speeds roughly comparable to home digital subscriber line, or DSL, connections through Verizon's wireless Broadband Access network, which works on a wireless technology called EVDO. Or it can use speedy Wi-Fi wireless networking at places like coffee shops and airports.

    I don't expect to see an EVDO-capable Treo until very late this year or early in 2006. And the Treo lacks Wi-Fi capability. So the Samsung is the fastest email and Web device with a built-in keyboard that is small enough to be used comfortably as a phone. It will be available starting today for corporate customers and will be in Verizon stores in a couple of weeks.
    [Samsung i730]
    Samsung i730



    I have been testing the new i730 and comparing it to the Treo 650 from Sprint that I carry as my own phone. The Samsung worked as promised for making voice calls, accessing Web sites, and sending and receiving emails. It also played music and videos and displayed photos, though unlike my Sprint Treo, the configuration Verizon sells lacks a camera.

    In my tests, I was able to get on the Web with the i730 at speeds ranging from 220 kilobits a second to 534 kilobits a second, which is between three and eight times as fast as the Treo's average speed of 70 kilobits a second. And that was on the Verizon EVDO network, which is available in most major U.S. cities. Using the phone's Wi-Fi capability, in my home and at a hotel, I was able to push the speed to nearly 700 kbps.

    There were some things about the i730 that drove me nuts compared with the Treo. It has much worse battery life. The Microsoft Pocket PC software it uses is much harder to navigate one-handed, as phones should be used, than the Palm software on the Treo. Even when doing simple tasks, i730 users will have to employ the stylus, and two hands, far more often than Treo users do.

    Unlike the Treo, whose keyboard is always visible beneath a square screen, the i730's keyboard is hidden beneath its rectangular screen and slides out for use. The keys are a little more widely spaced than the Treo's, though they are flatter and less pronounced. I found typing on the i730 to be about as fast as on the Treo.

    The new Samsung isn't quite as small as the Treo, but it is close. With its keyboard tucked out of sight for making phone calls, it is slightly narrower than the Treo but slightly thicker and longer. It also weighs a bit more. However, when the Samsung's keyboard is slid out for writing email, it becomes far longer. To dial a call without the keyboard extended, you have to use a virtual number pad on the screen.

    The i730's screen is larger, but it offers less resolution than the Treo's. Both phones use a five-way navigation pad, four buttons for calling up various functions, and traditional red and green buttons for starting and ending phone calls.

    The Samsung has 64 megabytes of memory, double the Treo's internal capacity, though this is offset by the fact that its Microsoft software needs more memory than does the Treo's Palm software. Both phones accept standard SD memory cards. I was able to pop the memory card from my Treo into the Samsung, and it played or displayed the music and photos I had stored there. Unlike the Treo, the Samsung has stereo speakers.

    Like the Treo, the Samsung offers Bluetooth wireless networking, a short-range technology for use with some cars and wireless headphones and for synchronizing data with PCs.

    In addition to its increased need for the stylus and two hands, the i730 has some other drawbacks. In my tests, its standard battery died in far less than a full day and far faster than my Treo's battery, which typically lasts me for a whole day of moderate phone-call use and heavy email use.

    You can't use the Samsung's Wi-Fi and cellphone capabilities at the same time, and it can't hand off your Internet connection from one wireless technology to the other. And, unlike my Sprint Treo, the Verizon i730 can't be used as a modem for a laptop. These limitations probably stem more from business decisions by Verizon than from technological limitations.

    Finally, the i730 is $200 more than the Treo 650. But if you prefer Microsoft's software to Palm's or crave having wireless broadband in a phone, the Samsung i730 is a good choice.

    Write to Walter S. Mossberg at walt.mossberg@wsj.com2
    Last edited by ghileman; 06/24/2005 at 11:15 AM.
    Off to iPhone land...
  2. #2  
    -My $0.02...EDGE was welcome and all, but I pray against all reason that the release of the i730 this and other EVDO/UMTS devices will light a fire under Palm's slow moving, fat *** to release a broadband Treo -ghileman
    Interesting reading. I think it will push palm to release something new (and I don't think palm necessarily needs pushing...they know they have to play the game and put something out that improves on some previous design).

    I need to go a day between charges...and I like the one handed nav and size of the treo. Slider keyboards dont give me enough incentive to use them (cause its just that extra annoying step).

    If sprint puts out built in wifi, little more memory, bt 1.2, and a 1mp camera...it will be its own treo killer.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  3. #3  
    I'll respond the same way to all "treo killer" threads. It ain't a palm with all the lovely apps we insist on using despite their abilty to cause resets.
  4. #4  
    sliding out a keyboard is clumbsy when driving, etc.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ghileman
    ...I pray against all reason that the release of the i730 this and other EVDO/UMTS devices will light a fire under Palm's slow moving, fat *** to release a broadband Treo -ghileman
    Amen, brother.
    -->BtDUN pre- and post- SprintPCS update 1.12 paired to PC and PPC.
    Darth_Maul -- a dark attacker, trained in the Jedi arts.
  6. #6  
    They can run all of our buggy apps on their buggy OS too!

    Palm emulator on PPC called StyleTap...unfortunately.

    http://styletap.com/
  7. #7  
    I have a couple of Doctor friends that went from palm to pocket pc's and back because of medical programs they used regularly. How good is that emulator. bugs times bugs sounds like it could get pretty awful.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzytom
    They can run all of our buggy apps on their buggy OS too!

    Palm emulator on PPC called StyleTap...unfortunately.

    http://styletap.com/
    Before this incarnation of a PalmOS emulator for the PPC, there was PocketPalm. But, it never came to fruition, partly due to litigation I believe:

    http://www.pdaphonehome.com/forums/s...&threadid=5925
    -->BtDUN pre- and post- SprintPCS update 1.12 paired to PC and PPC.
    Darth_Maul -- a dark attacker, trained in the Jedi arts.
  9. #9  
    And here's a PalmOS emulator for the Sharp Zarus:

    http://www.climov.com/zaurus/qpose/

    Looks like everyone's trying to be like Palm!
    -->BtDUN pre- and post- SprintPCS update 1.12 paired to PC and PPC.
    Darth_Maul -- a dark attacker, trained in the Jedi arts.
  10. #10  
    I don't expect to see an EVDO-capable Treo until very late this year or early in 2006.
    This fits in with most other rumors regarding the next gen Treo. I also doubt the next iteration will have wifi though...

    In regards to the i730, it is a nice looking device and the slider keyboard is interesting. However just like the MDA III/PDA2K, the bigeest criticism of a slider keyboard design imo is the lack of adequate one-handed functionality. Sliding a keyboard just seems like one more step to do in normal operations. The counter arguement is that the i730 has a larger screen, but it is a lower resolution screen!
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  11. V of HB's Avatar
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    #11  
    i saw the same report BUT i will be loyal to TREO until they come out with an EVDO version which the report says might be coming out middle of next year.
  12. jstpa's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by lyndon_h
    sliding out a keyboard is clumbsy when driving, etc.
    Using a phone is clumbsy when driving
  13. jstpa's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by V of HB
    i saw the same report BUT i will be loyal to TREO until they come out with an EVDO version which the report says might be coming out middle of next year.

    Middle of NEXT year!!!!!!!! That's ridiculous. If I thought they'd have one soon, I might stick around, but another year??? No way.
  14. #14  
    Is it easy to hack the Samsung into eithering with a laptop? Seriously what good is wifi and EVDO if you can't use it as a modem. Edge is quite fast if you just want to stream music and whatever.

    Overall I am quite impressed by Samsung's ability to stuff the windows OS inside a Treo sized phone.
  15. #15  
    The next Treo version is due out in the Mar 06 timeframe. At the rate I'm pulling down EV-DO data right now, you folks waiting for that Treo will be about 20 gb of data behind me (averaging close to 2 gb/mo).
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    Is it easy to hack the Samsung into eithering with a laptop? Seriously what good is wifi and EVDO if you can't use it as a modem.
    Traditonally, bluetooth is used to set up BtDUN. But I guess that you could use WiFi in ad hoc mode to have the cellphone function as a wireless modem.
    -->BtDUN pre- and post- SprintPCS update 1.12 paired to PC and PPC.
    Darth_Maul -- a dark attacker, trained in the Jedi arts.
  17. g.711's Avatar
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    #17  
    I thought I would chime in and pump up the treo world and lay your fears to rest. I had the t300,t600 and t650 till march then jumped on the 6600 due to Company requirements and standardization .

    For me the Treo is just plain hands down; bar none handier to use on a day to day basis. Calling, Email, SMS, cost per application ($$$) The Treo wins on all counts for average day to day usage.

    I do love the 6600 for what it can do and many of the features I enjoy. EVDO, Screen Size big point for my pc screen weakened eyes, Sync features, raw power, integration and the such. I always felt that one handed usage is a bit overly posted cause you get use to what ever device you have. But I can now say that it does matter when you need to make a quick call or jot down a quick note.

    The point is donít be swayed by the hype - Treo650 is #1 it gets the job done for what you use 90% of the time.

    Be happy
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.711
    ... The point is donít be swayed by the hype - Treo650 is #1 it gets the job done for what you use 90% of the time.

    Be happy
    Another point is: be swayed by whatever you want to be swayed by. Be happier.
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    The next Treo version is due out in the Mar 06 timeframe. At the rate I'm pulling down EV-DO data right now, you folks waiting for that Treo will be about 20 gb of data behind me (averaging close to 2 gb/mo).
    Can you give me a break down on what do you download on your cellphone in that kind of speed? I don't mean to poopoo on new technology.

    I work for a cable internet company. I get high speed at home and at work. At this stage, I don't even care about download speed (becuase 1.5mbs is faster than what a normal server can give you.) All I care about is upload speed due to the p2p programs I use. In other words, I am a big downloader. And I don't know what can you do with 600Kbits that you can't do with 200kbits on your cell phone. And I am not talking about eithering mode here.

    I would put bluetooth 1.2 way higher priority than faster speed myself.
  20. sledgie's Avatar
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    #20  
    a good amount of people have been able to average around 500-600 with sprint and anywhere between 400-700 with verizon... i even saw some speeds with sprint in the 900kbit range.. pretty impressive for a cell phone... as for what you can do, you can do lots; stream videos, watch movies off your computer, watch tv if you have a tv card... satellite, video conferencing... possibilities are endless

    plus browsing is...well....1000000000x faster. it's all about HDR channels folks!


    when you see sprint at 400-800kbit/s downloading vs 60-100kbit you suddenly notice what you've been missing. browsing at 1xrtt or edge after evdo seems like dialup vs dsl
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