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  1. #21  
    Yeah, this one is okay, but the HTC you mention is not.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Yeah, this one is okay, but the HTC you mention is not.
    oh my bad
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    #23  
    If this device is spec'd as expected for thr US market I will be one of the first to buy one (and switch carriers).
  4. #24  
    well i hope that they will not release it until they do the upgrades they promised...mainly to put in WM 2k5
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    #25  
    agreed.
  6. #26  
    Well - it looks like it is now available . . .

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=5788803743
    Last edited by rbenjami; 07/11/2005 at 03:55 PM.
  7. #28  
    so I'm in London, walk in to a store, saw the 6515 and bought it. I am sick and tired of having the 650 which crashed 10x a day (because not enough memory for Goodlink email plus one other critical app) and desperate to find something reliable.

    BUT...

    after one day, I can't stand the 6515. its windows! its 5 clicks to do one task. its a slow machine! the 650 is faster! the machine is bigger (but thinner) which I would live with, but the keyboard is very poor and the screen LOUSY when compared to the treo. I missed the treo! I felt like I had bad eyes! I liked the GPS but its not critical. finally rhe phone app is very poor. for example, to add a call or conference, you need to go 'options, conference' etc... while the pal is one click. I still believe windows is designed by engineers who don't use smartphones.

    so, even though I hate how ridiculously unreliable my 650 is, I decided to return the 6515 and go back to my 650. I wanted to like the 6515 but it felt like I was going backwards (and I have owned PPC devices in the past).

    bottom line: all I want is a treo 650 that works! its no big deal for Palm to give is 128mb memory (which would fix most issues). if they add GPS and wifi, and fix all the bugs (and maybe make the device slimmer) then what else would I want?

    the problem with these treo killers is that none of them ever meet expecations. why can't someone get it right???
  8. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by ekerbuddy
    so I'm in London, walk in to a store, saw the 6515 and bought it. I am sick and tired of having the 650 which crashed 10x a day (because not enough memory for Goodlink email plus one other critical app) and desperate to find something reliable.

    BUT...

    after one day, I can't stand the 6515. its windows! its 5 clicks to do one task. its a slow machine! the 650 is faster! the machine is bigger (but thinner) which I would live with, but the keyboard is very poor and the screen LOUSY when compared to the treo. I missed the treo! I felt like I had bad eyes! I liked the GPS but its not critical. finally rhe phone app is very poor. for example, to add a call or conference, you need to go 'options, conference' etc... while the pal is one click. I still believe windows is designed by engineers who don't use smartphones.

    so, even though I hate how ridiculously unreliable my 650 is, I decided to return the 6515 and go back to my 650. I wanted to like the 6515 but it felt like I was going backwards (and I have owned PPC devices in the past).

    bottom line: all I want is a treo 650 that works! its no big deal for Palm to give is 128mb memory (which would fix most issues). if they add GPS and wifi, and fix all the bugs (and maybe make the device slimmer) then what else would I want?

    the problem with these treo killers is that none of them ever meet expecations. why can't someone get it right???
    Well....the Treo was the only convergence device on the market for a few years....it took Handspring/Palm many years to get it right. The "Treo killers", naturally, haven't been around as long so it'll take 'em awhile. But when they all start getting it right, Palm won't be able to compete with companies that are putting millions, some perhaps even putting billions into this market. Palm just doesn't know how good they have it made now. All they need is some marketing experts and some decent customer support.....the HARD WORK is over for them.
  9. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by grndslm
    Well....the Treo was the only convergence device on the market for a few years....it took Handspring/Palm many years to get it right. The "Treo killers", naturally, haven't been around as long so it'll take 'em awhile. But when they all start getting it right, Palm won't be able to compete with companies that are putting millions, some perhaps even putting billions into this market. Palm just doesn't know how good they have it made now. All they need is some marketing experts and some decent customer support.....the HARD WORK is over for them.
    what does UIQ and PPC devices need to fix before they dominate the PalmOS phones? (reason for me asking is because I am probably going to buy the HW6515 or HTC Wizard)
  10. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by hofo_mofo
    what does UIQ and PPC devices need to fix before they dominate the PalmOS phones? (reason for me asking is because I am probably going to buy the HW6515 or HTC Wizard)
    More focus on the use of the device as a phone first and a computing device second. Palm - well Handspring, actually - finally figured that out with the treo 600 (on try number 4 after Visorphone, Treo 180, Treo 300). The vast majority of their users, while interested in computing capability/convergence, still wanted a reliable, easy to use phone first.

    PPC - or Windows Mobile - is still figuring that part out. The computing part of their phones are generally excellent, but the utility of the phone portion varies widely between manufacturers and even in its best rendition (perhaps the i730 of you exclude smartphones) still is a little shy of the Treo. Windows Smartphone doesn't work well either. The computing portion is emasculated while the phone portion remains mediocre at best. In any case, the "convergence" of WM phones isn't as converged as Treos yet.

    Folks have a lot of high hopes for WM5. The touted better integration between the PPC software and the phone functions will go a long way towards the final convergence goal. One handed use (already equivalent to the Treo in the i730) will also see improvement as a core part of the OS instead of something the manufacturer is responsible for (like Samsung had to do for the i730).

    That's what PPC phones need to fix to technologically dominate Treos. In general, PPC OS is already dominating Palm OS in the marketplace.
  11. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by hofo_mofo
    what does UIQ and PPC devices need to fix before they dominate the PalmOS phones? (reason for me asking is because I am probably going to buy the HW6515 or HTC Wizard)
    Nothing .. the Samsung i730 dominates the Treo today =) Get one !
  12. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Kupe
    More focus on the use of the device as a phone first and a computing device second. Palm - well Handspring, actually - finally figured that out with the treo 600 (on try number 4 after Visorphone, Treo 180, Treo 300). The vast majority of their users, while interested in computing capability/convergence, still wanted a reliable, easy to use phone first.

    PPC - or Windows Mobile - is still figuring that part out. The computing part of their phones are generally excellent, but the utility of the phone portion varies widely between manufacturers and even in its best rendition (perhaps the i730 of you exclude smartphones) still is a little shy of the Treo. Windows Smartphone doesn't work well either. The computing portion is emasculated while the phone portion remains mediocre at best. In any case, the "convergence" of WM phones isn't as converged as Treos yet.

    Folks have a lot of high hopes for WM5. The touted better integration between the PPC software and the phone functions will go a long way towards the final convergence goal. One handed use (already equivalent to the Treo in the i730) will also see improvement as a core part of the OS instead of something the manufacturer is responsible for (like Samsung had to do for the i730).

    That's what PPC phones need to fix to technologically dominate Treos. In general, PPC OS is already dominating Palm OS in the marketplace.
    Uh .. what about the phone in the i730 is mediocre ? Its faster dialing .. has MUCH better volume .. about equiv voice quality .. you can dial via voice command via bt ...
  13. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by riekl
    Uh .. what about the phone in the i730 is mediocre ? Its faster dialing .. has MUCH better volume .. about equiv voice quality .. you can dial via voice command via bt ...
    A few things come to mind:

    1. Integration between the phone and Contacts is how the Treo was back in the 180/300 timeframe. It's kinda kludgey, but you can still work it one handed.
    2. SMS (which is arguably a phone service now since most phones have it) is really just Pocket Outlook - and not well integrated with the phone.
    3. The auto-sync/push email interrupts your ability to dial out.
    4. Unless you're in an EVDO region, all calls coming to your phone when data is active are sent to voicemail.
    5. The screen blacks out immediately after a phone call connects - even if you set it to do otherwise.

    Those are the lingering issues - some of the other ones have already been hacked, but the phone didn't have them out of the box - like:

    1. BT voice dialing (still inconsistent, but being worked on).
    2. Goofy phone dialer screen when the keyboard is exposed (Hacked .DLL available)
    3. Phone and wifi simultaneously (hacked, but buggy .DLL available)
    4. Silly balloon indicator stacks too many icons on top of each other (voice mail, missed call, headset, EV, 1X, etc) - (reg hack partially resolves this).
    5. No built in missed call/voicemail/sms/email counter (Phone alarm partially solves this).

    I like the volume. People say I sound very clear to them. BT connectivity is nice. "Free" ringtones are a bonus. Size is decent for a PDA phone. Nothing exceptional as a phone - just solid, basic service. Medium, average, mediocre.
  14. #35  
    Hrm .. not sure we are using the same phone =)

    On the phone dialer screen there is a nice contacts button .. you hit it and then hit the contact you want to call .. what is kludgey about this ? Besides which i cant imagine ever needing to dial that way i do 100% of my contact dialing via voice signal.

    SMS .. yea pocket outlook .. so ? SMS msgs on the treo arent all that well managed either

    Only WHILE mail is being pushed which was the same thing on the treo ? at least with sprint, if theres an active 1xrr connection phone calls go to VM. Thats not a phone limitation.

    Yep . again .. the SAME problem exists with the treo cause its not a phone problem its a service limitation.

    No clue what you are talkinga bout .. when my calls connect my screen is still active and i haven't performed any hacks.

    BT voice dialing is largely dependent on your BT device, mine is 90+% accurate .. maybe twice a day i have to repeat a contact name, thats lightyears ahead of the completely non existant feature on the treo

    Ok i really want to understand this problem as i see it even in the i730 forums but i dont get it. I have not installed the hacked dll but dialing is flawless ? When the keyboard is in you can use the numbers on the screen,w hen the keyboard is popped out you can use the numbers on the keyboard .. whats the problem ?

    Yep .. hacked dll isnt really buggy tho it works flawlessly for me i've used it for the last 36 hours without a single hickup in phone or wifi service ...

    Yea the balloon indicator sucks .. point granted

    Well SMS/VM yes .. although there is ab uilt in unread email counter .. and yes phone alarm COMPLETELY solves it ..

    So while you can point out a few very small oddities the point is that using the i730 sa a PHONE is a more pleasant experience then using the Treo as a phone. Dont get me wrong I had my treo 650 for 6 months and praised it up and down to everyone i met. It still has some bonuses. But I find phone use in the i730 to be such a relief after always fighting with the 650.
  15. #36  
    sorry to interject but am i the only one that thinks the 6515 looks astonishingly like the Motorola Q? or is it the other way around?

    seems all the companies are trying to derive their own model from the original blackberry and treo.. and somehow, they all derive the same thing.. or just copy other people's models..
    Most people use their phone to talk... i use mine for everything else..
  16. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by riekl
    On the phone dialer screen there is a nice contacts button .. you hit it and then hit the contact you want to call .. what is kludgey about this ?
    Try it with 900+ contacts - it's way Kludgier than the Treo.
    Besides which i cant imagine ever needing to dial that way i do 100% of my contact dialing via voice signal.
    I assume that's with just the regular phone and not BT? Even with the regular phone mike (or a wired headset) VS is only about 80% accurate (even with the new "improved" beta I'm testing).
    SMS .. yea pocket outlook .. so ? SMS msgs on the treo arent all that well managed either
    Try one-handing an SMS reply on both phones and tell me which one is easier. No comparison.
    Only WHILE mail is being pushed which was the same thing on the treo ? at least with sprint, if theres an active 1xrr connection phone calls go to VM. Thats not a phone limitation.
    It's a poor OS implementation on the 1XRTT system. Not only when you are pushing mail - any time you are either actively downloading, streaming, or dormant this happens - the Treo doesn't do this when you're dormant.
    Yep . again .. the SAME problem exists with the treo cause its not a phone problem its a service limitation.
    Again, not true - a dormant data connection is interrupted to let the phone call through on the Treo - also true in the GSM world.
    No clue what you are talkinga bout .. when my calls connect my screen is still active and i haven't performed any hacks.
    You need to do more reading over at PDAPhonehome then. The screen backlight goes off immediately upon connection - as confirmed by Verizon. The Settings -> Power -> Misc -> Phone -> "Turn off LCD after..." setting isn't functioning correctly. You need to add an additional key input to get the backlight back on after connecting a call.
    BT voice dialing is largely dependent on your BT device, mine is 90+% accurate .. maybe twice a day i have to repeat a contact name, thats lightyears ahead of the completely non existant feature on the treo
    Please name your BT device. Only one device on PDAPhonehome has a dialing accuracy of ~80% with VS (which I assume you are using based on your earlier comment). Over 11 other headsets range in accuracy from ~0% to 50%.
    Ok i really want to understand this problem as i see it even in the i730 forums but i dont get it. I have not installed the hacked dll but dialing is flawless ? When the keyboard is in you can use the numbers on the screen,w hen the keyboard is popped out you can use the numbers on the keyboard .. whats the problem ?
    No problem - I said it was goofy. Kind of hard to dial 800-EAT-THIS when your number keys read: WER,SDF,ZXC. THat's why a hack was developed - most people thought it was goofy to change a perfectly good screen of phone keys into a pointless message to look at the keyboard you just opened up.
    Yep .. hacked dll isnt really buggy tho it works flawlessly for me i've used it for the last 36 hours without a single hickup in phone or wifi service ...
    Then you haven't used speakerphone or tried to enter flight mode (shut off the phone's radio) using the "hold end key for 5 seconds" as the phone was designed to do. Superdave has acknowledged his patch has messed up both those functions and is (I hope) working a solution.
    Well SMS/VM yes .. although there is ab uilt in unread email counter .. and yes phone alarm COMPLETELY solves it ..
    Phone alarm mostly solved it over the weekend with the release of ver 1.23.2 (since 1.23.1 still didn't work right). PhoneALarm's Signal strength indicater is back to being flakey again though and the thread has folks reporting inconsistent results.
    So while you can point out a few very small oddities the point is that using the i730 sa a PHONE is a more pleasant experience then using the Treo as a phone. Dont get me wrong I had my treo 650 for 6 months and praised it up and down to everyone i met. It still has some bonuses. But I find phone use in the i730 to be such a relief after always fighting with the 650.
    I find the i730 to be a vastly superior PDA to the Treo - and living in an EVDO region the connectivity is beyond compare. But as a basic pick-it-up-and-use-it-as-a-phone-without-reading-the-instructions, the Treo wins hands down. The i730 is certainly usable as a phone, but has no where near the convergence the Treo has. I've owned every model Treo since the VisorPhone (180, 300, 270, 600, 650) plus the kyo 7135. On the PPC side I've owned an i600 smartphone and the XV6600 and now the i730. I'm never going back to Palm OS, but I will be an even happier camper when Windows Mobile finally learns how to truly integrate a phone and a PDA by making a Phone-PDA, not a PDA-Phone.
  17. #38  
    Dude .. you need to use an i730 Dormant data connections _DO_ let phone calls through !! Just like the treo .. that takes care of a lot of your complaints right there.

    Secondly maybe your voice is different but i have 95+% accuracy on the i730 itself and 80%+ on the BT and i'm not making that up, there may be one call per WEEK i have to repeat to the i730 and maybe one/day when using BT VR ...


    Hope you continue to enjoy your i730 .. and find out why your dormant data calls dont come in !
  18. #39  
    You need to post these fantastic results on PDAPhoneHome Riekl. Both of your findings will be huge news to the rest of the l730 users. After all, you've had your phone for what, 3 days now (based on your post in PDAPhoneHome "Things I miss from my Treo...") and only have to repeat one call "per WEEK" (not sure how that that math works out - you must have extrapolated). Have you figured out how to turn off your i730 yet, expert?
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    #40  
    Meanwhile, back to the HP iPaq hw6515...

    I wasn't really interested in this PDA, until I found out it had GPS!

    The addition of GPS to a smartphone makes a huge difference to me. It is an example of 'integration' which is genuinely useful.

    However, no-one has said what the GPS reception is like inside a car. The dedicated GPS makers like Garmin have large antennas, and they have to be put under your wind shield/screen before they can get a signal.
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