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  1.    #1  
    More NEWS

    QUOTE: "The first editions of RoadSync to incorporate the ActiveSync protocol will be available in May 2005 (emphasis added) for the Symbian OS based UIQ platform, Palm OS, and select Java MIDP 2.0 devices, such as the Sony Ericsson P900 series, palmOne Treo and Motorola RAZR respectively."

    QUOTE: "Our goal is to enable our customers to achieve the next level of mobility in their ‘Office life’ by providing full access to their Outlook data, regardless of their chosen device or platform.” said **** Fontana, president and CEO of DataViz, Inc. “With RoadSync for Symbian UIQ, Palm OS and Java available in May, followed by phased implementations for BREW and Nokia’s Series 60 and Series 80 platforms throughout this year (emphasis added), we will enable many to easily take their ‘Office life’ wireless, sooner, rather than later."

    Review their timeline, but here's their pricing:

    "Introductory pricing will range between $49-$99 for a single-user
    license depending on the product platform. Corporate volume
    discounts and deployment options will also be available upon release."

    Of course, for Palm lovers, the "good news" is that it works on almost every palm OS device...including the Treo 600.

    But I am not sure that's good for the Treo 650. In fact, if this software syncs Contacts and Tasks over the air (please note that a cursory reading doesn't say it does, so maybe it won't), then that would make the Treo 650 LESS capable than any device running this new client...

    I actually am wondering if they wrote the builtin client in the Treo 650 for Palm?
  2. Silver5's Avatar
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    #2  
    There are no nails. There is no coffin. These posts are pointless.
  3. #3  
    how can this be a nail in the coffin of the Treo, when RoadSync works on both the 650 and 600, and also when VersaMail on the 650 also hooks into Exchange ActiveSync? I would tend to think the opposite - the more that EAS proliferates, it's more of a nail in Good or Seven or Intellisync.
    Your prior rant on Nokia (it was Nokia, right?) licensing EAS was misguided as well - as I recall, your point was that prior to that deal, palmOne had an advantage with EAS, and now that (Nokia - if that's who it was) also had it, then that was going to be a big blow to palmOne. What that rant failed to mention was that Motorola had licensed EAS after palmOne did, and well before Nokia did their deal, and that didn't kill Treo sales. So - there.
    Bottom line is that probably all devices are going to have some form of Exchange Active Sync connectivity eventually, be it embedded (Windows Mobile) or via an add-on (VersaMail or RoadSync or whatever). They'll all be able to connect. So the real possible losers in that scenario aren't the devices, it's the middleware guys. Of course it won't happen overnight, but if you look at history, any market that Microsoft puts its ammo on, gets taken over. So what is MS - ? They're an OS (devices and PCs and servers), and groupware server (Exchange and all related) company. I wouldn't want to be PalmSource or Good or, dare I say it - RIM. The one thing they're NOT is a device maker. So - for palmOne and MOT and NOK to license EAS makes perfect sense. They'll all be able to compete on fair ground.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by barky81
    nail....blah blah blah....coffin....blah blah blah

    Are you selling tickets to the funeral?
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  5.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    how can this be a nail in the coffin of the Treo, when RoadSync works on both the 650 and 600, and also when VersaMail on the 650 also hooks into Exchange ActiveSync? I would tend to think the opposite - the more that EAS proliferates, it's more of a nail in Good or Seven or Intellisync.
    How is it GOOD for the Treo, that there are MORE EQUALLY CAPABLE device choices for buyers to choose from? (After all, that's what helped PalmOne to continue to grow marketshare in the PDA market, huh?)

    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    Your prior rant on Nokia (it was Nokia, right?) licensing EAS was misguided as well - as I recall, your point was that prior to that deal, palmOne had an advantage with EAS, and now that (Nokia - if that's who it was) also had it, then that was going to be a big blow to palmOne. What that rant failed to mention was that Motorola had licensed EAS after palmOne did, and well before Nokia did their deal, and that didn't kill Treo sales. So - there.
    Actually, no, my prior "rant" was not on Nokia. It was Symbian's licensing. That aside, Motorola originally licensed Microsoft's Smartphone OS, and then it did license Activesync for a non-Microsoft device...which still doesn't appear to be readily available yet. So how you expected it to overly dramatically affect current sales, I don't know. On the other hand, I have repeatedly said that I considered the Treo 650's would-be breakout functionality edge WAS its Activesync capability--it was the first, and for another month or so, the only--non-Microsoft option on the market. But after May, it seems, it won't be.

    That's a short window, and I think a lot of corporate type buyers will be doing additional analysis of their options...something I don't see benefitting the Treo 650 (except, of course, big price cuts, maybe).

    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    Bottom line is that probably all devices are going to have some form of Exchange Active Sync connectivity eventually, be it embedded (Windows Mobile) or via an add-on (VersaMail or RoadSync or whatever). They'll all be able to connect. So the real possible losers in that scenario aren't the devices, it's the middleware guys.
    "Eventually"? Okay, I, for one, am particularly interested in the dozens that will have it this year. "So the real losers in that scenario" FOR ME, are the ones that experience declining marketshare going forward (including both devices and software)! We apparently have different thoughts on that subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    Of course it won't happen overnight...
    You are right, apparently it won't happen until May--you know, a month or two from now...but apparently, by the end of the year, there will be dozens of options for connectivity to corporate Exchange Server-based messaging systems.

    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    The one thing they're NOT is a device maker. So - for palmOne and MOT and NOK to license EAS makes perfect sense. They'll all be able to compete on fair ground.
    Interesting idea. So you think it is a competition among device makers? I don't think that is going to be a fair fight, given the relative sizes of the players.

    I just can't help wondering what charts of "PDA shipments" will look like going forward. After all, I think an argument can be made that any device that syncs email and calendar (and potentially Tasks and Contacts) will need to go on the list.
  6. #6  
    Another wasted thread...
  7.    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Another wasted thread...
    I do appreciate your taking the time to review it, however, and to review the information it shares about the rapidly developing market for 2005.

    I am actually extremely excited about Summer! And the prospect of inexpensively enabling many more of my users to utilize direct over-the-air synchronization to our corporate data.

    After all, THAT is what's going to make a positive contribution to OUR bottomline--not whether or not we use Treos specifically.
  8. #8  
    yes, this is possibly a waste of time. But one final thought.
    I contend that many devices will be able to connect to Exchange eventually, so the playing field will be level, at least as it relates to EAS. Let's address your point:
    You say that having all these guys (MOT, Symbian, et al) license EAS will be the nail in the coffin of the Treo.
    I say how can that be, when the Treo also does that? Since the 650's capability to connect to EAS is still relatively new, I say that it's not a driving factor for why people choose the device. Not yet.

    All I'm saying is that the success or failure of the Treo won't be contingent on Exchange ActiveSync, since everyone will be able to do that. EAS connectivity becomes a given. Table stakes.
  9. #9  
    and given that a large portion of the existing treo users dont use EAS the whole bit is irrelevant. It may help the corp users to add this functionality for future phones but it is not the driving force behind most of the 650 sales so far.

    But then I am an ignorant boob so my opinion means nothing.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
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    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #10  
    I guess all the P1 investors that were on the last conference call are ignorant boobs too. Because this whole EAS matter was not even a concern. Given P1's direction for the Treo and their other devices is moving in a totally different direction and EAS is a very small part of the overall picture .

    Oh, but lets leave our genius friend to feel EAS will be the death of the T650 .
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    yes, this is possibly a waste of time. But one final thought...All I'm saying is that the success or failure of the Treo won't be contingent on Exchange ActiveSync, since everyone will be able to do that. EAS connectivity becomes a given. Table stakes.
    Well, that gets it down to a pretty fundamental set of questions, doesn't it?

    What will the success or failure of the Treo be based on, if not sales/marketshare?

    Who DO you think the Treo is targeted at? Why would someone buy it over any other device?

    (I do know that we were evaluating it largely based on the Activesync capability. But, sure, I am willing to believe that we were the ONLY ones in the world doing so.)

    I mean, do you really think Palm is going to go toe-to-toe with the cellphone companies, er, I mean, smartphone companies, er, I mean, corporate data connectivity device companies? If so, given that the competitors in THIS market are along the lines of what Microsoft et al did to Palm in the "pure" PDA market--just how bright a future do you see?

    (I would really like someone who loves the Treo so much to answer a few of those.)

    One final thought: I cannot help but wonder if you bothered to read the final link in my last message that responded to you: PDA Market Up or Down?

    Here's a part I found a little disturbing:

    QUOTE: "PalmOne's 2004 revenue declined by 9.4 percent and its market share slipped to 19.3 percent down from 24.9 percent in 2003. PalmOne still however held top spot in terms of units shipped at 3.7 million units, which was a 10.7 percent decline from the previous year.

    "Palm's decline in shipments also translated into it losing its crown as the leading PDA OS. Its share of the PDA OS market declined to only 36.3 percent in 2004 from 50 percent in 2003."
  12. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    [Over-the-air sync] is not the driving force behind most of the 650 sales so far.
    I beg to differ. Over-the-air syncing is one of the most powerful features of a converged device, and probably the BIGGEST selling point to corporations. Being able to access personal/business data at a moments notice is becoming more and more crucial, and can be vital to one's success in this "information age".

    The companies that are able to implement this technology best will win-out. Let's face it folks, the money is no longer in the consumer markets, but rather the corporate arena. Most typical consumers have a hard time shelling out $550 for a converged device, corporations on the other hand do not.

    Just my .02
  13. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by barky81
    Well, that gets it down to a pretty fundamental set of questions, doesn't it?

    What will the success or failure of the Treo be based on, if not sales/marketshare?

    Who DO you think the Treo is targeted at? Why would someone buy it over any other device?
    Ask yourself these questions:

    - Why would anyone buy a BMW over a Chevy? They both do the same job of getting you from point A to point B.
    - Chevy sells far more cars than BMW does. Does this make GM a better car company than BMW?

    Apply the answers here to your Treo questions, and that should clear things up for you, I hope.
  14. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Silver5
    There are no nails. There is no coffin. These posts are pointless.
    I'm with you!!!
    Cingular Treo 650
    Click here to see what's loaded on my Treo 650
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  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    The companies that are able to implement this technology best will win-out. Let's face it folks, the money is no longer in the consumer markets, but rather the corporate arena. Most typical consumers have a hard time shelling out $550 for a converged device, corporations on the other hand do not.

    Just my .02
    This would be true if P1 was only after the corporate market.

    Ipods sell pretty well too you know and P1 knows EAS won't do a thing for them in that space.

    This is not just about the "corporate" market for P1.

    And as I've said before P1 will have a 2nd chance at EAS in their next Treo while others will be offering their 1st release with it.
  16. #17  
    Competition breeds excellence. Pa1mOne's response to a competitive market would likely be to reduce the price of the 650 to make it more attractive than its competitors. Not to mention the fact that new and improved Treo models will be coming out in the future and, more importantly, that the Treo line is not the only product line that Pa1m has.
    I've heard that polar bear steaks are tough, but maybe if you marinated them in beer they'd turn out all right.
  17. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    I beg to differ. Over-the-air syncing is one of the most powerful features of a converged device, and probably the BIGGEST selling point to corporations. Being able to access personal/business data at a moments notice is becoming more and more crucial, and can be vital to one's success in this "information age".

    The companies that are able to implement this technology best will win-out. Let's face it folks, the money is no longer in the consumer markets, but rather the corporate arena. Most typical consumers have a hard time shelling out $550 for a converged device, corporations on the other hand do not.

    Just my .02
    Maybe you should do a poll and see how many folks here bought the 650 themselves or had it provided by their company. I'll guess most bought it themselves.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #19  
    Your post is not logically sound. Your argument "other people will soon be able to do it so the Treo 650 is doomed" is pretty pointless. There are a variety of things that other devices can do that the Treo can't do and an even larger number of things that the Treo can do that other devices can do.

    If you're trying to use the argument that those 'unique' features are why people are buying a Treo, I think you need to find some actual statistical evidence to support that as your post leaves you looking like a confused troll.
  19.    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    and given that a large portion of the existing treo users dont use EAS the whole bit is irrelevant...
    Another piece of information that you don't have.

    But, based upon my own participation in a number of discussions with people ATTEMPTING to rely on Exchange Activesync TODAY (coupled with my own personal experience of multiple devices implemented NOW in our organization); I suspect the number is more significant than you realize.

    But of course, on the other hand, I have to wonder why people pay for features they absolutely don't want and cannot utilize.

    After all, a component of the higher price of the Treo 650 would be attributable to its licensing cost for the Exchange Activesync feature.
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