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  1. #21  
    Yada Yada Yada....pointless post.
    Palm III -> Palm Vx -> Clie T615c -> Clie T665c -> Tungsten T|3 -> Treo 650 -> Trew 700W (for a few days) -> XV6700 -> Moto Q
    http://geckotek.blogspot.com
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    I guess all the P1 investors that were on the last conference call are ignorant boobs too. Because this whole EAS matter was not even a concern. Given P1's direction for the Treo and their other devices is moving in a totally different direction and EAS is a very small part of the overall picture .
    Yep, I am pretty sure that's the argument they used on the ENRON message boards, too; you know, up until the end, that is.

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    Oh, but lets leave our genius friend to feel EAS will be the death of the T650 .
    I thought the moderators wanted us to watch the personal attacks.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by barky81
    Another piece of information that you don't have.

    But, based upon my own participation in a number of discussions with people ATTEMPTING to rely on Exchange Activesync TODAY (coupled with my own personal experience of multiple devices implemented NOW in our organization); I suspect the number is more significant than you realize.

    But of course, on the other hand, I have to wonder why people pay for features they absolutely don't want and cannot utilize.

    After all, a component of the higher price of the Treo 650 would be attributable to its licensing cost for the Exchange Activesync feature.
    at the risk of getting in another pissing match with you (which I really dont want to do) I'll respond.

    It's called supposition. Look it up. I based my statement about the users of EAS on the comments about it I have read here, pdaphonehome.com and hofo. It isn't the hot topic you think it is. You talk more about it here than pretty much anyone else.

    As to paying for features they dont want, that is a stupid question. Are you saying by implication that everyone who uses a treo has to utilize every feature it has? I would say a large portion of treo owners dont use all of its functions. I never listen to mp3's and I even own pocket tunes. I am sure there are many more like me in this regard.

    I think you are also suggesting that if EAS were not included the 650 would be cheaper if they left it off. Ya right. EAS isnt even mention on the box so how would most even know its on their. Sprint Business Connection doesn't show up in the thesaurus under EAS.

    Bottom line if the features dont work for you, get something else. P1 isnt in business to make you happy. The majority of 650 users are happy (even moreso since the update) and thats why I dont think most use EAS. Because you are about the only one who talks about it.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  4.    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    This would be true if P1 was only after the corporate market.

    Ipods sell pretty well too you know and P1 knows EAS won't do a thing for them in that space.

    This is not just about the "corporate" market for P1.
    Please stop posting denials without some type of meaningful information. I get it that you say PalmOne is not after the corporate market with their products. I don't believe you, because you are offering no evidence to support it.

    Given that Exchange Activesync requires specific licensing (and software development costs to implement), I remain unconvinced that the PalmOne engineers, you know, "just threw it in" the Treo 650 for no specific reason.

    Although that does appear to be your position--please correct me if I am mis-stating your position.

    Especially given that it is a feature primarily applicable to corporate customers currently.

    What market are they after with the Treo?

    Quote Originally Posted by darnell
    And as I've said before P1 will have a 2nd chance at EAS in their next Treo while others will be offering their 1st release with it.
    While I certainly would not put it past them to take "a 2nd chance at EAS in their next Treo"; I would question the logic of putting TOO MUCH effort into a customized implementation of a feature that EVERYONE ELSE offers (even at RETAIL) for products that don't target the market for that FEATURE appeals to.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by frankthetoad
    ...more importantly, that the Treo line is not the only product line that Pa1m has.
    And yet, interestingly, their "smartphones" are currently estimated to be responsible for 50% of PalmOne's net revenue!

    So, there, see. It's just a case of you saying "half full" and me saying "half empty".
  6. #26  
    Regarding Enron....totally different matter, but you can research that for yourself.

    My proof, as I've said you can listen to the last P1 investor's conference call for yourself. See the direction they say they are going in. Listen to the questions asked and the answers given. Then ask yourself why EAS was never mentioned. It will be obvious to you then.

    The market for the Treo is to make it the #1 mobile computing platform for everyone. Consumers, business people, you name it.

    Their vision has more to do with entertainment content than anything like EAS.

    For the corporate customer that likes the Treo that's fine in P1s eyes and they will take what they can get. But trying to get something that catches on like the Ipod is more the true immediate goal while also having something that a corporate customer can use.

    A true PC in your hand experience is what it's about. One the corporate customer can use for business, the kid can use for games, the teenager can use for music/videos and the regular home user can use for home e-mail and communications.
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregorypierce
    ...If you're trying to use the argument that those 'unique' features are why people are buying a Treo, I think you need to find some actual statistical evidence to support that as your post leaves you looking like a confused troll.
    Or, hey, another idea: You explain WHY PalmOne went to the trouble and expense to make the Treo 650 the FIRST non-Microsoft device to offer this "unique" feature.
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Maybe you should do a poll and see how many folks here bought the 650 themselves or had it provided by their company. I'll guess most bought it themselves.
    Woof, this would be a pointless, and dare I say "meaningless" poll. The people that frequent T|C are just a small portion of the T650/600 user-base.

    I know of at least 50 individuals that use a T650/600 that have never been to or rarely visit T|C and had their device provided by their employer.

    In my humble opinion, I believe the T650/600's are targeted and marketed towards corporate professionals and executives. Now, I would agree that there are a great handful that have purchased this device personally, as did I, but based on my recommendation my company has made a major push towards the Treo line.

    I think most would agree that the T650 is by no means designed for just everyone and anyone, and unlike like the Zire line, it is intended for business professionals and executives.
    Last edited by spiVeyx; 03/31/2005 at 03:16 PM.
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    at the risk of getting in another pissing match with you (which I really dont want to do) I'll respond.
    I leave it to the moderators to deal with personal attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    It's called supposition. Look it up....
    Great idea, I asked Google to define the word supposition. Here's the FIRST listing:

    "guess: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence"

    Hmmm, I think that is what I said. Let's check. It appears I said: "Another piece of information you don't have." Doublecheck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    As to paying for features they dont want, that is a stupid question.... I never listen to mp3's and I even own pocket tunes.
    I am physically incapable of even responding to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    I think you are also suggesting that if EAS were not included the 650 would be cheaper if they left it off. Ya right. EAS isnt even mention on the box so how would most even know its on their. Sprint Business Connection doesn't show up in the thesaurus under EAS.
    Okay, this is cute. See, I never even SAW a box, until AFTER I bought our first Treo. That's one of the differences between "consumer" and "corporate". But yes, I personally think the Treo 650 would have cost LESS if it did not include Exchange Activesync.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Bottom line if the features dont work for you, get something else. P1 isnt in business to make you happy. The majority of 650 users are happy (even moreso since the update) and thats why I dont think most use EAS. Because you are about the only one who talks about it.
    I think this might be a little more "supposition," isn't it?
  10. #30  
    Can't wait to see who is first to say nyah nyah nyah!
    <HTML><BODY><FONT color=#000066><FONT size=5><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><B>PhilzGr8</FONT><MARQUEE id=Marquee2 style="WIDTH: 384px; HEIGHT: 17px" trueSpeed scrollAmount=1 scrollDelay=8 behavior=slide loop=1 border="0"><SPAN class=956281604-11022005><FONT size=1>Treo 600 User Par Excellence</FONT></SPAN></MARQUEE></B><BR></P></DIV>&nbsp;</BODY></HTML>
  11. #31  
    I agree that EAS is important - but your point is that palmOne is doomed now that other device and OS makers (even the software guys like DataViz) can now offer that as well. I say that's bunk. Everyone will have it, so it becomes a non-issue. Other factors will determine the success or failure of a device or an OS.
    Just like in any market, the first guy to have a certain feature has a short-term competitive advantage; once everyone else has that same feature, that feature is no longer relevant to determining success or failure, and other things rise up and take their place.
    That's all I'm saying...
  12. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrosser
    once everyone else has that same feature, that feature is no longer relevant to determining success or failure, and other things rise up and take their place.
    That's all I'm saying...
    I partially agree with you nrossar, but i think the thing you're forgetting is that most companies, especially large ones, that may/are utilizing over-the-air synchronization "turn" very slowly. My point being, the device that implements this best will win, and some argue that BB already has.

    So it's not just a matter of everyone having the "same feature", but rather who got there first and implimented it best.

    Now, I would agree; I don't think the boat has sailed yet. Many companies are still working on incorporating these technologies into their IT Infrastructure, but NOW is the time when decisions are being made, so the technology-providers that are are now playing catch-up may never make it. Palm made it, but in my opinion, their implimentation was very poor.

    Will Palm "make it"? I don't know. I would like to think they will, but as of late, the odds seem to be against them.
    Last edited by spiVeyx; 03/31/2005 at 04:17 PM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by barky81
    I leave it to the moderators to deal with personal attacks.
    LOL. now youre going to hide behind mods. Cute. All you did in "first official nail" was attack people.


    Great idea, I asked Google to define the word supposition. Here's the FIRST listing:

    "guess: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence"

    Hmmm, I think that is what I said. Let's check. It appears I said: "Another piece of information you don't have." Doublecheck!
    I know what supposition means. Thats why I used it. I was making a guess based on what I have seen and read. I in no way said it was the definitive answer. At least I dont act like I have "complete evidence". For as smart as you think you are you cannot get the point that youre guessing too. You dont have all the evidence on EAS either. And please dont say you do.



    I am physically incapable of even responding to this.
    Why? because I am right? There are people that dont use the kb on their treo. If P1 left off every feature that someone didnt use what would we have?



    Okay, this is cute. See, I never even SAW a box, until AFTER I bought our first Treo. That's one of the differences between "consumer" and "corporate". But yes, I personally think the Treo 650 would have cost LESS if it did not include Exchange Activesync.
    But I bet you looked at the specs somewhere else. That was my point. Lots of folks bought the 650 without giving a damn either way if it supported EAS. Just because it's the cat's meow to you doesnt mean anyone else gives a whit.


    I think this might be a little more "supposition," isn't it?
    You of all people should recognize guessing. Thats what youre doing. Guessing that the treo will die because another phone gets EAS.

    Maybe a simple analogy will get through. I think Cadillac was the first automaker to offer climate controlled heat/ac in their cars (maybe they werent but someone was). Now I know there are many manufacturers that offer it now. Lots of different brands and models have climate control. Did Cadillac go out of business? Nope. Did they stop making a model because of someone else's climate control. Nope.

    You getting any of this?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    Woof, this would be a pointless, and dare I say "meaningless" poll. The people that frequent T|C are just a small portion of the T650/600 user-base.
    Oh so presidential polls are meaningless because they only talk to a small portion of the population? Or any other opinion poll? Do you think the pollsters ask everyone? No they ask a small portion of a particular demographic.

    Thanks for saying everyone on TC has a meaningless opinion.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Oh so presidential polls are meaningless because they only talk to a small portion of the population? Or any other opinion poll? Do you think the pollsters ask everyone? No they ask a small portion of a particular demographic. Thanks for saying everyone on TC has a meaningless opinion.
    Oh boy, here we go: I think you're missing my point. Presidential polls vary, depending on the issue(s) being polled, but most often, represent the opinion of the nation at-large. Now, I'm not a pollster, but I understand enough to know that they poll various demograph's to obtain a well-rounded snapshop of the country's opinion.

    I was not saying, or even suggesting, that "everyone on TC has a meaningless opinion", I was simply pointing out that a poll on T|C would produce inaccurate results. It would not account for the opinion's of a large chunk of Treo users that rarely, if at all, visit T|C. Based on my observations, I think the individuals that frequent T|C are in a sub-culture all their own--they don't represent the majority of Treo users.

    Talk about taking words out of my mouth! My comments were not meant to demean or invalidate the opinions of others. I was simply making an argument based on my observations and experience
    Last edited by spiVeyx; 03/31/2005 at 05:01 PM.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    Oh boy, here we go: I think you're missing my point. Presidential polls vary, depending on the issue(s) that are being polled, but most often, represent the opinion of the nation at-large. Now, I'm not a pollster, but I understand enough to know that they poll various demograph's to obtain a well-rounded snapshop of the country's opinion.

    I was not saying, or even suggesting, that "everyone on TC has a meaningless opinion", I was simply pointing out that a poll on T|C would produce inaccurate results. It would not account for opinion's of a large chunk of Treo users that rarely, if at all, visit T|C.

    Talk about taking words out of my mouth!
    Sorry but I disagree. The variety of people who visit here and own treos from all professions and walks of life make for a pretty broad spectrum of users. And if you only wany corporate user results say so in your poll.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. spiVeyx's Avatar
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    #37  
    Can I get anyone to agree with me? Or am I just out of it?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by spiVeyx
    I was simply making an argument based on my observations and experience
    Careful, thats pretty much supposition. THAT will get you in all kinds of trouble here.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  19. #39  
    Dear User,

    Thank you for choosing Tr3oCentral.com!
    To help get you started we've included this easy to follow guide.

    Getting Started:
    Chapter I - Inane Rambling

    To begin inane rambling follow these simple steps:
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