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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    because my dear. It's show me time. It's a bit like discussing the metaphysic of cheese cake topping without ever eating a cheese cake before.

    He can blather all he wants about 'missing' memory. But if he can't show what's inside his mini, he might as well making the whole thing up, something not unheard of in palmie heads circle.

    as of now, I even doubt he owns mini, let alone knows what he is talking about.
    WRONG, your STFU was way out of line, don't let it happen again.
    On this board we expect you to act civilized and not use swearwords (not even abreviated)
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    It makes so much more sense with what you just said above versus "...or stfu." Thanks. (and you're right...some do say things that they can't support.)
    suskind has been the source of noise for awhile now. The fact that he has people cheering him on (on the rare occasions), doesn't help either. Despite this, I'm willing to respond to polite genuine requests for feedback/further information only to help those who are weighing the differences between the Treo and the XDA.
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by ardint
    This whole post smacks of Palm fanboyism. And it upsets me because there are plenty of people who read these threads but dont post. I know because I'm one of those people, and I've been on this board since my Treo 300, but my post count doesn't reflect that. Those people may be misled by your posts, and I would hate to see someone go with a product that is inferior for their needs just because of the rampant bias towards one platform or another.
    I wouldn't say they would be misled. There are a lot of people who are happy with their Treo and the reasons why may actually lie with the same reasons I am happy with my Treo.

    If I were to write something to say the PPC was fantastic and it absolutely takes the Treo out in every category, I feel you wouldn't be expressing these same views in that thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by ardint
    Here's the deal. You claim the Treo with its keyboard is the "perfect marriage" of PDA and phone. I agree that a keyboard is essential to a good convergence device.

    Why then, did you go with the mini? It has no keyboard. How else did you expect to use the device? Thats like knocking a Zire for not being "one handed friendly!"
    I wrote a comparison between a Compaq and then a HP Ipaq against the Palm/Tungsten not too long ago on another forum, similar to this and found that the Ipaq definitely did provide more bells and whistles. The only thing going for the Palm devices were the battery life and again, the stability of the Palm OS.

    I went with the Mini because I jump platforms after every iteration.

    Based on my past experiences, I still believed the Microsoft PDAs, and now, PDA/Phones, has a lot to offer and actually acquired a Mini based on a colleague's highly favorable recommendation. He had assured me that the keyboard was not useful and that I would grow to love the XDA II Mini for what it is (I suppose I won't be trusting his opinion ever again). Besides, the Mini was sexier looking. Style in PDA/Phones are just as important as styling in normal cellulars.

    Quote Originally Posted by ardint
    If you have had Ipaqs in the past, then you know what your memory needs are. Why did you get a device with 64MB? Yes Palm programs are smaller. But my PPC does FAR more than my 650, and while posting this, I have Media Player playing in the background, Pocket Informant minimzed, Messaging minimzed for background email fetching, MSN Messenger minimized, Photo Contacts always running for FLAWLESS WMA ringtones (no resets like I had with lightwav, and it was free), and I still have no stability or performance issues with 24 MB storage and 30 MB program memory available.
    You certainly have a full blown XDA II or IIs there judging by your memory configuration.

    Yes, I knew that I was buying a device that had 64MB of RAM but I wanted to compare an apple with an apple. The XDA II Mini is closer in relative specs as the latest Treo. They are aimed at people who want all the conveniences of a smaller device and as a result, I chose to write a review that pitches an XDA II Mini against a Treo 600.

    Besides, I owned both devices. It would be unfair of me to write another review otherwise. All this is based on my real-life experiences with the devices.

    BTW, I had my Treo 600 configuration working with a similar set of applications that you listed above (Palm equivalents) minus the photo stuff and I have not had a problem either.

    Quote Originally Posted by ardint
    Yes I'm a power user, but I NEVER drop below 20 MB program memory available.
    So you are basically recommending that I should never drop below 20MB of program memory to resolve my lag issues? I am happy to test that configuration and come back here to let you know how I go. I will be practical about it though as I am not willing to lose functionality from the device I used to have with the Treo 600. Further, people who wish to research will want to know how successful I am with the memory configuration based on the set of applications I listed earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by ardint
    My point is simple. If you are unhappy with your device, go back to the Treo. But dont blame the platform for what is clearly user error - the error of buying a device that didnt meet your needs (keyboard and memory). Because someone might start doing their own homework for their next phone (which you should have done), read your posts and pass up what might be just perfect for them.
    Hang on. If someone did do their homework and read my post, then they have every right in knowing that a person who has had a Treo was very happy with the device. Not even switching to a PDA with "enhanced" functionality that the Windows platform offers could shake the Treo experience.

    I feel your statement is bordering on bigotry in itself. The point of providing a fair perspective is to allow both sides to express their views. I am expresssing mine here and no one yet has convinced me that I have been wrong. The only thing here that I have learned is that perhaps I could do with some more memory. But this brings me to my point; the Treo is a better PDA than the XDA II Mini in other ways - memory allocation in Treo is more practical than memory installed on the XDA II Mini.

    I still feel I am being fair to the Windows devices because I was prepared to give it a shot. I took that opportunity and found that the platform and the device still had some ways to go despite the Palm OS not having the kind of functionality people find appealing on first sight - the bells and whistles.
    Last edited by laugher; 03/24/2005 at 08:53 AM. Reason: typos
  4. #44  
    Still no list application, no memory log, and only putting out hot air.

    Do you even OWN that alledge mini? If so
    1. picture of device next to treo
    2. screenshot of asset page and root directory.

    and they better match those memory log too.


    (I got the feeling this guy really either doesn't own the device or doesn't know what he is talking about. Total faker)
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by laugher
    suskind has been the source of noise for awhile now. The fact that he has people cheering him on (on the rare occasions), doesn't help either. Despite this, I'm willing to respond to polite genuine requests for feedback/further information only to help those who are weighing the differences between the Treo and the XDA.
    Laugher: please dont misinterpret my post for cheering (I am assuming you did). Everyone can agree (I think) that there have been people who will post things that simply are not true or have been exaggerated or that have been regurgitated by other users.

    I am not saying YOU are but I am acknowledging with suskind that it does happen. Keep your posts coming (BTW-I have looked at the Mini but I really need the keyboard for messaging and emails. )
  6. #46  
    -No picture of actual mini next to treo 600. (does he own the two devices as he claims?)
    -No screenshot of mini. (the essential pages, so we can know if he indeed know how to use his mini. asset page, and root directory)
    -No apps list and memory log. (he is just BS-ing his way through about missing memory, memory bla...missing bla bla. He is just making up issues.)
    -no concrete example of 'tasks' he said he was comparing. (he is just blowing hot air, in fact I doubt he even know what mini inputting capabilities are)

    He is just clueless n00bs.

    Besides, I owned both devices. It would be unfair of me to write another review otherwise. All this is based on my real-life experiences with the devices.
    yeah whatever. Do you even know how to tune the transcriber or turn on the smart dialer?
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    -No picture of actual mini next to treo 600. (does he own the two devices as he claims?)
    -No screenshot of mini. (the essential pages, so we can know if he indeed know how to use his mini. asset page, and root directory)
    -No apps list and memory log. (he is just BS-ing his way through about missing memory, memory bla...missing bla bla. He is just making up issues.)
    -no concrete example of 'tasks' he said he was comparing. (he is just blowing hot air, in fact I doubt he even know what mini inputting capabilities are)

    He is just clueless n00bs.



    yeah whatever. Do you even know how to tune the transcriber or turn on the smart dialer?
    Did I not warn you?
    Personal attacks (like namecalling) and swearing are not allowed here.
    Normally I would let mild swearing and namecalling slide but since I warned you and you seem to have no intention to clean up your act I'm going to give you a ban of a week.
    Hopefully you act more respectfull after that. It if fine to have critisism, but not in a rude way...

    If you don't clean up your act after the temp ban you'll get a permanent one..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  8. Iceman6's Avatar
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    #48  
    Thanks, Toolkit. Please keep him on a short leash.
  9. sledgie's Avatar
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    #49  
    lol suskind didn't say anything wrong in the last post. the fact of the matter is i could gather the same amount of ideas and misleadings as laugher does by reading other sites, and we still don't have any proof that he has the device. not to mention he says that the mini is most comparable to the 650 in specs, i beg to differ. how are you going to compare a device that has no keyboard and expect to get the same amount of work done on it? just because they are relatively the same size doesn't mean they are in the same category. not to mention, if you look at the specs, other than resolution and lack of keyboard, the mini surpasses the treo 650 greatly in memory, power, ability to multitask - you name it just about. i still don't understand how you can say the palmOS takes up a smaller memory load running applications when the fact remains you still can't multi task! open, close, open, close. stop the insanity! save this mini's life!

    my personal opinion is the mini still lacks memory and the screen is too small for my tastes, not to mention no keyboard. but it's not even in the same category as the treo 600, or 650 for that matter. 650 = last years technology sold at tomorrow's prices. i still can't believe palm can't even bundle in a cradle for that price.
  10. #50  
    laugher,
    Where did you buy your O2? Was it overseas? In your opinion, do you think the efficiency of running one application at a time on the 600 is more productive than the lag performance you report in running multiple applications on your O2? That was the conclusion I came to from your posts.
  11. #51  
    Doesn't it stand for: Star Trek Federation University?

    or

    Start the funk up?

    I had to look it up on urban dictionary to figure it out. Link
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledgie
    lol suskind didn't say anything wrong in the last post. .
    The things that tipped him over the edge were calling people clueless n00bs, and BS-ing.
    And the general tone of his reply/replies->flame bait
    As said before minor offenses that we normally let slip, but after a warning I expect people to watch their tone.. hence the temp ban.
    Not bad enough for a a permanent ban, but bad enought to show the mods mean bussiness.
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  13. #53  
    There may be a misunderstanding here. When I say PPC I dont mean the Pocket PC Platform, I mean specifically my PPC 6001. In this sense, yes it does blow away the Treo in all factors except Text Messaging and form factor, the latter being personal opinion (coworker prefers 6601 over his 650 due to the larger screen). I felt the need to clarify in case someone had thought I was some MS cheerleader.

    But as far as other PPC phones, I dont know I haven't used them.

    BTW, text messaging app is coming in the next few weeks.
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledgie
    we still don't have any proof that he has the device.
    I'm happy to provide proof that I have the device if that is going to keep you lot calm. Of course, this extra bit of effort which most people would just bail out of because it is just too hard, is meant for the people who are genuinely interested in my review instead of trying to discredit it. I'll attach;

    1. Some pictures of both devices together although I don't think that proves anything
    2. Give you a list of my applications on my current PDA/Phone (XDA II Mini) - this one is for suskind - I hope he calms down
    3. Provide a screen shot of memory configuration (XDA II Mini) - again, for suskind


    Again, I really think all that is irrelevant because at the end of the day, you will still come back and say this;
    Quote Originally Posted by sledgie
    not to mention he says that the mini is most comparable to the 650 in specs, i beg to differ. how are you going to compare a device that has no keyboard and expect to get the same amount of work done on it?
    And that is my point EXACTLY. I expressed the view that with the Treo's keyboard, it stomps over all other non-keyboard PDAs, in this case the XDA II Mini. Keep in mind, I could have written a review for Treo vs Tungsten or Treo vs O2 XPhone but I haven't because I either don't have those devices around anymore or I never owned them.
    Quote Originally Posted by sledgie
    just because they are relatively the same size doesn't mean they are in the same category. not to mention, if you look at the specs, other than resolution and lack of keyboard, the mini surpasses the treo 650 greatly in memory, power, ability to multitask - you name it just about. i still don't understand how you can say the palmOS takes up a smaller memory load running applications when the fact remains you still can't multi task! open, close, open, close. stop the insanity! save this mini's life!
    Hehe...Ok. So I am comparing a Mini against a redundant device that is behind the times, the Treo 600?

    The Palm takes a small memory load because their applications are SMALLER. It goes back to my analogy;

    1. 32Mb of RAM available on Treo; applications takes 2Mb each. This means I can run 16 applications before I run out of memory completely
    2. 64Mb* of RAM available on XDA II Mini; applications takes 10Mb each. This means I can run 6 applications at best before I run out of usable memory


    *Please note the 64Mb is not used for the storage of applications but for the execution.

    The above lists are citing approximate size of applications but that's what I have seen personally (not reading other forums by the way) when applications run.
    Quote Originally Posted by sledgie
    my personal opinion is the mini still lacks memory and the screen is too small for my tastes, not to mention no keyboard. but it's not even in the same category as the treo 600, or 650 for that matter. 650 = last years technology sold at tomorrow's prices. i still can't believe palm can't even bundle in a cradle for that price.
    I agree that the Treo is behind the times from a technology viewpoint but it is MORE PRACTICAL, MORE USEABLE, MORE FUNCTIONAL than the XDA II Mini because of the advantages I highlighted for it and the disadvantages I highlighted making the XDA II Mini difficult to manage.

    I highlighted the memory configurations because I wanted people to see (especially those who haven't owned both devices), that even with the Treo's smaller memory footprint against the XDA II Mini's configuration, the Treo can still be just as functional, useable and practical. If not more so.

    The screen on the XDA II Mini is bigger than the Treo.

    And again, the keyboard is just another bonus that the Treo has.

    Now, let me go grab my screen shots and post it up in a few minutes...I have to go find a freeware screen shot utility...any recommendations?
    Last edited by laugher; 03/24/2005 at 05:58 PM. Reason: presenting facts in context
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    (BTW-I have looked at the Mini but I really need the keyboard for messaging and emails. )
    The only device I recommend that you look at then, if XDA is your preferred
    choice, is an XDA IIs which has a built-in slideout keyboard. But I don't like it because of its size.
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    If you don't clean up your act after the temp ban you'll get a permanent one..
    Thanks ToolkiT.
  17.    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by vandoc
    laugher,
    Where did you buy your O2? Was it overseas? In your opinion, do you think the efficiency of running one application at a time on the 600 is more productive than the lag performance you report in running multiple applications on your O2? That was the conclusion I came to from your posts.
    vandoc, I get the feeling you're grasping at straws to see if you can take me off-balance.

    What applications would you run concurrently? Write an appointment down while you play games? Or perhaps you like to say hello to your friends on MSN Messenger while you're managing your day-to-day tasks? If I were to guess, you probably want to play MP3s while you're doing some work. Or perhaps wait for a web page to load while you are chatting on MSN. But that's about it.

    I don't browse the internet on a small screen. With broadband and now wireless broadband, there's no need to restrict yourself to a small screen for web access. Nor do I play MP3s all that often. When I do, I play it on my Notebook with earphones attached (at work) and while commuting, I play it while relaxing.

    It all comes down to how you use your device. Obviously, you use it in a different way. I use my device more for;

    1. Phone
    2. Contacts management
    3. Appointments
    4. Task management
    5. Calclulations
    6. Finance
    7. Music on occasions when I am commuting
    8. Reading - Avantgo or eReader books


    I really can't use more than one application at a time and while the novelty of being able to have more than one application running (multitasking) is certainly appealing, it is not practical when you are trying to use it for work and relaxation.

    Let's not mix the fact that running more than one application at a time is not the same as starting more than one application. The Palm does allow you to have multiple applications running. But it puts the ones in the background in a suspend mode until you access it again. I also seem to recall that pTunes can continue to play music while I have other applications running...can anyone else confirm this?
    Last edited by laugher; 03/24/2005 at 06:02 PM. Reason: grammar
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    Thanks, Toolkit. Please keep him on a short leash.
    DITTO! I just came here for info, but didn't understand why Laugher has to prove he owns the devices. He seemed legit to me. Let's say it may be true(I'm not saying it is) he doesn't completely know all the ins and outs of both devices, is that a crime? Many people don't know all the capabilities of what they have. This forum seems to have a lot of tech pros, but not everyone out in the real world is. Anyway, he is more knowlegable than I am so I will keep reading his posts.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by laugher
    What applications would you run concurrently?
    Let me help with this as a former Treo 600 user who still appreciates that platform.

    You can run IM apps (like Causerie) in background however, if you are downloading something like email or any other data, you can't do anything else at the same time. I used to listen to Audible books and background but it never worked very well if I tried to do anything else -- especially if the desired app resided on a SD card. What works best on Palms, however, are the multitude of hacks (e.g. ClipHack) which may be used while in a single app. Otherwise, you need to start and restart apps just to cut/paste information.

    Here are some real examples:

    -- The other night I wanted to listen to a bedtime sermon. I used IE and found the sermon and started the download. While it was doing that, I could finish off other work for the day: updated my calendar and sent out that last message to my staff. When the download completed, it started in the Media Player.

    -- Once I was in church and I had up my Laridian PPC version bible up with the focus scripture. The choir began to sing an old song but I didn't know the words. I went on IE, looked it up. I cut/paste it in a memo so I could follow along better. During the message a word was used that I wanted clarified so I popped over to my Wordbook dictionary and looked it up. I never lost my place in the scripture and didn't have to shut anything down. I used to have the hardest time taking notes at the same time I read scriptures on my Palm device.

    -- At a meeting, I had a spreadsheet and needed to add information from the address book and location data from the web. I could keep the spreadsheet up, start the address book to cut/paste, start IE to look up the location info and without terminating anything.

    -- I had to send a text message to my staff and needed information from email, from the web, and from my contacts. I could compose the message and bounce back and forth from app to app.

    In short the PPCs are handheld workstations. They run on WINDOZE with all of the goodies and ugliness.

    Actually the Kyocera 7135 (as dated as it is) is better in some aspects than the Treos because at least the phone and the PDA are separate. You can reset the PDA and not interrupt a phone call. In that regard, that Palm device had multitasking capabilities at the device (not OS) level.
  20.    #60  
    Beryl - Thanks for providing some Palm scenarios as well. Your justification looks more balanced that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    Here are some real examples:

    -- The other night I wanted to listen to a bedtime sermon. I used IE and found the sermon and started the download. While it was doing that, I could finish off other work for the day: updated my calendar and sent out that last message to my staff. When the download completed, it started in the Media Player.
    I can't say I've tried this on the Treo. But I suspect, given my experience with the other applications, this scenario would not be do-able as the web browser would be suspended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    -- Once I was in church and I had up my Laridian PPC version bible up with the focus scripture. The choir began to sing an old song but I didn't know the words. I went on IE, looked it up. I cut/paste it in a memo so I could follow along better. During the message a word was used that I wanted clarified so I popped over to my Wordbook dictionary and looked it up. I never lost my place in the scripture and didn't have to shut anything down. I used to have the hardest time taking notes at the same time I read scriptures on my Palm device.
    This sounds like all you need is task switching which the Palm can handle. i.e.

    1. Start Laridian application
    2. Switch to desktop and start web browser
    3. Download song lyrics via web browser
    4. Copy song lyrics to clipboard/buffer
    5. Start editor (notepad or whatever)
    6. Paste song lyrics to Editor
    7. Start Wordbook Dictionary application
    8. Look up meaning of word
    9. Switch back to Laridian or song lyrics


    I am not certain where it requires constant processing of the other applications.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    -- At a meeting, I had a spreadsheet and needed to add information from the address book and location data from the web. I could keep the spreadsheet up, start the address book to cut/paste, start IE to look up the location info and without terminating anything.
    You can do that on a Palm based OS as well without terminating anything. You can have multiple applications running. I am not sure why you think you can't do that. The only thing that will help is that you can continue to work on other parts of your spreadsheet while you wait for the web browser to call up your information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beryl
    -- I had to send a text message to my staff and needed information from email, from the web, and from my contacts. I could compose the message and bounce back and forth from app to app.
    Again, this is perfectly practical on the Palm. Composing an email and then switching to a web browser does not cause the email application to close or your new mail composition to close. You just switch back. The same with going to Contacts.
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