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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    Don't give a damn about market trend. When exactly will PPC comes out with a version that has same size of Treo and have touch screen and keyboard? The Treo has come out for two years. Should I keep waiting for the "eventually market leader" or just enjoy my Treo?

    No? So I don't care.

    The only thing I want from the PPC camp that's not avaiable on the Palm is voip phone. But that's just a novelty. No I don't need wi-fi. My roommate and my work has wi-fi but I have wired up my house way before Cisco made its first consumer wi-fi PC card.
    Smaller than the Treo:

    http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000940024736/
  2. jstpa's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    When exactly will PPC comes out with a version that has same size of Treo and have touch screen and keyboard? The Treo has come out for two years.
    Note as well that Palmone did not "come out" with the Treo. It was Handspring -and Handspring is now merged out of existence. All Palmone could do was an incremental upgrade. In how many years?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    That is debatable. And I was talking about phone you can buy, not like vaporware a la BanQ P50.
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    That is debatable. And I was talking about phone you can buy, not like vaporware a la BanQ P50.
    It definitely has been out there for a while as a promise - like vaporware.

    But verizon has come out saying it's going to release it. And a lot of people have posted saying they've tried it out or that they've seen verizon people testing it. That seems a little more real than vaporware.

    But we'll see.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    Don't give a damn about market trend. When exactly will PPC comes out with a version that has same size of Treo and have touch screen and keyboard? The Treo has come out for two years. Should I keep waiting for the "eventually market leader" or just enjoy my Treo?

    No? So I don't care.

    The only thing I want from the PPC camp that's not avaiable on the Palm is voip phone. But that's just a novelty. No I don't need wi-fi. My roommate and my work has wi-fi but I have wired up my house way before Cisco made its first consumer wi-fi PC card.
    If you're this passionate about something you "don't care" about, I'd hate to see your reaction to something you do care about!!

    People want Wifi in their devices because they want to use their PDAs to surf the web, check email at home without firing up their PCs. Its also useful in many academic settings since a lot of campuses are blanketed by Wifi. Yes, you can use your GPRS/EDGE/UMTS/1xRTT/EVDO connection, but Wifi in these settings is faster and free.

    We "don't care" that you don't need Wifi. We need it.
  6. jstpa's Avatar
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    The only thing I want from the PPC camp that's not avaiable on the Palm is voip phone. But that's just a novelty. No I don't need wi-fi. My roommate and my work has wi-fi but I have wired up my house way before Cisco made its first consumer wi-fi PC card.
    What are you trying to say here? You plug your treo into a cable to access the web or get e-mail?
  7.    #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    Don't give a damn about market trend.
    Then you don't care about the future of Palm and having a choice of handheld OS. That is basically the bottom line of this thread. The competitive future of Palm. If it cannot target demographic needs, release updated, innovative, and new OS in a timely and affordable manner with a smart marketing team...PPC will be the ONLY main choice for you to make when you buy PDA phone.

    I like competition...it sparks inovation...it pushes the limits for new features and services for the customer...it helps to keep pricing in line. No matter if you are in the Palm or the PPC camp, if Palm goes under, or becomes so minor of a player in the field that they are not a viable or profitable option for a manufacturer.....we all lose.
  8. #28  
    ^^^ But the premise of this thread is you think the largest market share decide where the best device is. That's what I don't agree with. PPC/Windows smartphone may eventually take the largest market share, that doesn't mean PPC will have the best smart phone. I have no problem believing widnows smart phone will take two third of the market share in a few years, maybe this belong to a different thread but I don't have time to argue this over anyway. So here is what I think.

    Palm should concentrate on making the best general smart phone, not the most popular smart phone (see mpx220, black berry etc). That's what they do best and there is still a lot of money in it. Apple has less than 5% market share but their products have high quality. And the low end hardware are not over priced btw. Now look at Nintendo. Their console market is in a ****ty situation right? Yet the best console game from last year is Resident Evil 4 on Gamecube. (Or a tie betwen RE4 and MGS3 depends on who you talk to), and the best console game for this year, from all forcast previews, is very much likely to be the new Zelda game. If you are a true gamer, why do you care if Gamecube has a tiny market share, you just go buy the best game available. And Nintendo still makes a tons of money. BTW I am not a Nintendo fanboy, I have a PS2 and a XBox but not a Gamecude.

    In other words, even if Palm's marketshare shrink to 20%, there is nothing stopping them from making the best smart phone on the market. And taking up the windows OS is not the way to go. I will dump Palm like a sack of potato the day Palm adopter the PPC platform. I can't tell if I am a Palm royalist. I have recommand the Treo for a couple times so maybe I am. But I don't like windows software. The last time Windows make the best consumer software was when Internet Explorer was on version 5.0 and windows2000 was out on the market before OSX 10.2 Jaguar. My eyes couldn't roll bigger when I see people on this forum say they can't wait to get a Palm with the windows OS on it. To each of his own, beacuse I will dump Palm.

    BTW why did I mention Apple and Nintendo? Both of them have very tight control over their hardware and software, therefore, able to put out the best intergraded product. Palm give up on the (control) of PalmOS is the day they lost their ways. Just like what Sega have done after they stop making consoles. Making years after years of mediocre softwares, yeah, that's what they will do.
  9. #29  
    also...

    I like competition...it sparks inovation...it pushes the limits for new features and services for the customer...it helps to keep pricing in line. No matter if you are in the Palm or the PPC camp, if Palm goes under, or becomes so minor of a player in the field that they are not a viable or profitable option for a manufacturer.....we all lose.
    No I won't. I will be using the best smartphone at the time, whatever brand it is. In two years even T-Mobile will be offering 3G technology and video phone, and everybody will be on a different phone.
  10. sledgie's Avatar
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    #30  
    ok you DO realize that palm is making a treo that will essentially be a ppc running windows 5 or mobile 2003se... right?
    lets not forget ol' Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory for the xbox can't believe you left that out
  11.    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    ^^^ But the premise of this thread is you think the largest market share decide where the best device is. That's what I don't agree with.
    No...not where the best device is or which OS is better than the other... but whether manufactuers will choose to offer Palm OS or not. Devices come and go...OS should continue to grow in features and market share to remain a powerful force. The big difference between the Nintendo & Apple examples (which I referred to in my first post) is that they have control over the hardware....they make their own computers or consoles and in turn get to choose what software or OS to include on that hardware. The development, sales, marketing, and distribution of the hardware units that port the OS and software are firmly in the hands of the company.

    Palm gave that up. They are now dependent on manufacturers to design hardware that they feel they can sell with the Palm OS. If the manufacturers ( including Palmone) do not feel that Palm OS is a profitable option, to far behind the times, to costly licensing, lacking in current updates, etc.. to sell the phone that they invested so much time and money into designing, marketing, negotiating, distributing, etc... they are not going to offer it.....or at least begin to explore the option to offer other alternative OS for their handheld, i.e. PPC. That is simply just one possibility of a downward trend with a software company that does not have control over the hardware that would offer it.

    But of course, what we are really hoping for it is to see the latest Linux / Palm OS come out and stun the world with features, ease of use, good marketing, and cost efficient for the manufacturers. Palm may know exactly what they are doing, but history shows more trouble than success with the potential of continueing trends.
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by whatever7
    ^^^ Palm should concentrate on making the best general smart phone, not the most popular smart phone (see mpx220, black berry etc). That's what they do best and there is still a lot of money in it. Apple has less than 5% market share but their products have high quality. ...

    In other words, even if Palm's marketshare shrink to 20%, there is nothing stopping them from making the best smart phone on the market.

    The problem with the whole premise is that Palm did not create the Treo. There is no indication that Palm is capable of designing a successful phone from the bottom up. Their track record comes entirely from now defunct Handspring.

    I like my Treo, but I can't in good conscience give Palmone credit for it. It is a Handspring design.
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    #33  
    When PalmOne bought Handspring, they bought the entire company, not just the Treo's design. As evidence that Handspring's designers are alive and well within PalmOne, look at how good the Treo 650 is. There were a few bugs when it was launched, but they've pretty much been fixed. Treo sales keep going up, and I predict that sales will accelerate when the PPC Treo is released.

    Palm's market share of the PDA market might shrink to nothing. Who cares? They will own the communicator market when a) they release the PPC Treo, and b) everyone installs the Microsoft Exchange upgrade that allows users to get "push" email directly from Exchange instead of indirectly from Blackberry.
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    #34  
    I doubt very seriously that they've been able to keep all the critical components of Handspring together. Critical pieces are often lost in an acquisition, whether by attrition, change of management (very, very critical), change of corporate culture, etc.

    The 650 is the 600 warmed over. Let's see if they ever produce a new design, and then let's see if the new design is successful.
  15. #35  
    Are you guys trying to telling Treo is really made by HTC? How come every HTC PDA looks like a god damn brick?

    ok you DO realize that palm is making a treo that will essentially be a ppc running windows 5 or mobile 2003se... right?
    If, IF, that's how it's going to be. I will get some gay Motorola linux phone in protest!!1
  16.    #36  
    The main point is not the hardware device.....but the OS that is running on it. We are talking about PalmSource OS company not PalmOne Hardware company. That is what we are talking about. Growing trends are showing the once ruling Palm OS is now declining in demand in the market place....or at least lossing once held market share. We are talking about maintaining a customer choice of OS on devices.....not the form factor of the hardware devices.

    But to answer your question....yes to the best of my knowledge (which may need to corrected) PalmOne contracts out to other manufacturers to actually build the hardware that they have designed.
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by jstpa
    The 650 is the 600 warmed over. Let's see if they ever produce a new design, and then let's see if the new design is successful.
    They don't need a new hardware design. Their current design is widely acknowledged as the "state of the art", and with the Treo 650 PalmOne wisely decided to limit the changes to fixes to the known problems. Why are you not giving them credit for turning a good design into a superior one? We need excellence, not originality. Look at Nokia's misguided attempts to reinvent the numeric keypad. Would you buy any of those phones? Not me either.
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    They don't need a new hardware design. Their current design is widely acknowledged as the "state of the art", and with the Treo 650 PalmOne wisely decided to limit the changes to fixes to the known problems. Why are you not giving them credit for turning a good design into a superior one? We need excellence, not originality. Look at Nokia's misguided attempts to reinvent the numeric keypad. Would you buy any of those phones? Not me either.

    Without EVDO and wifi, its not state of the art.

    Like I said, I like my 600 - but the 650 is not a worthy upgrade until they improve its connectivity.
  19. #39  
    The 600 was made by Solectron (a major contract manufacturer) in Mexico. Either the design engineers did a poor job and made it difficult to manufacture, or Solectron was bloody incompetent because the process was rife with problems. That's why you experienced (and some of you continue to experience) repeated QA problems with your units.

    With the 650, Palm chose to OEM it to HTC in Taiwan. HTC does a lot of their own design work too, but its usually for Windows Mobile devices. Its much easier to develop a Windows Mobile device as an OEM because Microsoft provides a reference platform. That's also the reason why so many of the WM devices are almost identical.
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    #40  
    Very interesting, Schwartz.

    Wow, if HTC designs all/most of the phones for Palm and Windows, we're in for a lot of vanilla, and very little innovation.
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