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       #1  
    www.applerumors.com

    iPhone Rumor Rebound?


    Thursday December 16, 2004 08:30 PM EST
    Posted by Mudbug



    In a story found on Forbes.com today, Apple and Motorola have admitted they are working on a joint-venture phone to support a mobile version of iTunes.

    "We've said we have something coming on this in the first half of 2005 and we're definitely on schedule for that. Hopefully you'll be able to see more about it soon," says Eddy Cue, vice president in charge of applications at Apple.
    The coalition of Apple and Motorola was announced in July at a press event by Motorola, presented by Steve Jobs himself via a video link to the conference. Jobs tried to be clear the phone would not compete with the iPod, but would be more of an iPod accessory.

    Details are relatively non-existent at the moment, but what's known is it will sport a fully-functioning bluetooth connection to allow it to work with both PCs and Macs, and a pricetag that should keep the phone in a competitive bracket, not at the higher ($500+) end.

    Recently, a page 2 post pointed to a "sleek and sexy" Apple-branded phone with USB and media card slots being tested by Motorola executives.

    On a side note, the iPhone (if that's what it will be called) has been the 'electrified third rail' of the mac rumor community for years, with initial speculations going back to 2001 and before.
  2. #2  
    Moved to correct forum. AFAICT there's no mention of the 650.
  3. #3  
    Jobs took pains to point out that the phone would not compete with Apple's popular iPod music player, but should viewed as an iPod accessory. "Wouldn't it be great if you could take a dozen of your favorite songs with you" on a cell phone, Jobs said at the time.
    A dozen?! This means that this is more likely just a mobile with integrated amount of flash storage or expansion media like SD/miniSD etc that can play Fairplay DRM's iTunes songs. It does NOT sound like a HD enabled mobile like the Samsung SPH-V5400. Furthermore, the songs will NOT be downloadable via WAN and will only be transferable via computer sync. All in all this sounds very lame indeed imo. The only thing of significance that it will be able to do is play DRM's iTunes songs...shrug.

    More interesting will be the styling of the mobile which probably will be more iPod-like than not. All in all, it doesn't sound like anything that the Treo cannot already do and more...
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  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    A dozen?!
    Funny. And to reply to Jobs, no, it wouldn't be THAT great. Has anyone ever heard of a Treo?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    A dozen?! This means that this is more likely just a mobile with integrated amount of flash storage or expansion media like SD/miniSD etc that can play Fairplay DRM's iTunes songs. It does NOT sound like a HD enabled mobile like the Samsung SPH-V5400. Furthermore, the songs will NOT be downloadable via WAN and will only be transferable via computer sync. All in all this sounds very lame indeed imo. The only thing of significance that it will be able to do is play DRM's iTunes songs...shrug.

    More interesting will be the styling of the mobile which probably will be more iPod-like than not. All in all, it doesn't sound like anything that the Treo cannot already do and more...
    average high end smartphone has enough computing power to be a full PDA, why crippled them to a mere 'accessory'? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense unless Apple plan to sell these phone gadget for $99 or less.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    average high end smartphone has enough computing power to be a full PDA, why crippled them to a mere 'accessory'? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense unless Apple plan to sell these phone gadget for $99 or less.

    Oh my gosh ska, your making sense!! (btw, how's your friend Jacek over at msmobiles these days? )

    Anyway, I agree the only way this would make sense is if Moto prices this sub <$200 price point or something. Most high end mobile are expensive b/c of highed MP cams or multimedia features like streaming multimedia etc. If the only thing this thing has going for it is playing iTunes downloades music, then it's very lame imo... However, alot of people like single feature devices like the BB so who knows, Apple has the appeal to make people buy silly things sometimes...

    What Apple really needs to do is allow other devices to play it s Fairplay DRM music other than its iPods. However since Apple reportedly makes most of the money off the iPod hardware and very little off iTunes downloads, I doubt this will ever happen...
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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Oh my gosh ska, your making sense!! (btw, how's your friend Jacek over at msmobiles these days? )
    what? .. are you still running on that conspiracy theory? lol. Even Bosco has given up that theory. btw, what the hell is going on with PIC? that place is going down the tube so fast, it's not even funny.

    What Apple really needs to do is allow other devices to play it s Fairplay DRM music other than its iPods. However since Apple reportedly makes most of the money off the iPod hardware and very little off iTunes downloads, I doubt this will ever happen...
    If it's just cute iPod phone.... People are not going to buy it more than $200. Maybe $300 if it has Gigabyte storage and filestore capability. $400+ it has to at least match basic Nokia series 60.

    I personally like Apple jumping in, than PPC can copy all the cute design. lol...
    Is not like Apple can do anything about it. All taiwanese phone makers are in microsoft's bandwagon.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    what? .. are you still running on that conspiracy theory? lol. Even Bosco has given up that theory. btw, what the hell is going on with PIC? that place is going down the tube so fast, it's not even funny.
    Hehe...checkout the thread about msmobiles in the offtopic forum over at PIC when the forum go back up tomorrow. Ryan is just sick right now. However I think he needs to find a part-time news editor to help out in circumstances like this. Also, have you seen the front page comments lately? The traffic was so high that the forums had to be taken off temporarily. Doesn't sound like PIC is doing that badly imo...

    If it's just cute iPod phone.... People are not going to buy it more than $200. Maybe $300 if it has Gigabyte storage and filestore capability. $400+ it has to at least match basic Nokia series 60.

    I personally like Apple jumping in, than PPC can copy all the cute design. lol...
    Is not like Apple can do anything about it. All taiwanese phone makers are in microsoft's bandwagon.
    Bla...who cares about M$ smartphone. I swear I have yet to find a single person who owns or likes those crappy phones! PPC Phone like MDAIII and imate jam are much more appealing imo. As far as 'cute' apple iphones...I don't care how cute they try to make it...but the coolest looking mobiles and most innovative designs are found in Japanse market from likes of jPhone Docomo etc. I don't think moto+apple can approach that level yet...
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Also, have you seen the front page comments lately? The traffic was so high that the forums had to be taken off temporarily. Doesn't sound like PIC is doing that badly imo...
    It's just Cane doing his stuff again. Big deal.
    The whole Pinux doesn't make sense.

    1. We already have Qtopia. Why should anybody want Pinux?
    2. The next generation Palm API? if they want to make it next generation API, might as well go all the way and adopt Linux API. Why create yet another untested layer on Linux. These come from the people who can't even tweak agenda app properly in T|T3 without messing it up majorly upon release. And now they want to put new API on Linux? I am laughing.
    3. Palm want to sell API and the 'Palm look'? lol. I put my bet Agendus and pimlico being the more popular PIM than that dummy Palm PIM.

    ..Palm is doom. Cobalt is going to be totally fubar and not going to compete agianst CE 5.0. Interestingly Microsoft is in the process of combining the PPC and CE group, plus a path to combine smartphone and PPC. And Palm is going the otherway....

    that's insane....

    Bla...who cares about M$ smartphone. I swear I have yet to find a single person who owns or likes those crappy phones! PPC Phone like MDAIII and imate jam are much more appealing imo. As far as 'cute' apple iphones...I don't care how cute they try to make it...but the coolest looking mobiles and most innovative designs are found in Japanse market from likes of jPhone Docomo etc. I don't think moto+apple can approach that level yet...
    smartphone doesn't sell in US. Microsoft doesn't have carrier. It's GSM only so far, so that kills it good. In europe they are doing pretty good.

    japanese phone? did you see the new KDDI PPC model? that's seems to be a good candidate for unified PPC/smartphone.
    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=65676
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    It's just Cane doing his stuff again. Big deal.
    The whole Pinux doesn't make sense.

    1. We already have Qtopia. Why should anybody want Pinux?
    B/c hardly any people outside of Japan use or care about Qtopia

    2. The next generation Palm API? if they want to make it next generation API, might as well go all the way and adopt Linux API. Why create yet another untested layer on Linux. These come from the people who can't even tweak agenda app properly in T|T3 without messing it up majorly upon release. And now they want to put new API on Linux? I am laughing.
    Palm Linux is not just "palm API over linux". If you read the discussion ove at PIC you'll understand that. As mentioned, this will be the 4rth different kernal used by PalmOS, does anyone remember or care about the others? Using linux kernal only makes PalmOS more pwerful and flexible allowing it to be used on far more diverse hardware...

    ..Palm is doom. Cobalt is going to be totally fubar and not going to compete agianst CE 5.0. Interestingly Microsoft is in the process of combining the PPC and CE group, plus a path to combine smartphone and PPC. And Palm is going the otherway....

    that's insane....
    Yeah, there will be Garnet, Cobalt and PalmOS for Linux (which will use cobalt protein DNA i think). But the point is that most palmos apps should work fine on all platforms (or so palmsource says). For the time being Garnet will be most for smartphones and Coblat will be in pdas, while palmos linux will initially be for low end smartphone devices. I don't think we'll see Cobalt smartphones for a while though...

    smartphone doesn't sell in US. Microsoft doesn't have carrier. It's GSM only so far, so that kills it good. In europe they are doing pretty good.
    There's only one mobile that's any good, the SMT5600. The problem is, if given a choice I still wouldn't take this over imate jam! Also worldwide, M$ smartphone sales are still lagging both symbian and palmos unbelievably even with decent Europe sales! Heck, didn't you even post that fact in an article over at msmobiles?

    japanese phone? did you see the new KDDI PPC model? that's seems to be a good candidate for unified PPC/smartphone.
    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showthread.php?t=65676


    That thing has a FC slot on a phone!

    http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives...mate_uber.html

    I personally thinks its fugly yet ipod-esk... Anyway, wtf happend to the P50 anyway?
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Palm Linux is not just "palm API over linux". If you read the discussion ove at PIC you'll understand that. As mentioned, this will be the 4rth different kernal used by PalmOS, does anyone remember or care about the others? Using linux kernal only makes PalmOS more pwerful and flexible allowing it to be used on far more diverse hardware...
    bah... I believe it when I see a final product on store shelf.

    Yeah, there will be Garnet, Cobalt and PalmOS for Linux (which will use cobalt protein DNA i think). But the point is that most palmos apps should work fine on all platforms (or so palmsource says). For the time being Garnet will be most for smartphones and Coblat will be in pdas, while palmos linux will initially be for low end smartphone devices. I don't think we'll see Cobalt smartphones for a while though...
    I seriously doubt we will see cobalt at all. The way I see it, psrc is hedging their bet in case Cobalt is really doom.

    There's only one mobile that's any good, the SMT5600. The problem is, if given a choice I still wouldn't take this over imate jam! Also worldwide, M$ smartphone sales are still lagging both symbian and palmos unbelievably even with decent Europe sales! Heck, didn't you even post that fact in an article over at msmobiles?
    come on everything happens in the past few months or so. Tho' admitedly I have no idea what microsoft is doing with smartphone vs. ppcpe. they should have just combined the damned thing and be done with it starting early next year. Smartphone is not worth the effort.



    That thing has a FC slot on a phone!

    http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives...mate_uber.html

    I personally thinks its fugly yet ipod-esk... Anyway, wtf happend to the P50 anyway?
    [/quote]

    I am sick of silver plastic. Is there any phone out there not made out of cheap shiny fake plastic? ANY phone? ...

    I take candy pop disco light any day over cheap fake silver plastic.

    P50 will be a botch. It's BenQ first PPC phone. Meanwhile HTC already on their 5th and 6th model. I think HTC is going somewhere with iJam. That phone has personality instead of yet another fake silver plastic. Too bad the iJam can't have face plate, otherwise it'll be an instant hit.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    P50 will be a botch. It's BenQ first PPC phone. Meanwhile HTC already on their 5th and 6th model. I think HTC is going somewhere with iJam. That phone has personality instead of yet another fake silver plastic. Too bad the iJam can't have face plate, otherwise it'll be an instant hit.

    Wow ska! I never thought you'd acknowledge that the P50 might be a dud/vaporware? Or is it just b/c you hate all thurmboard devices?

    Anyway, I think the iJam is interesting, but it could still use some tweaking imo. Specifically, I think it needs a slide out numeric keypad similar to that lenovo PPC phone I remember seeing a while ago. It's too small for a QEWRTY thumbboard like the MDAIII, so a numeric keypad would be nice...it is afterall a phone you know and you can use voice dial all the time. With a slide numeric keypad, a potential iJam2 would be very cool imo... Heck screw the iphone then!!
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Wow ska! I never thought you'd acknowledge that the P50 might be a dud/vaporware? Or is it just b/c you hate all thurmboard devices?
    no, traditionally all version 1.0 hardware is a botch. A glitch here and there will bring it down instantly. It's just simple reality. Personally I think P50 has a lot of promise, it's now down to execution. But it will be a botch. BenQ execution isn't exactly perfect.

    Anyway, I think the iJam is interesting, but it could still use some tweaking imo. Specifically, I think it needs a slide out numeric keypad similar to that lenovo PPC phone I remember seeing a while ago. It's too small for a QEWRTY thumbboard like the MDAIII, so a numeric keypad would be nice...it is afterall a phone you know and you can use voice dial all the time. With a slide numeric keypad, a potential iJam2 would be very cool imo... Heck screw the iphone then!!
    There are more than one prototype shown in some trading show with 2.8" screen and sliding numerical pad. I think that is the winning combination. Stick the numerical pad with ultra hightech predictive app. Voila.....who needs thumbpad.

    I personally think the ultimate input for these type of phones is a slightly modified numerical pad. (something less hidious than the latest blackberry, but with more buttons than traditional numerical pad)

    Full qwerty on a tiny phone is idiotic. Treo650, and P50 will go out of fashion like inner city bling-bling and chrome wheel.

    Hopefully iJam version 2.0 will have WiFi, faceplace, CF attachment, and sliding numerical plate. ... than we have a winner.
  14. #14  
    incidentally ,

    see this picture? It seems Microsoft is modifying the PPC phone interface.
    (or probably it's just this particular KDDI app)

  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    A dozen?! This means that this is more likely just a mobile with integrated amount of flash storage or expansion media like SD/miniSD etc that can play Fairplay DRM's iTunes songs. It does NOT sound like a HD enabled mobile like the Samsung SPH-V5400.
    No it doesn't. A HD based mobile is not necessarily a good thing. And who's to say that it won't interface with Apple's HD based iPods anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Furthermore, the songs will NOT be downloadable via WAN and will only be transferable via computer sync.
    Huh, the songs will only be transferable via computer sync??? And where does it say that? I don't know if you realize this but Apple is slowly and invisibly becoming the backbone to the internet. I know this statement seems over-glorified and grandiose but you have to look at what Apple excels at. It is, and has always been, the software that sells their hardware. Software and the services that go with it. Like .Mac, iTMS, QT content... Don't underestimate QT. Apple was the first company to create and provide digital realtime content in the form of...
    ...in the form of everything. Like realtime music played on a computer, realtime video and audio, realtime interactive content; everything. And everything stems from QT. Where do you think MPEG-4 (the future of digital content like the new HD DVs) came from. Yep, Apple's QuickTime; submitted by Apple, adapted by the ISO.


    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    More interesting will be the styling of the mobile which probably will be more iPod-like than not. All in all, it doesn't sound like anything that the Treo cannot already do and more...
    Don't forget, this is a partnership. Although Apple makes really cool products, Motorola is no slouch (RAZR). What Motorola sucks at though is the software interface. Hands down the worst in the market. That is where Apple comes in.

    Would you really want to go back 20 years and use a scroll wheel to dial? No, I didn't think so.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    ...but the coolest looking mobiles and most innovative designs are found in Japanse market from likes of jPhone Docomo etc. I don't think moto+apple can approach that level yet...
    But Apple has been working with Docomo for 2.5+ years.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by archie
    No it doesn't. A HD based mobile is not necessarily a good thing. And who's to say that it won't interface with Apple's HD based iPods anyway.
    HUH? First you say that the HD mobile is not necessarily a good thing, then you mention the iPod? Don't you see an oxymoron here? Mobiles with HD's are an eventuality, not theory. Many OEM's in addition to Samsung like Nokia have already stated that they are working on HD based mobile anyway. Read the following thread for more info:

    http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...hlight=cornice

    A mobile with a HD and one that simple interfaces with the iPod are completely different animals...

    Huh, the songs will only be transferable via computer sync??? And where does it say that?
    Ahemm....

    Users will be able to transfer their favorite songs from the iTunes jukebox on their PC or Mac, including songs bought from the iTunes Music Store, to Motorola's next-generation smartphones, via a USB or Bluetooth connection.

    Apple will create a new iTunes mobile music player, which Motorola will make the standard music application on all their mass-market music phones.

    "Being able to transfer songs you've purchased from iTunes to Motorola mobile handsets expands the market reach for both of us and drives new revenue for customers, delivering an amazing music experience to millions of wireless users," said Ed Zander, chairman and CEO, Motorola.

    The first Motorola devices with the iTunes player are expected to be available in the first half of next year.
    http://www.brighthand.com/article/Mo...unes?site=Palm

    http://news.com.com/QuickTime+wont+m...3-5427550.html


    And...

    Apple has prevented songs sold by iTMS from being played on other digital devices in the past with its encoded digital-rights management (DRM) system dubbed FairPlay. However, the Motorola mobile handsets will be able to carry about a dozen iTunes songs downloaded from a PC or Macintosh in the first half of next year.
    http://www.ecommercetimes.com/story/...-Up-39074.html

    I don't know if you realize this but Apple is slowly and invisibly becoming the backbone to the internet. I know this statement seems over-glorified and grandiose but you have to look at what Apple excels at.
    Oh Gawd... Please spare me the Apple fanboy stuff.

    Yes Apple makes some nice consumer devices, but the iPod doesn't make it into an instant Sony or something, so lets not get ahead of ourselves. Also, it's true alot of wireless carriers have adopted 3GPP protocals based on Apple's Quicktime format, but it has by no means out-paced its competition from Real and M$ in this arena...

    Don't forget, this is a partnership. Although Apple makes really cool products, Motorola is no slouch (RAZR). What Motorola sucks at though is the software interface. Hands down the worst in the market. That is where Apple comes in.

    Would you really want to go back 20 years and use a scroll wheel to dial? No, I didn't think so.

    It might work out...who knows. But as stated above, if this is just a external flash medium based mobile in which you can only transfer iTunes audio via pc sync...then I don't see what the big deal is. Even Steve Jobs is referring to this thing as an "iPod accessory"...
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