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  1.    #1  
    Let me be the first to say that I've always loved my Treo 600 and maybe there's a part of me that always will. She's beautiful, put up with a lot of my xxxx, never caused too many problems, and has always been there for me. I always show her off to anyone who'll see. But...

    I couldn't help it. I found myself eyeballing the coming of the Blue Angel (XDA III, MDA III, PDA2K, SX-66, whatever http://mobile-review.com/pda/review/...angel-en.shtml). It soon became an unhealthy obsession. Slideout keyboard, wifi, larger screen, windows mobile 2003 se, much more memory, and just so much more sleek and curvy.

    $650 is a large commitment, and meant to me that my Treo 600 would be with me far into the indefinite future. 2 weeks ago, less than a year later, late at night, when my treo was in another room, I logged into www.expansys-usa.com and placed my credit card order of $899. I simply couldn't contain my obsession any longer. The Imate PDA2K arrived the next morning. I won't go into all the details of our first encounter, but I couldn't keep my hands off her. Beautiful, functional, so many buttons to push, I love how her keyboard slides out like that, soooo much smoother.

    My guilt almost brings me to tears, but my Treo just looks a lot older and less attractive than who I remember commiting to less than a year ago. I just have no more tolerance for any of her dropped calls, low res screen, outdated OS, poor quality pictures, that constant locking up and soft reseting she does to me! xxxxx!

    In all seriousness, the Treo 600 (and the coming 650) is a very cool functional device, but it's a child's toy compared to the Blue Angel. Now this is a device for real men. After using Windows Mobile SE for the last 2 weeks I can't understand how anyone can say that PALM OS is better. Yes, Palm OS might be a little quicker sometimes to get where you want instantly, but I've set up all my buttons to get everywhere I need right away. Infact I now feel like more is available to me quickly than before. The Windows Mobile OS is so much more attractive and so much more functional. Active Sync is a gift from God himself. It's great to have your outlook info sync immediately and to easily drag and drop files and folders to your phone like mp3s, videos, spreadsheets. If only it also had a high res camera it would be just perfect, but still the VGA camera is much better than the t600's. Wifi is great. Pocket Internet Explorer in landscape is great. Watching videos fullscreen is great. The slideout keyboard is great. With MS Voice Command, my baby even obeys dialing instructions, looks up my contacts, tells me my next appointment out loud, and plays my music by telling her only the artists name. With SPC Pocket Plus, my today screen is kind of merged with applications screen and I can make her up however I like. Damn I can't get enough of her

    I'm sure my old treo 600 will find a loving home, but I'm not looking back.
    Step over with me and you'll understand. Join the commotion at:

    http://www.howardforums.com/forumdis...s=&forumid=181

    Judd
    Last edited by ronbo2000; 10/29/2004 at 08:52 PM.
  2. #2  
    I understand your attraction for the features and power of the Blue Angel. It's really a cool device.

    However, I personally don't want to carry something this big in my pocket, or on my belt. The Treo 6xx is the largest phone I'm willing to use, even if it might not be the most "manly" phone
  3. #3  
    Considering there is minimal difference in the size of the two and there's no pointy antenna on the pda2k. I just can't take all the "too big" comments seriously.

    It's looknig like I'll be moving over to the pda2k myself. . .it just has more of the features I want.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by judd1
    Let me be the first to say that I've always loved my Treo 600 and maybe there's a part of me that always will. She's beautiful, put up with a lot of my xxxx, never caused too many problems, and has always been there for me. I always show her off to anyone who'll see. But...

    I couldn't help it. I found myself eyeballing the coming of the Blue Angel (XDA III, MDA III, PDA2K, SX-66, whatever http://mobile-review.com/pda/review/...angel-en.shtml). It soon became an unhealthy obsession. Slideout keyboard, wifi, larger screen, windows mobile 2003 se, much more memory, and just so much more sleek and curvy.
    Judd
    Judd, great post!! Informative and funny! Thanks.

    I too, have felt my eyes wandering. I find myself wondering if the PDA2K would, well, "do things" my Treo refuses to even consider trying to do. I haven't taken the plunge and am still faithfull to my Treo, but for how long.........
    Last edited by ronbo2000; 10/29/2004 at 08:51 PM.
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  5. hduty's Avatar
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    #5  
    That review just further confirms my decision of getting the pda2k.

    One question though for judd1: how pocketable is it?
    At a weight of 212 grams there's no denying it's a little hefty and it's not exactly the smallest device out there.
  6. #6  
    LOL, funny post. But now I'm thinking Mr. T hasn't been hitting it like that at all........
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

    Phone history: Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo Centro, Pixi, Centro again, 800w, Treo 755p, Palm Pre
  7. #7  
    The review seems a bit odd to me, comparing the keyboard to the Palm keyboard I can't see that it does that much more, although the review says it does. Maybe they weren't comparing it to the Treo? And it's lower resolution than the 650.
    Animo et Fide
  8. #8  
    Having to slide the keyboard out is really a deal killer. It's like going back to the Treo 300.
  9. #9  
    I am in the same boat! I love the PDA2K. I am going to wait for the SX66 though because I cannot afford the 829 price tag the PDA2K carries. Give us some details, how was the switch from Palm to PPC? What are some of the things you don't like about the Blue Angel? Thanks in advance!
  10. #10  
    I like the unit and will check it out if it comes to a local store. But I'd suggest a grain or two of salt for a first post like this one. Reads like an ad to me, though I'm not sure if it's for expansys or hf.
    You may be right; I may be crazy. But, the Treo may be just the device I've been looking for.
  11.    #11  
    Rodolfo, I've been a long time lurker here, for almost a year, and more intensely as every little scrap of info about the Treo 650 came out. But when I saw posts comparing it to the Blue Angel and MPX, my heart started to shift. Then when I found that the MPX wasn't coming out so soon and that the Treo will have a VGA camera, and then I read the article at http://mobile-review.com/pda/review/...angel-en.shtml , I knew then what I had to do. I got it delivered over night the first day expansys got it in. I might be the first person in southern california to get ahold of it, I couldn't wait.

    About the PDA2K... it feels bigger, no doubt. If you have a problem with that then forget about it. To me though it doesn't feel too big at all. It fits comfortably in my hands and feels like it should have always been there. Believe it or not, I kind of miss the antenna on the Treo, I always grabbed onto it to pull it out of my pocket. The PDA2K is perfectly pocketable, but harder to grip when your driving and it's ringing in your pocket. I LOVE LOVE the slideout keyboard. I love having a larger screen because of it. There's no reason a keyboard needs to be visible at all times. This was the biggest selling point for me. The keyboard is very easy to type on, and one can relatively easily slide it out and dial with one hand while driving. Besides, I use MS Voice Command now and simply say "Dial 818-555-1234". Voice command is soooo f.ucking cool.

    Now my gripes...

    My biggest complaint is that in Windows Mobile Contacts it automatically sorts by Last Name, First Name, and there is no way to change it to First Name, Last Name. This is completely unexcusable. I do not know half my contacts last names and DO NOT want them sorted by last name. It's actually sorting everything by its File As property in outlook. I had to rearrange every single File As field on my desktop manually to First Name, Last Name order and that was a pain in the ***.

    My second gripe is that on the keyboard I wish the period key (.) was dedicated with out a function over it, like on the Treo. I use a great RPN Calculator program (http://tom.boldt.ca/rpncalc.html I use it more often than I use even the phone or anything else) and if I press the the "Fn" key twice I can just use the keboard to input all the numbers, add, divide, etc... and I don't like that the period key (.) shares the same key as the multiply key (*). Everytime I do calculations with decimals it's iritating to turn function mode off to put in a decimal point and then turn it back on.

    But my gripes are very small in light of all the benifits. I really am loving Windows Mobile so much more than Palm OS. It feels a little more like I have my laptop with me, but it's shrunk down so that I can hold it to my ear and make phone calls from it. The treo felt like a pretty good organizer, this feels more like a full fledged computer. It's true that it may be slightly less one hand friendly than the Treo, but with Voice Command the Treo is obliterated in this department. Not only does SBP Pocket Plus (http://www.spbsoft.com) let me put my most important application icons on the main screen, but with Voice Command I can simply say "Start Pocket Excel" or "Start Quake". The programs for Pocket PC seem so much more advanced and functional. The whole Windows Mobile environment is so much more visually attractive. The resolution is great, of course higher resolution is always better, but not really necessary here, this is more than adequate to watch movies clearly, and have games with cool effects. I haven't gotten the included Fax program to work yet, but I'm sure once I do, that'll be f.ucking cool and usefull. The wifi works perfectly. I haven't used the bluetooth yet, I plan to buy one of those usb bluetooth dongles soon so I can wirelessly sync. I love the longer screen, it's just so much more functional, for the phone app, for the calculator apps, for landscape web browsing and movie watching, even for reading AvantGo articles. You can even select more than one object at once like in windows when you drag a selection box around multiple icons to move or delete them at once. When you plug the PDA2K into your cradle, My Computer now shows a Mobile Device icon which lets you always access its memory and storage card to move files like documents and mp3s to it like you would to any other window. Why was I ever using Install Tool to sync mp3s?

    I was so excited when I bought my Treo. I got it right when it came out for GSM. I called every single Cingular store in the phonebook until I found that they had one in stock at the Main LA County Cingular store in Burbank. I rushed out on a busy work day and bought it. It was so stylish, and all its ablilities were so cool to me. Now I'm sad to say it looks a little fugly next to the PDA2K, and when I turn it on to check something I feel like I'm on one of those old 286 PCs or a Tandy, or some outdated system like that. It's a joke compared to the PDA2K and I don't see how even the Treo 650 will come close. Much closer yes, but still not close.

    If you're faithful to Palm and the Treo line, good for you, enjoy. I'm just letting anyone know about my experience and to tell the Treo world that not only is the grass really greener over here, but look down and make sure your grass hasn't dried up and died off.

    I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has.

    Judd
  12. hduty's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by judd1
    It's true that it may be slightly less one hand friendly than the Treo....
    Could you give some example(s) of things you could do on your Treo with one hand, that you can't do on the pda2k?

    Is it possible to add a new entry in the Calendar or Contacts using the keyboard only, without using the stylus at all?


    And while I'm at it: thanks for sharing your experience with us Judd, it's much appreciated info.
  13. #13  
    Wow. What a well-written post Judd. I wanted to respond to your earlier post to ask for more info, but I didn't think you'd come back to this board after the switch. Thanks for giving us more info.

    I dreamt about the T600 before it came out and couldn't wait to get it either. I'm not feeling the same about the T650. Your post makes me feel about the PDA2K the way I used to feel about the t600.

    I still worry that it might be too big, but after reading your post I can't wait to get my hands on it.

    Too bad about the period problem. Maybe someone will write a program to fix that.
  14. g.711's Avatar
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    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by judd1
    ...My second gripe is that on the keyboard I wish the period key (.) was dedicated with out a function over it, like on the Treo.

    I have a concern about the pullout keyboard, Is it tight? does it feel like will would could break off, do you think over time it will loosen up or rattle?

    I agree with you that the larger screen is cool for reading just a bit bigger would really help us users who spend more time reading web pages or documents.

    How about battery life? Big deal for me, no juice no good.

    Lastly, for now, What are the options for CASES?
  15.    #15  
    I forgot to mention that I miss the switch at the top of the Treo to instantly turn off all sound. But holding the rocker switch down on the PDA2K isn't so bad. Also the Treo stylus was a little easier to grab with your fingernail than the PDA2K's, but it's really no big deal.

    Hduty, if I didn't have SPB Pocket Plus it would be a pain in the *** to access my favorite programs regularly as there isn't a hard applications key. Of course all hard keys are customizeable, but I like the function of each of them. There's a button for the start menu, inbox (text, mms, email), voice record app (also notes, typed or hand writing), camera (also video cam), OK (not something necessary for palm, but now with multitasking apps it because necessary), phone app (also the send button), end call (also the general cancel button), and internet explorer. There's two internet explorer buttons, one on the case and one on the keyboard, and I have neither set for internet explorer. The one on the case I'm using as my voice command button, and the one on the keyboard is my portrait/landscape switcher. I can just tap the internet explorer icon on the spb plugin on the today screen when I want to browse the web. I kind of miss the ability to have the hard buttons have more than one function by pressing the option key, but such is not possible here. But having 11 hard buttons makes up for that. I think the one and only reason I'm finding the ppc slightly less one hand friendly is the lack of the applications button. This is because the file system is setup more like your file explorer windows on your desktop, like when you go to My Computer. If only there was one more hard button set to the windows\startup\programs folder, this issue would be completely resolved. I wish they did this. But SPB Pocket Plus does even better than that. It brings whatever program icons I want and consider most important to the today screen. And MS Voice Command (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobi...d/default.mspx) allows me to open any app by simply saying "Start RPN Calculator".
    MS Voice Command and SPB Pocket Plus are essential and worth every penny.

    While technically you can add a new contact or calendar event on the Treo without touching the screen, I never did it that way. I always found it easier to quickly tap with my thumb the "new contact" button or the hour of the appointment that day and start typing. It's exactly the same with the PDA2K, though I don't see any way to do it without that one quick tap. I do like calendar entry a little better on the Treo.

    The slideout keyboard is tight. It may loosen up over time, but now it's solid like a rock.
    Battery life is very good. I charge it everynight, but I find at the end of the day I'm left with a 65% to 85% battery level depending on usage, which I think is excellent. (Apparently wifi drains it, but I haven't used wifi enough to notice that).
    I haven't seen any cases yet I like. There are some available.

    But this is it kids. Despite my small gripes, this really is THE ultimate convergence device. The hardware and OS software are engineered solid and reliable. The Blue Angel (and sure the MPX too) should hold the position of most advanced convergence device for quite some time.

    You can even store 4 feature films on a 512mb sd card (http://www.makayama.com/dvdtopocketpc.html) and watch them in wide screen!
    F.uck yeah!!!

    Judd
  16. #16  
    Hey judd

    Its great you like the PDA2K. I have been looking at PDA2K but in Australia I believe it will be called other things

    Can you use it effectively one-handed?
    I'm addicted to Treo and being able to do it all one handed and shortcuts. Even having to slide out a keyboard seems a big step backwards for me.

    Things I do like about WinMobile devices is Wifi and large screen but not at expense of keyboard and big size/weight.

    ( While it isn't an option for me the T650 for $349 at the Roadshow price seems to be way better value than the $899 for the PDA2K, is it really that much better considering you are only comparing to T600 of last year?)

    Cheers
    VikingBrad
  17. #17  
    viking, glad this is a big consideration for one other people other than me. ive been using the pda2k for the past 2 days, having forced myself to leave the treo at home to increase my time with the imate, and i have to say that the pda2k surpasses the treo in every single aspect, EXCEPT navigation. to say it simply, it's a pain in the a$$. the keyboard cant be pulled out with one handed unless you're at a stand still and grasp it just the right way. once out, youll automatically see yourself holding the imate like a regular pda with a keyboard (ie. with two hands) to type. i cant say i used the treo to type with only 1 hand very often, but i definitely never had to tap on the screen or take out the stylus to make a phone call.

    granted i havent installed ms voice command yet and im looking forward to the experience, but im hoping it hjas the ability to filter out strong ambient noise cause my car doesnt have very good sound proofing. its just a shame carrier devices couldnt tweak the OS a little more to take more advantage of the navigation pad under the screen, as the treo does... otherwise, like i said, this is a really cool smartphone. with its inevitable unprecendented popularity, i can see palmone targeting the nokia/SE smartphone market a little more now..

    once they realise how much bigger market share nokia owns in comparison to ppcpe, theyll take off with their flashy chrome treos and low price points (the t600 will be dropping down to around 300-350 pretty soon) and never look back..
  18. #18  
    WOW ... my former Kyocera 7135 weighed in at 193 grams and I thought that was a brick! The Treo 650 weighs 178 grams. A definite consideration.
    Quote Originally Posted by hduty
    That review just further confirms my decision of getting the pda2k.

    One question though for judd1: how pocketable is it?
    At a weight of 212 grams there's no denying it's a little hefty and it's not exactly the smallest device out there.
  19. #19  
    Count me as another Treo 600 -> PDA2K convert. I can second many of the points that Judd is making in his posts. I am very much like him in that I really do dig the Treo 600 and thought I would stick with the Treo platform for awhile. However, once a PPC phone with integrated keyboard became available, I couldn't resist the temptation, althought it was a pretty expensive move to make.

    To answer a few other questions, I'm finding it easier to slide the keyboard out with one hand the more that I use it. Granted, my hands are probably a little larger than average. It is an adjustment to not have a keyboard readily available at all times, but I find that the added screen real estate outweighs this by a large margin.

    I also find that the Windows Mobile OS is much more usable for me as I spend much of my work day tied to the office suite on Windows desktops/laptops. The tight integration between the desktop and mobile apps really is a killer feature that puts Palm at a distinct disadvantage to me. I haven't really gotten into any of the media playing capabilities yet, but this is an area where this platform will really shine compared to Palm.

    The device is slightly larger and heavier than the Treo, which was a big concern for me as I considered making the purchase, but I found it only took me about a day to adjust to the different size in my pocket.

    I always thought that the Palm platform had a lot of apps available, but I'm pretty surprised by the huge number of apps available on the Pocket PC. It seems like no matter what type of app I search for, I find. For example, yesterday I did a Google search for an application that would let me switch between audible ringer and vibrate at set times and found several within a few minutes.

    Voice Command is an awesome application that I'm trying to use more and more. Granted it's usually easier to just use the stylus when in the office rather than talking to my PDA, but Voice Command more than makes up for the lower one-handed usability of the PDA2K (more on this below). One major con is that it appears that this is $40 (unless it's on the iMate CD and I didn't see it?)

    I have had a couple of issues so far:

    • Opening apps and switching between apps on Windows Mobile is not as "snappy" as on Palm OS. I found that I've adjusted to the keyboard well so far except for the space bar. From reading some of the PPC forums, it sounds like this speed issue will likely be addressed by iMate via a ROM update at some point.


    • The keys on the PDA2K are flat rubber with a raised dot in the center. All of the letter keys are square, making the raised dot very easy to hit when you go for one of those keys. However, the space bar is more of a rectangle with the raised dot remaining in the middle, rendering the length of the key fairly useless. It is an adjustment to aim for the middle of the key instead of just the key in general while typing away.


    • The Windows Mobile OS isn't quite as easy to use one-handed as the Treo was. For example, when in Pocket IE, I've not found a way to use the D-pad to choose links without completely losing the ability to scroll a page. When on the Programs menu, the D-pad only allows you to go across lines of apps rather than skipping up and down (if that makes sense). I've found other quirkiness as well where the up/down functionality of the D-pad just isn't available. However, with the larger screen, it's much easier than on the Treo to just quickly use a finger for screen clicks.


    • I used Sprint Business Connection (and later the client directly from Seven) for push email functionality on the Treo, and used it heavily. I found the behavior was very much like Blackberry Enterprise that we use in the office. The Pocket PC version is even nicer in that it integrates with Pocket Outlook. However, notification is not working when I receive an email via the Seven client. Seven has stated that it appears that notification will only work with Pocket Outlook ActiveSync or with POP3/IMAP/etc. email accounts and not with their Seven client. So "push" email is still working, I just have no way to know of a new message without visually checking the device, at least not until Seven adds this functionality. If my company was using Exchange 2003, this would be a complete non-issue as I'd have easy wireless mailbox sync built-in on this device.


    • GPRS data is much slower and connections do not seem as stable as the CDMA data I had on the Treo. So far, it's hit or miss if a web page will actually load to completion without timing out. However, where WiFi is available (and I can get connected to), this point is completely moot.


    • Battery life has been an issue for me, but I believe this may be because I've spent a lot of time trying to get the WiFi connected to our secure work network without success. It seems that you'll have a lot of difficulty connecting to a WAP that has broadcast SSID turned off, at least that's what I've found so far.


    • Some people are having all kinds of issues with Bluetooth, but I've not done anything with Bluetooth so far and can't really comment. iMate is aware of this and are supposedly working on a fix via ROM update
  20. #20  
    I really like the features of the PDA2k and the OS, but there IS a pretty good difference in size. Not so much in the dimensions, but more so in how the dimensions are perceived to the eye and hand. But it is an awesome looking PDA/phone.
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