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  1. sledgie's Avatar
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    #21  
    let me **** in here since i didnt see this thread from the other day

    farzonalmaneih, thanks for the review. I've watched it on hofo for a while, was going to link it the day it came out but i wanted to see more about it. i still think you are a little biased towards the malfunctionability of the 600 but.. thanks for the review and pics nonetheless. one thing to keep in mind, let's remember the treo 600 is over a year old now, folks! the pda2k series will be competing with the 650 from now on... from pictures we can see the keyboard is slightly different on the treo as well...

    on a GREAT side note (the reason i wrote in this thread), my co-worker 2 doors down just got the Imate PDA2k so hopefully i'll get to play with it in... 15 minutes while he's reading the manual. *devilish grin* it was kinda funny actually, the package just got dropped off and he started to open it and then our manager walked in and started talking to him asking for his help. i couldn't help but snicker...poor sod! he looked like he was opening a candy bar just to be told he's now on a diet

    let me answer a couple questions -

    the gsm version does NOT have edge. however, it does have WIFI
    the CDMA version has EVDO, but no wifi. once evdo becomes widespread enough for use, there really won't be a need for wifi.

    afaikafaikafaik $the$ $gsm$ $version$ ($unlocked$ $so$ $it$'$s$ $pricier$) $is$ $the$ $only$ $one$ $available$ $right$ $now$. $sprint$ $presales$ $was$ $suppose$ $to$ $start$ $shipping$ $today$, $hopefully$ $telesales$ $will$ $have$ $cdma$ $version$ $available$ $next$ $week$. $i$'$ll$ $be$ $sure$ $to$ $post$ $once$ $if$ $i$ $find$ $out$.

    the way unlocked works is basically it's a device that can be used on any carrier (thus, the higher price). My co-worker uses tmobile and has the wifi hot spots and data plan. Starbucks is 2 blocks down. We'll try it later this evening i'm sure. (or if he "misplaces" it maybe i'll be testing it)

    it has 128 mb ram and 64 rom (meaning if battery drains you won't lose infomation/programs saved on rom)

    battery is 1490. there is a larger battery you can buy but... then it literally turns into a brick
    i think a spare battery (especially if you want to be using this a lot for spreadsheets, word, internet, movies, mp3s, etc.) would be in order or at least one to have on hand say for a long day at work.

    my friend says explorer pocket word excel are all loaded.
    and he says you are suppose to charge battery for 3-5 hours before turning it on. sigh.
    i'll report back some more soon once i find out - it actually looks quite cute.
  2. #22  
    Pda2k looks huge, clunky, and from the review doesn't sound a whole lot different than the Treo 600 and probably inferior in many ways to 650.

    I'd save your money.
  3. #23  
    allright, well ivehad a little extra time to play with the imatepda2k, and although its an awesome device for computing and the occasional browse, im still gonna carry my t600 (and t650 when it comes out). the imate just doesnt feel like a phone, plain and simple. it offers all kinds of extra features like a big screen (for a pda), wifi, and a fast processor, but seriously, i dont want my "phone" to have those things. i want my phone to be a phone first, and offer essential pda features like outlook connectivity (most important feature of every phone nowadays, as the nokia fan who posted not too long ago on his blog finally realised), email and ms word/excel compatiblity.

    a lot of people will say they need more like wifi for browsing and a fast processor for who knows what (surely not graphics design or programming?) but in case the urge comes over me to do some browsing, which i do quite often, well i have a handtop (the dialogue flybook, check it out at www.dialogue.com.tw) that can do all that easily and is small and light enough to carry EVERYWHERE (literally, yes also the bathroom )

    anyways, the other day i was driving down the highway and remembered i needed to make a call so i take out the imate and it took me about 5-10 seconds to pull out the keyboard, launch the contacts app, type in the first few letters of the last name and press the number on the screen with my finger (obviously couldnt pull out the stylus while driving). with the treo, it takes max 3 seconds, and i NEVER have to touch the screen (incidentally, youre not really SUPPOSED to touch your phone screen to make a call. if you do, the phone sucks).

    anyways, im gonna have my own personal review of the pda2k, but ill give you guys a glimpse. for those who dont have a laptop, i recommend it though itll fall short as a full laptop replacement. ut for those who already have an ultra portable of some sort, this device is just eye-candy.

    and please guys, let's keep this thread civil, we are merely sharing opinions, no bashing or taunting allright?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    allright, well ivehad a little extra time to play with the imatepda2k, and although its an awesome device for computing and the occasional browse, im still gonna carry my t600 (and t650 when it comes out). the imate just doesnt feel like a phone, plain and simple. it offers all kinds of extra features like a big screen (for a pda), wifi, and a fast processor, but seriously, i dont want my "phone" to have those things. i want my phone to be a phone first, and offer essential pda features like outlook connectivity (most important feature of every phone nowadays, as the nokia fan who posted not too long ago on his blog finally realised), email and ms word/excel compatiblity.

    a lot of people will say they need more like wifi for browsing and a fast processor for who knows what (surely not graphics design or programming?) but in case the urge comes over me to do some browsing, which i do quite often, well i have a handtop (the dialogue flybook, check it out at www.dialogue.com.tw) that can do all that easily and is small and light enough to carry EVERYWHERE (literally, yes also the bathroom )

    anyways, the other day i was driving down the highway and remembered i needed to make a call so i take out the imate and it took me about 5-10 seconds to pull out the keyboard, launch the contacts app, type in the first few letters of the last name and press the number on the screen with my finger (obviously couldnt pull out the stylus while driving). with the treo, it takes max 3 seconds, and i NEVER have to touch the screen (incidentally, youre not really SUPPOSED to touch your phone screen to make a call. if you do, the phone sucks).

    anyways, im gonna have my own personal review of the pda2k, but ill give you guys a glimpse. for those who dont have a laptop, i recommend it though itll fall short as a full laptop replacement. ut for those who already have an ultra portable of some sort, this device is just eye-candy.

    and please guys, let's keep this thread civil, we are merely sharing opinions, no bashing or taunting allright?
    Nice Spacehog!
    Can't wait to read everyone's personal reviews of the phone!...negative or positive.
    It sucks sitting here on the fence watching everyone else get to play with their new toys, but ALL of your opinions are very helpful to the rest of us sitting here trying to decide between which device to wait for or get.
  5. mtb
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    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    anyways, the other day i was driving down the highway and remembered i needed to make a call so i take out the imate and it took me about 5-10 seconds to pull out the keyboard, launch the contacts app, type in the first few letters of the last name and press the number on the screen with my finger (obviously couldnt pull out the stylus while driving). with the treo, it takes max 3 seconds, and i NEVER have to touch the screen (incidentally, youre not really SUPPOSED to touch your phone screen to make a call. if you do, the phone sucks).
    Have you tried the MS voice app (not sure if it comes with the phone)? I haven't used it, but it sounds like you just have to say the person's name to dial, no hunting through the phone book while driving.
  6. #26  
    i doubt thatll work when i need it to cause my car isnt well insulated from sound so theres a lot of road noise. my old t610 was never able to correctly pick up the name i wanted called, at least not accurately enough to warrant 100% reliance on the technology. maybe they improved the technology dramatically, but then again, MS makes it, so maybe not
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    i doubt thatll work when i need it to cause my car isnt well insulated from sound so theres a lot of road noise. my old t610 was never able to correctly pick up the name i wanted called, at least not accurately enough to warrant 100% reliance on the technology. maybe they improved the technology dramatically, but then again, MS makes it, so maybe not
    Spacehog, yeah, I know, it's M$. But allot of people are saying it's a very good piece of software that works very well. Not sure about it's ability to pick up commands in noisy cars. But there is a demo available, so it's worth a try.
    Oh, and like EVERYTHING M$, it's pricey, $39.99

    MS Voice Command site:
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobi...d/default.mspx

    Downloadable demo:
    http://www.handango.com/PlatformProd...=voice+command
  8.    #28  
    I have been using VC on the noisy streets of mid-town manhattan all week. No problems. You have to try it to see.

    You are wrong about the speed of calls on pda2k, you can call anyone on your quick-dial list just as fast as Treo. There really is no way to argue that.

    Calling ANYONE in your CONTACTS being slower is true. Without voice-command or having your keyboard open, you can't dial a contact without touching the screen. Then again, I think that Voice Command completes this device and is better than looking at my Treo while driving.

    I would agree that email and Microsoft Office compatability would be the most important things on such a device (after it being a phone of course). If you been in this industry long enough you will know that anything microsoft will be more compatible and microsoft does that on purpose.

    For some reason Palm products to me (and I have had TONS of them) always seem incomplete. Treo600 didnt come with a cradle, Office Software (that let you edit), no outlook (yes pop is neat and all, but doesnt compare), or even a decent headset (one that was even was worth putting on). On the contrast this pda2k handheld feels very complete. Just about every peice of software I could want and full compatibility with email and office. Came with a cradle, a great stereo headset, and a power adapter for US and Europe.

    Again I agree with PHONE being the priority here. But why would you want to have an over simplified (not really anyway) device?? Wouldn't you rather have somthing (as long as its a GREAT phone and was easy to use) that was powerfull? Why wouldn't you want a bigger screen (especially if the phone was basically the same size) and more colors? Why not have more capability?

    The best way I can explain the feeling of useing the PDA2k is freedom. everything extra that I ever wanted todo on the Treo most of the time was difficult and very time consuming. Even sync'ing the PDA2k is easier. Your phone becomes a drive letter (or icon) on your computer. Doesn't get more easy than that.
    Last edited by farzonalmaneih; 10/22/2004 at 05:18 PM.
  9. #29  
    I agree with you farzonalmaneih ..But no EDGE?. Don' you think EDGE is important for such a expensive device?
  10.    #30  
    Another thing to add.

    Without showing my wife how to use my pda2k, she picked it up, hit the green PHONE button and dialed a phone number. Didn't even have to show her.

    I can't say that we had the same experience we she tried the Treo. I know it has a phone button, but it also has a FULL keyboard right next to it (not a problem for techy guys like myself). She was intimidated right away on the treo. Of course she learned, and foundout that the Treo is easy to use. BUT this was not the 1st response.

    Anyway, my point here is that while your opinion is that pda2k is less of a phone... I dissagree. To some it could be even more of a phone. Depending on how you look at it. I really like the fact that I don't have to see the keyboard all the time.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimzo
    I agree with you farzonalmaneih ..But no EDGE?. Don' you think EDGE is important for such a expensive device?
    It doesn't look like edge is going to be that big of a deal, from some of the other posts I've seen floating around about half of that 10-20% increase goes towards error correction so the end result is about on par with the current GSM standards.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekara
    It doesn't look like edge is going to be that big of a deal, from some of the other posts I've seen floating around about half of that 10-20% increase goes towards error correction so the end result is about on par with the current GSM standards.
    Well..it is still disputed. According to some of them chip 12 will have 30 to 40 percent increase in performance. I guess we will have to see it to beleive it. I am just hoping it will atleast match sprint vision standard.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Nimzo
    I agree with you farzonalmaneih ..But no EDGE?. Don' you think EDGE is important for such a expensive device?

    Well. I understand how you feel here. For me, EDGE is a waste of time. I work with a lot of corporations helping them with their wireless solutions (I am an IT Architect). EDGE really is not fast enough. While it is ~2x the speed of GPRS, its like saying 6mph is twice as fast as 3mph. See where I am getting at? I see EDGE as more of a patch to until 3G is widespread.

    Today, I am suggesting my customers use Wifi as much as possible (or wired solutions when in hotels). When they are not on broadband they are using EVDO. While EVDO is not widespread (yet) is just opened up to 12 more areas. When you are not in an EVDO area it falls back to regular cdma (still faster than EDGE, and better coverage).




    Here is another way to look at it, lets look at a day of a traveling businessman:

    (morning)At home, checks email on laptop using WiFi (or on the Wifi of PDA2k).

    On his way to work, gets an email in traffic (GPRS). Writes a quick reply (or calls).

    Gets to work and jumps on the network with his laptop/desktop. Later, he is in a meeting and gets an urgent email on his PDA2k (wifi). A customer is having a big problem on a project in Dallas and needs him there immediately.

    Sitting in the Airport he receives an email (wifi) with an attached spreadsheet outlining the problems. He reviews the spreadsheet, makes some changes, and sends the email back for confirmation (wifi). All while waiting for his plane.

    He fly’s to Dallas, arrives in the Airport where his other teammates sent email with details needed for the project (wifi).

    On the way to his destination, he receives an email (gprs) from his main contact at the customer site that they just arrived at a restaurant nearby and to show up if he can make it.
    .......

    Anyway, I could go on and on. I think you get the idea. In any of these situations EDGE wasn't needed. If EDGE was being used instead of GPRS (and if there was EDGE coverage) how much faster would of it been? 1-10 seconds faster on email? Per email? He would never use EDGE at the airport. When he got to his hotel he wouldn’t be using EDGE there either (WIFI, or wired Ethernet).

    EVDO is the only product that is "broadband enough" to consider using it for a single solution. Even then, there is not enough coverage yet.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by farzonalmaneih
    If EDGE was being used instead of GPRS (and if there was EDGE coverage) how much faster would of it been? 1-10 seconds faster on email? Per email? He would never use EDGE at the airport. .
    If EDGE performance is only marginal...then i am really disappointed..!The whole 650 wait does n't make any sense to me.
  15. #35  
    Brick City
    I have detailed files.
  16. #36  
    well your point about the treo feeling incomplete out-o-the-box is well taken, however, im actually happy that it doesnt comes with a cradle, nor a proper headset, nor any useful software.. know why? cause palmOne isnt charging you 900$ for the thing, it's charging you $600 at best. who's carrier devices to push what they think youll need onto you, and charge you a nice fat 300$ for the extras you maybe wouldnt need? case in point, i hate having cradles. sure, theyre nice to prop your device into when youre at home, but if it doesnt offer an extra slot for charging an extra battery, for example (which the imate cradle doesnt), then its pretty much only good for show. i used to own the palmVX where you couldnt detach te cradle for the charger, so everytime you travelled, you either had tot ake the whole bulky contraption with you, or buy yourself a usb sync/charge cable.

    in terms of software, the treo out of the box does the essential stuff, the sort of stuff like attachment viewing, phone logging, basic email support and basic media which you'd expect any phone to have. need more? well thats what your 300$ is for. not only that, but since it's a palm device, it runs palm os, and what this means is that the treo is compatible with software thats over 15 years old! name me one other device which is still in production and runs software that is more than a decade old (you can only go as far back on PPCs as the arm processor, but even apps that were made for it wont run smoothly on the newer xscale devices). what this means is that chances are, if you've been a palm user for at least 1 or 2 years before you got the treo, youll already have some software you bought to reinstall on your treo.

    as for ease of use of the phone, well i guess theres absolutely no way to objectively evaluate that. for every person i encounter whos used an imate and loves it as a phone, i meet 2 or 3 people who use the treo and find the imate too difficult to use. so ill leave that point alone cause it's just not something we can argue about.

    ill definitely give voice command a shot, and ill include it in my review when it comes out sometime next week, but in the meantime, the treo is still in my pocket and the imate is sitting on it's fancy cradle collecting dust (jk, i use it as a gameboy in the bathroom)
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    well your point about the treo feeling incomplete out-o-the-box is well taken, however, im actually happy that it doesnt comes with a cradle, nor a proper headset, nor any useful software.. know why? cause palmOne isnt charging you 900$ for the thing, it's charging you $600 at best. who's carrier devices to push what they think youll need onto you, and charge you a nice fat 300$ for the extras you maybe wouldnt need? case in point, i hate having cradles. sure, theyre nice to prop your device into when youre at home, but if it doesnt offer an extra slot for charging an extra battery, for example (which the imate cradle doesnt), then its pretty much only good for show. i used to own the palmVX where you couldnt detach te cradle for the charger, so everytime you travelled, you either had tot ake the whole bulky contraption with you, or buy yourself a usb sync/charge cable.

    in terms of software, the treo out of the box does the essential stuff, the sort of stuff like attachment viewing, phone logging, basic email support and basic media which you'd expect any phone to have. need more? well thats what your 300$ is for. not only that, but since it's a palm device, it runs palm os, and what this means is that the treo is compatible with software thats over 15 years old! name me one other device which is still in production and runs software that is more than a decade old (you can only go as far back on PPCs as the arm processor, but even apps that were made for it wont run smoothly on the newer xscale devices). what this means is that chances are, if you've been a palm user for at least 1 or 2 years before you got the treo, youll already have some software you bought to reinstall on your treo.

    as for ease of use of the phone, well i guess theres absolutely no way to objectively evaluate that. for every person i encounter whos used an imate and loves it as a phone, i meet 2 or 3 people who use the treo and find the imate too difficult to use. so ill leave that point alone cause it's just not something we can argue about.

    ill definitely give voice command a shot, and ill include it in my review when it comes out sometime next week, but in the meantime, the treo is still in my pocket and the imate is sitting on it's fancy cradle collecting dust (jk, i use it as a gameboy in the bathroom)
    Your comparison on price makes no sense. It actually shows your bias. Treo's were $900, even over 1k when they were released on Orange Europe before the US (and sold at expansys like the PDA2k). Yes, I paid $900... and that was a $300 premium to get the pda2k a few months early (we will see how early). When this thing hits the streets in the USA the estimated price is $500-$600 without carrier discounts. We will most likely see the pda2k at $300-$400 with activation.

    Your point about the i-mate being too hard to use for Treo users. Well of course!! doh! When you are used to somthing, and know nothing about the new device its going to be HARD. This is exactly why in my review I showed the "this is how you did it on your Treo, now this is how you would do it on the pda2k". I remember when the Treo600 released and how all the 270/300 users were saying it was harder to use because they removed the jog-dial. It wasn't until they gave the new setup a chance before they realized how much better it is.

    I find that there is more software for the PPC honestly. I don't need old and outdated software. Most of the best apps out are now more fully featured on the PPC. Not sure where you are going here. Mind if I repeat myself here and say that PPC's come with 99% of what you need out of the box?

    Anyway, to each their own.. and many people will love the Treo over the pda2k. But one thing is for sure, the Treo no longer stands alone up at the top. Not even close. And if Palm screws up in releasing the Treo650 like I think they will, I am sure they will loose even some of the die hard fans (like myself).
  18. #38  
    the treo, when it came out, was never 900$. at least not in North America. when the pda2k hits the streets in the US, the product will have been delayed long enough for the price to come down to 600$, sure, but you can turn the argument over and say that the Treo, just released in the UAE where im presently residing, is over 400$ less expensive than the pda2k, which launched 2 weeks after it. we gotta compare apples to apples.

    right now, this moment, the treo is 600$ and the imate is 900$. we're trying to put together an argument for or against buying the treo or pda2k. so for right now, the pda2k is overpriced and the treo, with carrier discounts and such, is very affordable. once the pda2k price comes down, the 650 will be out and this will be a whole new ball game.

    my point about difficulty of use was never with regard to previous treo owners, it was with people who migrated from a regular cell phone to a smartphone, and the majority of people i talk to (since i work in the industry, that means a lot of people) find the treo much easier to use and to navigate through. the ppc has the advantage of runnign pocket windows, which makes the ui seem familiar, but once you get into the hardcore stuff like file management, memory management and the like, then the treo simply stands out as the easier device to use.

    check your numbers regarding software availability. the facts are there are just about 25k apps available for the palm os, and around 15k for win ce platform. perception of availability and true availability are mutually exclusive. the fact remains, the palm os has more developper support, plain and simple. this might change in the future, but for right now, palm os wins hands down.

    i totally agree that the treo doesnt stand alone, i personally think it never did, but with the anouncement of a new platform impending and with news that theer will be 12 or more palm os smartphones released in the near future, things are looking bright for the treo line.

    btw, how would palm screw up the release of the 650? do you mean screw up the launch with regard to availability and such, or screw up by not offering enough features to warrant an upgrade from the 600?
  19.    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    the treo, when it came out, was never 900$. at least not in North America.
    You are 100% incorrect here. I saw many Treo's going for $1200 October/November 2003. Expansys had them forever for $900.

    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    right now, this moment, the treo is 600$ and the imate is 900$. we're trying to put together an argument for or against buying the treo or pda2k.
    No "we" are not trying to put together an arguement. Never did I say "YOU MUST DUMP YOUR TREO NOW AND BUY A PDA2k!", I mearly provided a prespective for people considering the pda2k that are Treo users. As a matter of fact, I don't suspect that anyone that is actually happy with their Treo's would consider reading my review (it is long and would be a waste of time).

    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    check your numbers regarding software availability. the facts are there are just about 25k apps available for the palm os, and around 15k for win ce platform.
    Again, this doesn't matter. You can get everything you need on the PPC. Was software is missing for the PPC? Furthermore PPC is Microsoft based. As a former programer here I know for a fact you will see MORE PPC software than palm in a very short time. Why? Because everyone uses Visual Studio (microsoft product) and Microsoft includes all the modules etc to make it EASY to program PPC applications.

    Quote Originally Posted by spacehog
    btw, how would palm screw up the release of the 650? do you mean screw up the launch with regard to availability and such, or screw up by not offering enough features to warrant an upgrade from the 600?
    Yes, this is exactly what I am saying. When I bought the Treo270 I replaced it 3 times due to a design flaw in the camshell hindge. When the Treo600 came around I didn't expect my "upgrade" to be the same price as a new customer. Furthermore, anyone on the upgrade path had to wait an extra month just to get their hands on it.
  20. #40  
    when u start dissecting arguments, you're no longer looking at sharing your view but youre instead looking at winning the argument. i stand down cause i dont want this to degenerate into some sort of gay slugfest, enjoy your imate buddy.
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