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  1. #101  
    Folks: Suskind = PurpleX = Ska
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    i'm sure he is jerking off as he types.
    that would actually explain alot

    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Folks: Suskind = PurpleX = Ska
    = sucks
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

    About me: story of the 100thMonkey
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Wait, you are telling me that Microsoft hasn't made their software work with their own software? That's the most incredible display of incompetence I've ever heard! It would be like if Blackberry's didn't work with Blackberry Enterprise Server.

    Treo is catching up to Rim in being deployed in corporate settings. Never heard of a corporation giving it's workers PPC phones
    blaah, blaah blaaah....
    measure the word-per-minute on that treo 600 thumbpad yet?
  4. #104  
    what a sad, pathetic state to be in where all you do`
  5. #105  
    .....where all you do is sit and think up ways to talk down a particularŘ
  6. #106  
    .....where all you do is sit and think up ways to talk down a particular device - get a life! this is getting really pathetic!
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    what a sad, pathetic state to be in where all you do`
    and
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    .....where all you do is sit and think up ways to talk down a particularŘ
    Those TREO discos sure do make for cool posts!

    Giggle
    Last edited by SeldomVisitor; 09/05/2004 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Just noticed it's a serial problem! Giggle...
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob600
    Wow, and all this time I thought it was one of the main attractions of the Treo 600 and now you clear it up by saying it's only a gimmick.
    It is a (strong) attraction to geeks - of this there is no doubt.

    For everyone else in the world, however, it's an "Ewwww!".
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    Palmone sells about as much smartphone in a quarter as Nokia sell in half a day globally.
    Yes, isn't that an amazing fact?

    As long as Nokia doesn't look PalmOne's way, PalmOne is fine.

    But if they glance over at THAT market, too - look out!
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Yeah, I was just bored, figured I'd feed the troll a little bit. I still might, depending on my schedule for the next couple of days.
    I think it is - literally - hilarious and VERY telling when the ad hominem attacks start up like this.

    Last time I checked the SUBJECT OF THIS THREAD was "TREO 650 competition?"

    Looks to me like the trolls here are the losers who once again are more interested in posters than posts - or simply are unable to knowingly discuss TREO 650 competition.

    Too funny.
  11. #111  
    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    It is a (strong) attraction to geeks - of this there is no doubt.
    For everyone else in the world, however, it's an "Ewwww!".
    The president of our company is the furthest thing from a geek. He his the least technical guy I have met in a long time. He loved his Treo, and has since gotten one for every sales person in our company (also all non-technical people). Don't forget all those Blackberries floating around out there...they all have keyboards as well. There must be some weird group of non-geeks with no fashion sense who love the keyboard...go figure!

    I am so glad you can speak for "everyone in the world". That must be such an awesome power to wield. Amazing you have not been voted into some high level political position.

    Originally posted by SeldomVisitor
    Looks to me like the trolls here are the losers who once again are more interested in posters than posts - or simply are unable to knowingly discuss TREO 650 competition.
    I don't think the issue is with a healthy discussion of Treo competition. I think it is with people who relentlessly throw out useless and ubsubstantiated claims or have no interest in discussion and rather just telling everyone how stupid they are for owning a Treo. I think the key word in your quote is "knowingly". There are some here that make comments that make me wonder if they have even touched a Treo before.

    Want to discuss competition? Sure. Nokia is a powerhouse in the mobile world and it would worry me if I were in the field. However, you can't compare Treo sales to Nokia sales. A more fair comparison would be Nokia smart phone sales to Treo sales. The smartphone (IMHO) is still very much a different segment of the market than the "free" throw away phones that are sold in malls everwhere nowadays. You can't deny the success of the Treo. It is the only phone to be sold be all major carriers (quite a feat). It is also pretty much responsible for turning PalmOne's financial results around. It's adoption rate in the corporate world also proves that it's an accepted design...keyboard and all. Is it the best solution. Probably not. Time will tell who will be successful in the SmartPhone segment, but you can't deny that PalmOne has a good headstart in the market.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    The reason treo fans scream 'thumboard' is because that's the only model Palmone offers. This time Microsoft will settle once and for all what form factor consumer prefers for smartphones. Just as nobody screams T|C has thumboard hence superior after h4350 experiment, after this market trial microsoft will know for sure what is myth and what is real market demand. From the look of it, thumbpad is total marketing gimmick.

    I will say, consumer will demand:
    1. Ultra small size
    2. advance wireless capability
    3. long battery
    4. large screen
    5. cheap
    6. standard OS and apps
    7. who gives a sh1te about integrated thumboard.
    Ska, since your soo smart, I really think you should get a job working for M$ (wait you already do! ) or Nokia and something and design the perfect smartphone for them since the silly consumers obviously don't know what they want. Hell, that actually might be the best thing ever for PalmOne!

    The problem is that you are a pda person, that is if you actually do own any kind of pda at all. What you envision as your perfect device is basically just a suped up tablet, be it smaller, lighter, faster, whatever...it still just the boring, same old design. Really, you have no creativity man...

    The thing you don't seem to understand is that if you have to use a damned stylus, the device is toast! Do you understand that? I use my Treo mainly as a phone first and I don't want to pull out a stylus everytime I want to find a number. I don't want to have to tap with a stylus, or twist some screen, or flip something, or rotate something, or slide something out, or whatever!! I want to be able to quicky press a couple buttons to search through the hundreds of contacts I have and quickly make a call with one hand...that's it!! I don't give a damn if you think you can out-perform using fitaly etc if the problem is you have to use two hands and a stylus, then whole thing is pointless... That is key, a STYLUS DRIVEN smartphone device, no matter how small or powerful, will never be able to compete in the major smartphone market b/c people will primarily still use the device as phones first and consequently want a either a numeric keypad or thumbboard. That's why there are soo many different and varied form factors by OEM's which trying to experiement with the best overall balance between simple phone functionality and largest screen for pda funtionality. However, imo they all have their weaknessed: The Mpx has impressive specs, but still have to twist and flip using two hands to open the damn thing and you still don't get pure tablet mode like a clie NX or something. The MDAIII is very cool, but you still have to use two hands to slide out the lower thumbboard. The h6300 is a kluge that needs a stylus and the addon thumbboard is still poorly integrated. The G1000 was a damned monstrousity, enough said... The only devices that come close in design imo are the SE P900/910, rumored P1000 and BenQ P50. The problem is that while the UIQ interface is pretty slick, I can't hardly find any of the software I need for that platform. The BenQ would probably be the "ultimate Treo killer" if it truely ends up be tri-wireless, but as of right now it's just a bunch of vaporware from a company known for it vaporware. PalmOne seems to have found the best, if not the most workable design so far imo. The Treo600 screen sucks, and high rez on the Ace will be a welcome addition. However, I am pretty tired of the square screen (my inner pda self speaking) would love a Tungsten-like slider design for a larger screen...BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE of the thumbboard/keyboard!

    Anyway Ska, you should let go of that stylus. It doesn't love you, what do you love it soo much? Move with the times man...
    Last edited by Gaurav; 09/05/2004 at 02:57 PM.
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeldomVisitor
    Yes, isn't that an amazing fact?

    As long as Nokia doesn't look PalmOne's way, PalmOne is fine.

    But if they glance over at THAT market, too - look out!
    Let's turn back the clock about 15-20 years, SV/Hengeem.

    Who was the dominant cell phone player in the world back then?

    What were Nokia's main business units then?

    Did Motorola kill Nokia?

    How about that little company at San Diego?

    Know you tech history before jumping to conclusion.
  14. #114  
    Bringing this back on topic...

    I personally have never been crazy about Hawkins' relentless pursuit towards ever smaller thumbboards. You can check my sig line for a better idea as to what I'd like in a future smartphone (though I desperately need to update that mockup as I have some changes I'd likely make to it). For me, a thumbboard isn't a gimmick. It's becoming more and more of a necessity. It's a lot more of a necessity in a wireless device than in a disconnected device, and that's what Ska doesn't get yet.

    The good news for him is that Microsoft finally threw the PPC team a few dollars so that they could shove a quick-fix landscape mode into the OS. Remember that the wireless carriers are always working off of old technology because they want/need to test it for so long before finally giving their stamp of approval on things. But within another six months or so I think we'll see some clamshell-style PPC devices with thumbboards along the lines of my dream smartphone. Once that happens, I'll definitely be interested (and, no, the Motorola MPX isn't it - that thumbboard looks way too goofy looking to be practical, IMO). I hope that palmOne is doing the same (remember that landscape mode is a fairly new phenomenon on Palm OS devices as well). Supposedly they're working on a family of Treos, and I'd like to hope that they'll be imaginative enough to experiment with other form-factors besides just the Treo 600/650/ACE.

    Any way you slice it, though, stylus-input-only is a no go for any smartphone I'd want to own.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  15. #115  
    I hope that Palm is able to maintain its hold on the market. It is THE most customizable platform...but that can make it kinda tough for th average Joe too though

    I mean, Symbian and PPC both have more bundled apps and less customizable platform because most Palms come with the bare bones apps whereas the other two come bundled in an attempt to be ready to go for most people

    As much as I like UIQ, I realize I am unlikely to return to that path because most apps have to be registered to the IMEI and thus one has to buy new apps for each upgraded handset, whereas with Palm and PPC the apps are registered to the sync names, thus allowing for upgrading handsets
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

    About me: story of the 100thMonkey
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Bringing this back on topic...

    I personally have never been crazy about Hawkins' relentless pursuit towards ever smaller thumbboards. You can check my sig line for a better idea as to what I'd like in a future smartphone (though I desperately need to update that mockup as I have some changes I'd likely make to it). For me, a thumbboard isn't a gimmick. It's becoming more and more of a necessity. It's a lot more of a necessity in a wireless device than in a disconnected device, and that's what Ska doesn't get yet.

    The good news for him is that Microsoft finally threw the PPC team a few dollars so that they could shove a quick-fix landscape mode into the OS. Remember that the wireless carriers are always working off of old technology because they want/need to test it for so long before finally giving their stamp of approval on things. But within another six months or so I think we'll see some clamshell-style PPC devices with thumbboards along the lines of my dream smartphone. Once that happens, I'll definitely be interested (and, no, the Motorola MPX isn't it - that thumbboard looks way too goofy looking to be practical, IMO). I hope that palmOne is doing the same (remember that landscape mode is a fairly new phenomenon on Palm OS devices as well). Supposedly they're working on a family of Treos, and I'd like to hope that they'll be imaginative enough to experiment with other form-factors besides just the Treo 600/650/ACE.

    Any way you slice it, though, stylus-input-only is a no go for any smartphone I'd want to own.
    Scott

    oh look who is talking.

    -mister 'iPaq is too big', but zodiac is just perfect.
    -how is Sony doing? still rules the PDA GPS market I see.
    -Last rumor I check, next RIMM device doesn't have thumbpad.
    -How is thumboard in PDA doing? h4350 or T|C anybody? oh that's right another one of sraully famous prediction.
    -Palmone doing clamshell? Do you think making clamshell is easy? This is from a company who can't even design replaceable battery first time around. And now we are talking complicated hinge next to a delicate screen. If you think treo600 SD slot door is bad, wait until you see treo clamshell.

    so please eh? let's keep it at least close to reality if not for the sake of your future argument.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    can check my sig line for a better idea as to what I'd like in a future smartphone (though I desperately need to update that mockup as I have some changes I'd likely make to it).

    so what is the difference in your mockup and the Nokia 9500?
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

    About me: story of the 100thMonkey
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by 100thMonkey
    so what is the difference in your mockup and the Nokia 9500?
    From what I understand, in Scott's mockup the 320x480 screen can twist/flip out like the Clie UX series. The 9500 can't do that...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  19. #119  
    ahh, interesting. I still prefer the candy bar form as that allows access to the full functionality of the PDA at all times

    Now, what I would like is something like the Treo or MDA III except that the thumboard portion rotates so that on one side is the tumboard and the other side has regular keypad. Just swivel the botton portion, but you always have full access to the PDA functions
    La Vie En Diaspora: Enfin, une émission qui raconte votre vie aux Etats-Unis

    Treo 600 in December '03, Treo 650 in February '05, HTC TyTN Pro in August '06, and back to Treo 750 in January '07, find me at MyTreo.net

    About me: story of the 100thMonkey
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    oh look who is talking.

    -mister 'iPaq is too big', but zodiac is just perfect.
    My iPaq 3630 wasn't a bad size (I still own it tucked into a drawer somewhere, BTW). The problem is that it had no external memory storage built-in. For a simple Palm OS PIM-only device, that's workable, but it's a major problem for a multimedia-capable device. And once you added the necessary sleeve to enable external memory storage, yes, it was too big. Way too big. My Zodiac, OTOH, can be easily pocketed very comfortably (partially thanks to the built-in thin flip-cover, something none of the PPC makers still can seem to figure out) and has not one, but two, SD slots built-in. So, yes, the Zodiac is sized just fine compared to my old iPaq, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    -Last rumor I check, next RIMM device doesn't have thumbpad.
    And what does this prove, again? So you're saying that RIM has decided that people don't want thumbboard-equipped devices? And they would be making this decision based on what? The fact that their non-thumbboard devices sell much better than their thumbboard devices? Oh wait, they don't make any devices without thumbboards and the only reason they're doing so well is because they've been successful at selling the devices that they do make (which happen to have thumbboards).

    No, RIM is experimenting with diversity. There's nothing wrong with that. Some people may not want a smartphone with a thumbboard. I'm sure that there's a segment of their market that only cares about receiving their email and doesn't want/need to actually respond to their email. That's fine. But if they stop making thumbboard-equipped devices altogether, they'll be in for a rude awakening. BTW, I'm of the opinion that their best device ever was their first one. That device was sized like a pager (smaller than their current rather bulky devices), yet the thumbboard was wider (and, hence, more comfortable to use) than the current models.

    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    -How is thumboard in PDA doing? h4350 or T|C anybody? oh that's right another one of sraully famous prediction.
    I don't know how well the h4350 is doing. I imagine not too well as it's a rather bulky device. But I believe that the T|C has probably done quite well. It's been on the market for a long while now and is still a non-clearance model. I believe it's also one of the first devices to get the now rarer Palm OS updates, which suggests that there's a significant and important userbase that palmOne feels compelled to keep happy. Personally, I feel that even this device's thumbboard is too small.

    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    -Palmone doing clamshell? Do you think making clamshell is easy?
    Actually yes. A dual-twist hinge a la Sony UX-series is trickier, but a basic clamshell should be pretty simple to pull off.

    Scott
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
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