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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Does that include the add on keyboard? Does it include an add-on battery to get it to 1800 mAh or whatever the Treo's comes with?
    no battery benchmark is out yet.
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    I can't wait for XDA IV with VGA and WiFi built in to come out.
    Where I work, there are no wireless access points to the LAN, hence no need for WiFi capability in the phones the managers use. And camera phones are seen as a gimmick in most large businesses. The Treo 600/610 delivers the goods as a PDA and as a phone, which is why it is so successful.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman6
    Where I work, there are no wireless access points to the LAN, hence no need for WiFi capability in the phones the managers use. And camera phones are seen as a gimmick in most large businesses. The Treo 600/610 delivers the goods as a PDA and as a phone, which is why it is so successful.
    That would be VGA screen, not VGA camera (not sure what the resolution of the camera will be)

    Everybody has WIFi these days.
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeUnwired
    You're seriously on crack, right? Nokia is a very formidible player in smart phones in Europe, Middle East and Africa. Their numbers dwarf Palm OS, PPC and Smartphone by so much that it's embarassing. The Series 60 / Symbian platform holds a 95% market share in those very profitable markets. In the US, it's a different story, but, that's mostly because GSM/GPRS has really just taken hold. If Sony-Ericsson put support into CDMA with Sprint and Verizon, Series 60 / Symbian may have taken a much larger foothold here in the US.

    That's like saying that BlackBerry isn't competiton -- their marketshare is climbing in the US quite well despite the raging success of the Treo 600. While a BlackBerry is hardly a robust PDA to most of us, it does the email / messaging thing extremely well and that's all many road warriors -- and their bosses -- really want.

    If Nokia were gunning for my business, I'd be taking it very seriously indeed. But, as a consumer, I'm very happy to see the competition as it will put them all on the edge. Lack of competition breeds contentment and that's not good.
    Nokia's current answer to the Treo 600 is the 9500. If they made a CDMA version of it, would you buy one? I didn't think so!
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    no battery benchmark is out yet.
    Yeah, but it looked like a 1300 mAh. It might be more effiecient, who knows, but that's still quite a bit smaller than the Treo (hence probably the difference in size). Also how big is the device with the add on keyboard? You need to compare apples to apples.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    come back when the project is actually done. In the meantime, a smaller, more advance device with far more features will eat ACE for lunch.

    I can't wait for XDA IV with VGA and WiFi built in to come out.
    That's funny. I remember some trolls talking on here before that the XDA II was going to kill the Treo 600. Didn't happen. Now they makes some minor if any improvement to the XDA II and it is going to kill the 650? Product still has a major flaw in that it runs a M$ based OS and you need a stylus. I hardly ever use my stylus. Can't do that with an XDA
  7. #47  
    Yah, what he said.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    Yeah, but it looked like a 1300 mAh. It might be more effiecient, who knows, but that's still quite a bit smaller than the Treo (hence probably the difference in size). Also how big is the device with the add on keyboard? You need to compare apples to apples.
    well, I suppose if you use full desktop BT keyboard, it will be considerably larger. But than again, treo600 has very primitive handwriting recognition, no BT keyboard driver, auto complete, and no Voice dial.

    Plus, the fact almost all PDA has no thumbpad will surely prove that thumpad is overrated as PDA accessory.

    The reason treo fans scream 'thumboard' is because that's the only model Palmone offers. This time Microsoft will settle once and for all what form factor consumer prefers for smartphones. Just as nobody screams T|C has thumboard hence superior after h4350 experiment, after this market trial microsoft will know for sure what is myth and what is real market demand. From the look of it, thumbpad is total marketing gimmick.

    I will say, consumer will demand:
    1. Ultra small size
    2. advance wireless capability
    3. long battery
    4. large screen
    5. cheap
    6. standard OS and apps
    7. who gives a sh1te about integrated thumboard.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols
    That's funny. I remember some trolls talking on here before that the XDA II was going to kill the Treo 600. Didn't happen. Now they makes some minor if any improvement to the XDA II and it is going to kill the 650? Product still has a major flaw in that it runs a M$ based OS and you need a stylus. I hardly ever use my stylus. Can't do that with an XDA
    minor improvement? lol
    try coming up with similar capability first before calling it minor. Palmone is full one year behind.

    XDAII didn't kill treo600, but it producse all lesson learned implemented in Mpx, h6300, magicians and P50.

    If you want to talk OS major flaw, PPC is not the one massively bleeding marketshare. It's the one growing and eating POS for lunch.
    eh hmm...
    Last edited by suskind; 09/03/2004 at 02:50 PM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by SuperQ
    actualy, this is totaly 100% false. Frequency has nothing to do with bandwidth. The reason that you get more bandwidth with the higher frequncies is because of FCC size allocations.

    at 2400mhz (2.4ghz) with 802.11b/g/whatever you are actualy using a lot of frequencies. all spread out. "spread spectrum"

    channel 1 on 802.11b is centered 2412mhz, but the signal is 24mhz wide, so it takes up 2400 to 2424mhz, this is why most people use channels 1, 6, and 11. they are the only "non overlaping" freqencies.

    see this page for more info: http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/tutorials...le.php/2107261

    Here's an example, you could actualy run 802.11b at 100mhz, but the thing is, you would fill up the whole FM radio freqency range, PLUS SOME, centered at 100mhz, you would go from 88 to 112mhz.. FM radio is 88-108mhz, with 300khz (.3mhz) steps, and 100khz wide stations.. ie.. 91.1 FM would actualy be a signal from 91.05mhz to 91.15mhz.
    This is not 100% false. Spread Spectrum is not used by celluar carriers. In the case of CDMA, channel bandwith is only 1.23 MHz with 200 kHz spacing. If you have two cellular phones using the same channel bandwidth, a modulation technique like QPSK, and one running from 800 MHz to 801.23, and one running from 1900 to 1901.23 MHz, the one running at 1900 is going to have over twice the number of transitions per time interval as the 800 MHz signal. Data is transmitted using these transitions, and on the manipulation of the waveform.

    For CDMA, the 850 MHz has a per channel bandwidth of 3.269 Mbps, and the 1900 MHz has a per channel bandwidth of 7.308 Mbps. 1900 divided 850 equals 7.308 divided by 3.269 equals 2.235. Check here to see for yourself how the different cell standards look and to backup my data (http://www.xgtechnology.com/xG-comp-app-pub.htm). This is why lower frequency carrier waveforms require better modulation schemes to equal the the same or better data throughput that a higher frequency carrier waveforms because the number of sine wave transitions dictates how bits are sent.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    Plus, the fact almost all PDA has no thumbpad will surely prove that thumpad is overrated as PDA accessory.
    Most PDA's were never meant to send e-mails either since they are just now getting wireless in them. A thumbboard is much more efficient way to input web page addresses, and other data quickly. I can add a contact to my phone, browse the web, and use almost any application without ever touching the stylus.

    I have heard so many things from people on this forum that were going to be the next Treo killer, but none have done so. When it happens I will believe it, until then they are opinions not backed up by history.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by lnichols
    Most PDA's were never meant to send e-mails either since they are just now getting wireless in them. A thumbboard is much more efficient way to input web page addresses, and other data quickly. I can add a contact to my phone, browse the web, and use almost any application without ever touching the stylus.

    I have heard so many things from people on this forum that were going to be the next Treo killer, but none have done so. When it happens I will believe it, until then they are opinions not backed up by history.
    oh please. Palm was so sure that any form of wireless has to be coupled with thumboard. (the T|C excuse) That Wifi equpped PDA will not sell without thumboard. But lo... nobody gives a damned about thumboard in PDA. T|C and h4300 were resounding flop.

    Thumboard is the only efficient input method for Palm, because that's the only viable option palm has. Palm is very weak on software inputs and the 2.5 inch screen is not enough for advance interface.

    Palm thumboard excuse is about as pathetic as that grafitti excuse. It's pure marketing gimmick. And it's about to meet hard market reality.

    as geewhizz fratboy look gets a massive backlash, people will want sleek minimalist look. Then Ace is done for.
  13. #53  
    I think that MPX-300 is a threat for the high-end, but the Motorola A630 would be a threat for the low-end, where people just want a good keyboard to type messages. The A630 would be "good enough" for basic email/IM/SMS/MMS, while being a really small phone, unlike the Treo600. I don't even mention the price.

    I love my Treo600, but I would consider the motorola A630 for the reasons mentionned above.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    well, I suppose if you use full desktop BT keyboard, it will be considerably larger. But than again, treo600 has very primitive handwriting recognition, no BT keyboard driver, auto complete, and no Voice dial.

    Plus, the fact almost all PDA has no thumbpad will surely prove that thumpad is overrated as PDA accessory.

    The reason treo fans scream 'thumboard' is because that's the only model Palmone offers. This time Microsoft will settle once and for all what form factor consumer prefers for smartphones. Just as nobody screams T|C has thumboard hence superior after h4350 experiment, after this market trial microsoft will know for sure what is myth and what is real market demand. From the look of it, thumbpad is total marketing gimmick.

    I will say, consumer will demand:
    1. Ultra small size
    2. advance wireless capability
    3. long battery
    4. large screen
    5. cheap
    6. standard OS and apps
    7. who gives a sh1te about integrated thumboard.
    Well, I thought you said that it had a thumbboard. Now it sounds like it would only work in you have BT keyboard? I missed something there.

    Handspring (part of PalmOne) had the non-thumbboard versions (Treo 180g) and no one bought them vs. the Treo 180. That's your fair test (everything else was controlled) on which is more popular and thumbboard won.

    How will Microsoft settle which hardware is better if they don't create any hardware? I guess they can't.

    RIM has a 10 billion business largely on the success of thumbboard. That's fairly significant (and don't counter that Microsoft has built).

    If you look at your list the Treo 600 qualifies for all of it, especially considering the Treo 650 is coming out which will make it cheap. If you use my argument that people who want e-mail want thumbboards then I can't think of a pocketPC that device that qualifies.

    It seems like it's only PPC people that say "who needs thumbboards?" Then they point to some mock-up that doesn't exist or possibly only in Japan and say "There's your thumbboard, but it doesn't exist." PPC might have my business if they'd get a thumbboard in a device the size of the Treo, but they couldn't seem to manage that in a year.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    If you want to talk OS major flaw, PPC is not the one massively bleeding marketshare. It's the one growing and eating POS for lunch.
    eh hmm...
    http://www.palmsource.com/press/2004/051104_smart.html

    Ummm, ouch. Guess the people have spoken.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    minor improvement? lol
    try coming up with similar capability first before calling it minor. Palmone is full one year behind.

    XDAII didn't kill treo600, but it producse all lesson learned implemented in Mpx, h6300, magicians and P50.

    If you want to talk OS major flaw, PPC is not the one massively bleeding marketshare. It's the one growing and eating POS for lunch.
    eh hmm...
    How does this Magician model compare to 650, not 600? 600 is at EOL, so it is not a valid comparison.

    And the number of models available doesn't always mean a better product. GM has far more models than Porsche, but it is hard to argue that GM makes better cars.
  17. #57  
    I have been a Palm user for a long time...and I REALLY like the thumb board. It is my preffered method to enter stuff now (never touch the Stylus).

    But what would I know...I am just a customer.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    http://www.palmsource.com/press/2004/051104_smart.html

    Ummm, ouch. Guess the people have spoken.
    With PPC and Symbian smartphones popping up all over the place PalmOne need to pull their fingers out before they lose their momentum, otherwise before they know it they'll be left in the dust. Currently it's the Treo 600 versus everyone else - just the sheer number of PPC and symbian phones is going to make the Treo look outnumbered.

    Come on PalmOne - get the Treo 650 shipping NOW and get working on the next model.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by suskind
    oh please. Palm was so sure that any form of wireless has to be coupled with thumboard. (the T|C excuse) That Wifi equpped PDA will not sell without thumboard. But lo... nobody gives a damned about thumboard in PDA. T|C and h4300 were resounding flop.

    Thumboard is the only efficient input method for Palm, because that's the only viable option palm has. Palm is very weak on software inputs and the 2.5 inch screen is not enough for advance interface.

    Palm thumboard excuse is about as pathetic as that grafitti excuse. It's pure marketing gimmick. And it's about to meet hard market reality.

    as geewhizz fratboy look gets a massive backlash, people will want sleek minimalist look. Then Ace is done for.
    Palm does have PDA's that use grafitti, but the Treo line has, and probably always will have the thumboard. RIM is the same way. Companies using MS OS haven't sold the thumboard well because the OS wasn't designed to use a keyboard (maybe newest release does) and most of the early implementations sucked (Hitachi G1000 reviews stated the thumboard was a kluge and it was clear the PPC OS wasn't designed for it). Palm has optimized the Treo's software for both the thumboard and the 5 way nav. Rarely use my stylus.

    Since I doubt you have ever used a Treo 600, I doubt you are qualified to give opinions on how functional the input is. I hate T9, and stylus input. PPC has its place as a flashy, multimedia based OS and does web browsing and multimedia better. However, their phone implementations have not been that good and are not as stable as the Palm OS (then again stable OS platforms never were M$'s strong point). Palm is a purpose built PDA OS that plays my MP3's, OGG, and WAV files just fine, and I have never had to a reset on my phone after almost a year of usage. M$ couldn't even get data syncronized with Outlook as good as Palm for some time and they wrote the OS.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by bmacfarland
    http://www.palmsource.com/press/2004/051104_smart.html

    Ummm, ouch. Guess the people have spoken.
    NPD only tracks US retail store, not global marketshare. see the joke yet?
    Palmone sells about as much smartphone in a quarter as Nokia sell in half a day globally.
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