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  1. #61  
    Wombat,

    What about the Treo form factor and the built in keyboard???
    Either I'm misunderstanding the question, or you may have misunderstood my post. I own a Treo 600, and I have it because of the form factor and built-in keyboard.
  2. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #62  
    Originally posted by echaban
    What price $600 or my $350 for the upgrade? I'm not willing to shell out the extra $250 for extra memory I probably won't even use and a camera thats better but not stellar. Bluetooth is no biggie for me either.

    Explain again how I'm being ripped off?
    The euro O2 is priced at 399 euro. True enough US t-mo price hasn't been announced yet, and it's partly wishfull thinking to have it the same as euro price, but really... even the fact XDAII can be in the same price range is good enough sign treo price doesn't compete.

    treo can't even send fax or have answering machine for pete's sake, and they call that 'smart'phone?

    XDAII to treo 600 is what h2210 to m130. Treo600 won't even pass the giggle test against XDAII capabilities.
  3. #63  
    Originally posted by wombat2


    Either I'm misunderstanding the question, or you may have misunderstood my post. I own a Treo 600, and I have it because of the form factor and built-in keyboard.
    Wombat,

    Sorry for the confusion. I meant to add that the fact tha the Treo 600 has such and ideal size and keyboard were additional benefits.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  4. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #64  
    really Jake, Handspring could hae put a hood ornament on top of that phone and you would still say it's the most ideal phone in the world.
  5. #65  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    really Jake, Handspring could hae put a hood ornament on top of that phone and you would still say it's the most ideal phone in the world.
    Yours didn't come with a hood ornament? You must have revision B.
  6. #66  
    Yo Purple X,

    You know, I'll put a Mercedes emblem on the front and a Cadillac emblem on the back.

    I ain’t gonna fake…I keep it real which ya!!!

    You know what I tella ya??? Is all good!!!

    I ain't playing which ya. You know, keepinit real.

    Just like we always do bout this time.
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  7. #67  
    Maybe the question should read, "Would you rather have PPC than Palm OS if both had the same (Treo-esque) form factor?"

    To me, it depends on how you use the thing. Verizon let me try a demo Samsung i700 for a couple of days. I hated the form factor, but that's beside the point. It was a GREAT PDA, besting my old IPAQ 3650 at every step, and its screen was incredible. But, I found it to be a lousy phone. Switching back and forth between phone and PDA functions was far from intuitive, for example. It was very clearly a PDA with phone functions grafted on almost as an afterthought.

    Palm may be a little quirky in the way it does some things, but I am finding it rather easy to make the change from PPC. Those who are heavily into PPC might have a more difficult time of it, and probably should wait for the PPC phones to get a little smaller.
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #68  
    Originally posted by treonyc


    Yours didn't come with a hood ornament? You must have revision B.
    probably, but I sure don't see a big cancerous hump and antenna stick. What is this the 80's?

    nobody does antenna stick anymore.
  9. #69  
    without a keyboard, you can't type anything

    toting around a foldable/portable keyboard to attach to your pocketpc/smartphone is not very practical

    battery life : the brighter screens on the windows devices eat up juice like crazy

    rebel cause : do you really want to give your life up to microsoft again ? make a difference in the world, choose an alternative that works better
  10. #70  
    The better way to compare XDA 2 and Treo 600 are the unsubsidized price. The XDA 2 is likely US $850.00. The Treo 600 is US $600.00. That is not the same price range.

    Trying to compare subsidized prices is not going to get you anywhere right now becuase no publicly released information I've seen other then pure speculation is availible for the XDA 2. I could be wrong but I haven't seen it yet. Right now you can pick up a Treo 600 for Sprint for $230.00 if you know what to do and where to get web coupons and all that sort of thing. The real subsidized price of a phone will differ based on each persons ability to hunt down and get rebates and discounts.

    If as you claim the XDA 2 will be availible for $400.00 bucks when its released then I'll pick one up myself. I just don't see it happening. Its also likely going to be released in Europe with a multi-month delay for American release.

    Also dropping the MPx200 into the discussion is at the moment irrelevant. The only US carrier offering the MPx200 is AT&T. AT&T charges an ungodly sum of money to use their data services. You have to either be rich or you have to be charging your company for your web usage. MPx200 is also a data retrieval device since it has no legitimate text input method. Yah, yah, T9, yada, yada, blah, blah. There is no real way to input text.

    The comparison is more aptly made between the XDA 2 and Treo 600.

    The thumb board is an important part of the Treo 600 and there is no current PPC, PPC PE, or WM2k3SP device that offers a thumb board and has small size. The Treo 600 is phone sized whereas PPC PE devices are all large PDA size and WM2K3SP are phone sized but lack PDA features. The Treo 600 is the only current device that offers small size, real text input (either HWR or thumb board), integrated phone, and full PDA functionality.

    Right now the real innovation is in the Palm camp.

    If you're wanting to throw in the Symbian devices I can offer no real comparison. I've never used Symbian and I will likely never use Symbian. The devices are popular in Europe but the coalition that banded together to create it is falling apart and most of the Symbian partners are actively seeking other Smartphone OS providers as partners.
  11. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #71  
    Sorry, but treo 600 cannot even pretend to be in the same class of device as XDAII. I only need to run down XDA application list to prove my point.

    That's why you can only cite 'thumboard' as if that is killer PDA feature. It isn't. That is the reason there is no PDA worth mentioning come with thumboard. What's sad, Handspring doesn't even bother enhancing the thumboard with more advance predictive text input.

    If they want to talk innovation, how about GPS car direction via BT. I want to see how one can fit a legible map into treo 600 screen and memory, and let the machine interact with Car equipment via BT. mmm...

    Also there is still no reply yet how treo can receive Fax or simple built in answering machine. etc...

    Treo 600 doesn't push the edge. It's no much more than the original Prism with CDMA springboard. That is not innovation, that's putting old wine in new bottle, similar to Zire 21. Treo is not that much different than treo 300 in term of PDA capability.

    yeah, it's phone first all right. It's because it cannot compete as PDA, but relatively easy to pass as expensive phone, as long as people don't ask advance phone feature such as voice dial. $400 dollar phone? nice...

    hey at least it can do datebk 5.0. that got to worth a few buck right?

    --------------
    O2 Euro price.
    http://msmobiles.com/news.php/1513.html
  12. #72  
    Sorry, but treo 600 cannot even pretend to be in the same class of device as XDAII. I only need to run down XDA application list to prove my point.
    I would certainly hope that any device that costs almost 150% more would have more features.

    The Treo 600 certainly compares favorably with the XDA 2. The Palm OS has more applications written for it. Does that mean Palm OS is better?

    The fact is that both devices are PDA Phones. That means they must have PDA qaulities and be able to function as a phone.

    They both have these basic functions. So you have to look deeper. If you want a multi media device that has a large screen so you can watch TV shows while traveling then you want the XDA 2.

    If you want a device that allows you to rapidly and accurately input text and be productive while on the road then you need the Treo 600.

    When I'm talking about innovation I'm talking about form factor and input methods. When it comes to software you can pretty much do anything with Palm that you can do with PPC or any of its variants and vice versa (except for smartphone).

    The problem with most PPC PE devices is that they are much too big for portability. The problem with Smartphone is that its too constrained by lack of input methods. The whole point of a PDA is that it must be portable and usable. If you can't take it with you or if its too big that it will be left behind when you need it then its not useful. Who cares if you can store the entire second season of 24 if you can't have it with you when you want to watch it or the battery dies 15 minutes into the first episode.

    Palm devices are pushing the boundries on form factor (T3 anyone). Up until WM2K3 for PPC the hardware was strictly defined by MS. Even with WM2K3 most of the PPC devices look alike. There is no innovation other then to try to cram more crap into the same box. Look at what's being released by Dell, HP, and the other PPC makers. Then take at look at what's being released by PalmOne and Sony. There is no comparison. The Palm OS devices are pushing the envelope of usability and working to ensure that the device fits your life instead of trying to make your life fit the device.
  13. Ravi's Avatar
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    #73  
    I think that the problem here is not really a Palm Vs Microshaft thing. If we are talking about a XDA II vs Treo 600 thing, then apart from the presence of a keyboard, the XDA has won in every department. I have owned the original 64mb XDA and it's a nice device - it's not as intuative or as stable as the Treo but you get used to it just like we all got used to the Treo's keyboard. Add to this Voice dialling, Bluetooth etc. and there's no contest on paper.

    My worry as a Treo 600 owner is that I may have bought into a device that is an evolutionary blind end with built in obsolescence. I think it's given that this phone /pda is probably going to be HS's first and last 160 X 160 pixel device, and it if is, surely developers are (in the long term) not likely to waste their time catering for compatibility with that 'wierd little thing with a tiny screen' as one developer I spoke to called it.

    Just look at Silverscreen and equivalent launchers. They looked fantastic on my T2 but they look wierd on the T600 because there is simply not enough screen. There's nothing wrong with that in itself but how likely are developers to change all their designs for that 'wierd little thing with a tiny screen'.

    As one UK developer put it, "Our software expects OS 5 devices to have hi-res screens. Here we have something which is one step forward in one respect and two steps back in another. Are we going to re-write all our software? hell no! - in six to eight months, there will be a device with a 320 X320 screen and right now we're having a ball writing for the T3 etc."

    I have another 6 days to decide if I want to stick with the Treo or send it back. My heart says 'keep it, you know it's good' buy my head says 'send it back and get the XDA II - it may be Microshaft but you know it will stay current for longer'

    I'll be damned if I know what to do.
  14. #74  
    Originally posted by ravi
    I think that the problem here is not really a Palm Vs Microshaft thing. If we are talking about a XDA II vs Treo 600 thing, then apart from the presence of a keyboard, the XDA has won in every department. I have owned the original 64mb XDA and it's a nice device - it's not as intuative or as stable as the Treo but you get used to it just like we all got used to the Treo's keyboard. Add to this Voice dialling, Bluetooth etc. and there's no contest on paper.

    My worry as a Treo 600 owner is that I may have bought into a device that is an evolutionary blind end with built in obsolescence. I think it's given that this phone /pda is probably going to be HS's first and last 160 X 160 pixel device, and it if is, surely developers are (in the long term) not likely to waste their time catering for compatibility with that 'wierd little thing with a tiny screen' as one developer I spoke to called it.

    Just look at Silverscreen and equivalent launchers. They looked fantastic on my T2 but they look wierd on the T600 because there is simply not enough screen. There's nothing wrong with that in itself but how likely are developers to change all their designs for that 'wierd little thing with a tiny screen'.

    As one UK developer put it, "Our software expects OS 5 devices to have hi-res screens. Here we have something which is one step forward in one respect and two steps back in another. Are we going to re-write all our software? hell no! - in six to eight months, there will be a device with a 320 X320 screen and right now we're having a ball writing for the T3 etc."

    I have another 6 days to decide if I want to stick with the Treo or send it back. My heart says 'keep it, you know it's good' buy my head says 'send it back and get the XDA II - it may be Microshaft but you know it will stay current for longer'

    I'll be damned if I know what to do.
    ravi :

    Keep the Treo 600 and when the Treo 900 comes out with 480x320 and bluetooth and Wi-fi sell the Treo 600 on ebay for 70% of what it cost you and the Treo 900 will completely rip the XDA.

    Also, I have tried holding a XDA as a phone. First of all it is way too big and very uncomfortable to grip in your hand for any extended amount of time.

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  15. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #75  
    treo 900? when is it gonna be? 2029? lol Yeah it'll even come with that eye movement cursor tracking thing.

    I tell you what, there is not going to be a treo 900. Treo 700 is probably going to be the very last of treo line before Palmone finally give up and ditch wireless effort all together.

    There is no money for small palyer in phone market.
  16. #76  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    treo 900? when is it gonna be? 2029? lol Yeah it'll even come with that eye movement cursor tracking thing.

    I tell you what, there is not going to be a treo 900. Treo 700 is probably going to be the very last of treo line before Palmone finally give up and ditch wireless effort all together.

    There is no money for small palyer in phone market.
    Pulease! I think the only thing we know for sure is that purple-noodle will still be here flaming these boards when the next Treo comes out! But, who knows, maybe he might get a girl friend or life or anything by then...er...probably not though...
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  17. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #77  
    who was it that run a bet if treo 600 can still sustain sale by mid 2004? That would be something to watch.

    treo600 is already flopping all over the place in Asia and europe. (lousy screen, bad price) US situation is a lot better since it's heavily subsidized.
  18. #78  
    Originally posted by purpleX
    who was it that run a bet if treo 600 can still sustain sale by mid 2004? That would be something to watch.

    treo600 is already flopping all over the place in Asia and europe. (lousy screen, bad price) US situation is a lot better since it's heavily subsidized.
    See what I mean?!
    _________________
    aka Gfunkmagic

    Current device: Palm Pre
    Device graveyard: Palm Vx, Cassiopeia E100, LG Phenom HPC, Palm M515, Treo 300, Treo 600, Treo 650, Treo 700p, Axim X50v, Treo 800w



    Please don't PM me about my avatar. For more info go here.

    Restore your Pre to factory settings using webos doctor and follow these instructions
  19. #79  
    What happens in the future is anybody's guess. For now, if you want to input any serious amount of text (e-mail, IM, SMS), the Treo 600 is by far the best choice. In the future, its heirs may or may not be a good choice, who can say? Buy the T600 now if it suits your needs, and when it's time to replace it, buy whatever you like best at that time.

    I have never understood company loyalty. Look out for yourself. Smart companies will tend to get repeat business because they will look out for you, as well. I think it's likely that Palm/Handspring's next model will be worth buying, and if it is, I'll buy it, but if it's not, I'll switch.
  20. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #80  
    aweee, would you be my girlfriend g'funk?


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