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  1. #22  
    Come on, Mobile OS X is obviously the best...um...non-existant OS.
  2. #23  
    Originally posted by Mr Man
    Come on, Mobile OS X is obviously the best...um...non-existant OS.
    I think the Linux PDA has them all beat. Linux crushes MS any day of the week cycle for cycle on any platform.

    MS has not made a stable, secure, reliable OS yet. Any IT person worth a damn knows this.
  3. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #24  
    As oppose to Palms stable, secure and reliable OS?




    Well apparently LG doesn't think much of those and pick something else.

    http://www.lge.com/about/news/news_r...ews=1&seq=3225
  4. #25  
    Being a long time Palm user and someone new to the Treo world, I am shocked that people are actually thinking that Pocket PC compares to Palm. Palm out performs M$ in everyway. I have tried the new Ipaqs and I am always amazed at how slow they are. By the time you add a couple extra programs your 64 Meg is gone. They use way more space for files. They need much more processor power and speed to perform slower than Palms. There are about 100 times more Palm OS programs available than pocket PC programs. Active Sync sucks bad. You always end up with dupes if you sync to more than one computer.
    Yes the Treo has some limits but it has nothing to with the Palm OS. The Treo is a great all around package. It is a jack of all trades and master of none. I love its size and the way it feels in my hand. Sure 360 x 360 will be better. It plays MP3s louder and better than my Tungsten. I was always missing calls on my T68i while I was listening to Mp3s on the Tungsten. Now I can hear my phone ring through my earphones. I am really shocked that I even like the keyboard. I can do Graffiti almost faster than the Palm OS can keep up and I already almost as fast on the keyboard. I really like not having to take my stylus out.

    Here is some reading for those who doubt that the Palm OS is superior.

    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=5379
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=3626
    http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=3676
    Pilot 1000 -> Pilot 5000 ->Palm Pilot Professional -> HP 620LX -> TRG Pro -> Palm V -> Palm Vx -> Palm M505 -> Palm i705 -> Palm Tungsten|T -> Samsung i500 -> Treo 600->Treo 650 -> Treo 600-> Treo 700p ->Centro ->Treo 800w + Redfly C8n -> Palm Pre -> HP Touchpad
    R.I.P Palm 1996-2011
  5. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #26  
    >> Here is some reading for those who doubt that the Palm OS is superior.

    I think those article would have the exact opposite effect.
    It shows how far behind Palm is compared to PPC. Consider the date and content of the writing and compare it to what actualy has happened.

    for eg. "...It already has 87% of retail sales in the United States and sells about twice as many handhelds in the Enterprise market as Microsoft does."

    do you know what the most recent market share number is?
  6. #27  
    Actually in my post I mention Linux which is more secure, stable and reliable than any comparable MS OS. MS products have been shown time and time again to be severly lacking in security. The original Windows NT shipped with over 9000 security wholes. How many Windows 2000 patches have shipped for known wholes? Now PPC may be more secure, but given the companies notorious track record for security, their is probably quite a few whole in it too.
  7. #28  
    I'm pretty hardware agnostic. I have used or owned PPC/WM2k3, Palm, and Apple Newtons since the original Apple Newton came out. I love HHC and with the new devices that are coming out I hope to ditch my laptop for most of my trips.

    I like the XDA and if it wasn't so expensive I would buy an XDA2 the moment they're for sale. I'm almost ready to pick up a MPx200 to fiddle around with.

    My biggest complaint about the MS side of the portable world is that they've fractured the market by producing 3 competing platforms. The Tablet PC, WM2k3 for PPC and Phone Edition PPC, WM2k3 for SP. And contrary to an earlier poster the MS OS for handheld's has been out for many years. Heck the Smartphone platform was introduced 3 years ago and that was after the PPC or WinCE was out for years.

    Tablet PC is an extention of XP but its marketed as a pen and paper replacement. Some of the upcoming models will verge on the size of some of the larger PPC devices.

    PPC and PPC PE are handhelds first and the PE has the added joy of having voice cababilities. These are the devices most americans are used to talking about when they talk about PPCs or MS phones.

    WM Smartphone's are pretty new to the US market. You could get them from Europe and Asia but the MPx200 is the first introduced to the U.S. market.

    Now the PPC/PPCPE and SP are different platforms. Programs written for one will not work on the other. SP has numerous (at least in my opinion) issues. Its only input method is T9. A hiddeously inferior text entry method which makes SM a "reader" type device and not one you are productive on. It does not have a touch screen so you are limited to whatever arrow buttons or jog dial the phone maker provides regardless of how inadequte it might or might not be.

    There have also been numerous problems, at least in Europe, with carriers locking phones so that users cannot add new software. I think it caused so many problems that most if not all European carriers have abandoned this idea but I haven't followed the issue closely. I do know it stifled early software development.

    IMHO the PPC PE is a much more interesting device. With WM2K3 MS opened up the hardware specs so that more innovation could take place. Pretty much all PPC devices had started to look exactly the same as any other. the only difference being how big the battery was and the price tag. PPC PE phones are now starting to show up with thumb boards, an essential if you want to be productive on the road and the screen size limitation has been raised so we might start seeing devices with a reasonable size and a thumb board.

    MS has also done some things which I find disturbing for the near term viability of the PPC/PPC PE and SP platforms. They're taking on anyone as a partner that can pony up the cash. For as small a niche market as this is at the moment it can lead to too many devices for any one of them to be viable. This can lead to a whole bunch of people bailing from producing the devices and keep others out of the field entirely because they see too much competition.

    To be more to the point from the devices I've seen produced so far I think Palm OS has more innovation and better integration between organizer/HHC and the phone. Right now PalmOS has the only real contender in size and feature set for a converged phone. I would like to see a few more features but the claimed 6 hours of talk time on the GSM device and the actual real life 6+ Hours many reviewers have claimed are more important to me then a few pixels. I would also have loved to have bluetooth and a better camera but for low cost SPs only the MPx200 is cheaper unless you're getting an end of lifecycle or soon to be replaced device.
  8. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #29  
    >>> Right now PalmOS has the only real contender in size and feature set for a converged phone

    If that is the real contender, obviously convergance as you like to define it is dead. Treo is on the bottom of market share among the convergence device. Even the SPV (MS smartphones) has bigger worldwide marketshare than treo.

    treo as its current from is not going to make it. It's outdated hardware wise already.
  9. rbiowa's Avatar
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    #30  
    I spend more time than I should reading through forums such as this. It always seems to be a case of "whose is bigger, better, ... One does this, the other has that. Why are there so many different cars, different colors, etc. Because everybody has a personal preference. No two of us will agree on every feature (or lack there of) on every product. Makes for healthy discussion but not much more than that. I've owned both Pocket PC's and Palm. I've owned a Treo 300 and most recently a Samsung i700. So if you want to restrict it to just the OS, they're both OK. Neither is across the board superior and they both have faults. One has more built in software (Excel & Word), the other doesn't freeze up and crash as much. If you want to compare smartphones (which I believe this forum is about) here is my take. I'm switching to a Treo 600 (it's on order) because 1. it's smaller 2. it has a keyboard. That's it folks. If PPC's with built in phone (MS Smartphone doesn't apply) were smaller and had a keyboard, it would be a tough decision.
  10. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #31  
    Here is my rough prediction what 'convergence' device will be the most popular. Sold the most worldwide between now til mid next year?


    1. SE p900
    2. SPV2
    3. mpx200
    4. treo600
    5. XDAII
  11. #32  
    For the most part I agree with purpleX's predictions on phone popularity. All my friends overseas, and even the ones here are raving about the SE p900.

    I would just like to point out that most popular doesn't necessarily equal best. It might in a world where we could buy whatever phone we wanted, and have connectivity with that phone irregardless of provider. Too bad real life doesn't work like that.

    I have a t600, and I'm finding it does almost everything I need out of a pda/phone combo at this time. I don't need to play movies, or remote terminal to my home pc, or play mame on my pda. Thats what my laptop is for. Currently, the Treo 600, and subsequently palmOS does what I want with its simplicity.

    At the same time, I'd like to see a PPC phone something like the Treo 600 (small, keyboard, etc, etc). I would love to see what something from MSFT half the size of a hitachi g1000 could do, and I certainly wouldn't pass up such an offering just because it ran PPC instead of Palmos. (As a techie, I can say that sometimes the evangelism gets out of hand).

    Just be glad we have choices. Competition between PPC and Palm OS devices means better products for us no matter which 'camp' you 'choose'.
    Deacon
    Computer Programmer/Law Student
    T700p <-- 600
  12. #33  
    Originally posted by lenman
    As I read these treads and the buyer’s remorse sets in I sit back as say to myself.
    Hey I am a simple user all I want is to be able to use a phone, take notes, access my email lookup people in an address book, browse the web, play a mind dulling game on trips and oh maybe take a picture if I see a UFO.
    Does the T600 do this … yes
    But my head pounds once I sit next to a person with a PPC device. Why? Well because
    Their machine’s Screen looks like quality; Beautiful TFT renderings, it is fast, it is MS so you don’t have to get acquainted to the Palm OS. So why am I hooked into Palm OS? Why am I hooked into Treos? I have Read that HS is being sold so Why?
    Because I am loyal to Palm and HS…Why.
    Well my experience with the T300 was good until It fell apart….Hummm

    Can you remind me of the benefits of the Palm OS and why I shouldn’t have jumped over
    To PPC.

    Signed Remorseful but happy.. so will kinda
    WTF???? Snap out of it!!! There is NO comparison between PPC and Treo. NONE.

    PPC is and has always been a bad joke.

    I’ll give you a simple example. Think about this: What is the point of being able to assign a date to a to-do item if it can’t be displayed in your calendar? All Handspring devices including the Treo 600 have the ability to display dated to-do items in the Calendar. Microsoft PPC still does not. It is ironic that the PPC Today screen will be half empty and say “Tasks: 4”, when there is plenty of blank space where you could just display them. This is totally retarded!?!?!

    Here is another example: Try looking up a number to call on the PPC while you are walking down the street or driving in a car. You have to pull out the stylus with one hand, the PPC in the other while you somehow hold the phone with your third hand and then dial? Then if you need to update a phone number or address on the PPC while you are on the phone—fogetabboudit!!!

    The Treo 600 is a concrete example of less being more.

    The reason Palm bought HS for $160 million was for the Treo. Once the Treo gets 320x320 or 320x480 along with Bluetooth and Wi-fi it will be a true laptop replacement. If you want to see what a 480x320 Treo would look like you can check out the preview for Part 4 of my upcoming article:

    http://www.jakeehrlich.com/Review/Bu...oDashboard.htm

    Jake
    There is a great difference between knowing and understanding. You can know a lot about something without understanding it. —Charles Kettering
    -------------------------------------------------
    Treo 600: Love at First Sight by Jake Ehrlich

    Thoughts on the Future of Handheld Computing: A 5 Part Series by Jake Ehrlich
  13. #34  
    For what it's worth, I don't think the Treo's marketting overseas is anything like those of the phone's you listed. It's well known that Microsoft didn't have the best OS, but it didn't stop them from winning. So let's end the discussion of sales right away. It's dependent on more than just the merit of the hardware or the OS.
  14. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #35  
    Originally posted by JakeE
    WTF???? Snap out of it!!! There is NO comparison between PPC and Treo. NONE.

    PPC is and has always been a bad joke.
    okay jake, whatever you say...
    did you watch too many batman movie again?

    I’ll give you a simple example. Think about this: What is the point of being able to assign a date to a to-do item if it can’t be displayed in your calendar? All Handspring devices including the Treo 600 have the ability to display dated to-do items in the Calendar. Microsoft PPC still does not. It is ironic that the PPC Today screen will be half empty and say “Tasks: 4”, when there is plenty of blank space where you could just display them. This is totally retarded!?!?!
    lesse,
    Freebie download for today screen enhancement.
    (you know how people b1tch and whine about clutter and wanna have it simple and all)
    http://www001.upp.so-net.ne.jp/kohgo/index_en.html
    If ya want more advance 'can do it all, integrated to the kilt' agenda.
    http://www.pocketinformant.com/gall.php

    You are whining about how sad PPC's today screen is, does treo even HAVE a today screen? (there goes extra steps to read all your essential infos. now THAT's clumsy, or is that retarded evolutionary steps)

    Here is another example: Try looking up a number to call on the PPC while you are walking down the street or driving in a car. You have to pull out the stylus with one hand, the PPC in the other while you somehow hold the phone with your third hand and then dial? Then if you need to update a phone number or address on the PPC while you are on the phone—fogetabboudit!!!
    It's called finger, try it. The PPC won't explode when using your finger to prod the screen.

    but if you are talking about PPC phone edition, just use voice dial. (see you don't even have to touch the screen or any button. amazing eh?)

    wanna update entries? you can use the entire screen to write with your finger, or if that's not your cup of tea, use virtual keyboard of some type. Or just attach memo in audio/graphic or whatever in the address entries notes. All in one hand there.(can't do that on that gee whiss treo can you?)

    pecking and poking chicklet keyboards? fuggedaboutit

    The Treo 600 is a concrete example of less being more.
    Treo is a concrete example of something costing more to get less. what kind of phone has no voice dial and audio recorder anyway? gaw.. talking about the retro.

    It's called advert fad. It won't last. That fluffy talk about simplicity to hide lack of feature won't fly for long anymore. p900 and smartphones is going to eat t600 alive at half the price.
  15. #36  
    Originally posted by PattiB
    Huge advantage: It's not Microsoft. You don't overpay for crappy software, and you aren't giving money to the evil empire.

    I like the PalmOS because it's simple and elegant, and because it isn't married to a particular desktop computing platform.
    AMEN! Now pass the beer.

    I'm a MacLoyal as well...and honestly, getting used to PPC coding is annoying at best...like trying to use a Dell (DUDE! You got a Dell commercial and smoked some pot!)

    That said...if and when Mr. Jobs decides to give the go-ahead on a OS X platform smartphone or PDA (at this point, it better be both), I would more than jump at the chance of owning one.
    <CENTER>
    <strong>
    <span style="color: blue;">Where's the "Make Coffee" button again?</span>
    </strong>
  16. #37  
    Originally posted by purpleX


    It won't last. That fluffy talk about simplicity to hide lack of feature won't fly for long anymore. p900 and smartphones is going to eat t600 alive at half the price.
    I'm not being facetious, but half the price? originally $599, $399 for upgraders, $249 for 2 yr contract with Sprint. If the p900 can be sold for $124.50 with Sprint, then even I would try it. Can you confirm this? Do you know for a fact how much it will eventually sell for when it ever comes out?
    Palm III > Palm V > Palm Vx > (Sprint) Kyo 6035 > Handspring Treo 300
    > Handspring Treo 600 Oct.'03 > Palm Treo 700P May'06 > Treo 755P Aug.'07 > Pre(-) June'09 + TouchPad July'11 LONG LIVE webOS!!!
  17. #38  
    But some of you are forgetting about the size factor. After testing a friends I-700 out for a few days, it was just too big for my taste. Same deal with the G1000.

    As I posted earlier, the Treo 600 had the best combination in form factor and convenience. And, its available TODAY. Not next year or the other mythical cool GSM phones overseas that most won't even make it to US shores.

    I don't need to watch videos on the Treo600 so my eyes won't be hurting as much, thanks for caring PurpleX. I guess the smiley faces and jest about Dope Wars also flew by as well. If you know a regular organizer that can surf the web, act as a phone and has great form factor, please update me. I like the pics of those phones you posted, but I need something tomorrow. I already waited almost a year for this years batch of convergence phones and unfortunately, I can't wait any longer due to business constraints. Since you're so smart, please enlighten me and what I can get tomorrow instead of the Treo 600.

    If you like carrying a brick on your belt or waiting until LATE next year for the next generation in small PPC's, go right ahead. In the meantime, I'll be enjoying my Treo 600..TODAY....at least until the next big thing comes along

    Dizzy

    BTW, my Treo 600 only cost me $299 w/ all the rebates included.
  18. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #39  
    [quote chemengr]

    - p900 price is not announced yet. but most probably SE will be throwing money at it to compete against Nokia. (p800 is $200 contract, $500+ unlock) I wouldn't be surprise if SE will start pushing the p900 at $4-500 and quickly reducing it to sub $300 by new year.
    - mpx200 is $150 at amazon right now (unlock $500+)
    - XDAII is $399 with a year contract (unlock $850)

    So the big boys are all throwing big rebate, skewing the game against treo600 dramatically. It's $400 now ($600+ unlock) Handspring won't be able to burn money just to buy marketshare.
  19. purpleX
    purpleX's Avatar
    #40  
    Originally posted by Dizzy

    If you know a regular organizer that can surf the web, act as a phone and has great form factor, please update me. I like the pics of those phones you posted, but I need something tomorrow. I already waited almost a year for this years batch of convergence phones and unfortunately, I can't wait any longer due to business constraints. Since you're so smart, please enlighten me and what I can get tomorrow instead of the Treo 600.
    Not that I think ATT will cover your area. But here is a GSM phone to prove my point. PIM/browse the net better than treo/basic productivity apps. It's a smaller phone than treo. 2 days delivery. (of course now you are going to say, where is the keyboard. lol )

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...bosnation0e-20
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