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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    IOS is only used on the iPad because Apple doesn't licence it out to other manufacturers. Android is licenced out simply because Google makes their revenue through advertisements and services (not hardware) and want their OS on as many devices as possible. The US market is saturated right now. Guess which markets are wide open and provide the opportunity for growth? Emerging markets like China and India. So that cheap Chinese crap adds to Android's market share and provides Google with a new source of revenue in an emerging market.

    Quick history lesson for you, one of the most powerful companies in the world was Standard Oil. The company made its money and obtained its power by pricing its competitors out of the market. They didn't charge a premium for their oil. They charge less than their competitors did. They sold more oil and their competitors went bankrupt. It makes little since for a company to price their products so high that they only grab a small amount of market share. Apple has trapped themselves into a situation where they have to protect the brand. That is a losing situation. Ask Ferrari, Mercedes, and BMW. Each are smaller companies with less revenue than Toyota, GM, and Ford. Each sell low volumes of high end cars to the small market that can afford them. Each have attempted to break into the low end, higher volume market but can't seem to do so because it will damage their brand.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    You need to reread the whole Standard Oil thing because that is not how it went down. It was not all about them under selling everyone else.

    You told me earlier not to bring car analogies into this.

    Mercedes is bringing out a new car this year that is priced under $30,000. It's called the CLA. BMW also sells the 1 series starting under $30,000. The 1-series in not damaging BMW's brand. Furthermore, no one that is buying a Ferrari is going to cross shop the brands you listed.

    Looks to me like BMW and Mercedes does sell cheaper cars. And I went on Autoblog.com and BMW sales were 3rd best in sales increases.

    August 2013: Sizzling Summer Edition - Autoblog

    So, if they were fighting so hard to get customers, their sales wouldn't be increasing!

    There will always be a market for expensive luxury vehicles as long as there will be cars.

    Good job on posting more inaccurate info!
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Apple has trapped themselves into a situation where they have to protect the brand. That is a losing situation.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    As for Apple's Mac sales. They had increased for 26 consecutive quarters. That's 6.5 years of steady increases in Mac sales where they outgrew the PC markets for all those years until all computers sales started dropping this year. And that info is readily available to find.

    iPhone sales are obviously still increasing.

    How again can they be trapped?
  3. #43  
    Standard Oil became so huge mostly because they totally controlled refining, distribution, marketing, and other aspects of the oil industry. And receiving huge discounts from the railroads to transport the oil. To where they controlled 90% of the country's oil production.

    That's what got them broken up, not because they under sold everyone else.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by nusome4 View Post
    That would be you going around in circles posting inaccurate info which you have been called out on more than a few times.

    I don't tend to believe data when it favors Apple. I just gave you an example of a data point for Android and a data point for iOS and showed you they don't add up. You were the one thinking that everyone is spoofing a browser agent. Which is a bunch of made up crap by YOU.

    There is too much fragmentation in Android for it to be dominant. There is even talk of Google washing it's hands of Android and moving to Chrome. If it's so dominant, why would they be thinking of doing that?

    You want to know why there is talk of that? Because Google is doing all the work and getting very little back in return. Amazon has forked Android and uses it for their devices and Google is mostly cut out of it. In Samsung's last event, they worked very hard to leave Google out of their event.

    It is said that Google makes more money from iOS users than from Android users. And you think Android is dominant?

    Dominance is the ecosystem that revolves around an OS and iOS beats Android hands down. There is no comparison.

    All you're focusing on is raw numbers and that's not how the world operates. Lot's of companies in other industries have been around for decades in their niche and prosper and don't care that someone cheaper sells more stuff than them.

    That will be Apple. Extremely successful in their niche taking the most profits while everyone else fights over scraps. And iOS will continue to get the best apps, the huge accessory market, the dock connector installed everywhere, awesome in car factory audio hookups, etc. That's because iOS users typically spend more money vs Android users.

    And furthermore, I don't put down Android users. Or, anyone else for that matter. I just called you out on stuff that is simply not true or taken out of context. Or, some random nugget of meaningless data. And you do that A LOT.
    So now dominance is an ecosystem that revolves around an OS and not shear OS market share? Give me a break! Google is moving away from Android towards Chrome so lets all ignore the fact that Android has 80% of the market? Google has been pimping Chrome for the longest time now. That still hasn't stopped them from releasing version after version of Android or commissioning Nexus devices. IOS user spend more money than Android users (very true) so ignore the numbers? You have introduced so many different angles into this subject that you miss the point that Android dominates in market share. They dominate. The numbers back it up. Admit that. Those numbers did not come from me and nothing that you introduced disputes them. What you are doing is poo pooing the numbers but failing to acknowledge them.

    Dude, I have no dog in this fight. I love webOS. It is my OS of choice in the mobile world and I would love to see it dominate. However, I hate most iOS users simply because of the crap you have been spewing throughout this thread. Not one time have you provided data that disputes Android's market share. You try to negate it by bringing up other things that don't change the numbers, period. So iOS users spend more time on the web. That doesn't mean that there aren't more Android users. So iOS users spend more money on apps. That doesn't mean that there aren't more Android users. So Apple is competing with a limited amount of products. That's their choice. No one is holding a gun to their heads and saying don't produce more iPhones or iPads in different sizes and different price points. That decision is theirs. Still doesn't mean there aren't more Android users. Android is on more devices and at different price points and there are more Android devices sold which gives it more market share, which backs up the numbers.

    Go back through this forum when you stop seeing red because someone insulted your precious Apple by pointing out the obvious and look at my posts about Android. Especially HP's decision to go with it over webOS. You will see that I cut no slack on that.

    You have solidified my hate for iOS users with your useless ranting (maybe trying to justify the money you spent?). It hasn't changed the market share argument at all and market share means a lot in the OS world. It turns the tide. Apple was dominant in the 80s and lost that dominance and stock value to a bunch of Intel clones running a buggy, virus ridden OS (Windows) that captured 90% percent of market share almost overnight. If they don't figure out something soon, history will repeat itself and they don't have the genius of Steve Jobs to back them up next time. Their precious ecosystem can't support itself on a limited number of devices. They need more people to buy their hardware, not less.

    Add another reason why iOS users should not be doing surveys: can't seem to accept reality for what it is.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by nusome4 View Post
    Standard Oil became so huge mostly because they totally controlled refining, distribution, marketing, and other aspects of the oil industry. And receiving huge discounts from the railroads to transport the oil. To where they controlled 90% of the country's oil production.

    That's what got them broken up, not because they under sold everyone else.
    Everything you stated is true AND they under sold everyone else. They took over large parts of the market, then used unfair pricing to eliminate any competition (new or old). You can control large parts of the market. You just can't use that control to stop competition.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    So now dominance is an ecosystem that revolves around an OS and not shear OS market share? Give me a break! Google is moving away from Android towards Chrome so lets all ignore the fact that Android has 80% of the market? Google has been pimping Chrome for the longest time now. That still hasn't stopped them from releasing version after version of Android or commissioning Nexus devices. IOS user spend more money than Android users (very true) so ignore the numbers? You have introduced so many different angles into this subject that you miss the point that Android dominates in market share. They dominate. The numbers back it up. Admit that. Those numbers did not come from me and nothing that you introduced disputes them. What you are doing is poo pooing the numbers but failing to acknowledge them.

    Dude, I have no dog in this fight. I love webOS. It is my OS of choice in the mobile world and I would love to see it dominate. However, I hate most iOS users simply because of the crap you have been spewing throughout this thread. Not one time have you provided data that disputes Android's market share. You try to negate it by bringing up other things that don't change the numbers, period. So iOS users spend more time on the web. That doesn't mean that there aren't more Android users. So iOS users spend more money on apps. That doesn't mean that there aren't more Android users. So Apple is competing with a limited amount of products. That's their choice. No one is holding a gun to their heads and saying don't produce more iPhones or iPads in different sizes and different price points. That decision is theirs. Still doesn't mean there aren't more Android users. Android is on more devices and at different price points and there are more Android devices sold which gives it more market share, which backs up the numbers.

    Go back through this forum when you stop seeing red because someone insulted your precious Apple by pointing out the obvious and look at my posts about Android. Especially HP's decision to go with it over webOS. You will see that I cut no slack on that.

    You have solidified my hate for iOS users with your useless ranting (maybe trying to justify the money you spent?). It hasn't changed the market share argument at all and market share means a lot in the OS world. It turns the tide. Apple was dominant in the 80s and lost that dominance and stock value to a bunch of Intel clones running a buggy, virus ridden OS (Windows) that captured 90% percent of market share almost overnight. If they don't figure out something soon, history will repeat itself and they don't have the genius of Steve Jobs to back them up next time. Their precious ecosystem can't support itself on a limited number of devices. They need more people to buy their hardware, not less.

    Add another reason why iOS users should not be doing surveys: can't seem to accept reality for what it is.

    The numbers are just a bunch of guesses and assumptions and the media can report whatever they want to get you to click on a link for their advertising stats.

    Android can not dominate with their huge fragmentation problem. That's something the media doesn't report on.

    I fail to acknowledge made up info. Nothing stops all the Android manufacturers from reporting their actual sales so we can get an accurate portrayal.

    Do you not get it? I can't dispute the Android results because the manufacturers don't provide the info. Have I not been saying that??????

    Apple choosing to not compete in a cheap market doesn't mean they are losing. But, you keep saying Android is winning because they are larger and that doesn't mean anything unless you can explain the benefits of them being larger and I see none compared to iOS.

    You said earlier that we live in the US where all phones are subsidized, so how could I spend more money? Most phones that are high end cost $199 on contract, including iPhone.

    iOS is still getting all the cool apps and the awesome ecosystem. I don't see one hint of the tide turning. Care to provide some info on where it is turning?

    Dude, stop living in the past.

    And reality is actual facts, not assumptions that are made up for you to click on a link. And that about sums it up. Your info on Android comes from some blogger or news article that is designed to get you to click on it for advertising purposes. And you call yourself smarter than the average iOS user. SMH.
  7. #47  
    So, you keep touting the made up 80% Android market share.

    I would like you or anyone to tell me what an iOS user is missing out on that the Android 80% market share user apparently has.

    Please keep it to current things because no one can predict the future.
  8. #48  
    Feel free to exchange email addresses and continue your argument over market share and sales numbers there. This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic: iOS7 rated top user experience by users. Would have been curious to see WebOS there

    Thanks.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
    RumoredNow likes this.
  9. #49  
    The user experience on my wife's first generation iPod Touch (2007) is superior to WebOS 1.4.5 in every way, in my opinion.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by nusome4 View Post
    You need to reread the whole Standard Oil thing because that is not how it went down. It was not all about them under selling everyone else.

    You told me earlier not to bring car analogies into this.

    Mercedes is bringing out a new car this year that is priced under $30,000. It's called the CLA. BMW also sells the 1 series starting under $30,000. The 1-series in not damaging BMW's brand. Furthermore, no one that is buying a Ferrari is going to cross shop the brands you listed.

    Looks to me like BMW and Mercedes does sell cheaper cars. And I went on Autoblog.com and BMW sales were 3rd best in sales increases.

    August 2013: Sizzling Summer Edition - Autoblog

    So, if they were fighting so hard to get customers, their sales wouldn't be increasing!

    There will always be a market for expensive luxury vehicles as long as there will be cars.

    Good job on posting more inaccurate info!
    Exerpt from Wikipedia: In 1909, the US Department of Justice sued Standard under federal anti-trust law, the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890, for sustaining a monopoly and restraining interstate commerce by:[32]


    "Rebates, preferences, and other discriminatory practices in favor of the combination by railroad companies; restraint and monopolization by control of pipe lines, and unfair practices against competing pipe lines; contracts with competitors in restraint of trade; unfair methods of competition, such as local price cutting at the points where necessary to suppress competition; [and] espionage of the business of competitors, the operation of bogus independent companies, and payment of rebates on oil, with the like intent."

    I stayed awake in history class.

    Exerpt from New York Times story on Daimler Benz:

    Daimler-Benz Takes Over Chrysler as VW Acquires Rolls-Royce - Fast Lane for German Firms - NYTimes.com

    Daimler, which has been humbled in its recent efforts to launch subcompact models, effectively adds a full range of mass-market cars and minivans to its portfolio

    Daimler Benz was having trouble selling subcompats on the market. They are a luxury car and truck company.

    I'll have to dig deeper for Ferrari and BMW. The Mini line has helped BMW in the small car market but they are starting to price them a little to close to 3 series money.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Feel free to exchange email addresses and continue your argument over market share and sales numbers there. This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic: iOS7 rated top user experience by users. Would have been curious to see WebOS there

    Thanks.
    Roger.

    The OP is hard to stay in line with. We are comparing a new OS with support from a larger user base versus an OS that hasn't been updated in almost two years with a very small, but dedicated user base. If you ask a ton of iOS users which OS has the best user experience of course iOS will top their list. Same with Android users and same with us here. My complaint is that IOS 7 has not been out long enough to get an accurate assessment from its users. Right now it has that new car smell, once that wears off and users have more time to assess it, then it can be accurately rated. I believe the article is flawed and is just fluff.
    Last edited by k4ever; 09/30/2013 at 12:54 AM.
  12. #52  
    I have a Pre3 but got a Nokia Lumia 1020 with Windows 8 , in order to do some development....

    Its a lovely piece of hardware, but I have to say i miss webos. Switching between tasks on W8 is just not consistent or logical..... webos just seems natural

    I was planning on getting rid of the Pre3, but now I think I will hold on to it....
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by sledge007 View Post
    Feel free to exchange email addresses and continue your argument over market share and sales numbers there. This has absolutely nothing to do with the thread topic: iOS7 rated top user experience by users. Would have been curious to see WebOS there
    I completely agree!

    So back on topic. The first thing I noticed from the the register was the following: in the first paragraph they say 'On the heels of the release of Apple's iOS 7, the researchers at Pfeiffer Consulting – a firm whose tagline is "Quantifying the Intangible" – sought to answer one simple question: "How good is it really?"'

    So when you go to Pfeiffer Consulting's website you find that among their clients they name 'Apple' (also HP by the way...). While I'm not claiming that the results of their 'analysis' was biased to please one of their clients, it does throw a bit of a shadow on the analysis.

    Personally I also feel that their concept of cognitive load (http://pfeifferreport.com/TabletUX_c...ramework_1.pdf) is extremely biased, and largely incorrect (because they focus on the amount of design-interfaces rather than clarity of action; I didn't have time to completely go through the PDF though, so I will probably have missed some core concepts). I've used webOS on my Touchpad, iOS 6 on an ipad 2, and a Samsung Galaxy Note 10'' (all including installation and first use). Only the Touchpad is mine, and I loved webOS beforehand, so it is difficult to remember the 'first use' feeling (also a core-concept in the analysis according Pfeiffer). But the first use on the other two devices I do remember, and the galaxy note was much easier to use (and set up) the first time that the iPad.

    The reason for this is, because many option on iOS are 'hidden' (e.g. universal search, as opposed to webOS's justType). Even if you know about them, they are not intuitive and easy to find (on first use without reading the manual!). On the Note this also occurred at times, but much less than on iOS. Now, I consider webOS superior to either OS in terms of 'flow'; but that's besides the point of the original post.

    So all I can say is this: in my opinion the analysis was extremely biased towards an 'ideal device' (as they describe it in their conceptual framework) that subjectively favors Apple's (flawed) design. This conclusion I base on my own first-use experience as they claim one should. Others (whether fan of an OS or not) will probably disagree, since the first-use experience is different for everyone. And it also depends on where you're coming from and what you are used to (in my case my Touchpad, my Palm Tungsten T3, and my Windows computer).
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