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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    "Apple" doesn't make anything. They design their phones but their phones are made in China by the same workers that make the cheapo Android phones. They even share components since China doesn't have good patent laws. I read a story a while back about the actual cost to manufacture an iPhone and an iPad. It was way under $200. The iPhone was cheaper to make than most other phones. Apple was praised (and rightly so) because they made higher profit margins than most other companies. Their stuff is cheaper to make than their competitors but after they sprinkle some fairy dust on it and add the magical Apple logo to the back, they have legions of rabid fans believing the hype that the extra money they pay for the device (for the iPad, carriers foot the bill for the iPhone) somehow makes it better.

    From the Verge iPhone 5s review…

    Even a year on, it’s one of the best smartphone designs ever — at once svelte and sturdy, machinelike and comfortable. Its only real rival is the*HTC One, itself exquisitely made
    So, I think it's more than some fairy dust and the magical Apple logo. And if it were so cheap to do, then Samsung's smartphones would all be made out of aluminum. Interesting that is the one thing Samsung didn't copy from Apple. Must be because they didn't want to make their phones cheaper, right?
    Last edited by nusome4; 09/28/2013 at 06:12 AM.
  2. #22  
    As for the iPhone not having NFC. Looks like they came up with a different solution, iBeacons.

    iOS 7's iBeacons could solve indoor mapping, make shopping better, and kill NFC | The Verge

    And MLB has been working with Apple on using iBeacons since February this year.

    MLB to use iOS 7's iBeacons for customized stadium experiences | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

    MLB to use iOS 7's iBeacon for pointing out sights (and seats) in stadiums
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    #23  
    Funny thing is that my wife is having the same issue I used to have on my Pre phones. On the Touchpad you pull down and release the cards to fully shut them down. Doing that does nothing on the phones.
    Palm III->Palm IV->Palm V->M130->Tungsten->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 700->Palm Pre Plus->FrankenPre 2->Pre 3 & TouchPad
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by nusome4 View Post
    And if it were so cheap to do, then Samsung's smartphones would all be made out of aluminum.....
    Wow, aluminum? It's so valuable and such high quality that we use it as a container for soft drinks and to wrap meat in. I guess a can of soda is worth more than a litter of orange juice, since orange juice is normally contained in plastic or paper. We should all buy sodas and no other drinks since they are incased in such high quality, high priced material. All other drinks are unworthy!
  5. #25  
    As for the iPhone not having NFC. Looks like they came up with a different solution, iBeacons.

    iOS 7's iBeacons could solve indoor mapping, make shopping better, and kill NFC | The Verge

    And MLB has been working with Apple on using iBeacons since February this year.

    MLB to use iOS 7's iBeacons for customized stadium experiences | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

    MLB to use iOS 7's iBeacon for pointing out sights (and seats) in stadiums
    Also iBeacons has a lot of resemblance to TTS. OK it has more features but it's really similar since both use BlueTooth as well.


    -- Sent from my TouchPad using Communities
    HP Veer (daily driver), HP Pre 3, HP Touchpad Proper 4G/LTE (Sierra MC7710), HP Touchpad 32GB WiFi, Palm Pre 2
  6. #26  
    Thanks for saving me from having to write my own rant. It seems you and I share the same sentiments towards Apple (the company, ifans, etc). And I now have a GS4 and Touchwiz isn't perfect and after hearing all the badd things about it, it ain't bad actually (the bloatware can go however). It's just amazing how easy webOS was to use from version 1... Apple could have done the upswipe from the bottom of screen for the card view instead of the clunky double-press of home button. Also I can't understand why to this day, Android recent apps view isn't easier to bring up like the upswipe on webOS. C'mon Matias!

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    There's nothing worse than tech "reporters" writing biased stories to support their platform of choice. IOS7 has been out for about a week now and that was enough time for users to use both and produce an accurate poll? I since some advertisement fluff here for iOS7. I'm definitely not a big fan of TouchWiz simply because the user experience is inconsistent when using non-Samsung apps, but give me a break on the Apple worship already. They (Apple) don't innovate anymore. IOS7 is just a crappy rip off of webOS, Android, and Windows Phone. I when I say crappy, I do mean CRAPPY. I had to welcome the iOS users in my office to the year 2011. The "innovation" in iOS7 is two years behind everyone else. If Apple continues to work at this pace maybe we can welcome them to 2013 in about a year and a half.

    --vent-- What I hate most about some Apple users is how completely dumb and arrogant they are. Some of the guys in my office had the nerve to bad mouth Samsung products. That is until I told them that Samsung makes the processor, screen, and some of the other parts of the iPhone. They were shocked and told me it wasn't true until we Googled it. I was told that Samsung made plastic products until I mentioned that the 5c was made out of plastic. One guy was going on and on about "card view" in iOS7 and how it was the best thing he's seen. He even said that Android didn't have that, until I should him recent app view. Then he said the cards were too small and I can't make them bigger on my tablet, so I booted into webOS. After showing him large cards in webOS that are live, can be moved around, stacked, and sling-shot off the screen, he walk away embarrased. I also mentioned that this was on an OS that had been around since 2009. They bragged about how Apple sold 9 million iPhones (5s and 5c combined) in a few days but got upset when I told them that Samsung sold over 100 million smart phones last year (I was wrong, it was really 205 million smartphones out of the 384.6 million phones Samsung sold total. Apple sold 130 million). This was all prompted by a news story on TV about the iPhone and iOS that ended, to their dispare, by saying that Android controlled 80% of the world wide smartphone market and it would be hard for Apple to catch up. Arrogant, dumb, and egg on face all at the same time --end vent--

    edit: BTW, I had to show the guy how to activate card view in iOS7 and explain to him some of the features about the OS that he was going on and on about being the best ever. It was the best ever yet he didn't even know how to use it or what new features were added? I don't think that, as an overall group, iOS users are trustworthy, experienced, and unbiased enough to participate in an OS comparison.
  7. #27  
    So the guys in my office (all iPad users) have conceded that Samsung kicks the snot out of Apple when it comes to selling phones. So they start into how Apple is #1 on tablets. Just then a story pops up on the news channel in our office on how Android has passed Apple on tablets also. Perfect timing! You can't make this stuff up. God as a great sense of humor!

    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    So the guys in my office (all iPad users) have conceded that Samsung kicks the snot out of Apple when it comes to selling phones. So they start into how Apple is #1 on tablets. Just then a story pops up on the news channel in our office on how Android has passed Apple on tablets also. Perfect timing! You can't make this stuff up. God as a great sense of humor!

    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
    You seem to be making this up.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    I'd love to see someone put an item-by-item comparison (screenshot/chart) between iOS7 and webOS to see what Apple was missing for the past 4 years. Siri (voice command) is the only thing webOS didn't already have for software.
    That and almost a million apps and a few hundred million users.
  10. #30  
    For what it's worth, Apple had released the 3rd generation iPhone when WebOS debuted. The 3Gs is supported to run iOS6.

    A huge fail with WebOS was the lack of software updates.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by rnld View Post
    You seem to be making this up.
    No, this popped up on NBC News while we were talking about the iPad yesterday:

    Android overtakes iPad in tablet race - NBC News.com

    More links on it:

    Android overtakes Apple's iPad in tablet marketshare, approaches in revenue earned

    iPad Now Being Overtaken by Android Tablets | WebProNews

    I get flack everyday because I'm the only person in the office who doesn't own an iPad. I always have my TouchPad out listening to music while doing my reports. All the guys in the office think its a Galaxy Tab (I'm tired of explaining that it is not) because they only know Apple and Samsung. Makes for some good fun arguments to pass the time away until we can finally go home. The conversations have really got interesting since the release of the iPhone 5c, 5s, and iOS 7.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    No, this popped up on NBC News while we were talking about the iPad yesterday:

    Android overtakes iPad in tablet race - NBC News.com

    More links on it:

    Android overtakes Apple's iPad in tablet marketshare, approaches in revenue earned

    iPad Now Being Overtaken by Android Tablets | WebProNews

    I get flack everyday because I'm the only person in the office who doesn't own an iPad. I always have my TouchPad out listening to music while doing my reports. All the guys in the office think its a Galaxy Tab (I'm tired of explaining that it is not) because they only know Apple and Samsung. Makes for some good fun arguments to pass the time away until we can finally go home. The conversations have really got interesting since the release of the iPhone 5c, 5s, and iOS 7.

    From this article

    Android overtakes Apple's iPad in tablet marketshare, approaches in revenue earned

    ABI's most recent figures reflect tablet shipments, and therefore do not necessarily show an accurate representation of the number of tablets bought and in the hands of consumers. Cook has previously expressed skepticism on the reliability of such figures, pointing to other studies showing the iPad with a massive usage lead over other devices.
    So, they build a bunch of tablets and ship them to warehouses where they will set and collect dust until they are destroyed and/or liquidated for pennies on the dollar. Or, they sell them to a retailer. If the retailer can't sell them to consumers they ship them back to the manufacturer as sell-backs. Wouldn't it be great if the sell-back of these Android tablets/smart phones were reported. But, that information doesn't make for great headlines.

    Meanwhile,

    mobile phone market share

    For all countries in the world for mobile/tablet web browsing it's Android at 28% and iOS at 55%.

    So, you can take two things from that...

    1. People are buying a lot of Android tablets/smart phones and are using them for everything but surfing the internet.

    Or

    2. These Android manufacturers are shipping a lot of tablets/smart phones to warehouses/retailers and they just set there collecting dust.

    So, that 80% Android smart phone market share you stated the other day is probably the same thing. A bunch of Android phones setting in a warehouse/retailer.

    Or, you can spin it as to why you think iOS is used almost twice as much as Android devices when it comes to surfing the internet. When, supposedly, Android has a larger market share than Apple.

    So, a bunch of useless news articles with no context to support what they reported.

    Apple has nothing to worry about.

    .
    Last edited by nusome4; 09/29/2013 at 07:45 AM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by nusome4 View Post
    From this article

    Android overtakes Apple's iPad in tablet marketshare, approaches in revenue earned



    So, they build a bunch of tablets and ship them to warehouses where they will set and collect dust until they are destroyed and/or liquidated for pennies on the dollar. Or, they sell them to a retailer. If the retailer can't sell them to consumers they ship them back to the manufacturer as sell-backs. Wouldn't it be great if the sell-back of these Android tablets/smart phones were reported. But, that information doesn't make for great headlines.

    Meanwhile,

    mobile phone market share

    For all countries in the world for mobile/tablet web browsing it's Android at 28% and iOS at 55%.

    So, you can take two things from that...

    1. People are buying a lot of Android tablets/smart phones and are using them for everything but surfing the internet.

    Or

    2. These Android manufacturers are shipping a lot of tablets/smart phones to warehouses/retailers and they just set there collecting dust.

    So, that 80% Android smart phone market share you stated the other day is probably the same thing. A bunch of Android phones setting in a warehouse/retailer.

    Or, you can spin it as to why you think iOS is used almost twice as much as Android devices when it comes to surfing the internet. When, supposedly, Android has a larger market share than Apple.

    So, a bunch of useless news articles with no context to support what they reported.

    Apple has nothing to worry about.

    .
    I think Apple should worry. I don't know how old you are, but I'm old to remember the creation, rise, fall, and rebirth of Apple. The first computer I used was an Apple IIc. Apple was king of the personal computer in the 80s. The Intel clones took over in the 90s and Apple was knocked down to 4% market share. Right now Apple only has 10% market share in PCs, even with their resurgence. They also like to count iPad numbers, shipped, sold, or otherwise in their numbers for PCs. Android is doing to Apple now what Windows did to them in the 90s. It's wierd that then and now, Steve Jobs was not in the picture.

    Web surfing and sales numbers are totally different. Let's not go there. User agents can be spoof. Mine are all set to iPad (on my phone and on my TouchPad).
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think Apple should worry. I don't know how old you are, but I'm old to remember the creation, rise, fall, and rebirth of Apple. The first computer I used was an Apple IIc. Apple was king of the personal computer in the 80s. The Intel clones took over in the 90s and Apple was knocked down to 4% market share. Right now Apple only has 10% market share in PCs, even with their resurgence. They also like to count iPad numbers, shipped, sold, or otherwise in their numbers for PCs. Android is doing to Apple now what Windows did to them in the 90s. It's wierd that then and now, Steve Jobs was not in the picture.

    Web surfing and sales numbers are totally different. Let's not go there. User agents can be spoof. Mine are all set to iPad (on my phone and on my TouchPad).

    You are, again, forgetting or just glossing over the fact that Apple doesn't compete in the cheap PC market.

    With the exception of the Mac Mini, every computer Apple sells is $999 and above. In that market segment that Apple competes in they own 90% of the market for computers that cost $999. Again, they chose not to sell cheaper computers or license their OS to the clone manufacturers.

    I was around in the 80s. The computer market back then is totally different back then compared to today.

    Apple does not include their iPad numbers in their Mac numbers. That's a lie. There is no proof that Android is doing anything negative to Apple. Apple is probably the only company that announces every quarter how many products they sell. Samsung and most other manufacturers don't do that.

    Only info that we get is what some analyst at some firms takes an uneducated guess at. Or Google says they are activating "x" amount of devices per day. Yeah, that's real accurate isn't it?

    There is no proof of the actual Android market until all Android manufacturers start announcing how many of their products are sold to actual consumers every quarter. But, that's not going to happen because it's not in their best interest to do so.

    Even Amazon has never announced how many Kindles they have sold.

    Let's see, you don't trust browser statistics because the agents can be spoofed. But, you believe what some analyst says. They even tell us that it's just shipped numbers and you still think Android is taking over. We don't know if the Android market share is from shipped to a warehouse or to actual consumers. If the market share includes shipped to retailers we don't know how many were returned to the manufacturer unsold. All this uncertainty in the Android market share numbers that you keep talking about and you blindly believe it. That data can be twisted in any way to suit an analysts or companies needs. But because a browser agent can be spoofed you can't believe it.

    So, you can believe market share sales data about Android because it's higher than Apple. Although, actual proof is all over the map. BUT, because there is data that says more people browse on Apple devices than Android you can't believe it because it can be spoofed. You, sir, are unbelievable. LOL!

    But, since we are talking about Android and iOS, there is no reason for an Android user to spoof the iOS browser agent. Both are the two dominant mobile OSes. Any mobile website is going to make sure their site looks fine on either iOS or Android. And even if that were going on with Android users spoofing iOS for a reason only you must know because I can't think of one. That many Android users are not doing that to where iOS is used to browse the web at almost twice Android. But, thanks for the laugh and try again.
    .
    Last edited by nusome4; 09/29/2013 at 03:19 PM.
  15. #35  
    Here's a big difference - Android is used on many tablets, including the cheap Chinese crap.

    iOS is used only on the Apple iPad, so leaving out manufacturers is silly.

    The post that started these responses was about the Samsung S4.
  16. #36  
    You are, again, forgetting or just glossing over the fact that Apple doesn't compete in the cheap PC market.

    With the exception of the Mac Mini, every computer Apple sells is $999 and above. In that market segment that Apple competes in they own 90% of the market for computers that cost $999. Again, they chose not to sell cheaper computers or license their OS to the clone manufacturers.

    I was around in the 80s. The computer market back then is totally different back then compared to today.

    Apple does not include their iPad numbers in their Mac numbers. That's a lie. There is no proof that Android is doing anything negative to Apple. Apple is probably the only company that announces every quarter how many products they sell. Samsung and most other manufacturers don't do that.

    Only info that we get is what some analyst at some firms takes an uneducated guess at. Or Google says they are activating "x" amount of devices per day. Yeah, that's real accurate isn't it?

    There is no proof of the actual Android market until all Android manufacturers start announcing how many of their products are sold to actual consumers every quarter. But, that's not going to happen because it's not in their best interest to do so.

    Even Amazon has never announced how many Kindles they have sold.

    Let's see, you don't trust browser statistics because the agents can be spoofed. But, you believe what some analyst says. They even tell us that it's just shipped numbers and you still think Android is taking over. We don't know if the Android market share is from shipped to a warehouse or to actual consumers. If the market share includes shipped to retailers we don't know how many were returned to the manufacturer unsold. All this uncertainty in the Android market share numbers that you keep talking about and you blindly believe it. That data can be twisted in any way to suit an analysts or companies needs. But because a browser agent can be spoofed you can't believe it.

    So, you can believe market share sales data about Android because it's higher than Apple. Although, actual proof is all over the map. BUT, because there is data that says more people browse on Apple devices than Android you can't believe it because it can be spoofed. You, sir, are unbelievable. LOL!

    But, since we are talking about Android and iOS, there is no reason for an Android user to spoof the iOS browser agent. Both are the two dominant mobile OSes. Any mobile website is going to make sure their site looks fine on either iOS or Android. And even if that were going on with Android users spoofing iOS for a reason only you must know because I can't think of one. That many Android users are not doing that to where iOS is used to browse the web at almost twice Android. But, thanks for the laugh and try again.
    .
    I won't comment on everything you wrote because you are just going around in circles. No one breaks down OS market share numbers between cheap and high end devices. OS market share is OS market share. The dominant OS is Android which is on four times as many devices as iOS, cheap or not. One of the articles stated that Android has closed the revenue gap with Apple (iOS) also, so chew on that for a while and see how it tastes. I see you tend to believe data when it suits Apple (or comes from Apple like they are somehow not biased). Like your browser data which means absolutely nothing when comparing OS market share and can be manipulated by simply changing the user agent in the browser. Apple can continue to sell cheap (to produce) iPads and iPhones at high end prices to people like you and become a niche player once again, just like they did in the 90s. I'm pretty sure you will go along with them for the ride, extolling them as the market leader while everyone else you see is using an Android device (whether they are surfing the web or not). At least you can say you paid top dollar for a shiny device made out of about 50 cents worth of recycled aluminum cans and Samsung components by Chinese workers who are so mistreated that they commit suicide. It might somehow make you feel superior to the lowly Android users who aren't zealots or fashion hogs.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  17. #37  
    Here's a big difference - Android is used on many tablets, including the cheap Chinese crap.

    iOS is used only on the Apple iPad, so leaving out manufacturers is silly.

    The post that started these responses was about the Samsung S4.
    IOS is only used on the iPad because Apple doesn't licence it out to other manufacturers. Android is licenced out simply because Google makes their revenue through advertisements and services (not hardware) and want their OS on as many devices as possible. The US market is saturated right now. Guess which markets are wide open and provide the opportunity for growth? Emerging markets like China and India. So that cheap Chinese crap adds to Android's market share and provides Google with a new source of revenue in an emerging market.

    Quick history lesson for you, one of the most powerful companies in the world was Standard Oil. The company made its money and obtained its power by pricing its competitors out of the market. They didn't charge a premium for their oil. They charge less than their competitors did. They sold more oil and their competitors went bankrupt. It makes little since for a company to price their products so high that they only grab a small amount of market share. Apple has trapped themselves into a situation where they have to protect the brand. That is a losing situation. Ask Ferrari, Mercedes, and BMW. Each are smaller companies with less revenue than Toyota, GM, and Ford. Each sell low volumes of high end cars to the small market that can afford them. Each have attempted to break into the low end, higher volume market but can't seem to do so because it will damage their brand.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)
  18. #38  
    I saw this today and thought of this thread.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/270431852...d=940325739001

    Sent from my HTC6990LVW using Board Express
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I won't comment on everything you wrote because you are just going around in circles. No one breaks down OS market share numbers between cheap and high end devices. OS market share is OS market share. The dominant OS is Android which is on four times as many devices as iOS, cheap or not. One of the articles stated that Android has closed the revenue gap with Apple (iOS) also, so chew on that for a while and see how it tastes. I see you tend to believe data when it suits Apple (or comes from Apple like they are somehow not biased). Like your browser data which means absolutely nothing when comparing OS market share and can be manipulated by simply changing the user agent in the browser. Apple can continue to sell cheap (to produce) iPads and iPhones at high end prices to people like you and become a niche player once again, just like they did in the 90s. I'm pretty sure you will go along with them for the ride, extolling them as the market leader while everyone else you see is using an Android device (whether they are surfing the web or not). At least you can say you paid top dollar for a shiny device made out of about 50 cents worth of recycled aluminum cans and Samsung components by Chinese workers who are so mistreated that they commit suicide. It might somehow make you feel superior to the lowly Android users who aren't zealots or fashion hogs.


    ---Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities (a great webOS app!)

    That would be you going around in circles posting inaccurate info which you have been called out on more than a few times.

    I don't tend to believe data when it favors Apple. I just gave you an example of a data point for Android and a data point for iOS and showed you they don't add up. You were the one thinking that everyone is spoofing a browser agent. Which is a bunch of made up crap by YOU.

    There is too much fragmentation in Android for it to be dominant. There is even talk of Google washing it's hands of Android and moving to Chrome. If it's so dominant, why would they be thinking of doing that?

    You want to know why there is talk of that? Because Google is doing all the work and getting very little back in return. Amazon has forked Android and uses it for their devices and Google is mostly cut out of it. In Samsung's last event, they worked very hard to leave Google out of their event.

    It is said that Google makes more money from iOS users than from Android users. And you think Android is dominant?

    Dominance is the ecosystem that revolves around an OS and iOS beats Android hands down. There is no comparison.

    All you're focusing on is raw numbers and that's not how the world operates. Lot's of companies in other industries have been around for decades in their niche and prosper and don't care that someone cheaper sells more stuff than them.

    That will be Apple. Extremely successful in their niche taking the most profits while everyone else fights over scraps. And iOS will continue to get the best apps, the huge accessory market, the dock connector installed everywhere, awesome in car factory audio hookups, etc. That's because iOS users typically spend more money vs Android users.

    And furthermore, I don't put down Android users. Or, anyone else for that matter. I just called you out on stuff that is simply not true or taken out of context. Or, some random nugget of meaningless data. And you do that A LOT.
  20. #40  
    Comparing Android as a whole to the iPad is like comparing Windows to Apple computers.

    The real comparison is which company makes a tablet that sells as well as the iPad?

    FYI - I do not have an iPad or iPhone.
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