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  1. #21  
    after playing ICS for 2 months on my XPeria.

    Believe me, I get back to the simplicity and fast responsive of webOS stack system.
    Instead of beautifull animation ... Still, ICS does not increase my productivity over webOS
  2. gregp's Avatar
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       #22  
    Perhaps surprisingly, the jury is still out with me. I'm back home now and switched my SIM back into the Pre 3. Aahhhhhhh. That was a sigh of satisfaction. I can't believe ICS firstly can't sync to Yahoo calendar, big problem there, but unless I'm stupid (which is always on the cards ) the calendar app is WOEFUL! As far as I can tell all appointments for all calendars come up in black, and there's no way to make different colours for different calendars. Week view is the only view you can have. Exchange and Google are the only calendar options but having set up Exchange it doesn't appear in the accounts list! The only one in there (my gmail one), the 'options' I have are whether or not to sync it, and the same for any public holiday / anniversaries linked to it. That's it. Either that or all my hunting around failed to find the rest of the options, in which case they're so deeply hidden the problem simply morphs into a major issue with the UI. Compare that to the calendar app on webOS and well... enough said. I know there are other calendar apps but I can't be bothered downloading a thousand apps to work out which one does what webOS already does.

    So my simplistic take on the two devices now is this:

    " As an all-round smart device the Nexus with ICS is better. As a phone with some 3G capabilities the Pre 3 is better if you want all the niceities of webOS and the Pre form factor."

    * As a smartphone all-round performer the Nexus with ICS is better. Fancy full-featured GPS navigation, zillions of apps (with ads to annoy you), fast 3G, compatibility with lots of different services (except calendar services :rolleyes , great camera, panorama camera option, big screen for lots of games / web browsing / video watching etc.
    * If you can put up with a phone that can in a lesser way run 3G stuff too - email, basic apps and back-up web browsing and mapping (i.e. a less-smart smartphone and don't need to run a full online life on it), the Pre 3 is nicer to use. OS is still nicer to use, easy to move around, switch apps and so on. Physically a more sensible size, thicker so easier to pick up, physical keyboard still can't be beat, gesture area, ringer mute switch. It can do most of the common 3G / fancy gear the Nexus does but it's slower and not as pleasing to the eye. But if that's not what you mainly need your phone for then the Pre 3 may still be the best option. Of course once the UMTS baseband crash bug is fixed (if it ever is...) it'll score a bit higher.

    Will see what next week brings!
    Last edited by gregp; 07/03/2012 at 07:16 AM.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregp View Post
    Perhaps surprisingly, the jury is still out with me. I'm back home now and switched my SIM back into the Pre 3. Aahhhhhhh. That was a sigh of satisfaction. I can't believe ICS firstly can't sync to Yahoo calendar, big problem there, but unless I'm stupid (which is always on the cards ) the calendar app is WOEFUL! As far as I can tell all appointments for all calendars come up in black, and there's no way to make different colours for different calendars. Week view is the only view you can have. Exchange and Google are the only calendar options but having set up Exchange it doesn't appear in the accounts list! The only one in there (my gmail one), the 'options' I have are whether or not to sync it, and the same for any public holiday / anniversaries linked to it. That's it. Either that or all my hunting around failed to find the rest of the options, in which case they're so deeply hidden the problem simply morphs into a major issue with the UI. Compare that to the calendar app on webOS and well... enough said. I know there are other calendar apps but I can't be bothered downloading a thousand apps to work out which one does what webOS already does.

    So my simplistic take on the two devices now is this:

    " As an all-round smart device the Nexus with ICS is better. As a phone with some 3G capabilities the Pre 3 is better if you want all the niceities of webOS and the Pre form factor."

    * As a smartphone all-round performer the Nexus with ICS is better. Fancy full-featured GPS navigation, zillions of apps (with ads to annoy you), fast 3G, compatibility with lots of different services (except calendar services :rolleyes , great camera, panorama camera option, big screen for lots of games / web browsing / video watching etc.
    * If you can put up with a phone that can in a lesser way run 3G stuff too - email, basic apps and back-up web browsing and mapping (i.e. a less-smart smartphone and don't need to run a full online life on it), the Pre 3 is nicer to use. OS is still nicer to use, easy to move around, switch apps and so on. Physically a more sensible size, thicker so easier to pick up, physical keyboard still can't be beat, gesture area, ringer mute switch. It can do most of the common 3G / fancy gear the Nexus does but it's slower and not as pleasing to the eye. But if that's not what you mainly need your phone for then the Pre 3 may still be the best option. Of course once the UMTS baseband crash bug is fixed (if it ever is...) it'll score a bit higher.

    Will see what next week brings!
    I agree on most of your findings. I replaced my aging Pre with an EVO 3D several months ago. Beautiful screen (that easily cracks), excellent cameras, thin and sexy, thousands of apps. Problem is my productivity dropped. That nice hardware and all those apps are saddled with a crappy, schizophrenic OS. The hardware and OS don't seem to be designed with work in mind. I went back to the 3 year old Pre (with the 2.1 upgrade). My wife was able to get two "new" Pres from a coworker.

    WebOS is designed to get my work done quicker. To highlight my point, I received an email from work while reading your post in the Forums app on my Pre. The notification popped up on the bottom of the screen. I tapped the notification and it took me to the email. It was only two sentences. I read it, then swipped the email off the screen. I was returned to the forums app and back to reading your post. Took about 10 seconds and two quick movements (tap to bring up email, swipe to dismiss email app). I can't do that on the EVO 3D "out of the box" or even with a little tweaking. On the EVO I would have to pull down the shade, tap the email notification, read the email, then hold down the home key, and tap "forums" app icon to return. If I hit the back button it would take me to the in box instead of back to the app I was just in. Doing multiple things on webOS phones is quick, easy, and unobtrusive. Can't say that for Android or even iOS phones.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  4. #24  
    Strange how I don't hear much mention of stacks in these forums. To me its one of the greatest ideas ever, especially for email with sconix advanced patches.

    Just to open an email link an have it grouped with the message, and then to have the list view right there, its just the heights of productivity.

    And the ability to make my own stacks and roll like that all day if I want. I'm telling you, not leaving webos anytime soon
  5. #25  
    I could take stacks or leave them. I'm not overly organized in general, so they are just there.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Grabber5.0 View Post
    I could take stacks or leave them. I'm not overly organized in general, so they are just there.
    I'd take a short stack, buttermilk with blueberries and real maple syrup if I could get it....

    Oh, regarding stacks in webOS...I just ordered a Pre2 from that great Daily Deals offer last Saturday...hopefully soon I can enjoy these virtual stacks you speak of...without the stickiness of maple syrup.
    Sent from my slowly diminishing intellect

    I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

    Grabber5.0 likes this.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Strange how I don't hear much mention of stacks in these forums. To me its one of the greatest ideas ever, especially for email with sconix advanced patches.
    I think part of it is most of us are used to cards, so the stacks are a simple extension of that, but nothing to insane from the ease of use we are already used to.

    Also for me, they are just there, I don't think about em or talk about em because they are there when I need em, and unobtrusive when I don't need em.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Strange how I don't hear much mention of stacks in these forums. To me its one of the greatest ideas ever, especially for email with sconix advanced patches.

    Just to open an email link an have it grouped with the message, and then to have the list view right there, its just the heights of productivity.

    And the ability to make my own stacks and roll like that all day if I want. I'm telling you, not leaving webos anytime soon
    Stacks weren't available for webOS 1.x and since some of the folks here bailed after that it is hard to speak about something you never had. I remember you mentioning how you did not like the way the TouchPad stacked cards as compared to the phones and I was scratching my head. Since I updated my Pre to webOS 2.x I fully understand what you were talking about. Stacks is good on the TouchPad but excellent on phones with webOS 2.x. The look is just right and the productivity value is unparalleled by/on any other mobile OS.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    I think part of it is most of us are used to cards, so the stacks are a simple extension of that, but nothing to insane from the ease of use we are already used to.

    Also for me, they are just there, I don't think about em or talk about em because they are there when I need em, and unobtrusive when I don't need em.
    I wholeheartedly agree.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  10. #30  
    Oh the other thing about stacks I don't "use" them that often. Like I said they are just there, but I have been an advanced gesture user since we first got our Pres, so I rarely go to card view to switch cards.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Oh the other thing about stacks I don't "use" them that often. Like I said they are just there, but I have been an advanced gesture user since we first got our Pres, so I rarely go to card view to switch cards.
    I use advanced gestures sometimes, but I find that its best for when one has no more than two or three cards open, other than it would take too long and sometimes its blind trial and error unless you know where the things are, can go the wrong way sometimes.

    Also I have come to a point where I hate going back. So if I ever have the chance to open in a new card I always do that. For example if its a google search I want the search results and pages I opened in a stack, if not going back drives me crazy..

    Not only does it organise stuff to make my work easier, it also cuts down on the scrolling, especially now that we don't have the mini-cards anymore to give us a view of the "big picture". So that at times when I have quite a few apps open and don't want close them, I just make a stack or two, problem solved.

    I always thought that developers don't take advantage of what webos can do with the stacks and now reading these post it seems like a lot of users don't either since some say its just some thing that's there and never use them. For me I wish my laptop had stacks
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    I always thought that developers don't take advantage of what webos can do with the stacks and now reading these post it seems like a lot of users don't either since some say its just some thing that's there and never use them. For me I wish my laptop had stacks
    From what I read in one of the CE threads it seems there was a bug in 3.x (I am guessing) that was launching cards in a separate stack even if it was supposed to stay stacked. This may be part of the reason for the various implementations of stacks by developers.

    It was probably a low priority fix at launch last yeah and then leo pulled out the rug, making it even more low priority.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  13. gregp's Avatar
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       #33  
    So I've spent the last week back on the Pre 3 and the Galaxy Nexus has sat there for wifi use and games (100 floors is fascinating, and super stickman golf is addictive too!).

    This week's experiences really lent weight to my simplistic take on these two devices:

    " As an all-round smart device the Nexus with ICS is better. As a phone with some 3G capabilities the Pre 3 is better if you want all the niceities of webOS and the Pre form factor."

    The Pre 3 was great for the week's use of calls, reading / replying to emails, switching apps quickly, and generally having a natural intuitive feeling to productive work. These are the times I missed the Nexus:
    * Worst was driving to a new destination and using the Pre 3's GPS. My goodness what a dog! This is Google maps - slow panning and loading new maps even with it on 3G. Just as well I pulled over - the phone froze and didn't respond to swiping, power button, holding power button, hitting the thing with my hand out of frustration, nothing worked for about 30 seconds. Eventually the commands started to be acknowledged but it was just atrocious, no way in the world you could use that as a real-life navigation system, you'd end up in Timbuctoo.
    * Opening dropbox documents was more of a pain than on Android (slow 2G connection that sometimes timed out)
    * General UI speed - commented earlier on that, a bit sluggish.

    I'll probably switch back to the Nexus this week for a week in the office and see how I find it.
  14. #34  
    A pre3 with discontinued support from google and hp is not gonna compete with the latest and greatest android phone in a lot of areas.

    Seems like you gonna have to decide which phone does the things you do the most the best and call it a day
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       #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    A pre3 with discontinued support from google and hp is not gonna compete with the latest and greatest android phone in a lot of areas.
    Absolutely and I mentioned as much in my OP. But that doesn't fuss me most of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by laingman View Post
    Seems like you gonna have to decide which phone does the things you do the most the best and call it a day
    Yeah that's why I really embarked on this whole exercise. For most of what I do day to day the Pre 3 is coming up as the preferred option but when I step outside the ordinary it's interesting to see how well (or otherwise) the Pre 3 holds up.

    I'm not in too much of a hurry to make up my mind and I'll swap back and forth for a while I expect until I decide which way to rest. Reviews only tell you so much and I asked a while back for this sort of hands-on experience in the hope it could be an immediate change, but as not many people had that experience I'm doing it myself and posting what I find. Hopefully someone else finds it useful.

    Tomorrow is Nexus day
  16. #36  
    What has been your browsing experience between the two? To me webos with the ability to open links in new cards is pretty nice, but the browser also drives me crazy sometimes with the fonts being too small on some websites
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    #37  
    Thanks for the post, I couldn't agree more.
    I just got a Samsung Galaxy Storm III on Friday, and like it.
    Still trying to swipe to delete things though

    BTW, I thought I saw an app to change the LED, but it isn't in the list that I've been keeping of installs.
    Last edited by jac-3; 07/09/2012 at 02:46 PM. Reason: said reply, meant to say post
  18. gregp's Avatar
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       #38  
    The Nexus' browser is quicker but switching to a new tab is a bit harder. 'Cards view' on the Nexus (ICS) is better than webOS' because you have more apps visible on the screen (3-4) so you can just tap the one you want to go to if it was recent rather than swiping.

    As I said earlier the general performance of the Nexus is (unsurprisingly) better as it's newer hardware, but the improved efficiency of webOS does make up for some of that, particularly with notifications and multitasking. I've found both considerably better than on the Nexus.

    A couple of updates on some of my earlier comments:

    * Calendar does in fact have different views (day, week, month, agenda), I eventually found that by clicking on the date you pull down a menu that lets you change the view. Not as intuitive as a button on the screen that does it in one action but it's there.
    * I still can't work out any way of changing the colours of the different calendars so it's all black on white. Horrible. Just horrible, and so un-useful compared to webOS.

    * Privacy: A couple of HUUGE negatives here in my book:
    1) The YouTube app decided it wanted to update itself, and one of the new privacy changes was that I would be required to allow the camera to capture whatever it was seeing at any time with no notice and I couldn't change this. HUH? So to install YouTube you're going to be allowed to film me with the front-facing camera at random? NO. WAY. So I didn't install that update.
    2) I set up my work Exchange account on the Nexus, well I tried to, and when I got to the end it told me that I needed to enable some device administrator settings that, among other things, would allow my device and all its contents to be wiped with no warning! Pardon me? My device, and you want to wipe it when you bally well feel like it? I guess this is to protect the server if the phone is stolen as it also listed things like monitoring the number of attempts to unlock the phone and so on, but even so... on my Pre 3 I can configure Exchange without all that. I realise that's an Exchange account administrator-set thing (probably) and potentially it could change with time on webOS too, but for now that's the way it is which is on what I'm making my decisions.

    The privacy point almost does it for me. I'm simply not prepared to allow such control over my device, and I'm going to get sick of having to keep on dismissing these update notifications to the YouTube app. So I'm back onto the Pre 3 now, not sure for how long but if I can't get access to my Exchange account it's going to make the Nexus pretty hard to use for work. So I may end up Pre 3 long-term, time will tell...

    I guess if I didn't care about sharing my private life with Google at its discretion or having someone else delete my files when they feel like it the Nexus would be a good option.

    Greg
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregp View Post
    * Privacy: A couple of HUUGE negatives here in my book:
    1) The YouTube app decided it wanted to update itself, and one of the new privacy changes was that I would be required to allow the camera to capture whatever it was seeing at any time with no notice and I couldn't change this. HUH? So to install YouTube you're going to be allowed to film me with the front-facing camera at random? NO. WAY. So I didn't install that update.
    The actual wording of the permission is this:

    TAKE PICTURES AND VIDEOS
    Allows the app to take pictures and videos with the camera. This allows the app at any time to collect images the camera is seeing.
    This is the standard Android warning message for the camera. It's basically telling you that the app has access to the camera so that you can use it. The YouTube app needs this so that you can take videos and upload them.

    It's not saying that the app will snoop on you at any time. Theoretically it could, but so could any app on any device that had access to the camera. I think you can be pretty certain that the YouTube app only uses the camera when you're recording a video.

    Spyke
  20. gregp's Avatar
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       #40  
    Thanks for your post. That may well be true (and I expect in practice it is, see my earlier post on the privacy issue), but it sounds scary and big-brother-in-your-face worded the way it is. No doubt there are legal reasons why not but I feel they could have achieved the same thing by saying this app uses the camera but will only access it when you initiate a command to instruct it to (e.g. taking a video).
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